Hyundai Accent Engine Died after 2000miles Garage at fault?

COLMCS

Hi,

My girlfriend bought a 02 Hyundai Accent 5 months ago from a major meath car dealer, it had 44000 miles on the clock, it made a rattling sound two days ago, she pulled over and tried to restart it but failed to do so. Got a reputable mechanic to look at it, he said the engine is dead and needs to be replaced. It has 46000miles on it now, and the dealer does not want to know says its not their problem. On the invoice it said NCT guaranteed, which she did not get to do as the car got little use due to ill health. Has she any sort of come back??? I would expect to get more than 2000 miles from a car bought from a garage!!!

Thanks for any help.

Col

Seth Brundle

Was there a (written) warranty given with the car and if so for how long?
In what way is the engine 'dead'?

2stageturbo

post more details if you need advice

COLMCS

Hi Kbannon,

All that was on the invoice was Nct guaranteed within two months. They had said it had been serviced which appears not to be the case. The mechanic said it was leaking water and had no oil in it, which i presume is what done the damage to the engine and why it needs to be replaced.

Thanks

Col

Anan1

COLMCS wrote:

Hi Kbannon,

All that was on the invoice was Nct guaranteed within two months. They had said it had been serviced which appears not to be the case. The mechanic said it was leaking water and had no oil in it, which i presume is what done the damage to the engine and why it needs to be replaced.

Thanks

Col

Had your g/f been checking fluids regularly? Oil starvation will kill an engine almost immediately.

COLMCS

Hi Anan1,

No she didnt check the oil, we where told it had a service so we took them at their word, that a service would include the oil being changed. oil light didnt light up either though...

It was also sold without an Nct cert can they legally do that?

testicle

You do know you're supposed to check oil levels every 1000 miles???

AlanD

My view would be that the garage is in the clear unless you got a warranty from the garage as stated above. Being able to pass the NCT within 2 months isn't much of a guarantee. The NCT wouldn't pick up an empty oil sump anyway.

Every owner of every car has a responsibility to ensure the car has enough fluids. Thing is 90% of car owners have no idea what to look for and noone tells them either.

The garage is not responsible for what happens to the car they sell if the owner is in any way negligent. I'm not accusing your girlfriend of being purposely negligent, but that's the way it works. If she didn't know what to look for, how would she know, or how would you know for that matter?

If an independent mechanic can pinpoint something that actually would be the garage's fault, then you might have a case, but it's unlikely. Does Hyundai not have a very long manufacturer's warranty? might be worth checking out.

If car was serviced, look for service sheet to say how much oil was put in. Thing is you might get something, but the chances are slim. My money would be on the garage coming out of this clean.

Spud83

AlanD wrote:

Every owner of every car has a responsibility to ensure the car has enough fluids. Thing is 90% of car owners have no idea what to look for and noone tells them either.

Slightly off topic but hope somebody can give me a quick answer. Is it part of the test that you have demonstrate basic knowledge of your engine such where the different fluids go in, your battery connectors etc. At least that’s what my instructor tolded/showed me when I was getting lessons.

Del2005

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Slightly off topic but hope somebody can give me a quick answer. Is it part of the test that you have demonstrate basic knowledge of your engine such where the different fluids go in, your battery connectors etc. At least that’s what my instructor tolded/showed me when I was getting lessons.

Yes, but it only came in the last year or so.

AlanAhern

@ the OP: Check if have a document saying warranty for engine and gearbox. In fairness though, what do expect when you dont check your level often. i heard one story where a girl had a car that seized up (brand new something or other) after two years of driving it it went bang. when asked when it was last serviced she said "what do you mean?, its only two years old"!!!!! i laughed my ass off at that one!!!

carveone

Note that you are protected by the Sale of Goods act as you are "buying a car for your personal use from a person whose normal business it is to sell cars". To quote from the citizensinformation website: "As a consumer you have the same rights if you buy an item second hand as if it is new. In this case if you find a fault with the car after you have bought it the dealer is the person who must set matters right."

Few people realise for example that if a car blows up within a year of purchase from a dealer, then it can be described as "not fit for use". Warranty is implied and no dealer can nullify your statutory rights by saying otherwise.

The question is whether your girlfriend could be described as negligent in her maintenance of the car. I can't say - maybe the mechanic could give you an idea of how the situation arose. I will say that 2000 miles is sod all distance but leaking coolant will toast your car awfully fast. My mother (well, her car) blew a head gasket in the 3 miles from her house to mine. If the car was supplied with a leaking radiator you may have a case.

Note that the temperature gauge on a car reads coolant temp not oil temp. A gauge may show Cool when there's no coolant. I really wish manufacturers would have a warning light for "Coolant level". My Dad's 626 has a warning light for "washer fluid level". Not very useful except in Canada.

Vinnie K

Did it pass the NCT within 2 months? They would have spotted if it was leaking oil or water then. If it passed the test then id say you dont have a leg to stand on, all the garage have to say is they sold you a car of merchatable(spelling) quality and the NCT proved that. Did you not ask about a warranty when you were buying it?? Ring consumer affairs to get all the proper answers you need. Hyundai's are common enough to burn alot of oil, you had the car 5mts and never checked the levels??

Edit: Re read your post, nct not done!!

Anan1

carveone wrote:

Few people realise for example that if a car blows up within a year of purchase from a dealer, then it can be described as "not fit for use". Warranty is implied and no dealer can nullify your statutory rights by saying otherwise.

The question is whether your girlfriend could be described as negligent in her maintenance of the car.

Most owners handbooks recommend checking fluids regularly enough that anything short of catastrophic oil or coolant loss can be detected before the engine is destroyed. The OP's g/f went five months without checking fluids. I do sympathise, many people do it and with many cars one could get away with it. That said, it's quite clearly negligence.

iblis

I'm sorry to jump on the bandwagon here, but oil in particular should be checked weekly, if not daily. Oil burns off in some cars. There may not be a leak or mechanical fault.

The oil pressure warning light found on all cars (red one) is not to be used to monitor your oil level. If it comes on your engine is already destroyed.

If you have the yellow oil level warning light, it will give you a chance in most cases to top up. But it's not something to be relied on. By the time you reach a garage you could have the red one on, if you make it.

If the problem is you ran out of oil, then there is no comeback with the dealer. They are not required to provide a warranty against driver negligence. The same if you buy a tv, then drop it, the shop is not required to replace it.

Sorry

carveone

Anan1 wrote:

The OP's g/f went five months without checking fluids. I do sympathise, many people do it and with many cars one could get away with it. That said, it's quite clearly negligence.

Erm. Good post Anan. It's hard to argue with that. Maybe the OP could chalk it up to bitter experience? No one was injured. Your wallet is probably the worse for it but I think all of us here have made expensive mistakes. You'll live Doesn't make it any easier though

Is it part of the test that you have demonstrate basic knowledge of your engine such where the different fluids go in, your battery connectors etc....
Yes, but it only came in the last year or so.

About time! I know most here are probably technical minded but I see terrifying things in people's cars.
"Are air filters supposed to look like that?"
"What, black and dripping? Ummmm. No."

I guess I learnt to pamper my car from living in Canada. If you're driving in a remote area, a car breakdown + being unprepared = being found in the spring thaw.

You know, as an aside - there's a market for the equivalent of Pennzoil in this country. (I apologise in advance if I missed someone who does it already) Quick 10 minute oil change + a bunch of safety and level checks for sod all money. Can't remember what Pennzoil charged. $40 or something and I didn't even have to get out of my car. Drive through bank for money then drive through Tim Hortons for coffee followed by drive through Pennzoil for oil change. Man, I don't understand why Canadians aren't fat too...

Conor.

maidhc

iblis wrote:

I'm sorry to jump on the bandwagon here, but oil in particular should be checked weekly, if not daily. Oil burns off in some cars. There may not be a leak or mechanical fault.

Maybe it is just me, but if I had a car that was burning so much oil, and so unreliable that it could empty the sump in less than a few weeks i'd dump it like a hot potato.

I didn't check the oil in my mondeo in the past 5k. Even though the car has 200k up it had only burnt a little. Even though I'd hazard a guess I own more internal combustion engines than most here (probably 7-8 in daily use between the tractors and cars), I would never check them more than every few months. Anything that burns oil does so consistently... and if something leaks then you see a big black puddle.

iblis wrote:

If the problem is you ran out of oil, then there is no comeback with the dealer. They are not required to provide a warranty against driver negligence. The same if you buy a tv, then drop it, the shop is not required to replace it.
(

Where did the oil go. A healthy engine will not empty the sump in 2k miles.

One thing that happened me before was I did not sufficiently tighten an oil filter and it loosened. I spotted the problem (drips on the driveway) before it became an issue, but if a garage had serviced the car and if the engine seized then I would have a decent claim.

In short. Ordinary people are not expected to know much about cars, their engines, or what to do with them. That is why manufacturers fit service indicators...e.g. a "I need a service, so get off your behind and get me to a garage" light.

Anan1

maidhc - You do have a point, in the sense that i've had cars that went 12,000 miles between services without any movement in the oil level on the dipstick. Coming from a car like that, it's very easy to forget fluid checks altogether. But - and here's the rub - it's still negligence. The manufacturers include frequent fluid checks in the handbook for two reasons - to protect themselves, and to protect the car. Ordinary people are, contrary to your assertion, expected to do this. Most of the time, they will get away with not doing this. Some of the time, though..

iblis

maidhc wrote:

Maybe it is just me, but if I had a car that was burning so much oil, and so unreliable that it could empty the sump in less than a few weeks i'd dump it like a hot potato.

It was 5 months. And from below you wouldn't until it had seized lol.

maidhc wrote:

I didn't check the oil in my mondeo in the past 5k. Even though the car has 200k up it had only burnt a little. Even though I'd hazard a guess I own more internal combustion engines than most here (probably 7-8 in daily use between the tractors and cars), I would never check them more than every few months. Anything that burns oil does so consistently... and if something leaks then you see a big black puddle.

I don't think it's a good idea to suggest not checking your oil is ok. That's really not helpful...

maidhc wrote:

Where did the oil go. A healthy engine will not empty the sump in 2k miles.

One thing that happened me before was I did not sufficiently tighten an oil filter and it loosened. I spotted the problem (drips on the driveway) before it became an issue, but if a garage had serviced the car and if the engine seized then I would have a decent claim.

You obviously know what you're talking about so I'm not going to waste my time. However, I'm sure the manufacturer's specifications state checking the oil more frequently than every 5 months (I'm sorry OP for saying this over and over, it doesn't make your life any better lol). I don't see the difference between that and washing your ipod in the sink when the instructions say not to.

If you don't operate something in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, I don't see how they are going to be held liable. In particular in the case of a car. I mean it could have left the garage perfect. The fact that there is a warranty does not generally include the garage checking your oil at regular intervals.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong though, as I'm sure OP needs the money more than Hyundai. However, I suspect it will just be an expensive lesson.

maidhc wrote:

In short. Ordinary people are not expected to know much about cars, their engines, or what to do with them. That is why manufacturers fit service indicators...e.g. a "I need a service, so get off your behind and get me to a garage" light.

Actually basic stuff like oil and water levels, tyre changing, etc is part of driver testing these days.

COLMCS

Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments, and i understand that the oil has to be checked regularly, the oil was not leaking out of it, and got only a little use over the 5 months thus the 2000miles due to my g/f s ill health.

My point is that the garage let that car leave their business with very little oil in it, and led us to believe that it had a service, and full of oil!!! i maybe wrong here but when you buy a used car from a garage are you expected to get it serviced straight away? I wouldnt of thought so...

The mechanic that looked at the car said it hadnt been serviced, and if it had it should of been good for 6000 miles. In contrast i have a 97 saxo that i bought for 1500 two years ago at 60000miles on it i have done over 32000 miles in it and its been serviced only once!!! And it goes up and down the country every week bringing heavy music equipment and lads, and never a moments trouble. It will prob die tomorrow.... ha ha lol

Thanks

Col

Is it worth getting a replacement engine for it? If so whats is the costs like involved?

old boy

my ould yoke has over 278,000 on the clock i never check the oil level, just change it every 3-4,000 miles, come on peeps, this is a mint yoke, mine is 89, 2k on the clock an she blows, dont blame the young wan, create a stink in the show room and the forecourt on their busiest times, peeps have rights, 1 is to drive more than 2k before de engine blows. there gonna put the blame on the owner, thats what their used to, see de munster flag, stand up an fight,

unkel

iblis wrote:

I don't think it's a good idea to suggest not checking your oil is ok

Maidhc did not suggest that. The way I'm reading it is that he doesn't check the oil that often, because he has owned the cars / tractors for a long time and he would "know" if something was wrong, like his example of the puddle

I never check my oil myself. I trust the computer to tell me if there's anything wrong. This doesn't mean I suggest not checking your oil is ok either

@OP - I'm very sorry, but I can't see any comeback for your girlfriends car. Sorry!

pred racer

maidhc wrote:

Maybe it is just me, but if I had a car that was burning so much oil, and so unreliable that it could empty the sump in less than a few weeks i'd dump it like a hot potato.

I didn't check the oil in my mondeo in the past 5k. Even though the car has 200k up it had only burnt a little. Even though I'd hazard a guess I own more internal combustion engines than most here (probably 7-8 in daily use between the tractors and cars), I would never check them more than every few months. Anything that burns oil does so consistently... and if something leaks then you see a big black puddle.




Where did the oil go. A healthy engine will not empty the sump in 2k miles.

One thing that happened me before was I did not sufficiently tighten an oil filter and it loosened. I spotted the problem (drips on the driveway) before it became an issue, but if a garage had serviced the car and if the engine seized then I would have a decent claim.

In short. Ordinary people are not expected to know much about cars, their engines, or what to do with them. That is why manufacturers fit service indicators...e.g. a "I need a service, so get off your behind and get me to a garage" light.

QFT

If it was leaking, then yes its negligence on the drivers part not to do something about it. If not then of course I expect my engine (98 pug 406 diesel 145k)to do more than 2000 miles without being checked.

iblis wrote:

I'm sorry to jump on the bandwagon here, but oil in particular should be checked weekly, if not daily. Oil burns off in some cars. There may not be a leak or mechanical fault.

oil checked daily???? you need to get laid mate!

and yes oil burns off in most cars, but i still think the girl should be able to expect that she will get more than 2000miles/km on 3ltrs of oil.

I would definately take it back to the garage(dunno how you will do as they are mostly thievin baxtards in my experience)and try your best.
Also try the consumer affairs board, there are some quite knowledgeable (sp?)folks on there that really know their rights!

bazz26

Sounds to me like the OP's girlfriend is now paying for neglect made by the previous owner of the car.

While checking engine fluids regularly is recommended by the manufacturer if the car was serviced 5 months ago as the garage said then I cannot see how the engine can suddenly just pack in because the oil wasn't topped up by the current owner over a short period of time unless there was an issue with car previous to this.

OP it really depends on what/if any warranty was given with the car, how long that warranty was and most importantly what compontants were covered under that warranty. I would possibly ask someone with experience in these matters or seek legal advice as based on the information at hand I am not fully convinced that the garage involved are right to tell you to feck off.

iblis

unkel wrote:

Maidhc did not suggest that. The way I'm reading it is that he doesn't check the oil that often, because he has owned the cars / tractors for a long time and he would "know" if something was wrong, like his example of the puddle

Fair enough. I don't believe it is wise to suggest checking oil once every few months. Is that more accurate?

After all, he was responding to my suggestion (and had quoted that portion of my post) that it should be weekly if not more frequently...

iblis

pred racer wrote:

oil checked daily???? you need to get laid mate!

lol, yes I'm a virgin. Whatever mate. What does it take, 1 minute? 2? In a case of low mileage that is probably more frequent than necessary. But if the car is only driven from time to time, then I stand by checking it each day you drive.

Anan1

On any new (to me) car, I would check fluids very regularly at the beginning. I would never recommend what maidhc does, but it's a lot more forgiveable with an engine you know.

COLMCS

Would i be better getting a secondhand engine, for the car? or get the engine reconditioned? seeing as the miles are low 46000?

Thanks Again Col

Darragh29

Did the oil pressure warning light not come on at any stage??? If not, why not. That's what I'd be asking the garage.

Darragh29

OP, you should get a reputable mechanic to test the oil pressure switch circuit. If it's a thing where there is a problem here, you could argue that this circuit was defective since the car was sold and that this defect lead to the car runnning out of oil and the warning system not alerting you to this effect. For example, if your mechanic looks at the car and comes back and tells you that the oil pressure light bulb in the dashboard has been removed, you'd have the garage by the short & curly's... Same would go for a faulty oil pressure switch or a broken cable... Again, I keep saying this when I hear these stories, if you had got the vehicle checked by a mechanic you trust before buying, your gf would probably have saved herself a lot of trouble here...

COLMCS

Hi Darragh29, thanks for your advice, I guess i was a little naive not getting it checked out by a mechanic, i just thought buying from a big car dealer would be ok, hindsight is always 20/20!

Thanks mate

Col