Superthreads, the big debate. Read the first post or risk a ban.

Thanx 4 The Fish

So, the pro superthreaders topped the poll. - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055125684

So what type of strictures should we put on Sthreads.

Please note, this discussion is only about how superthreads, now that the forum have voted to keep them, will be administered. Any other discussion will be deleted and the poster banned until this thread closes.

Ye have a week from today to discuss, feel free to come up with ideas for rules on use of SThreads, use of the forum outside the Sthread (ie stopping people whinging that a topic should be in the superthread, perhaps posting big news outside the SThread and whatnot) and anything else SThread related.

Any moderators of this forum who participate are doing so as users of the forum (except where tidying up off topicness), there will be no "ahh well your the mod you were bound to say that" rubbish, we are as entitled to participate as soccer forum users in this debate as any other..

Thanx 4 The Fish

In my view the way that the man u fans do it was quite good, ie finishing one at the end of a season and starting a new one. Also in weather there is a superthread that is capped at about 1000 posts, once it get's that big it is closed and a new one re-opened, not sure if thsi could be worked per team that want a superthread mind.

bohsman

While I think the superthreads are a good idea I feel that if there is anything that warrants its own thread about the club in question it shouldnt immediately be moved to the superthread.

Mr Alan

Still don't understand why it can't just revert back to the way it was.

If it is to do with issues with size, then maybe they can be capped when they reach a certain number, be it 1000, 5000 or watever.

The thread can be a place to discuss everything about your club, from big important signings, to managers facial hair, depending on how the mood takes you! Thats wat was always so great about the thread, the conversational tone and the way people could also have a laugh in it.

Then large items of news can also have a thread in the main forum, dedicated to solely that subject if, we the users, feel it nescessary... eg torres to liverpool, tevez to Utd, how much none of us like Warnock etc etc.

Just my views.

_blank_

I reckon that once the Liverpool Superthread got to a certain size, there was a certain amount of mickey-waving going on - 'OOOOH LOOK AT THE SIZE OF OUR THREAD' - type of stuff.

The ManYoo thread(s) were done correctly imo.

The current one is called :

Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2007/2008

Which is fine, it will run until next May, when a new one will be started.

Alternatively, perhaps they should be started for set periods.

Say Liverpool Summer-Winter 2007 Transfer Rumours and General Discussion

This covers the Summer Transfer Window traffic, plus all other Liverpool related stuff like Robbie's Plaster, Rafa's Beard and other stuff like that.

Then a new one started for the Winter Transfer Window called

Liverpool/ManYoo/Aston Villa/Other Club Winter 2007- Summer 2008 Transfer Rumours and General Discussion

This covers the Winter Transfer Window traffic, plus all other Club related stuff like Nani's Hairdo, Rafa's Razor and other stuff like that.

Now, when a big transfer happens, say the likes of Torres, Hargreaves etc a new thread can open. It probably merits it. BUT NOT UNTIL the transfer goes through, as until it does happen, it's nothing but a rumour anyway.

Any issues that directly impact on the wider footballing world, The Tevez Saga for instance, can have their own threads.

Other, less popular, SuperThreads, such as the eL one can be run on an ad hoc basis. The current eL one has 343 posts since November. That's fine. Maybe it could be closed come the end of this season, in November, and a new one opened for the end of 2007 and 2008 seasons.

Tbh, I reckon that anyone posting in a thread whinging "should this not be in the SuperThread" should be banned for a day or something (Yes, I've done this in the past:o ). There's a 'Report Post' feature which can be used to highlight perceived problems to the mods, maybe people should use this. It will be then up to the mods as to wether or not a topic is deemed 'worthy' of it's own thread, or merged into the superthread, or closed.

There will obviously be cross conversation between the SThread and the dedicated topic threads, nothing can be done there.

_blank_

millersangel wrote:

The thread can be a place to discuss everything about your club, from big important signings, to managers facial hair, depending on how the mood takes you! Thats wat was always so great about the thread, the conversational tone and the way people could also have a laugh in it.

The very essence of the Superthreads imo.

Mr Alan

Totally disagree with that Seansouth. (some of your first post, not second one)

A rumour the size of Torres going to Anfield or Tevez to United definately deserves its own thread. Before the actual deal goes through.
Simple fact is that is when most of the discussion on the subject would take place, having it in the superthread until they sign would make following the info difficult.
The whole point of this site is for people to converse on matters that interest them, no sense in making that more difficult that it has to be.

_blank_

Yeah, fair enough.

What about this then. When a 'big' transfer looks like it has a 50/50 or even 40/60 chance of happening it has a thread of it's own. Not when The Sun reports that Wenger is thinking of bringing Beckham back to the Premier League. Extremely unlikely, but has the potential to be a big transfer.

When Torres was first linked with Liverpool, the story could have been likened to when he was linked to Man U last summer. It never happened. As the transfer looks more and more likely, then perhaps it deserves it's own thread.

Incidentally, who decides, and by what means, if a certain topic should have it's own thread.

What's to stop all of the Man U fans deciding that 'Fergie's Glasses' is a hot topic, that deserves it's own thread? Someone starting a thread, and then everyone giving their opinion. If enough people have an interest, especially non-Man U fans, then by some rationale, it should have it's own thread.

Where is the line drawn?

Mr Alan

I think that the individual threads will almost govern themselves to be honest, like they did before. . .there will always be some silly threads started and there is even now with the superthread gone, but these usually die a quick death!

I think that Torres potential move to Utd would've deserved its own thread last year, cause for a long time it did look like the deal was on, plus him not moving would've provided the perfect end to the thread!

I don't think it should be so ridgid in relation to wat gets posted, if its something silly ie, beards (it is a sweet beard though), glasses, stolen dogs etc etc the mods can move it to the general rumours/news page. But i think anything in relation to players/manager sackings etc etc that even has a bit of foundation should remain as an individual topic-if the demand deems nescessary.

Eg. I know if Liverpool are looking to beat Spurs to landing the sig of that young Rose lad, that I'd post that in the general comments thread, because the interest among non-liverpool fans and less interested liverpool fans would be zero to none.

But if there is talk of Liverpool landing a big name, Heinze, Henry, Torres, Babel etc etc, there will be enough responses to merit its own thread.

Get me?

_blank_

Oh yes, I got you the first time, I was just trying to teae out the argument, see what the thinking was.

Anyway, now the vote has decided that the superthreads will remain, I reckon the forum will go back to the exact same as it was before.

Some idiots will continue to post inane crap about facial hair in new threads, and the threads will be locked. Some, more enlightened posters, will use the superthreads for their intended purpose, and the eL will continue to be roundly ignored:p

machiavellianme

Can we not just go back to the way it was and forget this experiment ever happened? We've already lost out on a good weeks worth of topics in the Liverpool thread and it seems there is less people posting about Liverpool without our "home" thread available.

Create one superthread for every team that wants one and get a mod assigned to each one (prefferably a mod who likes that team and is reasonable). The little threads about everyday occurences can be lumped into a general thread and then all threads should fit on the front page of the soccer forum. That way the navigation complaint is nullified as people save searching through old pages just to find an appropriate thread, they just go to the team in question and post away.

Might as well leave the spurs forum where it is. That guy clearly likes debating topics in ghost town

Daemonic

I agree with Seansouth on the "mickey-waving" and while our mickey was the biggest the idea of a new thread each season is a sensible one. There is no need to have posts form a couple of years ago on a thread.
So the switch each season isn't too abrupt maybe the mods can lock the current season thread and create a new one with the last 2-3 weeks of posts imported. The conversational tone could continue without threads living on forever.

Blowfish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

In my view the way that the man u fans do it was quite good, ie finishing one at the end of a season and starting a new one. Also in weather there is a superthread that is capped at about 1000 posts, once it get's that big it is closed and a new one re-opened, not sure if thsi could be worked per team that want a superthread mind.

Agreed, although 1000 is obviously far too low a cap, the Man U one is already 1500 and the season hasn't started yet.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

astrofool

Utd threads have been started with each transfer window.

PHB

I think a new one every year is nice, only because it stimulates discussion. I don't think boards has a real issue with the size of the threads, but personally, I like to be able to look back for posts I make for stats and stuff, something I can do in the United thread, not so much in the Liverpool one, largely because I've no idea whatsoever where anything is.

What should go in a superthread and what shouldn't?
Transfer rumours and general discussion thread.
Kinda says it all.
If a new player is signed, I think a new thread should be created {I mean a first team player, not a youth player]
If somebody has a particular topic they want to discuss like, the future of Darren Gibson, let them create a thread.
If somebody has a particular debate they want to start like Who are the best 11 players from the league, let them start another thread.
Everything else goes into the general thread.

That includes any transfer rumours. I really think you can't draw a line here except in very special cases. If somebody reports so and so is signing then post a new thread, but if it's just the Sun saying so and so will be signing, it stays in the rumours thread. In some special cases a thread should be started before the signing, like say, Tevez to United, but these are special cases that everybody will realize.

What I would really want to see is a one-week ban for anybody saying, 'ffs, like, couldn't you post this in the general thread?'
I think a much better solution is if the mods think that a new thread would be useful, leave it be, and if they don't, just merge it into the general thread. It's pretty much common sense imo.

The Rooster

Personally I'd be in favour of a superthread with no limitations on the amount of posts on it.

I didnt think there was any material "mickey waving" with regard to who's thread was the biggest. The one or two that there where were insignificant.

The substance was most important.

Delighted that there will be a Liverpool super thread again either way

Raskolnikov

Banned for a week.

Read the guidelines for this thread.

~Rebel~

Raskolnikov wrote:

I find them extremely annoying. I think there should be sub-forums for the most popular teams so we can see some debate the extends beyond the Man Utd/Liverpool line-ups.

I think the debate already on the former Liverpool superthread and the current United one show much more then this. Sure if that wasn't the case id never bother posting in the Utd one, but theres banter and the topics change and stay interesting so i do.

Obviously that topic comes up from time to time depending on new signings and injuries but i think the superthreads are far from just one trick pony's.

i quite like the banter and the almost natural flow of conversation. I know it means some topics dont get discussed fully but often these topics wouldnt have warrented a seperate thread anyway. The topic usually moves on when its ready as the previous topic has been mostly exhausted. it also stops the same things being said and reiterated over and over by different people like happens when theres a single thread for each topic.

Id be all for superthread for most news and events, the odd seperate match thread for the big big matches (though usually matches to just be contained in the weekends match thread) and seperate threads for big news (new stadium, in depth discussion on a particulalar player for example in a stay or go siuation, like the tevez and heinze saga's, as well as new threads for likely potential big signings. Once its gone past speculation into clubs making actually inquiries and entering talks it deserves its own thread imo.

zing

The Rooster wrote:

Personally I'd be in favour of a superthread with no limitations on the amount of posts on it.

Same here.

What the utd supporters do with a thread per season makes a certain amount of sense and they're happy with it - wonderful. On the other hand the continuous thread also makes sense and certainly seemed to work for most Liverpool fans - sure it could get a little confusing when it was very busy/fast moving but that can apply to any thread regardless of size.

A very very quick scan shows that only Utd, Blackburn & Sunderland are doing a per season thread while Liverpool, Celtic, Newcastle, Spurs, Arsenal, Man City, Shef Wednesday & Villa all seem to favour the open ended/continuous thread approach (I've only gone back through 4 or 5 screens worth and could easily have missed a team or two in there). However with the exception of the LFC thread not many of the later bunch are over 12 months old and none of them come even close to the LFC thread in terms of numbers of posts so perhaps none of those sets of supporters thought the single thread approach through - or perhaps they did ?

IMO there should be no 'one size fits all' solution here. What works for one set of supporters may not work as well for others and either way I don't think it's right to enforce it upon them. There are flaws with all of the options/solutions to this argument.

Also I don't think the debate on super threads should be specific to the Soccer forum or any other forum for that matter - it's a potential boards wide issue (from a performance/scalability point of view) and as such should be decided/ruled upon by the admins rather than a group of mods within a given forum. Now the mods here might be well meaning but as has previously been mentioned the admins don't seem to have a problem with superthreads (or at least I've seen no attempts to get rid of them) so why should the Soccer forum impose a ban on them ?

_blank_

zing wrote:

sure it could get a little confusing when it was very busy/fast moving but that can apply to any thread regardless of size.

Very true. Look at hot topics in AH for instance.

zing wrote:

A very very quick scan shows that only Utd, Blackburn & Sunderland are doing a per season thread while Liverpool, Celtic, Newcastle, Spurs, Arsenal, Man City, Shef Wednesday & Villa all seem to favour the open ended/continuous thread approach.

Right, this here is the issue.

If I remember rightly, actually, I do, here's the quote from post #1 of the United Thread

PHB wrote:

End of season, next season begins

Now, if PHB hadn't have done that, it would have been business as usual in the older thread. But in fairness, who wants, or needs, to read posts 2+ years old. Imagine a n00b seeing the 10,000 post Liverpool thread tomorrow?

Why not have a periodic changeover, it makes so much sense. AFAICSee, there's no need to keep on posting in, what is essentially, a 2 year old thread.

zing wrote:

There are flaws with all of the options/solutions to this argument.

Yes, but in fairness to the Mods, they have asked opinions, and seem content to go with majority on this.

Instead of a 'Post Number' Limit on threads, what about a time limit? Say six months for the most popular clubs, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal. A year for Villa, Blackburn, eL.

zing wrote:

it's a potential boards wide issue (from a performance/scalability point of view) and as such should be decided/ruled upon by the admins rather than a group of mods within a given forum.

It has been stated enough times that there are no performance problems with the Superthreads, from an Admin pov anyway.

What service do the 2 year old threads perform?

No problem with long threads, but there is a limit imo. There's no need to be able to reference, in the same thread, a post from 2 years ago.

opr

Superthread for most stuff but if someone wants to create an individual thread as they feel a certain topic deserves more discussion thats cool. More or less the way it was.

Opr

kinaldo

Happy the way things are. The Newcastle thread is fairly convenient as there's not many Irish Geordies so it without it no-one would bother posting about many of the topics within that thread. I have visions of a boardsies piss-up celebration with Limerick Dude, Evilhomer etc. when we finally win that elusive trophy

zing

seansouth wrote:

Imagine a n00b seeing the 10,000 post Liverpool thread tomorrow?

But would they really be put off any more than seeing a 1,500 post Utd thread ? Esp when that's 1,500 is just 11 weeks - could easily be up over 4 or 5k in the second half of the season. Regardless of the enforced limits on any superthread no n00b is going to go back through that thread unless they've got loads of time on their hands.

What service do the 2 year old threads perform?

What service does any thread perform ? Surely that service is largely going to be down to what those who read/contribute to it frequently get out of it ?

leninbenjamin

clearly establish what goes into the superthreads and what doesn't. it gets kinda annoying seeing the same discussion happen in different threads.

the only problem with superthreads is that the logical flow of conversation gets muddled up by multiple topics at once. having a mod to splice and fix each thread periodically might be an idea, but could also be a lot of work i guess. and let's face it, the problems of superthreads are the problems of almost every other thread.

smackbunnybaby

the sheffield wednesday thread is over 5 years old and has about 350 replies. i really dont see a point in starting a new one every season etc.
the small bunch of wednesday fans here know the thread exists and post accordingly.

i personally dont think many people on this board really read anything in that thread, as very little response is given to posts therefore i dont see a point in opening multiple threads people aren't going to read as it clogs up the board.

to be honest this whole debate is centered around the size of the clubs and the fanbase on here.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

therecklessone

I've said it twice quite recently, both general threads and individual threads can co-exist on the forum.

General thread for rumours, team talk, reserve reports, and such and such.

Individual threads for big news, transfers, injuries to key players etc etc.

Who decides what's what? First off the poster, I'd like to think common sense would prevail. In the absence of such, or for a genuine misjudgement, mods should reserve the right to merge threads.

As for closing superthreads and opening new ones? Mods call when to do so, I'd suggest every transfer window for the busier threads, and maybe every season for the not so busy. Anything with less than 500 posts is hardly unwieldy, so I'd be less inclined to close/open there.

One thing I think that would help continuity of discussion is that the first post of every new thread being a link to the closed thread, so it's easy enough to follow on from previous discussions. I imagine we can all use the quote function and link to posts on other threads, so continuing a debate from a previous thread shouldn't be that hard.

PHB wrote:

What I would really want to see is a one-week ban for anybody saying, 'ffs, like, couldn't you post this in the general thread?'

Agree, with one caveat: if a poster knows that a topic is already being discussed on a superthread then they should be able to point that out ("hey, we're talking about this on the superthread link, why not join us there" for example).

RE*AC*TOR

I'm in favour of arbitrary rules that to as big an extent as possible limit what can be said and how much can be said. Also the titles of the super-threads should contain no words, merely a pre-defined 8 digit number, that should change at regular intervals. A reference sticky at the top of the soccer forum could indicate what 8 digit numbers refer to which club, and when that number is due to expire.

Galvasean

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

In my view the way that the man u fans do it was quite good, ie finishing one at the end of a season and starting a new one.

I think thats a good idea and should be used for all major clubs. I don't think any other restrictions on the Sthreads are necessary.

Villain

I think a new thread after 5,000 posts or a new season which ever comes first and if a big story which deserves a thread of its own happens thats fine.

One rule I would like to see is bannings for posters who post in other teams threads with posts that are just negative or trolling in any way. e.g if a team is linked with a player and someone who isn't a fan posts "He's too good for your team". That type of post is just posted to wind people up.

Vokes

But surely if said non-fan user backs up that statement with some kind of reasoning behind it, then it should be ok?

Villain

Oh yea of course but a one liner to cause trouble is not needed imo.

Vokes

OK, i getchya.

Agree with other users above, a new superthread every season (June 01 - May 31) and don't think any other restrictions are needed.

NotWormBoy

As regards the limit on the size of superthreads... Apologies if I should know this, why is the limit in question? Is there a technical reason behind it or just purely down to user preference? If the latter, I see no reason to put a limit in place - if the users of the threads in question like it as one massive dump of club related chat and material then so be it.

Mind you, personally, I don't care if its one massive 2/3/+ long year superthread or several 1 season long threads. Though the old Liverpool one (the one I'd read) did have a certain charm to it. And thats not willy waving, and i don't think there's much going on - its kinda sad if one is proud of the length of one's thread.

besty

irish1 wrote:

I think a new thread after 5,000 posts or a new season which ever comes first and if a big story which deserves a thread of its own happens thats fine.

One rule I would like to see is bannings for posters who post in other teams threads with posts that are just negative or trolling in any way. e.g if a team is linked with a player and someone who isn't a fan posts "He's too good for your team". That type of post is just posted to wind people up.

I reckon that's fairly logical. Although, I'm not mad about the idea of placing artificial limits on the lifetime of these threads, i.e. 5000 posts. I reckon football parameters should dictate when a new one is opened. The most logical one is clearly season to season. I see no problem to continue that way.

As regards the content of these threads, I think basically anything bar a story of far reaching importance should go into the individual team's thread. Be that a reserve report, a throwaway transfer rumour etc. Something like the Tevez transfer was clearly of wider interest than to United and West Ham fans exclusively, so that could command a thread of it's own.

PiE

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I'm in favour of arbitrary rules that to as big an extent as possible limit what can be said and how much can be said. Also the titles of the super-threads should contain no words, merely a pre-defined 8 digit number, that should change at regular intervals. A reference sticky at the top of the soccer forum could indicate what 8 digit numbers refer to which club, and when that number is due to expire.

Agreed.

There's really no need for this. Open a new Liverpool superthread if needs must, but just stop all the fussin' already.

smackbunnybaby

ziggy67 wrote:

We're discussing SUPERTHREADS here. This doesn't concern you

The Sheffield Wednesday Thread - Still the original and best superthread

PHB

No posts in four days would suggest nobody else has anything to add

acquiescefc

smackbunnybaby wrote:

The Sheffield Wednesday Thread - Still the original and best superthread

I agree.... leave the superWednesdaythread as it is. Its an acquired taste, like Hendersons.

~Rebel~

At the end of the day surely the most suitable thing is to have the superthread for smaller news that doesn't deserve a bigger thread (such as Anderson going on loan which would definately definately have been discussed to a fair degree, rather then not mentioned at all) and then separate threads for the odd proper issue like a major signing or injury blow etc.

You know it makes sense.

PHB

So I was wondering now that the superthreads are back, will there be a rule about a poster saying something like,

Who cares if Tevez/Torres/Eduardo

What's wrong with the Man UTD/Liverpool/Arsenal Transfer thread?

Mr Alan

The rule should be, anyone who posts anything like that can be openly harassed for 2 days!

and then banned for a week

(except cases where its blatantly obvious it should be in the superthread)