Shannon-Heathrow discussion [merged]

Amazotheamazing

Liam Byrne wrote:

Always thought of Noel Dempsey as a crap arrogant, do-nothing gob****e (his inaction and statistical lies on Broadband were laughable) but his statement this morning that the fiasco was "fun and games" and that the FF TDs will "meekly troop back into line" is astonishing.

FF must obviously have given up on getting any votes in the Mid-West next time around.....

His other statement - "we are not going to collude with a rival of Aer Lingus"......forget the promises to the Irish people - saving face is more important.

Of course, according to the rewritten history, the government apparently "kept its shares in order to prevent a hostile takeover of Aer Lingus and to prevent the Heathrow routes being sold off completely" - forget the fact that that's not what they said at the time, it's what they're saying now, so it must be true [like a Bertie "where did I get the cash" question] and if it suits them later, they'll change "the truth" again.

Once upon a time, it seemed like it was policy that anything an FF TD wrote down needed to be written in invisible ink; now, having had the people vote for them regardless of the cock-ups, corruption and lies, they don't even bother doing that anymore.....[most of] the electorate don't care about truth, consistency, promises and ethics, so why should they ?

Don't you get it?

FF don't give a single **** about the midwest and that is reflected in the jokeshop candidates they have here. O'Dea, Power, etc are nobodies in Dublin but morons here will keep on voting them in.

hobie

And still no sight nor sign of Bertie .......:rolleyes:

What message is that sending out ......

Meanwhile Noel Dempsey seems to be the new FF Rottwieler ..... the message to all FF TD's and Councillors is clearly "You will obey Party headquarters" ..... full stop !!!!!!

You know the Mid West could lose this fight if we are not deadly carefull ..... :cool:

I can say all this without hesitation ..... I voted the $$$$$$$$$$$ in .... :mad:

highlydebased

Todays Independent states the airport has been talking to BA

bill_ashmount

Liam Byrne wrote:

Always thought of Noel Dempsey as a crap arrogant, do-nothing gob****e (his inaction and statistical lies on Broadband were laughable) but his statement this morning that the fiasco was "fun and games" and that the FF TDs will "meekly troop back into line" is astonishing.

FF must obviously have given up on getting any votes in the Mid-West next time around.....

He's probably right, they will follow the party line rather than jeopardise their careers and in 5 years time they'll probably get re-elected anyway despite what people say now.

highlydebased

Berties made a statement, at last

The Taosieach Bertie Ahern has said that while the Aer Lingus decision to move its operation from Shannon to Belfast was disappointing, the Government would do nothing to undermine that decision.

Speaking for the first time since the airline announced its decision last month, Mr Ahern said the focus must now be to get another operator into Shannon.

He said the Government had no advance warning of the decision, adding that it contravened the Government's aviation policy and the spatial strategy.
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He also said there is no split either within the Cabinet or the Fianna Fáil Party on the issue.

Earlier today, Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said it will be several weeks before it is known if an alternative Heathrow service can be established at Shannon Airport.

Mr Dempsey said the focus must remain on attracting an alternative airline to operate the service and he said contact has now been made with British Airways.

Yesterday, he was insistent that the Government would not support a Ryanair bid to force Aer Lingus to hold an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss the Shannon withdrawal.

Liam Byrne

Neon-Circles wrote:

Berties made a statement, at last

FINALLY SOME TRUTH.....the report says that "the Government would do nothing...."; note that it's not "could do nothing"....

In other words, they couldn't be arsed......despite the admission that it's against their policies and strategies.

Give me Enda Kenny any day.......

billy the squid

Niall Collins TD wrote:

I won't vote against the Government. If you are marginalised you have no influence. You are better off inside where you can make some kind of a fight. In the political party system the minority has to abide by the majority.

What a gutless wonder Collins is.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Hurraah for democracy! :rolleyes:

Politics is so frustrating in this country. Lots of people, including surprisingly a lot of young people have been conditioned into voting for a particular party, cos "that's the way I always voted, and my father before me blah blah blah. And of course our family was pro/anti treaty during the war."

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael get so many votes due to this archaic way of thinking. Bertie and Enda could threaten to gas the lot of us and the hardcore would still vote for them.

You may as well be talking to the wall when you have a debate with the hardcore and urge them to keep an open mind to all candidates and parties.

hobie

I was listening to Dooley (FF TD Clare) this morning and he made a good point that for the past 3 to 4 weeks messr's Dempsey and Hanafin, with all their wisdom, have been telling us that the LHR slots are not important ...... I rem one famous quote ...... "the West should stop moaning like spoilt children" ..... :mad:

Now because of all the pressure from the West, Bertie accepts that the LHR connections are critical to existing and future progress in our part of the world ....

Mr E

Michael O'Leary's latest line is that BMI/BA won't take Aer Lingus's slots in LHW because the slots are more valuable to international flights. I thought all flights in that terminal were domestic? (or are slots transferable?)

highlydebased

Slots can be used to fly anywhere, and (apparently) Ireland-UK is considered domestic commuter travel

boardsdotie

Sent an irate email to Bertie got a reply from Noels typing pool :rolleyes:



Dear XX XXXXXXXX,




I refer to your email of 9 August 2007 to An Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern T.D., which has been referred to me. I am deeply disappointed with this decision and I would like to assure you that I am very committed to ensuring that the Midwest region will continue to have the widest possible range of connectivity options available for the benefit of business and tourism throughout the region.




The re-deployment of slots and other resources in this particular case was a commercial decision made by the executive management team in the Company. The decision was taken by management of Aer Lingus on foot of a mandate from the Board to examine and develop commercial opportunities, in accordance with the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the Company.




Aer Lingus is a private Company and has to take its own commercial decisions. The Government’s shareholding does not confer on me a right to influence commercial operations of the company. In the circumstances, it would be inappropriate for me to directly intervene and to do so would ultimately be damaging to the airline and its customers. There are a number of limitations in Article 84 of the Articles of Association on the right of a shareholder to overrule Aer Lingus management on business matters. In law, the Directors are responsible for managing the company’s business. The Shareholders are not entitled to overrule management’s decision on business issues by way of a Resolution passed at an EGM. Furthermore, Directors are not obliged, as a matter of law, to follow any directions from the shareholders in relation to business matters or to obey any Resolution with regard to such matters.




I have spoken recently with the Executive Chairman of Shannon Airport Authority and I welcome the efforts the airport is making to further enhance connectivity. The possibility of developing new air services from Shannon, including a service to Paris (Charles de Gaulle) Airport, which is a major hub for international connectivity, is currently being explored.




The announcement of additional flights by Ryanair from Shannon to its three airport bases in London underlines the fact that the airline industry is quick to respond to emerging business opportunities. The additional Ryanair flights also increases the connectivity options for passengers wishing to make onward journeys to other European and long-haul destinations, bearing in mind the extensive range of international air services available at Stansted and Gatwick in particular. It cannot be excluded that other airlines may also identify further new service opportunities.




I wish to reiterate that I am fully committed to ensuring the connectivity of the Shannon region with short haul and long haul markets and my Department will continue to deliver a range of transport infrastructure projects through the Transport 21 programme to further improve access for the region.




Yours sincerely,










Noel Dempsey, T.D.,

Minister for Transport.

Liam Byrne

WTF ?

I have spoken recently with the Executive Chairman of Shannon Airport Authority...

We were SO wrong to accuse him of doing "nothing"....he has "spoken to people" (assuming "recently" implies "more recent than the crisis", which since it came from an FF minister I wouldn't bank on - "recently" could have been 2 months ago, or he could have "spoken" with the chairman to tell him "you're f**ked". Pure and pointless waffle :rolleyes:

....and I welcome the efforts the airport is making to further enhance connectivity.

More pure waffle. The airport's doing some work and he "welcomes" it. Big deal.

Send him back a reply to say that the Government's shareholding was (we were told by Bertie) in order to ensure that we kept our slots, but now they're being transferred outside the state, so how can the Government NOT act ?

jbkenn

From the RTE News website

A delegation of TDs from the mid-west, including four Fianna Fáil backbenchers, have met Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey to discuss Aer Lingus' decision to end its Shannon-Heathrow service.

Peter Power, Timmy Dooley, Niall Collins and John Cregan and a number of other TDs from the region sought the meeting to discuss the Government response to the issue.

They say they are confident all that can be done to restore Heathrow services to the airport is being done by the Government.

Aer Lingus say they are not for changing, Bertie says the Government will not interfere, so what exactly is being done, that these twits are so confident about??

jbkenn

highlydebased

Attracting a new carrier

boardsdotie

Liam Byrne wrote:

WTF ?

We were SO wrong to accuse him of doing "nothing"....he has "spoken to people" (assuming "recently" implies "more recent than the crisis", which since it came from an FF minister I wouldn't bank on - "recently" could have been 2 months ago, or he could have "spoken" with the chairman to tell him "you're f**ked". Pure and pointless waffle :rolleyes:



More pure waffle. The airport's doing some work and he "welcomes" it. Big deal.

Send him back a reply to say that the Government's shareholding was (we were told by Bertie) in order to ensure that we kept our slots, but now they're being transferred outside the state, so how can the Government NOT act ?

Just did, thanks, will wait 1 month for reply from the government i voted for...

highlydebased

Interesting development from BMI today

British Midland has asked the Shannon Airport Authority (SAA) to guarantee it 20,000 corporate passengers a year as part of its negotiations with the authority on taking over the Shannon to Heathrow service after Aer Lingus gives up the route.

The deal would involve businesses in the midwest agreeing to use all the flights on an annual basis. A board member of the airport authority confirmed the British airline was seeking a ‘‘significant number’’ of guaranteed seats annually.

A British Midland spokesman did not deny the request was made, but said he would not comment on any part of the negotiations ahead of a possible future announcement.



BM seeks passenger numbers guarantee in Shannon talks
09 September 2007 By Nicola Cooke
British Midland has asked the Shannon Airport Authority (SAA) to guarantee it 20,000 corporate passengers a year as part of its negotiations with the authority on taking over the Shannon to Heathrow service after Aer Lingus gives up the route.

The deal would involve businesses in the midwest agreeing to use all the flights on an annual basis. A board member of the airport authority confirmed the British airline was seeking a ‘‘significant number’’ of guaranteed seats annually.

A British Midland spokesman did not deny the request was made, but said he would not comment on any part of the negotiations ahead of a possible future announcement.




About 350,000 passengers use the Shannon/Heathrow route annually, and 25 per cent of these are business travellers.

Aer Lingus has corporate deals with some companies who use the service regularly, but no company has given written guarantees about their use of the service.

The guarantee deals are common in the US, where new carriers want to secure guaranteed passenger numbers. Business leaders in Shannon are somewhat sceptical, however, as they are concerned they may end up being billed for flights they have not used.

In the US, ‘leftover flights’ are pooled between all airlines at the airport in question, so more than one service can be used.

In a separate development, the Atlantic Connectivity Alliance (ACA) - made up of more than 200 companies in the Shannon region - is prepared, as a last resort, to try and procure or buy slots from Heathrow and lease aircraft, so that landing slots are guaranteed for Shannon passengers at the London airport in the future.

John Brassil, chairman of the ACA, said the viability of businesses in the midwest region could only be sustained with guaranteed landing slots at Heathrow.

‘‘Our primary objective is to have the Aer Lingus decision on its Shannon/Heathrow service reversed, but we are keeping as many options on the table as possible.”

hobie

BM seeks passenger numbers guarantee in Shannon talks
09 September 2007 By Nicola Cooke
British Midland has asked the Shannon Airport Authority (SAA) to guarantee it 20,000 corporate passengers a year as part of its negotiations with the authority on taking over the Shannon to Heathrow service after Aer Lingus gives up the route.

The deal would involve businesses in the midwest agreeing to use all the flights on an annual basis. A board member of the airport authority confirmed the British airline was seeking a ‘‘significant number’’ of guaranteed seats annually.

There is certainly nothing wrong with this request ..... if BM come in and replace the Mid West / LHR services that are being decimated by our National Airline(Ex) they deserve the complete support of every company/organisation in the Mid West .....

1huge1

And im sure they'd get it

highlydebased

They will, fingers crossed. They are almost certainly the most likely candidate. They also offer business class which would go down well with business travellers

Poxyshamrock

Yeah hopefully they will. They're a great airline. Great Staff aswell

billy the squid

there are roughly 200 companies represented in the Atlantic connectivity alliance, one of them alone Element 6 takes up 1300 seats a year on the current shannon heathrow route.

I don't think BM would have any problem getting 20,000 business customers a year from shannon.

highlydebased

SAA now offering more discounts.....according to RTE

The Shannon Airport Authority is to offer reduced airport charges in a bid to attract new airlines to fly from Shannon to key European hubs in London Heathrow, Paris, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt.

The Authority says the development of such services will provide connectivity for passengers to worldwide destinations for both business and leisure purposes.

The new package of route support incentives involves a five-year discount package for qualifying airlines for passenger service, security, parking airbridge and runway movement charges.
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The discount would be 70% for the first two years after launching a service, 60% in year three, 50% in year four, and 30% for year five.

After the five-year period, all airport charges would be calculated at the standard rate.

Only new routes launched in the calendar year 2008 will qualify for the discounts.

The service must be non-stop, and promoted both as a connecting route to a hub and as a destination in its own right.

To qualify for the discounts, the new service must offer an obvious net economic benefit to Shannon Airport.

The new flights must also operate at the peak passenger periods to maximise traffic through the airport.

The Mayor of Clare has welcomed the announcement.

Councillor Patricia McCarthy expressed disappointment however that the authority had delayed in developing and offering such incentives.

5h4mr0(k

According to today's news, one of the things the FF think tank will be discussing over the next couple of days is the partys imminent expansion into Northern Ireland.

Anyone think AL opening a hub in Belfast will win them votes?

hobie

5h4mr0(k wrote:

According to today's news, on of the things the FF think tank will be discussing over the next couple of days is the partys imminent expansion into Northern Ireland.

Anyone think AL opening a hub in Belfast will win them votes?

It might if EI move half their long Haul fleet up to Aldergrove .....

It wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the master plan ..... :cool:

highlydebased

Probably is. Wouldnt surprise me.

highlydebased

Update- 21 September


Nothing at all heard in Media as of late regarding the route, apart from Fine Gael who are having some vote some time soon about it

Rumours suggest that BMI is nearly definate at this stage

Ryanair has said "it wont abandon the west" and will add more routes because of Aer Lingus. SNN-BVA being doubled to 2x daily next summer

highlydebased

The Shannon issue will be featured on Prime Time tonight on RTE

billy the squid

The government won the Shannon vote today by a single vote. looks like that is that as far as public representatives are concerned.

Now we wait and see if either the Atlantic Connectivity Alliance or Ryanair go to court.

soldering iron

I know that I will to torn a art what I am about to say, and in the interest of freedom of speech here goesI believe that Aer lingus Pulling of Shannon is totally a business call for the company, it has to survive in a world where wolf’s in sheep’s clothing i.e. M O’ Leary are undermining the airliners future.
The west as yeah like to now call your self’s are in my opinion just a bunch of wingers and spoilt brats so to speek,when the so called Celtic tiger Dublin Galway tiger) was in full swing the west enjoyed the full benefit of the incoming jobs, infrastructure and all the trapping that goes with the benefit of having someone to fight your corner in lenster house.
We in the south East did not benefit from the D&G tiger, there may be some infrastructure project going on right now, but it is 10 years to late. The D&G tiger is gone and has move to another country. We do not have direct flights to Heathrow airport in London, but we survive any way.
Aer lingus is gone like the D&G tiger to another country, and it’s now time for the so called west to move on and enjoy what you have now.