Alfa 156 or am I nuts

Waylander

alias no.9 wrote:

That could be one of the number plate bulbs blown. Had a similar problem, all the lights seemed to be working fine, then I realised there are two bulbs for the rear number plate and one was blown.

Cheers for that, will check out them bulbs.

528i

bazz26 wrote:

Oh cool another Alfa thread, haven't had one of these in ages.

I'm off to get some popcorn, nachos and beer.

I can't find these threads , what other fibs have been told about alfas ? maybe their owners should not be allowed express opinion or influence the board and ultimate buying decision of susceptible motorists, It is serious enough to warrant immediate censorship of the word 'alfa' imho.

Prospect, I won't be dragged down to the level of adolescent bickering with those compelled to exclaim the alfa ideal. The facts remain that Alfa's are dirt, and I would see more merit in a fist full of camel sh!t than the word of someone foolish enough to have owned one.

Waylander

528i wrote:

I can't find these threads , what other fibs have been told about alfas ? maybe their owners should not be allowed express opinion or influence the board and ultimate buying decision of susceptible motorists, It is serious enough to warrant immediate censorship of the word 'alfa' imho.

Prospect, I won't be dragged down to the level of adolescent bickering with those compelled to exclaim the alfa ideal. The facts remain that Alfa's are dirt, and I would see more merit in a fist full of camel sh!t than the word of someone foolish enough to have owned one.

You are obviously correct, why should the only people with direct experience of the op's question be allowed to respond, that would be madness, and may provide the original poster with some correct accurate information. Cant be having that!!!!:rolleyes:

Anan1

528i wrote:

I do not need to be subjected to alfa ownership in order to make an informed decision on them or their appalling reliability record

Actually, you do. We have owned Alfas, and are speaking from experience. You haven't, and are merely repeating the views of others.

prospect

528i wrote:

Prospect, I won't be dragged down to the level of adolescent bickering with those compelled to exclaim the alfa ideal. The facts remain that Alfa's are dirt, and I would see more merit in a fist full of camel sh!t than the word of someone foolish enough to have owned one.

You see, that is where the problem with your side of the debate falls flat on its face,

No person arguing the case here for Alfa has said that they are ideal. In fact, every alfa owner is happy to admit that the cars have faults, and that they MUST be carefully maintained and serviced.

You however are trying to imply German cars are virtually trouble free, and that 100% of Alfas (and probably Fiats) ever made are 100% certainly to suffer a major failure.

Please don't confuse the debate any further than you have already, so for the record, my POV is as follows:

Older Alfas need to be carefully maintained and if so are as unlikely as any car to cause hassle.
Newer and Diesel Alfas need less attention and are as well built and reliable as other more expensive.
BMW & Audi are as likely to cause trouble as any car, and charge you more for the privalege.
Merc, same as BMW & Audi, except even less relaible.
VW are just bland and overpriced.

I am one of the foolish people who owned one. I had it for a 18 months until an expanding family forced me to get a bigger car. In that year it had to have a pipe on the turbo replaced which was causing the catastrophic problem of a slight whistle under acceleration. This was fixed under warranty. The car depreciated €1100 in the 18 months I owned it. I can't see much foolishness in that.

528i

Anan1 wrote:

Actually, you do. We have owned Alfas, and are speaking from experience. You haven't, and are merely repeating the views of others.

At the risk of repeating myself, those are the explicit views of motoring 'experts' along with thousands of owners whom responded to various customer satisfaction surveys, and independent breakdown recovery outfits & warranty providers, I think I'd take their word on the matter rather than two people 'speaking from experience' in here.

We're going full circle here again so lets not protract things any further, I don't care what you've done or what you've experienced in your particular instance Prospect, I'm giving a broader outlook on the marque for the benefit of the original poster and others just like him, so we can agree there are two camps here, namely ;

camp 1/ alfas are rubbish - wouldn't touch with a barge pole for all the reasons 528i correctly asserted above
camp 2/ I bought one for peanuts and I've got my head stuck firmly in the sand ever since

prospect

528i wrote:

those are the explicit views of motoring 'experts' along with thousands of owners whom responded to various customer satisfaction surveys,
...
....
...

I don't care what you've done or what you've experienced in your particular instance Prospect

Is this not the BIGGEST contradiction EVER!.. :rolleyes:

Your argument is based (you say) on ownership opinion, yet you don't care to hear my ownership opinion (or that of the many other owners on here)...

Take of them blinkers buddy .... ....

528i

prospect wrote:

Is this not the BIGGEST contradiction EVER!..

Why should I compare thousands of opinion with your single specific instance & experience ? That's why polls & votes exist, to get a broad general consensus of opinion, and that opinion in this instance is that Alfa's are muck, approach with caution etc. only difference being this is substantiated by other professionals in the field also and those charged with breakdown recoveries etc.. Apologies if this seems dismissive and lends little weight to both you and your opinion, but that's part & parcel of the whole alfa experience and nobody forced you to buy one.

prospect

528i wrote:

Why should I compare thousands of opinion with your single specific instance & experience ? That's why polls & votes exist, to get a broad general consensus of opinion, and that opinion in this instance is that Alfa's are muck, approach with caution etc. only difference being this is substantiated by other professionals in the field also and those charged with breakdown recoveries etc.. Apologies if this seems dismissive and lends little weight to both you and your opinion, but that's part & parcel of the whole alfa experience and nobody forced you to buy one.

`
You are making less sense as you go along??? I never said anyone asked me to buy one, and I will ahppily buy more when they suit my family needs.

As for your comments about motoring experts, I urge you to read this column in full:
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2007/08/01/1.html

Although, going on your attitude so far, you will probably not care what he says either, because it doesn't agree with your misinformed opinion.

528i

The Alfa Brera @ €50,000 is a far cry from this man's budget of €5k, get real and try to be constructive rather than heading off on various tangents of desperation.

prospect

To the OP,

Ignore the rubbish being spout here,

As said by many owners and expereinced Alfa people here (i.e. Those who actually know what they are talking about) find one that has a full and regular maintenance history. Have it checked by a specialist (e.g. Gerry Campbell) and if you buy it keep to a rigorous maintenance schedule.

Alfas are full of heart and historym which is why our Germanic Fanboys feelso threatened by them and feel the need to coninually harp on about a less than perfect reliability history. But, if you are like me, reliability is only one factor in the decision of which car to buy.

Waylander

528i wrote:

The Alfa Brera @ €50,000 is a far cry from this man's budget of €5k, get real and try to be constructive rather than heading off on various tangents of desperation.

I refer you to post 61 + 64 of this thread, which you seem to have studiously avoided replying to!

prospect

528i wrote:

The Alfa Brera @ €50,000 is a far cry from this man's budget of €5k, get real and try to be constructive rather than heading off on various tangents of desperation.

But it is an Alfa, and you said they are all crap and based this on the opinion of motoring 'experts'. I am just pointing out another major flaw in your twisted logic.


Listen, you are obviously a blinkered BMW fanboy, and I actually find it rather amusing that people like you feel the need to jump in on Alfa threads and talk your crap. It must be a sign of insecurity. Also, why is it always the BMW fans than compare Alfa and BMW? They are in different price ranges and different worlds according to you and yours, why not jump into the Kia Magentis threads also (no offence to any KIA drivers)

I often see BMW threads here, but don't feel the need to jump in and point out the details of their dodgy styling, bland interiors, poor spec levels, overpriced range, often underpowered models and their less than exemplary reliability.

Here is one more little tit-bit for you:
Interestingly this is from German TV;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek

GTC

prospect wrote:

To the OP,

Ignore the rubbish being spout here,

As said by many owners and expereinced Alfa people here (i.e. Those who actually know what they are talking about) find one that has a full and regular maintenance history. Have it checked by a specialist (e.g. Gerry Campbell) and if you buy it keep to a rigorous maintenance schedule.

Alfas are full of heart and historym which is why our Germanic Fanboys feelso threatened by them and feel the need to coninually harp on about a less than perfect reliability history. But, if you are like me, reliability is only one factor in the decision of which car to buy.

If I may post here (a dangerous yet implicitly required action on my part), we have had 18 Alfa Romeos in my time in the Traffic Corps.

When an Alfa is working (When is the operative word) it is a sheer masterpiece, lovely car to drive. Handling is right up there with the Germans.

When an Alfa is not working, its catastrophic. There are at least 7 events in my mind where I nearly killed myself because of those stupid cars. We had 2.5 V6s, top of the range, but couldn't trust them an inch. Out of the 5 or 6 around the place, at least 3 at a time were in the garage, wasting money.

Don't get me wrong, an Alfa Romeo is a great drive, but God, they're unreliable. With 5k you do a whole lot better, go japanese, say a Mazda Xedos V6 or a Lexus GS300 at the top end.

From experience, avoid anything European, bar Volvo, we never had any. The BMW 540 we pootle around in at the moment has seen 9 months service in 15 months of being in the job. Its been in the shop that often!

Gaaaaa.

prospect

GTC wrote:

If I may post here (a dangerous yet implicitly required action on my part), we have had 18 Alfa Romeos in my time in the Traffic Corps.

When an Alfa is working (When is the operative word) it is a sheer masterpiece, lovely car to drive. Handling is right up there with the Germans.

When an Alfa is not working, its catastrophic. There are at least 7 events in my mind where I nearly killed myself because of those stupid cars. We had 2.5 V6s, top of the range, but couldn't trust them an inch. Out of the 5 or 6 around the place, at least 3 at a time were in the garage, wasting money.

Don't get me wrong, an Alfa Romeo is a great drive, but God, they're unreliable. With 5k you do a whole lot better, go japanese, say a Mazda Xedos V6 or a Lexus GS300 at the top end.

From experience, avoid anything European, bar Volvo, we never had any. The BMW 540 we pootle around in at the moment has seen 9 months service in 15 months of being in the job. Its been in the shop that often!

Gaaaaa.

An informed opinion is always welcomed by me.

Marcus.Aurelius

I would agree with Prospect. If you really like Alfas, get your potential motor well checked out, and maintain it well. I would imagine that a well maintained Alfa should present little difficulty if you know what to watch out for.

528i

Waylander wrote:

I refer you to post 61 + 64 of this thread, which you seem to have studiously avoided replying to!

I haven't got time to respond to every whim from the alfa'rati on here, so do tell us your story, wait; you've got an alfasud and its been rigorously maintained and practically faultless since you locked it inside a garage ? move along now, next.

I have not saw fit to compare uberpanzers with Italian junk Prospect, in fact I specifically asked that they not even be mentioned in this thread for comparison. Lancias & Fiats were ok if I remember correctly, now stop trying to pick holes in the rock hard exterior and enviable reputation of the Bavarian mile muncher.

There, you've heard it from the force themselves, 18 Alfa's would require 18 full-time mechanics

whippet

528i .. I remember your blinkered uberpanzer rants from motornet.ie years back.

Nothing has changed .. I own a BMW everything else isn't worthy!! it got boring back then and to behonest it still is.

10, 15 years ago a beemer was probably a status symbol and now it the wheels of every type of road users from skanager me banger types in E36 316's to over weight golf ball bashers.

Everything about the brand has been diluted, but as far as I remember you were driving an M5, which is an outstanding motor and attracts plenty of kudos from most motoring folk, it's the contempt that a massive percentage of BMW drivers like yourself hold for every other marque which really makes the rest of us laugh at your blinkered rants!!

astraboy

528, with all respect, will you stop blabbering on about golfs? The guy did not ask what it would be like to own a Golf, he asked about an Alfa 156. Make your point and shut up about it, we don't all want to be driving around in snoremobiles like corollas and golfs. And for the record, Golfs are not a car I have anything against(actually leasing one here in the US for the summer) however if you have nothing constructive to say other then your constant put downs of alfas and peoples opinons then go away and start your own thread.


As for myself, I have no experience with Alfa 156's but I have looked into buying one. They are a smashing looking car, a real sense of style about them. Far more exciting then a regular saloon. As people have said, service history a must.

Waylander

528i wrote:

I haven't got time to respond to every whim from the alfa'rati on here, so do tell us your story, wait; you've got an alfasud and its been rigorously maintained and practically faultless since you locked it inside a garage ? move along now, next.

I have not saw fit to compare uberpanzers with Italian junk Prospect, in fact I specifically asked that they not even be mentioned in this thread for comparison. Lancias & Fiats were ok if I remember correctly, now stop trying to pick holes in the rock hard exterior and enviable reputation of the Bavarian mile muncher.

There, you've heard it from the force themselves, 18 Alfa's would require 18 full-time mechanics

A very convenient way of replying to a post that you simply have no arguement against. Your posts are nonsensicle. GTC's post is fine, he is speaking from personal experience, you on the other hand are just mouthing off about a topic that by your own admission you are not qualified to comment on. Nothing worse than a mouthpiece who claims to be an expert!

528i

astraboy wrote:

528, with all respect, will you stop blabbering on about golfs? The guy did not ask what it would be like to own a Golf, he asked about an Alfa 156

The original question was, quote "Any other cars to be recommended in this price range?", can you understand English or were you brought up in the Bronx over there ?

Sorry Waylander, I've been thru the whole "qualified to comment" discussion already, can everybody go back and read the topic once more as it saves repetition and going round in circles once again.

Try to remain focused with suggestions and helpful comments rather than misinformed conjectures and blathering on about something you barely know anything about please.

Thanks.

Waylander

528i wrote:

I haven't got time to respond to every whim from the alfa'rati on here, so do tell us your story, wait; you've got an alfasud and its been rigorously maintained and practically faultless since you locked it inside a garage ? move along now, next.

I have not saw fit to compare uberpanzers with Italian junk Prospect, in fact I specifically asked that they not even be mentioned in this thread for comparison. Lancias & Fiats were ok if I remember correctly, now stop trying to pick holes in the rock hard exterior and enviable reputation of the Bavarian mile muncher.

There, you've heard it from the force themselves, 18 Alfa's would require 18 full-time mechanics

My story is clearly and concisely explained in post 56 of this thread. You may have been through the qualified to discuss point already, but your answer is weak. Basically it seems to be anybody who disagrees with you is a muppet, and your opinion is always right. I am not sure I entirely agree with that viewpoint!

I also find it ironic that people with direct experience of Alfas are the ones making misinformed conjectures, while your points, having never owned an alfa are all relelvant and accurate.

alias no.9

528i wrote:

Can you read ?, I was referring to the Volkswagen Golf Mk III from 1992 - 1997, so what you've quoted is irrelevant nonsense.

The point of the quote was to show that honest john has a list as long as your arm about lots of cars. The reason for choosing the mkIV is that it was a contemporary of the 156 in terms of when it was manufactured/sold new and honest johns info is based mostly on user input.
Honest John hasn't got a huge ammount of info on older cars in general, with a similar volume, both good and bad, on the MkIII golf manufactured from 91 to 97 as it does on cars contemporary to it such as the MkI Opel Astra, MkI Renauls Clio, Mk V Escort, citroen ZX and oh yeah, alfa 155, the list goes on. When you look at newer models there is much more detail but that's based as much on the popularity of the honest john website at a time when a particular model was contemporary. Are you really going to tell me that the escort was a better car than the focus based on the fact that there's less bad written about it on honest john?

astraboy

528i wrote:

The original question was, quote "Any other cars to be recommended in this price range?", can you understand English or were you brought up in the Bronx over there ?

Sorry Waylander, I've been thru the whole "qualified to comment" discussion already, can everybody go back and read the topic once more as it saves repetition and going round in circles once again.

Try to remain focused with suggestions and helpful comments rather than misinformed conjectures and blathering on about something you barely know anything about please.

Thanks.

I'm from Cork you tool, so while would love to engage you in a petty slagging match and allow you to display how highly intelligent you are and what a great knowlegde you have about cars, how about we keep this on topic? The golf is in the price range, but you keep bringing it up. You made your point 3 pages ago, all you have done since is put down anyone that disagrees that you barviarian motor is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Anyway, a golf is a hatch, hardly what the op is looking for when he asked about a 156, yes a SALOON(or estate). If he asked about a 147, maybe you would be on the money. Other wise please go back to the BMWowners site where ye can stimulate each other, and the rest of us adults can go back and have a decent, constructive discussion about the pros and cons of alfa 156 ownership. :rolleyes:

kyote00

An extract from honestjohns regarding E39s (to 2003)

What's Bad
Have been quibbles about build quality and paint. Dodgy door seals. Wipers set for LHD. Old 2.5 litre diesel not significantly more economical than petrol, so best avoided. V8s not worth the extra. 2.8iSE and newer 3.0iSE is as far as you need to go. Franchised dealers know how to charge. Electrical niggles reported, including faults with ventilation and airconditining system, airbags, park distance control. Engine gasket leaks. Problem with combined navigation and telephone system of facelift E39 from Y2k. Excess rear tyre wear can cause Steptronic autoboxes to stick in a lower gear after ascending an incline. M5s come with no emergency wheel, but 17" space savers for 3-Series can be modified to fit.

Only 89% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. 1995-1997 petrol rates average for breakdowns and faults, poor for problems; 1998-2000 petrol rated average for breakdowns and problems, poor for faults in 2003 Which survey. Replaced by E60 October 2003, but E39 Touring continued for 9 months.
What to Watch Out For
Build date from 2001 shown on engine compartment label on top of front nearside wheelarch.

Repaired accident damage.

Uneven rear tyre wear and clonks from the rear can be caused by worn rear suspension bushes.

Reports of repeated thermostat problems blowing radiators on older E39s.

Flat spots of and lack of power or M47 and M57 diesels due to a known problem with the wire mesh air mass sensor. When replaced, must reprogramme ECU to match new meter. Lack of power also caused by cracked inlet manifolds.

Misfires of M47/M57 caused by failed injectors.

Turbo trouble with early 530s caused by ECU programme allowing higher boost than safe for turbo. Cured by replacing turbo, reprogramming ECU and thoroughly cleaning turbo inlet manifold and pipework because a blockage can cause the engine to run on its sump oil and self-destruct.

If M54 engine management light comes on could be faulty throttle housing plug on later cars (requiring new engine wiring loom) or split crankcase breather hose or split diaphragm in cyclone separator on earlier cars.

Coolant loss and overheating of M62 engine could be due to failed water pump, failed valley gasket under inlet manifold or cracked/porous block. 17" wheels easily damaged on inner rim. Brake pipe corrosion in area over fuel tank becoming common. Older cars plagued by electrical problems: failing lcds, etc.

M52 520i six 523i six, 528i six to September 1998 may suffer premature bore wear due to high amounts of sulphur in some UK petrol. Solved by replacement block with steel-lined bores on sixes. Production from September 1998 fitted with 'EU3' steel-lined bores. (No such problems with newer 525i and 530i six cylinder engines, and no problems with M62 V8s in the E39). If buying a 6 cylinder car, particularly a 523i, from a dealer insist on a new MOT because the emissions test will show up potentially expensive catalytic converter failure.

Check took kit is all there.

Service light indicator can easily be re-set, so a paid invoice is the only guarantee of a recent service.

General Warning about Automatic Transmissions: Many BMWs have "sealed for life" automatic transmissions. Regardless of whether you have a full BMW service history, the dealer will never change the auto fluid. Many of these boxes are failing around the 120-150k mark - often well outside of warranty and to a cost of £3.5k plus VAT. A good independent or automatic transmission specialist can and will change the fluid for you (and any good BMW independents will recommend this anyway). This is commonplace in the US and means the 'box should last the life of the car rather than being the cause of it being written off. General advice is ensure the fluid is flushed out every 60k or more preferably at each Inspection II. However, one specialist says autoboxes do not take well to being drained and having their ATF replaced.
Recalls
15/12/1999: (E39 built Sept/Oct 1999): brake light switch may fail leading to brake lights flickering or failing and switch overheating. New switches to be fitted. 9/11/2001: Cars built 28/9/2001 to 24/10/2001 with Continental tyres may have cuts in the tyres which can lead to blowouts. 16/11/2001: 5-Series diesels and V8s built 11/11/2000 - 30/9/2001 recalled because fault with radiator fan motor could lead electrics to overload, fan motor to fail and a small electrical fire to result. w/e 23/2/2002: recall in Germany for all models fitted with Conti Eco Contact and Sport Contact 205/55 R16 and 225/55 R16 tyres due to a pressure problem. 22-2-02 Bearing in front strut top mountings may be displaced if car is jacked up. 2023 cars affected. 1-11-3003: on 8,183 cars microprocessor in airbag control unit could develop a fault leading to airbag going off when ignition key is turned. Replace with re-coded unit.

kyote00

hehe, check out where the BMW 5 series come in the reliability index ....

(93 out of 100 for the impatient...)

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=311

528i

astraboy wrote:

I'm from Cork

That explains it then.

The rest of your post is basically regurgitated excerpts from my contributions above, only with poor prose, bad grammar and some spelling mistakes, but thank you for you value input nonetheless 'astraboy'.

Alias, I'm too bored to read through all that but I picked out 'contemporary' as it such a nice word, and don't get me started on opels and fords.

Waylander, I'm never said anyone 'who disagrees' is a muppet rather 'anyone who buys an Alfa' could be, there's a discernible difference and common sense will usually prevail.

kyote00, thanks again for another meaningless and irrelevant contribution, start a new topic on the BMW 5-series if you must bicker, or better yet, how about staying quiet for a while and maybe going to clean your room instead.

Back on topic, competitors to the Alfa 156 ;

1/ Golf - sturdy, reliable, german.
2/ ??? astro, escort, almera ? yuk
3/ fiat tipo or whatever those things are called
4/ corolla - reliable, bit poxy though
5/ civic - peeps would think ur a boyracing 'tard
6/ peugeot whatever - just as bad as alfas
7/ renault 19 etc. - probably as bad

For anyone of sound mind and level-headed reasoning, there aren't many options aside from a golf or corolla in that category, maybe a saab something or a 190E but they're trying too hard to be BMWs also.

astraboy

You clearly have very entrenched opinions. If you think golfs are so bloody great why do you not own one? To be honest I would never consider a golf as a competitor to a 156. A 1.4/1.6 hatch against a 1.8/2.0 saloon? A bora/passat perhaps. Also, a car like the mondeo/opel vectra would be in the same class, ie a family saloon car. The OP could also get a 316/318 of older variant for their budget depending on what year 156 they were going for.

O, and sweeping statements about Alfa owners are foolish to say the least.

You said a fiat tipo/renault 19 would be competitors to the Alfa 156. Behave would ya. The renault 19 is a decade older then the 156, as is the tipo. These are cars that can be had for 800 euro. Your looking at 4-5K for a 156 of the 99/01 range last time I looked.

As for your comment; "how about staying quiet for a while and maybe going to clean your room instead." Take some of your own advice. Amazing how people get very very brave and cocky when they are behind a PC........:rolleyes:

redman

Ignore 528i he is only winding every one up.

Biro

Back on topic, competitors to the Alfa 156 ;

1/ Golf - sturdy, reliable, german.
2/ ??? astro, escort, almera ? yuk
3/ fiat tipo or whatever those things are called
4/ corolla - reliable, bit poxy though
5/ civic - peeps would think ur a boyracing 'tard
6/ peugeot whatever - just as bad as alfas
7/ renault 19 etc. - probably as bad

That sums your knowledge up. Golfs, Astra's, Corolla's, etc... all competitors to the 147, not the 156.
On point one there, sturdy, reliable... Mk 3 golf... so is a coffin, and a coffin is more desirable and exciting than a mk3 golf!
Alfa arguement aside, The most reliable pair you'll find are the corolla and civic. Anyone who argues is just wrong. The civic is better looking with better handling, more reliable, quicker and better engine, and less bone shattering over bumps than the golf. Better value too. If you get the saloon it's not chavvy looking.
Or get the Accord saloon. Cheap to buy, excellent car.
Or take a chance on the Alfa.