Shame of the Irish sunshine supporter

SectionF

This in today's Sindo (no byline given online). Edit: it's Eamonn Sweeney, Sligo Rovers supporter.

You can't consider yourself a genuine fan unless you make the effort to support the domestic game.

If you're one of the people whose only sight of an eircom League ground comes when an English team visits, shame on you. Because you can't consider yourself a genuine fan unless you make the effort to support the domestic game. It is, after all, where Roy Keane got his start.

Pepe LeFrits

:rolleyes:

Here we go again...

Attractive Nun

I echo the abovementioned :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Yawn.

I hope to god all the militant EL supporters only buy from 100% Irish companies, never buy online from foreign countries/companies and certainly never go abroad, cant be supporting evil foreigners when theres plenty of shops here in Ireland.

Mossy Monk

If only I had sight of an Eircom League ground close to my home.

SectionF

Pepe, did you read the piece in one minute? :eek:

KdjaCL

SectionF wrote:

Pepe, did you read the piece in one minute? :eek:

Didnt have too once it was posted by you he instantly assumed something, are you not used to it?

I laughed at Bertie and the irish PL fans whinging about EL fans booing Keane and their teams, shocking behaviour really

kdjac

therecklessone

Here's an article saying something similar.

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

Didnt have too once it was posted by you he instantly assumed something, are you not used to it?

I laughed at Bertie and the irish PL fans whinging about EL fans booing Keane and their teams, shocking behaviour really

kdjac

whats with the stupid grin at the end of your post, i'm sure you were a roy keane fanboy when he was one of the worlds best midfielders playing for ireland

SectionF

therecklessone wrote:

Here's an article saying something similar.

You're suggesting that the article is repetitious and run-of-the-mill, and all those breathless previews of the EPL aren't?

Pepe LeFrits

SectionF wrote:

Pepe, did you read the piece in one minute? :eek:

No, in that minute I read the part that you deemed the most important (as you quoted only it) and composed a reply. I used the time I saved from not reading the article to do something something more important, like picking my nose.

Zebra3

Stekelly wrote:

I hope to god....

Please keep religion out of football.

therecklessone wrote:

Here's an article saying something similar.

I would have thought even a Spurs fan could tell the difference between an image and an article.

Villain

LOL Ah I love those rants about how all soccer fans should support the EL because its Irish and supporting PL clubs is awful, although they don't normally mention that the EL standard of football isn't much better than most Sunday Leagues and considering the number of people that play in those leagues every week I'd say Local Irish soccer is well supported.

I suppose the fact I'm a sports fan and Irish I should be out cheering my County in GAA as well.... wait I'm from Carlow I have an excuse.

DSB

irish1 wrote:

LOL Ah I love those rants about how all soccer fans should support the EL because its Irish and supporting PL clubs is awful, although they don't normally mention that the EL standard of football isn't much better than most Sunday Leagues and considering the number of people that play in those leagues every week I'd say Local Irish soccer is well supported.

I suppose the fact I'm a sports fan and Irish I should be out cheering my County in GAA as well.... wait I'm from Carlow I have an excuse.

And these rants aren't equally generic?

Villain

Ah of course they are but mines on an internet forum not in a leading Sunday paper!

DSB

I agree with what he is saying though. Not that the Premiership is an enemy league for foreigners or anything. But whats the point in supporting the national team if you aren't willing to support from grassroots at least to an extent? I mean I'm aware that quite a few of the Irish players come through youth systems at English clubs. But like surely thats something we want to change? With a stronger Irish league we'd see more of our top players staying here and making the league even stronger. Surely direct spinoffs for this would be better training facilities for our young players and better young players coming through. Or are we really that happy to relinquish control over our young players' development?

applehunter

Its frustrating to see the Cross packed last Monday for a meaningless game and then on Friday vs Sligo I'd say Id be pushing it if there were 3000 for a much more important game.

The standard in all aspects of the League is getting better and is the leap from only 5 years ago is massive. The perception is there with the Irish public that its a poor standard.

I hear it at work, from my family. Things like "you watch that stuff"

Up to FAI to change the perception. What gives me hope is the amount of young people at the games. These will be the hardcore of the future.

DSB

Yeah the FAI does a really poor job of marketing the league. I think they are quite happy to have their national players come from England though which is quite disapointing.

Villain

Oh I think improving the EL can only be a good thing for soccer in this country and if there was a local EL team I would support them but with the PL clubs are willing to give our best young players the chance to play in one of the top leagues in the world just a ferry or short flight away and I can never see the EL being able to hold on our best talent and tbh I would much prefer our International players were giving the best coaching and play at the highest levels but that just isn't possible here at the moment.

One major issue I have with people shouting down the Irish PL fans is they don't take into account the number of PL fans that do so much of soccer in Ireland. Take my father for example I don't think he's ever being to an EL match but he has been to a very large number of Irish UnderAge games including the Irish Womens team as he spends most of his retirement working to develop soccer in this area, now he loves the PL and doesn't watch the EL is he an Irish Sunshine supporter?

DSB

irish1 wrote:

Oh I think improving the EL can only be a good thing for soccer in this country and if there was a local EL team I would support them but with the PL clubs are willing to give our best young players the chance to play in one of the top leagues in the world just a ferry or short flight away and I can never see the EL being able to hold on our best talent and tbh I would much prefer our International players were giving the best coaching and play at the highest levels but that just isn't possible here at the moment.

One major issue I have with people shouting down the Irish PL fans is they don't take into account the number of PL fans that do so much of soccer in Ireland. Take my father for example I don't think he's ever being to an EL match but he has been to a very large number of Irish UnderAge games including the Irish Womens team as he spends most of his retirement working to develop soccer in this area, now he loves the PL and doesn't watch the EL is he an Irish Sunshine supporter?

no he isnt. but he is clearly an exception to the rule. look at most of the football fans you know and see can you say the same. and yeah the facilities aren't really here at the moment. although they aren't terrible by any means. but clearly this is the point that the piece is making. how will the clubs develop to ever make these facilities happen?

and all of this isn't to suggest for a minute that football fans should feel compelled to go to Irish games or be branded a fake(well maybe the article is i amn't sure, but what i'm saying isn't). its the general attitude towards Eircom League football among people. Most of whom are really ill-informed. Although they'll all claim to be having seen that team play Sunderland or Leeds the week previous.

smemon

People don't go to irish league matches because the standard is poor, they aren't shown on TV and no Irish side has success on any stage outside of Ireland..

Simple.

If someone happens to break into the champions league group stages - then you'll see sides supported and money going into the game.

Ironically, it's sunshine supporters who make or break a side. You only have to look at liverpool or Utd to prove that. Success brings out sunshine supporters.

If you don't have success on some stage at some time, you can't expect to have an army of followers.

SectionF

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

No, in that minute I read the part that you deemed the most important (as you quoted only it) and composed a reply. I used the time I saved from not reading the article to do something something more important, like picking my nose.

I've read a lot of false oppositions on this board, but you've created a real original there. Do you mean to say that you can't multi-task and read a short article and pick your nose at the same time?

applehunter

to chance

applehunter

smemon wrote:

People don't go to irish league matches because the standard is poor, they aren't shown on TV and no Irish side has success on any stage outside of Ireland..

Simple.

If someone happens to break into the champions league group stages - then you'll see sides supported and money going into the game.

Ironically, it's sunshine supporters who make or break a side. You only have to look at liverpool or Utd to prove that. Success brings out sunshine supporters.

If you don't have success on some stage at some time, you can't expect to have an army of followers.

Thats not what following a team is about! Shels got 25,000 at Lansdowne and only 1500 at their next match. You need sustained support.

You're wrong about TV too, matches are nearly on once a week at this stage.

Pepe LeFrits

SectionF wrote:

I've read a lot of false oppositions on this board, but you've created a real original there. Do you mean to say that you can't multi-task and read a short article and pick your nose at the same time?

I don't like to put the quality of my nose picking at risk for no good reason.

Xterminator

The customer is always right.

Isnt that a rule of customer service?

If there was an irish chipper and an italian one near each other and the irish chipper sold crap chips and poor quality burgers, while the italian chipper sold lovely food; id say 99% of people would go to the italian.

Its the same with footie. Yes we're fans, but we're also the customers. And the customer are voting with their feet. Celtic, liverpool, Sunderland and Man U are attracting more irish a weekend than attend the average Eircom league match.

The FAI dont market their product. there was nearly no advertising of the european ties. Why not? And week in week out, theres next to no advertising, no raising awareness.

Not that the product is that great. We could do with an all ireland football league, that can support a professional top tier of professional clubs that are not only a bad decision away from insolvancy. A celtic cup with scottish and welsh teams, would also catch the imagination and get media coverage.

I dont buy ****e food, and i dont pay to watch irish leage football. (Well not regulalry anyway). and i am the customer.

X

SectionF

Xterminator wrote:

The customer is always right... we're fans, but we're also the customers... i am the customer

Actually, I think you have it there in a nutshell. I have to say, I've never, ever thought of football in those terms.

applehunter

Xterminator wrote:

I dont buy ****e food, and i dont pay to watch irish leage football. (Well not regulalry anyway). and i am the customer.

X

The quality of chippers in Dublin is shocking. All these Italian places with their crappy chips and no proper curry sauce.

Zebra3

SectionF wrote:

Actually, I think you have it there in a nutshell. I have to say, I've never, ever thought of football in those terms.

I think what he is saying is that people that go to EL matches are fans, and that Irish people who follow English teams are consumers.

gustavo

irish1 wrote:

LOL Ah I love those rants about how all soccer fans should support the EL because its Irish and supporting PL clubs is awful, although they don't normally mention that the EL standard of football isn't much better than most Sunday Leagues and considering the number of people that play in those leagues every week I'd say Local Irish soccer is well supported.

I suppose the fact I'm a sports fan and Irish I should be out cheering my County in GAA as well.... wait I'm from Carlow I have an excuse.

Whats a Sunday League?
Here in Ireland I presume you are reffering to Junior leagues of which obviously the eircom League is a better standard. Saying the standard isnt great is irrelevant in my eyes, You are only comparing it to one country and its leagues , If the article was written about Belguim lets say and it was a Belgian saying that Belgians should support their league because it is Belgian , I doubt you would be thinking it was such a stupid sentiment

gustavo

Xterminator wrote:

I dont buy ****e food, and i dont pay to watch irish leage football. (Well not regulalry anyway). and i am the customer.

X

At least try to be knowledgable of the product you are knocking :rolleyes:

Pigman II

I think a thing that is often conveniently forgotten in this discussion is the large population of England relative to our own

Population of England = 50 million
Population of Rep.Ireland = 4.2 million

Ratio = 12:1

The average league attendances of the top 12 clubs in England for 2006-07 was

75826, 60045, 50686, 43561, 41542, 39997, 36739, 36214, 35739, 34719, 30512, 27730

Divide these figures by 12:1 to get

6319, 5004, 4224, 3630, 3462, 3333, 3062, 3018, 2978, 2893, 2543, 2311

These are the sort of average attendances clubs in this country could reasonably expect if we had the same cultural attachment to football that exists in England. EL clubs are currently at about 50% of these figures. so even if there was a complete culture change towards football in this country and it became sport#1 those sort of attendances would reasonbly be the MAX you could expect on a regular basis. Obviously a small country could have one or two "huge" clubs and that could boost the average slightly but it'd just be skewing the figures rather than showing an accurate level of support across the board.

Basically what I'm saying is this country doesn't have the demographics require to produce the kind of clubs/product casual supporters demand and you're never going to do much to change that whilst the population is what it is beyond throwing funny money at it.

applehunter

They have in Dublin

Pigman II

Well that's the only alternative you have here. One or two huge club in Dublin that squash the rest of the country. Great for supporters of that particular team(s) but I can't see it doing anything for the rest of the EL clubs. Might mean we have someone making it to the CL but it'll mean the league is pretty much over from day1.

PDN

Irish sunshine supporters?

As a devoted follower of an Eircom League club (Drogheda) I thought we were the sunshine supporters. After all, our league plays in the Summer, while the English Premiership fans brave the snow, fog, dark winter nights etc.

DSB

Sunshine? Ireland? Summer? You're having a laugh.

KdjaCL

Xterminator wrote:

The customer is always right.

Isnt that a rule of customer service?

If there was an irish chipper and an italian one near each other and the irish chipper sold crap chips and poor quality burgers, while the italian chipper sold lovely food; id say 99% of people would go to the italian.

No they wouldnt they would ring in and get it delivered i bet the irish one doesnt deliver.


kdjac

DSB

Pigman II wrote:

One or two huge club in Dublin that squash the rest of the country.

How have they squashed the rest of the country? Cork, Drogheda and Derry have been the dominant teams of the last few years. The league has come on steadily but there are limits to how success can continue and these are directly linked to how Irish people get behind the game.

Small initiatives can make all the difference in getting supporters involved. I've been making friends from college come to Shels games with me recently (mainly out of lack of being able to get anyone else to go) and a few of them are starting to get a bit of an attachment to the club. I plan to apply to my college Student Union and hopefully get a Shelbourne supporters society in the college which might encourage a few more people to get into it. Its all about creating an attachment to the clubs. Because as a Villa fan and a Shelbourne fan, while Villa may have far better players, I still feel more attachment to Shels because I'm there watching it every week and feel a part of it. You don't get that when you come home week after week to check the result of your favourite club on teletext.

Pigman II

DSB wrote:

How have they squashed the rest of the country?

Where did I say they had?

shane86

smemon wrote:

Ironically, it's sunshine supporters who make or break a side. You only have to look at liverpool or Utd to prove that. Success brings out sunshine supporters.

Good point. Most prem supporters outside of the cities they are based in are sunshine supporters by default. Most of you started supporting x y and z when they were doing well in the 90s (namely Liverpool, Man U and, everyones favourite as they seldom lose in the SPL, Celtic ) . Todays kids are picking similiar teams after seeing Man U lift the Prem/Chelsea the FA/Liverpool win the CL in 05 and make the final in 07. I knew the odd Leicester and Leeds fans in the 90s, how many 13 year olds back them today do you think? Even our national squad suffers the scourge of the sunshine supporter- some of the comments written on this very board last winter by about 3 names I recall were embarassing, the country can live without glory hunters who wanted a San Marino win to force Stan out.

DSB

Pigman II wrote:

One or two huge club in Dublin that squash the rest of the country.

Pretty simple really.

Pigman II

DSB wrote:

Pretty simple really.

Yes, clearly you are.

Now once again (and read the request carefully) could you provide evidence to where I said any Dublin club HAD or HAS squashed those in the rest of the country?

The Muppet

This is the usual stupid argument, all it will ever achieve is to alienate fans of foreign teams further against the home league.

The economics of the matter dictate that Ireland will never be able to compete with the top leagues in the world, The sooner the whingers realise this and stop moaning the better for all concerned.

BTW I dont see anything to be ashamed of in supporting foreign teams.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

This is the usual stupid argument, all it will ever achieve is to alienate fans of foreign teams further against the home league.

The economics of the matter dictate that Ireland will never be able to compete with the top leagues in the world, The sooner the whingers realise this and stop moaning the better for all concerned.

Why should we have to compete with the top leagues of the world? God ****ing help all those fans all over the world who dont support big teams in big leagues. The sooner the gimps stop comparing the better for all concerned.

Is it stupid post weekend?

BTW I dont see anything to be ashamed of in supporting foreign teams.

Your not but they are.

May as well add in a stupid pointless post, Weds morning in Dublin Airport getting flight to Denmark and met a few Sunderland fans going home proceded to take the piss out of them as calling them plastic paddies etc nice lads told me how embarassed they were in ireland for the games with everyone cheering them and supporting them, they came over expecting abuse and banter between irish and english fans and said they enjoyed the bohs game the most. I told them our Prime Minister was in the papers complaining about the bohs fans


kdjac

therecklessone

KdjaCL wrote:

I told them our Prime Minister was in the papers complaining about the bohs fans

Its Taoiseach...:p

The Muppet

KdjaCL wrote:

Why should we have to compete with the top leagues of the world? God ****ing help all those fans all over the world who dont support big teams in big leagues. The sooner the gimps stop comparing the better for all concerned.

Product Quality . I can watch crap football to my hearts content in the local park.

KdjaCL wrote:

Is it stupid post weekend?

Apparently it is.

KdjaCL wrote:

Your not but they are.

May as well add in a stupid pointless post, Weds morning in Dublin Airport getting flight to Denmark and met a few Sunderland fans going home proceded to take the piss out of them as calling them plastic paddies etc nice lads told me how embarassed they were in ireland for the games with everyone cheering them and supporting them, they came over expecting abuse and banter between irish and english fans and said they enjoyed the bohs game the most. I told them our Prime Minister was in the papers complaining about the bohs fans


kdjac

Riviting stuff

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

Product Quality

The last 2 times the best 2 teams the premiership played each other really sum up your point.

kdjac

applehunter

Anyway back on topic.

Sweeney gives his article in the paper but this same paper's coverage of the league is woeful at the best of times.

Himself and Sean Ryan are the voices in the darkness in Tony O'Reilly's dungeons.

The Muppet

KdjaCL wrote:

The last 2 times the best 2 teams the premiership played each other really sum up your point.

kdjac

Your point is, assuming you have one?

You're right about one thing though, It's definitely stupid post weekend.

Galvasean

I wish i could support an Irish team. i really do. I just find the league dull and uninteresting.

Mikeyt086

Whats wrong with supporting both? I head down the Carlisle Grounds whenever i can, and have done since my dad took me when i was 6, but at the same time im United till i die.