Greystones Marina - Permission GRANTED

dubrunner

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woodser

Marcais wrote:

A grey day for Greystones and a very dangerous precedent which could destroy the Irish coastline. Just when you thought it was safe to back near the water!

These pictures are from the EIS on WCC website. Appalling that ABP would allow this to proceed. See the 4th picture (except they have somehow managed to remove the cliffs and replace with golden sand!)

Greystones Beach Destroyed

East Coast news reported on 25th July that the Bord may have done a deal with the developers. The Bord would not comment and Sispar denied it. A total lack of transparency leaving many questions to be asked.

"The scheme has been approved subject to 13 conditions, including the redesign of roads and re-nourishing the beach from the sea every year.

The public-private development, which involves Wicklow County Council, was bitterly opposed by local residents."

Thanks FG and FF no other parties supported this (and Joe Behan was the only FF'er opposed). No doubt we will hear how good this is for Greystones and how those opposed (i.e 90%+) should just get behind the project and voice no more opposition.

90% mearseIt is a great day for Greystones the mish mash of what is the area at the moment will have a new focus and heart to it a proper centre not to mention the new harbour facilities.6000 signatures out of a population 23500 check the C.S.O.as the petition counted Kilcoole 200 signatures Delgany Kilmac and Killincarrig as well as Charlesland and Eden gate then I say 23500 and 6000 signatures doesnt add up to 90% on top of that Bray had 600 signatures and I even saw 5 from Finland along with a couple of hundred from the U.K.Thanks to all those who silently supported this project we'll see real progressin greystones and it can take its place amongst the finest coastal towns in ireland.When the new charlesland phase 2 is in place we'll see indigenous jobs asnd services and we will no longer be a satellite dormitory town for dublin

woodser

Lumbarda wrote:

dubrunner wrote:

Dubrunner, I suggest you go and have a drink in the Beach House and take a look at the view that isn't going to exist for much longer thanks to this "progressive" development. I for one will be spending more time on the North Beach while I can before it gets destroyed......

The beach house is sold and will form another development it wont even be there when the harbour is built.:rolleyes:

dubrunner

woodser wrote:

90% mearseIt is a great day for Greystones the mish mash of what is the area at the moment will have a new focus and heart to it a proper centre not to mention the new harbour facilities.6000 signatures out e nof a population 23500 check the C.S.O.as the petition counted Kilcoole 200 signatures Delgany Kilmac and Killincarrig as well as Charlesland and Eden gate then I say 23500 and 6000 signatures doesnt add up to 90% on top of that Bray had 600 signatures and I even saw 5 from Finland along with a couple of hundred from the U.K.Thanks to all those who silently supported this project we'll see any real progressin greystones and it can take its place amongst the finest coastal towns in ireland.When the new charlesland phase 2 is in place we'll see indigenous jobs asnd services and we will no longer be a satellite dormitory town for dublin

Agreed Woodser. The propaganda has niuow gone totally out of control. This will make Greystones the envy of any coastal town across Ireland. Finally we will have a slick upto date/modern plaza compared against any US/European town..........

Wake up Marcaise and smell the coffee and quit the whining.

It's good for Ireland, good for Greystones and good for you.

mikedragon32

Everyone needs to tone down the language here.

Every thread on this subject has spiralled out of reason and this one is heading the same way.

If the discussion can't be kept civil, I won't just lock the thread, it will be deleted and any further threads on development closed immediately or moved elsewhere, probably the Recycle Bin under Sys.

matt-dublin

mikedragon32 wrote:

Everyone needs to tone down the language here.

Every thread on this subject has spiralled out of reason and this one is heading the same way.

If the discussion can't be kept civil, I won't just lock the thread, it will be deleted and any further threads on development closed immediately or moved elsewhere, probably the Recycle Bin under Sys.

do it anyway mike, it will spiral out of control and some people can't keep their heads.

back on topic, im pro harbour, particularly because greystones looks so delapidated and old. The marina and yacht club alone will bring tourism into the town in the form of inshore cruisers stopping in over night, Sailing events can be held there etc etc.

More restaurants, hopefully a few more bars now that the beech house will be gone.

and just give up the whole its going to ruin the irish coast line, cos to be frank, its not. There harbour at the moment is only useable for dinghys and fishing. It needed to be vastly upgraded. If you were really objecting to it because it is going to destroy general amenity you wouldn't have moved into charlesland in the first place.

Hammiepeters

matt-dublin wrote:

do it anyway mike, it will spiral out of control and some people can't keep their heads.

back on topic, im pro harbour, particularly because greystones looks so delapidated and old. The marina and yacht club alone will bring tourism into the town in the form of inshore cruisers stopping in over night, Sailing events can be held there etc etc.

More restaurants, hopefully a few more bars now that the beech house will be gone.

and just give up the whole its going to ruin the irish coast line, cos to be frank, its not. There harbour at the moment is only useable for dinghys and fishing. It needed to be vastly upgraded. If you were really objecting to it because it is going to destroy general amenity you wouldn't have moved into charlesland in the first place.

If the builder behaves responsibly(he probably wont) and it doesn't create too much mess, then I think you have a point. If those vehemently opposed to it, now focus their energy on best case scenario i.e. making sure the thing is kept tasteful. Maybe this result is not the end of the world.

woodser

Well said Hammi maybe this should be the end note to this thread mike locking it now would be a good idea before we have more fractitious comment

Ossie

The decision by the Bord to allow the destruction of the north beach is indeed a very dark day for the people of Ireland. Yet again the civil rights of the people have been usurped by the political classes and their benefactors.

The fact that the Harbour development was embedded into the Wicklow County Development plan in 2003 and in the Greystones/Delgany Local Area Plan in 2006 and the total neglect of the harbour by the council made it very easy for the developers to get it passed by the Bord. Apparently the Bord do not over ride county development plans.

The real villains of this outrage are the county councillors who perpetrated the outrageous material variation of the Wicklow County Development Plan back in November 2003. (Jones, Mitchell et al). Zoning powers of county councillors should now be removed to prevent this outrage happenning again to some other poor unfortunate citizens.



In reality it transpires that the whole EIS/Public submissions/oral hearing process was a total sham which gave the appearance that the planning system is fair and open to public scrutiny.

matti

and just give up the whole its going to ruin the irish coast line, cos to be frank, its not. There harbour at the moment is only useable for dinghys and fishing. It needed to be vastly upgraded. If you were really objecting to it because it is going to destroy general amenity you wouldn't have moved into charlesland in the first place.[/QUOTE]

I am opposed to the harbour development but also live in Charlesland. I have lived in Greystones for most of my life and I love it. The new harbour development is going to ruin it. What I love about Greystones is the little bit of rural beside Dublin! Yes the harbour needs work, but I don't think this scale is suitable. When Charlesland started, I was against it. I tried for 2 years to buy a house in Greystones that wasn't in Charlesland, but couldn't afford it! The difference between the Charlesland development and the harbour is that Charlesland is still a mile outside the village!! Its on the outskirts of the village. Why should we have to give up our 'quaint' village to development?

Lumbarda

Well said, Matti! While I didn't live in Greystones before, it's somewhere I've always loved and it was a long held dream to move here and Charlesland made that dream affordable! I also wrestled with my conscience about buying in Charlesland but at the end of the day it was built on farmland outside of the town and doesn't affect the character of Greystones in itself the way that this development will.

My father spent a big part of his life in Greystones as a child back in the 1920s, he passed away some years ago but I loved the fact that some of Greystones as he would have known it (i.e. the harbour) still exists - not for much longer thanks to so-called "progress"...

I also think it's an absolute disgrace the way that Wicklow County Council have held the people of Greystones to ransom over this issue by not maintaining the harbour and the "it's either this marina or nothing" approach. Dublin Corporation allowed huge parts of the historic centre of Dublin to be destroyed in a similar way in the 1960s/70s in the name of progress (e.g. Fitzwilliam St) - I guess some people have learnt nothing from past mistakes....

Hammiepeters

Guys I think that you are romantisising in you picture postcard view of little oul Greystone by the sea. And lets face it, the town never fully exploited this by way of tourism, etc. We are not really a destination for tourists or conferences that I believe we could have been. our populaion has now doubled in the last few years and it is obvious that we are now to all intents and purpose, an extension of greater Dublin. The reality of the North beach is that it is eroded and covered in dog s**t. Part of the new project is the restoration of a beach not the destruction of one. A private interest may stop the practice of people using it as a dogs toilet. And if I remember rightly, a band of travellers helped themselves to the public car park a couple of years ago. Maybe having private ''vested interest'' is not such a bad thing.

matti

Hammiepeters wrote:

Guys I think that you are romantisising in you picture postcard view of little oul Greystone by the sea. And lets face it, the town never fully exploited this by way of tourism, etc. We are not really a destination for tourists or conferences that I believe we could have been. our populaion has now doubled in the last few years and it is obvious that we are now to all intents and purpose, an extension of greater Dublin. The reality of the North beach is that it is eroded and covered in dog s**t. Part of the new project is the restoration of a beach not the destruction of one. A private interest may stop the practice of people using it as a dogs toilet. And if I remember rightly, a band of travellers helped themselves to the public car park a couple of years ago. Maybe having private ''vested interest'' is not such a bad thing.

Maybe we are romanticising, but so what? Greystones does need work (definitely not denying that) but it has the potential to be a lot more than what is planned. The way things are going, every town in this country will be the same as the next - same houses, same shopping units, same shops. Yes, Greystones will have this great Marina or whatever, but once that is done, the next town will be the victim in the race to be bigger and better than the last. The charm that makes Greystones so desirable as a hometown will be lost. Ireland will be like living on The Truman Show!

JupiterKid

Great. Just what Ireland needs - more development of unsuitable shoebox "apartments" that will be probably by 75% vacant by the time they're completed given the way the housing market is going at the moment.

It will destroy an existing public amenity and transfer it into the hands of private developers. Typical. There will be little or nothing given back to the people of Greystones save for a overpriced "trendy" eatery.:(

Hammiepeters

JupiterKid wrote:

Great. Just what Ireland needs - more development of unsuitable shoebox "apartments" that will be probably by 75% vacant by the time they're completed given the way the housing market is going at the moment.

It will destroy an existing public amenity and transfer it into the hands of private developers. Typical. There will be little or nothing given back to the people of Greystones save for a overpriced "trendy" eatery.:(

Well , as I never felt that strongly about it. This is my last word on the subject. 75% vacant? Don't think so. They would(for better or worse) sell off the plan today. The existing amenity is barely useable and in it's new form will be available for the public to use. Sailors, Boaters, fishermen,etc. A reconstructed beach and public square is to be given back as well as a boardwalk. How do you know that there will be a trendy eatery and that it will be overpriced? Thats it, thank you. I shouldn't really have bothered.

matt-dublin

JupiterKid wrote:

Great. Just what Ireland needs - more development of unsuitable shoebox "apartments" that will be probably by 75% vacant by the time they're completed given the way the housing market is going at the moment.

It will destroy an existing public amenity and transfer it into the hands of private developers. Typical. There will be little or nothing given back to the people of Greystones save for a overpriced "trendy" eatery.:(

Shoebox apartments are now a thing of the past, the law was changed last year on apartment planning and now apartments have to come with more storage and bigger areas capabale of housing families and not just you professionals on the quick buy.

mikedragon32

There is an article on page 14 of todays Irish Times about the development for anyone who is interested. I'll try to post it up from the electronic version later.

The Yipper

Hows the development of the marina going to affect the old landfill site?
if that has to be broken into as part of the ongoing works, i can't imagine what the smell's gonna be like...not to mention all the critters that'll become homeless.
For those of you living in charlesland, the increased construction traffic, which could surpass 20 trucks PER HOUR, will all have to access and exit the harbour area via the new link road...which'll bring it right into your community...but then again, i'm sure all those in favour of the marina on this thread have no problem with that! Superquinn should make a bit of cash with all the extra passing traffic.

Joliegood

There was also a piece in the times stating that there may be a legal challange to it. Can you imagine 20 trucks per hour travelling through the main street to get to the harbour. I was under the impression that they would travel down Rathdown Road (the risk factor to school kids being one of the objections raised). The whole thing is lunacy anyway.

matt-dublin

does anyone know where i can find the most up to date plans for this?

foxy06

Joliegood wrote:

There was also a piece in the times stating that there may be a legal challange to it. Can you imagine 20 trucks per hour travelling through the main street to get to the harbour. I was under the impression that they would travel down Rathdown Road (the risk factor to school kids being one of the objections raised). The whole thing is lunacy anyway.

One of the 13 restrictions was that all materials would be brought in via the sea

Sparks

Wineman wrote:

I think replacing huge grey cobbles with sand might make that beach a bit more user friendly and more attractive.

And daft. There's a reason there's only cobbles there rather than miles of golden sand. And who did the environmental study that said the sand wouldn't be eroded away in a tenth of the time the rocks are being eroded? The same person who attached the condition that the beach had to be replenished every year?

the biggest public square in Ireland is certainly something to look forward too also.

Yeah, they said that about smithfield too, a decade or so ago. It was going to be the nucleus of a great new financial district.

What it is today is the nucleus of a great big wino's district, with crime rife all over the place. Face it, a big wodge of concrete with a few lampposts does not a public amenity make.

Sparks

Hammiepeters wrote:

The existing amenity is barely useable and in it's new form will be available for the public to use. Sailors, Boaters, fishermen,etc.

I don't recall the protest where lots of sailors and fishermen petitioned the town to update the harbour lest they be unable to use it for commercial unloading of cargo and fish to the trucks waiting by the harbour to take the goods to market.
Actually, I don't remember the trucks or the large roads they use either.
A little help here someone?

A reconstructed beach and public square is to be given back as well as a boardwalk.

Why give it back when you could just leave it be right now for far less money?

How do you know that there will be a trendy eatery and that it will be overpriced?

The former through precedence, one would imagine, and the latter through near-definition...

Hammiepeters

Sparks wrote:

I don't recall the protest where lots of sailors and fishermen petitioned the town to update the harbour lest they be unable to use it for commercial unloading of cargo and fish to the trucks waiting by the harbour to take the goods to market.
Actually, I don't remember the trucks or the large roads they use either.
A little help here someone?


Why give it back when you could just leave it be right now for far less money?


The former through precedence, one would imagine, and the latter through near-definition...

Sorry Sparks. I meant Anglers, so you can give the soapbox a rest. And anyone I know who is involved in sailing or local watersports is pro marina. But no, they dont take to the streets to demonstrate the fact. In fact I remember being collared by a crusty looking girl at Superquinn who looked at me as if I was Satan when I didn't sign her anti marina petition. The antis in this argument did themselves no favours with their vitriolic and sometimes dishonest approach to the whole project. In a way I'm glad you lost.

D35

In typical Irish fashion we are living in the past, residents of Greystones should be delight in what they are getting. You are having your town brought into the 21st century who cares about a crapy beach, out with the old and in with the new. All your property will go up in value, new friends new business, new shops, bars etc. your on to a winner.

I lived in Charlesland for 6 months and would say I went into Greystones maybe 10 times because there is nothing in it.
I'm a first time buyer and I want to know where to sign I think Greystone could be the Malahide of the south

Sparks

I want to know where to sign I think Greystone could be the Malahide of the south

Indeed it could. That's why I'm moving in the next few months. Enjoy the urban decay you've just had secured for yourselves by people who will be getting enough from the deal to buy a few new yachts which will get moored at a classier marina than the one you're going to see in Greystones in a few years...

Hammiepeters

Sparks wrote:

Indeed it could. That's why I'm moving in the next few months. Enjoy the urban decay you've just had secured for yourselves by people who will be getting enough from the deal to buy a few new yachts which will get moored at a classier marina than the one you're going to see in Greystones in a few years...

You're not bitter though!

Lumbarda

Hammiepeters wrote:

I remember being collared by a crusty looking girl

Lovely term to use and you complain about the language used by "the antis"!

Hammiepeters wrote:

The antis in this argument did themselves no favours with their vitriolic and sometimes dishonest approach to the whole project. In a way I'm glad you lost.

From what I've seen on this forum at least, the most aggressive responses and language used ("whinging" etc) have been from the pro-marina side, funny that as you'd think they'd be happy!

Hammiepeters

Lumbarda wrote:

Lovely term to use and you complain about the language used by "the antis"!



From what I've seen on this forum at least, the most aggressive responses and language used ("whinging" etc) have been from the pro-marina side, funny that as you'd think they'd be happy!

Sorry, but she was a crusty type. I never accused anyone of whinging and I never said I was pro Marina. Funny how you can put your own slant on things.

mikedragon32

In Lumbarda's defence, (s)he never said YOU accused anyone of whinging, just someone on the pro-side.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist go look back over the thread and see who is being referred to.