Am I missing something in the whole Heinze transfer saga....

Thanx 4 The Fish

Played at LB in the Copa though didn't he and I thought that the reason he wanted to play CB was because that was the position he was going for in the international setup. If he is happy at LB for Arg now perhaps he will not be pushing for CB so much anymore.

Lex Luthor

PHB wrote:

Either Riise or Agger are going to be dropped for him, and imo, I think it'll be Agger.

Agger is not going to be dropped.....the guy is a legend already

Mr Alan

Just read something interesting about the whole situation on another message board. not sure if its correct, but food for thought none the less - IF this tape of the recorded call Gill has does actually exist, and this case goes to court, they can't use it as it would be inadmissable unless the agent was notified that he was being recorded.

Devious

Looks like Lyon are interested in him now. Better than letting him go to the Scousers!

Jesus Wept

Devious wrote:

Looks like Lyon are interested in him now. Better than letting him go to the Scousers!

I hope if he doesn't go to Liverpool, that he stays at United, so everytime you see him you will be reminded of how he would rather play for us.

Devious

The-Rigger wrote:

I hope if he doesn't go to Liverpool, that he stays at United, so everytime you see him you will be reminded of how he would rather play for us.

Don't worry, if he does stay at United i'll see even less of him as the most action he'll see for the next year or two will be warming the bench for reserve games!

Jesus Wept

Devious wrote:

Don't worry, if he does stay at United i'll see even less of him as the most action he'll see for the next year or two will be warming the bench for reserve games!

Seems like a good way to spend £50,000+ a week.

Devious

The-Rigger wrote:

Seems like a good way to spend £50,000+ a week.

Remember though, its not about the money for Heinze; its all about his desire to play regular football! (Yea right)

Seriously though, if he did join Liverpool and found he wasn't first choice for the first couple of games, would he pull the same stunt again?

Jesus Wept

hmm, what stunt? Wanting better opportunities?

I wouldn't call it a stunt.

Devious

The-Rigger wrote:

hmm, what stunt? Wanting better opportunities?

I wouldn't call it a stunt.

Im just not convinced that his reason for wanting to move is a lack of first-team action with United; does he really believe he's going to get more games with Liverpool? Theres something else behind it; his cry of wanting to be first choice is just a convenient smokescreen, methinks.

iregk

Forgive me if this sounds somewhat lacking in advice on the situation. The truth is I don't really know anything about this transfer saga, it doesn't involve my club so up to now I couldn't care less.

My point though is, whats the problem here? Liverpool made an inquiry, United set a fee thinking they wouldn't match it, they did, United though bugger still don't want to sell him to you.

Whats the problem? One club does not want to sell a very good player to help their most hated rival. The player is under contract and as such United own him so they have the say on who they sell and don't sell him to.

Again forgive me if that all sounds too simple, i'm possibly missing lots of info on the situation but to me it smacks of Liverpool needing to get over themselves. Your rival doesn't want to sell you a player, tuff luck, get over it, move on.

Mitch Connor

even if it is all about a first team spot - all that says to me is he doesn't have the balls to fight for a place in the team. the jerk.

Mitch Connor

iregk wrote:

Forgive me if this sounds somewhat lacking in advice on the situation. The truth is I don't really know anything about this transfer saga, it doesn't involve my club so up to now I couldn't care less.

My point though is, whats the problem here? Liverpool made an inquiry, United set a fee thinking they wouldn't match it, they did, United though bugger still don't want to sell him to you.

Whats the problem? One club does not want to sell a very good player to help their most hated rival. The player is under contract and as such United own him so they have the say on who they sell and don't sell him to.

Again forgive me if that all sounds too simple, i'm possibly missing lots of info on the situation but to me it smacks of Liverpool needing to get over themselves. Your rival doesn't want to sell you a player, tuff luck, get over it, move on.

Heinze has a letter stating that he would be sold for a particular price. He claims it is, in effect, a minimum fee release clause and he can sign for any club that offer that price. United claim it is not a minimum fee release clause and further say that they advised Heinze and his agent that he would not be sold to Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool.

zing

iregk wrote:

Again forgive me if that all sounds too simple, i'm possibly missing lots of info on the situation but to me it smacks of Liverpool needing to get over themselves. Your rival doesn't want to sell you a player, tuff luck, get over it, move on.

Liverpool made an offer and it was rejected. However Heinze still wants out of his contract and believes he should be allowed to move to Liverpool. Liverpool's involvement now is basically sitting back and watching what the PL decided in relation to Heinze's contract, that mysterious letter from Gill and whatever other 'evidence' which may be presented. There's nothing to get over - both parties (Utd & Heinze that is) believe they have strong cases or this wouldn't be going as far as it is. Liverpool also believe Heinze has a strong case which is why they're happy to see how it pans out before they move on.

Mikeyt086

Tauren wrote:

even if it is all about a first team spot - all that says to me is he doesn't have the balls to fight for a place in the team. the jerk.

Exactly, he doesnt have the hunger Evra has for football, and if he would rather move team than stick it out then let him go. Fact is he was awful last season and he lost his place, then he is too lazy to get it back.

Liverpool can have him for all i care. How is he supposed to pull on that United shirt and play for the fans ever again? He cant, Ferguson saying he has a future at the club was just for the press, the boy is gone no matter what.

Mr Alan

He doesn't have the hunger Evra has for football because he wants to move to a different team? You'd wanna get a grip mate. Slate him for wanting to move to a rival, not for wanting to move club. Most players of his age would be the exact same.

Heinze is mad about football, remember reading something a while ago, before all the Liverpool talk began, where it mentioned the fact that he played for like 3 years without a proper summer break due to Olympics, World Cup and Copa America, when asked did he not need a break, he just said that he loved football and there was plenty of time for a break when his career was over (Maybe one of the mancs who use the forum can clear up exactly wat i mean, they'd have a better idea than me).

You think if Utd had signed Gareth Bale, or an established LB, Evra wouldn't want out? Players want to play, main thing.

Mitch Connor

So why hasn't Evra thrown his toys out of the pram? Heinze started most of the important games last aseason when he was fit - including the FA Cup final. Did Evra demand a transfer because he wasn't first choice? No, cause he knows if you want to play for a succesful club you have to compete for your place int he team, and seemingly unlike Heinze he LOVES the fact he plays for United - first thing he asked Neville was where is the nearest church, so he could go thank God for the wonderful oppertunity of playing for Man United.

PHB

Seems to me like he is moving because of his hunger to play football.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

Seems to me like he is moving because of his hunger to play football.

Why not use that hunger to actually fight for his place in the team, the place he had over Evra in the big games last season.

PHB

Cause Heinze wants to play as a CB, but can't get that spot at United. Furthermore he knows he is weak going forward, and can't compete with Evra in that regard. Maybe he doesn't think he is better than Evra? Maybe he hasn't deluded himself and knows it's time to move on?

Mr Alan

Don't think thats really the case anymore. Wanted to play CB when he was playing there for Argentina i thought? Now he plays LB for them so I'd imagine he'd be content to be LB and provide cover for CB.

Evra is definatly stronger going forward, but defensively i still think Heinze is stronger. Think Evra is over-rated by most Utd fans, good player, but hasn't ever blown me away.

PHB

Heinze is not strong in defence, he lacks pace, which gets him caught out. Not only that, but he often overcommits, which is a absolute crime at CB, but can be covered for at LB. It's the reason Fergie won't play in at CB. That said, I think he'll be a great player for Liverpool if he was to go there, but I'd still be very surprised if he did, especially with Lyon interested.

Mr Alan

Yea i think Lyon's interest has come at just the right time for Utd, still hope he ends up with us though.

if given a choice, i wonder if he'd pick us just to piss off Ferguson?

PHB

I don't think he dislikes Ferguson, and a choice between Lyon and Liverpool would be quite tough, especially since Lyon have stated that they want him as a CB.

LostinBlanch

We'll see how much Lyon offer. I wouldn't put it past them to put in a lower bid. I'd still accept it though!

zing

LostinBlanch wrote:

We'll see how much Lyon offer. I wouldn't put it past them to put in a lower bid. I'd still accept it though!

But will Heinze accept such a move ?

None of us know why he wants to move from Utd but the indications are that he does want to move to LFC. Why is anyone's guess and sod all point speculating about it.

SteM

For such a class left back isn't it strange that more top teams haven't declared their interest in him? I think most clubs see that he's not the player he was before his injury at United. Silvestre must be as happy as a pig in s**t with this summers developments.

Devious

Does anyone here actually believe Heinze would get more games at Liverpool than United? (before all this started of course). Who would be dropped?

Mitch Connor

I would put him ahead of any of the players iverpool currently play at left back bar Risse, who sometimes plays left mid anyway.

I wouldn't put him ahead of any of the first choice CBs though, he would prob be fourth choice for that position imo.

The Rooster

Tauren wrote:

I would put him ahead of any of the players iverpool currently play at left back bar Risse, who sometimes plays left mid anyway.

I wouldn't put him ahead of any of the first choice CBs though, he would prob be fourth choice for that position imo.

Heinze is a far better left back than Riise is, IMO. Unless Liverpool are playing at home to one of the crap teams in the Premiership, where its more important for the left back to be an attacking option than a good defender.

If Benitez wanted to play with 3 centre halfs then Heinze would be ideal for the left slot, Carra on the right, Agger sweeper/libero in the middle.

gucci

apparently rafa has turned his attention to getting john o'shea instead, have a look here, they were spotted outside macdonalds yesterday

Mr Alan

Tauren, think if he came, he'd be fighting with Arbeoloa and Aurelio for that spot. Don't think rafa sees JA as a left back anymore. Both Aurelio, who looked excellent before he got his injury-after taking a while to settle. and Arbeloa, who looks solid, will make it difficult for him to make the place his own if he was to come. the left sided player in a back three will be his though, and i think we could see that a bit this season

Mr Alan

Word on both Liverpool and Utd fan forums (which to be honest, i don't usually put much stock in) in that they will announce in the morning that Heinze can move to Liverpool.

As I've said all along, i hope we get him. But almost more than that, i hope that its just all put to bed asap.

p.pete

Is it true united were trying to offer heinze at a cut price to barca and madrid? that to me suggests a weak hand on their part...

I'm sure he'd add something to the squad but not too important in the scheme of things. It'd annoy the hell out of AF, so that's worth 7mil imho

GuanYin

p.pete ya big troll!!!!!

Seriously though, I honestly can't see what AF is at if he's offering him to Barca.

There seems to be a few things amiss at Old Trafford this season....

The Muppet

p.pete wrote:

Is it true united were trying to offer heinze at a cut price to barca and madrid? that to me suggests a weak hand on their part...

I'm sure he'd add something to the squad but not too important in the scheme of things. It'd annoy the hell out of AF, so that's worth 7mil imho

Apparently this all hinges on the term "Close Rivals" used in the letter, Heinzes legal Team have argued that Liverpoool do not fall into the catagory of close rivals to United, and when you think of it in terms of Premiership success they do have a valid argument.


We should know the outcome today, Personally I'd hapilly take Liverpools £7 million for him, I think United would be getting the better deal.

The Rooster

The Muppet wrote:

Apparently this all hinges on the term "Close Rivals" used in the letter

Personally I don't believe that, but hopefully they'll publish the wording of the letter(s) afterwards so we'll know the truth.

But I find it impossible to believe that United would think to include the words "close rivals" and decide not to spell out the actual club names. That would just be ludicrous.

I believe they just never thought to put in a restriction, because they were sure he'd go abroad. It was only when they heard of Liverpool's interest that they scrambled and issued a new letter and recorded a phone call.

Kimbot

Heinze has already won the premiership and he probably wants to move to Liverpool to get the champions league!! There could be many reasons why he wants to move really but he would be a great player to get for us!!

Hobart

The Muppet wrote:

Apparently this all hinges on the term "Close Rivals" used in the letter, Heinzes legal Team have argued that Liverpoool do not fall into the catagory of close rivals to United, and when you think of it in terms of Premiership success they do have a valid argument.

I seen that too on Red Cafe, be careful what you believe. It sounds like utter tosh tbh.

The Muppet wrote:

We should know the outcome today, Personally I'd hapilly take Liverpools £7 million for him, I think United would be getting the better deal.

I've also seen a lot of spin around this argument over the last few weeks, as the possibility of Heinze's move to Liverpool became more of a reality. You had SAF coming out initially and saying that there was "no way" he was going to Liverpool, and then playing the "loyalty" card as the possibility became more and more likely. By the same token you had fans on this forum asking why he would move to Liverpool when so so many other teams were in for him.

The line your dubbing out above is mainly used by those trying to save face of some sort.

Personally, I wouldn't be over keen on singing him, I'm just getting really tired of the whole spin around this saga and the complete BS from both fans and the club tbh.

The Muppet

Hobart wrote:

I seen that too on Red Cafe, be careful what you believe. It sounds like utter tosh tbh.


I've also seen a lot of spin around this argument over the last few weeks, as the possibility of Heinze's move to Liverpool became more of a reality. You had SAF coming out initially and saying that there was "no way" he was going to Liverpool, and then playing the "loyalty" card as the possibility became more and more likely. By the same token you had fans on this forum asking why he would move to Liverpool when so so many other teams were in for him.

The line your dubbing out above is mainly used by those trying to save face of some sort.

Personally, I wouldn't be over keen on singing him, I'm just getting really tired of the whole spin around this saga and the complete BS from both fans and the club tbh.

Hi *******


If you fancy doing a bit of research into my previous posts (I know you like doing that:p ) on the subject you will see that I have consistantly said that I would be happy to see him go to Liverpool as I think he has been a poor reflection of his former self since his knee injury. His recent performances do not indicate his loss of form was temporary.

IMO quick skillfull wingers will fleece him , time will tell.

Mitch Connor

I hope Heinze moves house bloody quickly if things go his way, the stinking Judas.

Hobart

The Muppet wrote:

Hi *******

Listen Muppet, if your going to try and use my first name on a public forum, at least have the cop on and decency to get it right, will you? My name is not *******.

The Muppet wrote:

If you fancy doing a bit of research into my previous posts (I know you like doing that:p ) on the subject you will see that I have consistantly said that I would be happy to see him go to Liverpool as I think he has been a poor reflection of his former self since his knee injury. His recent performances do not indicate his loss of form was temporary.

IMO quick skillfull wingers will fleece him , time will tell.

I've no real interest on doing any research on your posts, I will argue a point with you if I feel that you are wrong however. My post was not directed solely at you, the hint was in the use of the word fans.

PHB

That whole close rivals things sounds like utter bs to be honest. Meant to be a decesion today, so I guess we'll see.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

That whole close rivals things sounds like utter bs to be honest. Meant to be a decesion today, so I guess we'll see.

I can't see it going our way unfortunately, I just don't see the PL ruling in favour of us, against Heinze and Liverpool, regardless of the facts of the case.

yom 1

Tauren wrote:

I can't see it going our way unfortunately, I just don't see the PL ruling in favour of us, against Heinze and Liverpool, regardless of the facts of the case.

Why? Do Heinze and Liverpool have some sway over the PL. Of course the PL will rule on the facts of the case. Or do you think they'll do a Rob Styles and just make, as Rafa put it, an invisible decision. The fact is that if there was any doubt the Pool wouldnt still be chasing him. Thats why they might lose this hearing. You cant win everything cause your Utd

Mitch Connor

yom 1 wrote:

Why? Do Heinze and Liverpool have some sway over the PL. Of course the PL will rule on the facts of the case. Or do you think they'll do a Rob Styles and just make, as Rafa put it, an invisible decision. The fact is that if there was any doubt the Pool wouldnt still be chasing him. Thats why they might lose this hearing. You cant win everything cause your Utd

"Of course the PL will rule on the facts of the case"

LOL, comedic gold.

West Ham, Carlos Tevez, MSI, contracts.

The PL will automatically favour a player more then a club. I honestly believe if there is anyway at all for them to rule in favour of Heinze, they will do so regardless of any other facts. The fact they'd be helping liverpool out would just be a little bonus for them and the FA.

Mr Alan

Why would them helping Liverpool out be a little bonus for the PL and FA? seriously

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

Why would them helping Liverpool out be a little bonus for the PL and FA? seriously

Cause they love liverpool - especially Barwick, who is a confirmed Liverpool supporter.

They also like screwing United.

Mr Alan

you're gonna have to come up with better than, 'cause they love liverpool', i could just as easily say the same about Utd, but without backing it up-you obviously would just think i was being a biased tosser

Mitch Connor

millersangel wrote:

you're gonna have to come up with better than, 'cause they love liverpool', i could just as easily say the same about Utd, but without backing it up-you obviously would just think i was being a biased tosser

Its a whole differnt thread - and would just end up in arguments. I think Liverpool have been favoured on occasion, you don't. I'm sure we'll both move on and live our lives regardless. Though i will do so in an angrier state.