Greystones Marina - Permission GRANTED

The Yipper

Just heard on the radio that permission has been granted to develop the Marina in Greystones - with 13 conditions. I wouldn't even know where to start looking to see what the conditions are.

loyatemu

nothing on any of the news sites, the pleanala website or wicklow co. co.'s site - but they never update their site anyway. Pleanala's site only has decisions up to 27 July.

foxy06

they are talking about it on east coast radio at the moment.

loyatemu

Oh well, I wasn't in favour of the current plan but I can see some of the advantages of it. Can only hope the imposed conditions have reduced the scale of it somewhat. Don't think I'll be lying in front of any bulldozers though....

mikedragon32

I've contacted WCC and ABP to see if they can provide the conditions. I'll keep you posted.

CathD

mikedragon32 wrote:

I've contacted WCC and ABP to see if they can provide the conditions. I'll keep you posted.

Relevant page on ABP website...

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/EF2016.htm

"Decision: Case has been decided, details will not be available before 10-Aug-2007"

Marcais

A grey day for Greystones and a very dangerous precedent which could destroy the Irish coastline. Just when you thought it was safe to back near the water!

These pictures are from the EIS on WCC website. Appalling that ABP would allow this to proceed. See the 4th picture (except they have somehow managed to remove the cliffs and replace with golden sand!)

Greystones Beach Destroyed

East Coast news reported on 25th July that the Bord may have done a deal with the developers. The Bord would not comment and Sispar denied it. A total lack of transparency leaving many questions to be asked.

"The scheme has been approved subject to 13 conditions, including the redesign of roads and re-nourishing the beach from the sea every year.

The public-private development, which involves Wicklow County Council, was bitterly opposed by local residents."

Thanks FG and FF no other parties supported this (and Joe Behan was the only FF'er opposed). No doubt we will hear how good this is for Greystones and how those opposed (i.e 90%+) should just get behind the project and voice no more opposition.

GAN

oh my god, I am so depressed after looking at that fourth photo. You're right, it's a very sad day for Greystones.

postmanpat69

Greystones development given approval

Thursday, 9 August 2007 10:09

An Bord Pleanála has approved revised plans for a controversial €300m redevelopment of the harbour area of Greystones, Co Wicklow.

The board has attached 13 conditions to the plans, which were scaled down by around 10% after the board raised a number of concerns with the developers last year.

The approved proposals include plans for 341 units of apartments and houses, 5600sq.m of commercial space including restaurants and shops, a 230-berth marina, new facilities for local clubs and a new boardwalk. There will also be a new large public plaza.

In relation to an inert landfill, which is on the site, the board has agreed that it can stay, but has ordered that no houses be built on it.

The board has also requested that any materials being used for work that is being carried out around the beach area be brought in by sea, in order to lessen the impact on roads in the area.

Last summer, An Bord Pleanála informed the developers, Wicklow County Council and its private sector partner the Sispar Consortium, that it had deferred a decision on the plans, and sought further information and changes.

This led to the plans being revised, and the oral hearing being reopened in March of this year.

The Greystones Protection and Development Association, which opposed plans for the redevelopment of Greystones Harbour, has said its hugely disappointed with An Bord Pleanála's decision.

Spokesperson, Evelyn Cawley, said the size and scale of the plans were wrong for the area and were not a good fit.

She said the group had hoped for a further reduction in the style and size of the apartment development and redesign of the public space, but did not get it.

She described the 13 conditions attached by the board as of no great significance.

However, a spokesman for Wicklow County Council has said they are pleased with An Bord Pleanála's decision.

He said it had been a long process, which had begun with the compulsory purchase order in December 2004, and had involved two public hearings.

matt-dublin

we all knew eventually this was going to happen.

I like the idea of the marina, i don't like the idea of all the houses and apartments...

and because this got the go ahead, we all know that the shopping centre will get the go ahead to in order to support the marina dev in terms of amenites and job space.

ashmac

hi
just talked to ABP there and there is a section on their site with the revised plans, however (!), it is not working at the moment the lady said she would get on to their IT dept to fix it. in the meantime, she is emailing them to me. i will try and post here when i get them. no reaction from the GDPA yet. i imagine it wont be long.
am

Joliegood

Very sad day indeed for the town. It's hard to accept that the views of the beach and Bray Head will be gone forever. I hope the developers are happy with lining their pockets against the wishes of the vast majority of the town. Shame.

ashmac

ABP emailed me this on request.

future_plans

Despair. I suppose it shows how little influence the normal public has on such decisions. Especially when elected reps are telling us all that they know better. Was down walking by the harbour yesterday and it was a bright, sunny, still evening and it was absolutely beautiful. Now we are losing that. Bulldozers from Sispar moving into north Greystones. No doubt the massive development of shopping centre, apartments and houses by Zapi in Charlesland will also get the go ahead and we'll be all living in the middle of a building site for a few years.

Marcais

Marcais wrote:

A grey day for Greystones and a very dangerous precedent which could destroy the Irish coastline. Just when you thought it was safe to back near the water!

These pictures are from the EIS on WCC website. Appalling that ABP would allow this to proceed. See the 4th picture (except they have somehow managed to remove the cliffs and replace with golden sand!)

Greystones Beach Destroyed

East Coast news reported on 25th July that the Bord may have done a deal with the developers. The Bord would not comment and Sispar denied it. A total lack of transparency leaving many questions to be asked.

"The scheme has been approved subject to 13 conditions, including the redesign of roads and re-nourishing the beach from the sea every year.

The public-private development, which involves Wicklow County Council, was bitterly opposed by local residents."

Thanks FG and FF no other parties supported this (and Joe Behan was the only FF'er opposed). No doubt we will hear how good this is for Greystones and how those opposed (i.e 90%+) should just get behind the project and voice no more opposition.

ps. The application was (inexplicably) recommended by board inspector James Carroll. more details here, middle of page under "News" [url] http://www.pleanala.ie/[/url]

[restrained!] Response from the GPDA on the grant of permission for the Greystones Marina Development

The GPDA is extremely disappointed at the granting of permission for the Marina and apartment development. In particular we are disappointed that none of the concerns expressed by the community of Greystones regarding the size and appearance of the development and the disruption it will cause were accepted by the Board.
The Committee of the GPDA would like to thank the members of the Greystones community who supported our campaign over the last 11 years. We are extremely grateful to all those who attended public meetings, distributed newsletters, collected petitions, raised funds and in so many other ways helped us in our efforts.

The Committee would also like to thank the public representatives who supported us and wish them every success in the future.

The community of Greystones worked very hard to protect it’s most valuable asset and can take great pride in that effort. It is a pity that the effort was without success.

Joliegood

Anyone got an idea when this hideous destruction will begin ?

dubrunner

Marcais wrote:

ps. The application was (inexplicably) recommended by board inspector James Carroll. more details here, middle of page under "News" [url] http://www.pleanala.ie/[/url]

[restrained!] Response from the GPDA on the grant of permission for the Greystones Marina Development

The GPDA is extremely disappointed at the granting of permission for the Marina and apartment development. In particular we are disappointed that none of the concerns expressed by the community of Greystones regarding the size and appearance of the development and the disruption it will cause were accepted by the Board.
The Committee of the GPDA would like to thank the members of the Greystones community who supported our campaign over the last 11 years. We are extremely grateful to all those who attended public meetings, distributed newsletters, collected petitions, raised funds and in so many other ways helped us in our efforts.

The Committee would also like to thank the public representatives who supported us and wish them every success in the future.

The community of Greystones worked very hard to protect it’s most valuable asset and can take great pride in that effort. It is a pity that the effort was without success.

Just accept it and realise progress must happen in every area.

If you had your way, Charlesland would not have been built and we'd all be renting somewhere else.

Joliegood

dubrunner wrote:

Just accept it and realise progress must happen in every area.

If you had your way, Charlesland would not have been built and we'd all be renting somewhere else.


Progress ? Vandalism is the word you should be using.

Marcais

Duplicate

dubrunner

Joliegood wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

Just accept it and realise progress must happen in every area.

If you had your way, Charlesland would not have been built and we'd all be renting somewhere else.


Progress ? Vandalism is the word you should be using.

Was building Charlesland an act of vandalism on the farmland?

Wiseup and stop whinging. Decision made.

dubrunner

Marcais wrote:

Joliegood wrote:

Jolie, there are some posters on here whose bizarre "logic" would point to them making very good FF councillors and you would be wasting your time engaging with them, with suggestions like "if you don't like it why don't you move" !

Anyway back on topic. I see condition 12 states that:

12 Prior to the commencement of development, the local authority shall establish a locally based liaison committee, which shall act as a forum for disseminating of information on planning and construction work relating to the overall development. The committee shall be representative of the local authority, their consultants and contractors and local community and business interests.

Reason: To facilitate and promote the involvement of the local community in ensuring that the development is being provided in accordance with this approval.

Not sure if this is meant as a joke given the Local Authority's general disregard for consultation with the community. I would hazard a guess that certain members of the Chamber of Commerce will be appointed to this fiduciary position to truly represent "local community".

OK, now can you just leave it Marcais.

As the council have stated, "Decision Granted"

Now go and have a drink or whatever you need to do to drown your sorrows!

Then focus on your next project!

Marcais

Joliegood wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

Just accept it and realise progress must happen in every area.
If you had your way, Charlesland would not have been built and we'd all be renting somewhere else.

Progress ? Vandalism is the word you should be using.

Jolie, there are some posters on here whose bizarre "logic" would point to them making very good FF councillors and you would be wasting your time engaging with them, with suggestions like "if you don't like it why don't you move". You should demand at least a basic level before engaging with someone.

Anyway back on topic. I see condition 12 states that:

12 Prior to the commencement of development, the local authority shall establish a locally based liaison committee, which shall act as a forum for disseminating of information on planning and construction work relating to the overall development. The committee shall be representative of the local authority, their consultants and contractors and local community and business interests.

Reason: To facilitate and promote the involvement of the local community in ensuring that the development is being provided in accordance with this approval.

Not sure if this is meant as a joke given the Local Authority's general disregard for consultation with the community. I would hazard a guess that certain members of the Chamber of Commerce will be appointed to this fiduciary position to truly represent "local community".

Lumbarda

dubrunner wrote:

Marcais wrote:

OK, now can you just leave it Marcais.

As the council have stated, "Decision Granted"

Now go and have a drink or whatever you need to do to drown your sorrows!

Then focus on your next project!

Dubrunner, I suggest you go and have a drink in the Beach House and take a look at the view that isn't going to exist for much longer thanks to this "progressive" development. I for one will be spending more time on the North Beach while I can before it gets destroyed......

Wineman

Lumbarda wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

I for one will be spending more time on the North Beach while I can before it gets destroyed......

I think replacing huge grey cobbles with sand might make that beach a bit more user friendly and more attractive. Having a marina and the biggest public square in Ireland is certainly something to look forward too also. Well done to the planning board for a sober desicion and welcome to the 21st century Greystones!

Hammiepeters

Lumbarda wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

Dubrunner, I suggest you go and have a drink in the Beach House and take a look at the view that isn't going to exist for much longer thanks to this "progressive" development. I for one will be spending more time on the North Beach while I can before it gets destroyed......

Just a thought. But wont there be views from the bars and restaurants planned for the marina? And I thought the North beach was a bit of dump the way it is now.

Marcais

Lumbarda wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

Dubrunner, I suggest you go and have a drink in the Beach House and take a look at the view that isn't going to exist for much longer thanks to this "progressive" development. I for one will be spending more time on the North Beach while I can before it gets destroyed......

Lumbarda, the few soulless people in favour of this appalling abomination would not have the capability of appreciating natural beauty so don't waste your time.

A very symapthetic refurbishment of the harbour was proposed by GPDA but summarily dismissed by lazy FF and FG councillors lacking imagination, taste or decency. A small bit of consideration to this plan and a few amendments and a feasible, financilaly sound solution acceptable to all could so easily have been found.

FF and FG councillors pulled out all stops to push this through including multiple cases of misrepresentation, even going as far as noting the support of fictional groups such as "Greystones Communtity Group" in their glossy misleading litetrature. An insult to all real community groups in the area. They could have used their efforts to poll the community and find an acceptable alternative.

The easy option has been taken a complete destruction of the natural seascape without regard for anything other than a quick fix and maximum profit for Sispar. WCC have washed their hands of their responsibility in maintaining the harbour area and instead have chosen to abandon it to developers.

Lumbarda

Wineman wrote:

I think replacing huge grey cobbles with sand might make that beach a bit more user friendly and more attractive. Having a marina and the biggest public square in Ireland is certainly something to look forward too also. Well done to the planning board for a sober desicion and welcome to the 21st century Greystones!

Do we really need the "biggest public square in Ireland" in what is still essentially a relatively small seaside town? The Victorian Harbour is a huge part of Greystones charm and attraction for many people (and yes it needs refurbishment without a doubt but not complete destruction). Personally, I prefer the look of 19th Century Greystones to the planned monstrosity of 21st Century "progress".... In this case I have to say Biggest isn't necessarily Best and, as a woman, that's not a view I'd concur with very often

Hammiepeters, yes there probably will be bars and restaurants in the new marina but the view will be rather, hmm, how can I put it.....different. :rolleyes:

Wineman

Marcais wrote:

Lumbarda wrote:

Lumbarda, the few soulless people in favour of this appalling abomination would not have the capability of appreciating natural beauty so don't waste your time.

So now you are an authority on natural beauty too. Whether a person is pro or anti harbour I think they are entitled to express their opinion. There is no call for you to patronise people who have a different opinion to your own.

Hammiepeters

Wineman wrote:

Marcais wrote:

So now you are an authority on natural beauty too. Whether a person is pro or anti harbour I think they are entitled to express their opinion. There is no call for you to patronise people who have a different opinion to your own.

With you on that wineman. I am also undecided about the whole project but totally decided against the rabid responses from many of the anti development lobby anytime their infallibility is called into question.

scivvy

FF and FG councillors pulled out all stops to push this through including multiple cases of misrepresentation, even going as far as noting the support of fictional groups such as "Greystones Communtity Group" in their glossy misleading litetrature. An insult to all real community groups in the area. They could have used their efforts to poll the community and find an acceptable alternative.


I wonder are the same FF and FG councillors planning on entering the local elections which are not in the too distant future ??

dubrunner

Marcais wrote:

Lumbarda wrote:

Lumbarda, the few soulless people in favour of this appalling abomination would not have the capability of appreciating natural beauty so don't waste your time.

A very symapthetic refurbishment of the harbour was proposed by GPDA but summarily dismissed by lazy FF and FG councillors lacking imagination, taste or decency. A small bit of consideration to this plan and a few amendments and a feasible, financilaly sound solution acceptable to all could so easily have been found.

FF and FG councillors pulled out all stops to push this through including multiple cases of misrepresentation, even going as far as noting the support of fictional groups such as "Greystones Communtity Group" in their glossy misleading litetrature. An insult to all real community groups in the area. They could have used their efforts to poll the community and find an acceptable alternative.

The easy option has been taken a complete destruction of the natural seascape without regard for anything other than a quick fix and maximum profit for Sispar. WCC have washed their hands of their responsibility in maintaining the harbour area and instead have chosen to abandon it to developers.

Marcais. think you may have muddled up the quotes there....

Anyway what else can you do? Is there a further appeal process available?

If not, why continue whining on this topic?

Mine is a Guinness.