Can't get excited about Bioshock

Zapp Brannigan

completed it tonight. I think I got a good ending

I brought the Little sisters to the surface and they all went off and got married...sluts!

koneko

I cannot stress enough that you should not click on the following link if you haven't finished the game.
DON'T CLICK ON THIS LINK

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=539&page=1
For those that *have* finished it, really interesting spoilerific interview with Ken Levine on that page, explains some things in the game, talks about influences, that sort of thing.

Burning Eclipse

koneko wrote:

I cannot stress enough that you should not click on the following link if you haven't finished the game.
DON'T CLICK ON THIS LINK

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=539&page=1
For those that *have* finished it, really interesting spoilerific interview with Ken Levine on that page, explains some things in the game, talks about influences, that sort of thing.

Fantastic article, thanks for that Koneko!!

koneko

Heh.

Spoiler below, don't read

There is a bit at the start where a banner says "The Great Chain Is Guided By Our Hand" (with a hand and chain coming from the wall, like a monument). Jack has tattoos on his wrists of chains. Seems relevant considering the twist.

There is a quote from Atlas Shrugged that fits...
Lillian looks at the bracelet, which is shaped like a chain, and remarks, “A chain. Appropriate, isn’t it? It’s the chain by which he holds us all in bondage.”

Zillah

Maximilian wrote:

Zillah, keep playing on through it and when you're questions are answered, have a look back through these recent posts. It may amuse you.

Huh...ok, this is very interesting.

Venom

Im just past the medical level and while the game play great on high settings on my PC (Im amazed seriously) I feel Im in the same boat at Zillah as this game hasnt grabed me in that I cant stop playing it. While I can see the simularities between Bioshock and System Shock 2, Bioshock is in no way in the same league as SS2 as SS2 grabed my attention right from the start and never once let go.

Also for all tho crying for a no dvd "patch" it only took 6 days to arrive

Elessar

I stopped playing this last week. I find it boring and repetitive. Gave it til the second level but it was just GO FIND X to OPEN Y, then proceed etc. I can't see what all the fuss was about. Highly disappointing.

Kiith

Cleared it this morning, with the good ending. Thought it was an absolute gem of a game. A must buy for everyone. Will almost certainly get my Game of the Year vote.

BlitzKrieg

Do all the people who dislike the game only go as far as level 2?

Headshot

finished the game a few minutes ago

best game iv played for years

Venom

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Do all the people who dislike the game only go as far as level 2?

Im up to level 6 now and is just one dull chore after the other. Really hav to agree with the non-impressed crew on this game.

BlitzKrieg

so you've gone past the plot twist and still bored?

Guess there's no argueing with you then. You dont like it you dont like it.

its just not your sort of game.

Retr0gamer

Finally got around to playing this game today. Just past level 2 and I have to say it's such a wonderful game. Loving every minute of it. I really like the slower pace although the action is great what with all the extra abilities and excellent AI. Much better than that rubbish that was the Darkness. The naysayers should be given a taste plasmid immediately.

Burning Eclipse

Venom wrote:

Im up to level 6 now and is just one dull chore after the other. Really hav to agree with the non-impressed crew on this game.

Take the index and middle fingers from your right hand and put them to your left wrist...

Find anything...

A pulse...

No.... Didn't think so.

Venom

Burning Eclipse wrote:

Take the index and middle fingers from your right hand and put them to your left wrist...

Find anything...

A pulse...

No.... Didn't think so.

Just because I dont buy into all the fanboi **** about this game being the best thing since sliced bread dosent mean I think its a crap game, its just ok as an FPS style game is all. Personaly I feel the devs revved up the hype machine to much and failed to deliver on the hype they generated.

0ubliette

I spent all weekend with Bioshock. Its really great, but id definitely say its a very high 8, possibly a 9 but i dont think its a 10 really. I doesnt do anything that ive not seen before. The plasmids are fun but theyre not really anything amazing, electric bolt, winter blast, the wasps, they all do pretty much the exact same thing, i.e. stun your opponent so you can finish them off. And the splicers are all very similar, the enemy variation could be alot better. Having said that the big daddies are obviously made of pure win.

It is a great game, im really enjoying it, the atmosphere is second to none, but i think they hype train rolled right off the tracks after the oxm 10/10 and the PCG 95%, expectations were then set a little too high.

Zombrex

Finished it over the weekend.

Saw the twist coming a mile away

As soon as I saw the chain tattoo on the arm, plus always thought Atlas was dodgy, and as soon as you find out Fontaine is dead it didn't take a rocket scientist ... expected Ryan to come back considering he should be able to use the regeneration chambers because of his DNA plus he lets you kill him

Good game, loved the art direction and the story, but a bit of a missed opportunity between what had been hyped and delivered.

Some of the buzz of the game, such as living world with characters that interact realistically with the world and each other, really didn't live up to the actual playing.

They seem to have just done what Doom did, one baddie hits another baddie so they go ape sh*t on each other. Otherwise they seemed to not even know the other is even there. When being

protected by the Big Daddy

a Splicer could be right beside you shooting at and he would do nothing until until you are shot or you shoot. As a computer programmer I appreciate the difficulty in figuring this out and that it is more important that he doesn't do something wrong, running off to kill every baddie, but still the level of believability is what the game was sold on so you figured they had figured this out.

It was also a shame that they fell back on old FPS mechanisms such as searching every bloody desk or box for ammo and health. The Plasmids were interesting but they were really just the same as a "secondary fire" or "spells" in a lot of other games. I expected more ability to lay elaborate traps or interesting set ups.

Oh well, a game for others to build upon

tvnutz

Just finished the game a few minutes ago. Brilliant game. I hadn't actually heard anything about it before it came out and just picked it up based on reviews. Deserves to win any game of the year awards.

Son Goku

Finished it yesterday. Philosophically it was a very interesting game

Free market society, sweat of your brow, e.t.c.

Also Ryan was given some brilliant lines.

I like how the tape recorders had different characters who each described a certain trend in the story. e.g. McClintock was about the anti-Ryan movement.
Also did anybody else think the "good" ending was really touching and in the same theme as the rest of the story, where as the bad ending is really jarring and random?

The gameplay wasn't too original*, but I was wowed artistically.


*However the Big Daddy was one of the more interesting enemies in recent games, especially the Bouncer variety

shatners basoon

Wicknight wrote:

Good game, loved the art direction and the story, but a bit of a missed opportunity between what had been hyped and delivered.

Some of the buzz of the game, such as living world with characters that interact realistically with the world and each other, really didn't live up to the actual playing.

They seem to have just done what Doom did, one baddie hits another baddie so they go ape sh*t on each other. Otherwise they seemed to not even know the other is even there. When being

protected by the Big Daddy

a Splicer could be right beside you shooting at and he would do nothing until until you are shot or you shoot.

It was also a shame that they fell back on old FPS mechanisms such as searching every bloody desk or box for ammo and health. The Plasmids were interesting but they were really just the same as a "secondary fire" or "spells" in a lot of other games. I expected more ability to lay elaborate traps or interesting set ups.

In fairness i don't think that any game ever made that was given alot of hype ever lived up to it (bar maybe ocarina of time or mario 64). I do think that its leaps and bounds ahead of all other shooters in how well its put together. Gameplay wise its nothing revolutionary which is probably where most people felt let down (though seeing as the genre has been done to death i fear theres nothing revlutionary which could be done here) but in terms of the experience and the immersion into the world via the graphics, various back stories (which were brilliantly done i thought), set pieces (with Steinman's level being my favourite) and especially the audio i felt that the whole thing was perfectly intergrated into the game and is how every game should be done.

Regarding the

big daddy protection

That annoyed me at first until i realised he's treating you like little sister so it would be ridiculous if he acted any differently. [/spoiler]

However with all the praise i've given the game its naturally far from perfect. I didn't like the way the rpg elements weren't as detailed as say System shock 2 or Deus Ex. It felt like the transition between Deus Ex 1-2 in that regard and left me wanting. The variety of the enemies is a bit disappointing (they really could have made some of them really crazy from genetic modifications especially towards the end to tense things up a bit. The last level was a bit rushed and i hate the cliche of

protecting someone in a game whilst they take their bloody time plus the level was really beautiful and i would have enjoyed it more if i didn't have to mind the little tyke.

Money and hacking also made the game too easy and thus it was a bit too forgiving in terms of the many many ways you could keep from dieing though if i ever did die i loaded my last save as i felt it was cheap to regenerate so there are ways around it and its small criticism.

I'm glad I didn't get too carried away with the hype anyway as i still enjoyed it more than any other game i've played in years (we love katamari and phoenix wright being the last ones to put such a stupid grin on my face). Hopefully someone makes a good multiplayer mod as i think there's great scope for one there. Something like shadowrun or team fortress with each player having limited abilities.

joe_chicken

Wicknight wrote:

a Splicer could be right beside you shooting at and he would do nothing until until you are shot or you shoot. As a computer programmer I appreciate the difficulty in figuring this out and that it is more important that he doesn't do something wrong, running off to kill every baddie, but still the level of believability is what the game was sold on so you figured they had figured this out.

I thought this too, but there would be a fairly easy way to get around the programming. You cause enemies agro (by shooting them, or going close up to them), otherwise all the baddies in the level would run at you at once. So the one's that are agro towards you, the big Daddy would fight. So considering it wouldn't be that hard to code, it must have been by design.

I spose splicer fights would have been way too easy with that plasmid.

It was annoying though, shouting "Just shoot him you big lug"...

It's a flawed game, and I'd definitely agree that it relies heavily on old FPS standards. But for the most part they kept the enjoyable parts, and the depth of play is considerably better than any FPS I've played in a while.

L31mr0d

just played a good 3 hours of the game and not really impressed... I don't know what I was expecting but it was more than that. It hasn't knocked HL2 or Far Cry off my top spots

johnny_ultimate

Does seem the main criticsm is a lack of orignality. I admit that it doesn't do anything particularly new gameplay wise (atmosphere, story etc.. wise however it more than certainly does) but it improves upon and often perfects the classic FPS clichés.

And it really is a game that gives more the more you are willing to experiment. If people just run through this game shooting everything in sight as you would FEAR or the like, then you aren't getting the full experience. The beauty of the game is you can handle fights anyway you want. Someone mentioned a lack of tactics and traps... if you want to, you can easily set up wildly elaborate fights. For example, set up some security camera and turrets, a couple of trip wires, a few angry splicers in the general area,

hypnotise Big Daddy, security focus and enrage plasmids

and then piss off a Big Daddy. The resulting melee is an example of why this game has been so praised.

It is a bit strange that there are so many detractors (I thought that most gamers would adore this game), but hey, variety is the spice. If we all loved this game than it would it would just be boring Good to hear some of the criticisms, although I have no reservation in awarding this a 10/10 - this is the kind of game that really deserves that accolade.

shatners basoon

I concur. Had some truely spectacular fights when i messed about and mixed some of the plasmids together. The beauty of the gameplay is whilst it does nothing in particular that previous FPSs have done, it allows you to do pretty much anything that other FPS have done. You can play it however you like. Maybe the imagination of some gamers has been somewhat ruined by all the rehashes of the same formula.

How anyone can rate farcry ahead of Bioshock is beyond me. Personally i thought everything about farcry bar the graphics was pretty standard- like a really pretty girl who's incredibly boring or something. Each to their own i guess.

On another note i'm replaying system shock 2 and i'm really loving playing it again, i hope if Irrational make another shock that they make it a bit more deep in the RPG sense. Adam was great and all but it was no cyber modules:P

L31mr0d

shatners basoon wrote:

How anyone can rate farcry ahead of Bioshock is beyond me. Personally i thought everything about farcry bar the graphics was pretty standard- like a really pretty girl who's incredibly boring or something. Each to their own i guess.

The way FPS's are going they are becoming more and more sandbox in their design, and this is what I loved about Far Cry, the freedom of movement within the environment. They gave you the option to engage your enemy in the open, or simply sneak by them in the forest. You could engage them in a gun battle, attack them from a safe distance with a sniper rifle or blow up the whole beach by hijacking a gun boat and using its rocket launcher.

I find none of this freedom in Bioshock, it is very linear, and the fact you are given a complete map of the level with greyed out spots that you haven't visited or the little guiding arrow above your head is testament to this, the scary bits aren't scary, the environment, while eerie and interesting at the start have now become repetitive and mundane, always a dark dank room with posters on the wall and some splicers walking around aimlessly. Sure people go on about the narrative and atmosphere, but gameplay does have to come into it somewhere and for me this game is offering nothing new

humanji

L31mr0d wrote:

The way FPS's are going they are becoming more and more sandbox in their design, and this is what I loved about Far Cry, the freedom of movement within the environment. They gave you the option to engage your enemy in the open, or simply sneak by them in the forest. You could engage them in a gun battle, attack them from a safe distance with a sniper rifle or blow up the whole beach by hijacking a gun boat and using its rocket launcher.

I find none of this freedom in Bioshock, it is very linear, and the fact you are given a complete map of the level with greyed out spots that you haven't visited or the little guiding arrow above your head is testament to this, the scary bits aren't scary, the environment, while eerie and interesting at the start have now become repetitive and mundane, always a dark dank room with posters on the wall and some splicers walking around aimlessly. Sure people go on about the narrative and atmosphere, but gameplay does have to come into it somewhere and for me this game is offering nothing new

I completely agree with that. It's a run of the mill shooter that, although is fun to play and looks fantastic, offers nothing really new. It's claimed to be the spiritual successor of System Shock 2, but it's just a step backwards.

It'll kill time before my next game purchase, and once that arrives I can't see me going back to this.

shatners basoon

L31mr0d wrote:

The way FPS's are going they are becoming more and more sandbox in their design, and this is what I loved about Far Cry, the freedom of movement within the environment. They gave you the option to engage your enemy in the open, or simply sneak by them in the forest. You could engage them in a gun battle, attack them from a safe distance with a sniper rifle or blow up the whole beach by hijacking a gun boat and using its rocket launcher.

I find none of this freedom in Bioshock, it is very linear, and the fact you are given a complete map of the level with greyed out spots that you haven't visited or the little guiding arrow above your head is testament to this, the scary bits aren't scary, the environment, while eerie and interesting at the start have now become repetitive and mundane, always a dark dank room with posters on the wall and some splicers walking around aimlessly. Sure people go on about the narrative and atmosphere, but gameplay does have to come into it somewhere and for me this game is offering nothing new

I'll give you that point about farcry alright, the freedom to roam is impressive but considering the setting of the game it kind of had to be. The indoor bits were pretty linear too as far as i remember and to complain about splicers walking around aimlessly is a bit off. I've seen them randomly try to attack the little sister when the big daddy wasn't near, have arguements with each other, be drunk, use the vending machines etc. About half of them have interesting things to do, pretty much all the respawned ones do walk about aimlessly but considering they're aware of your presence in the vicinity its obvious they're looking for you.

You never found the game scary at all? Granted after the first few encounters with splicers you become used to them but i can think of at least five times i was freaked out (more than most games except maybe SS2 and half life(s)

In Medcial in the steamy room (or any room that went steamy with the accompaniment of weird voices), The path leading to the confrontation with Steinman, Cohen's statues, the splicers that came out of the water, the first one that played dead, the first spider splicer encounter, the first big daddy fight.

Some of your arguments i can understand but the environments? They're hugely detailed, nearly every room is different unless its in the same building where naturally there'd be fewer differences. The differences between Arcadia, the Proving Grounds, Farmer's Market, the Hephaestus as well as the rest are too numerous to count. There's a whole city in there, hugely detailed and very authentic. Naturally the settings aren't going to be as blunt and apparent as say generic Alien ice Planet to Alien fire Planet but i loved the subtlety and craft that went into this game.

Gameplay wise whilst theres nothing exactly new or revolutionary it pretty much allows you to play the game how you want. If you fail to see the freedom than i really ask you to use your imagination a bit more. (possible spoilers) e.g. rather than go shock and shoot a big daddy you could stick say 4 prox mines onto a chair and use telekinesis to lob it at him. Or you could hit him with security bullseye, enrage and lure him into an area with splicers, enrage them and use the houdini plasmid to sit back and watch the mayhem. That sort of thing can't be done in any other game and through the way it allows you to do all these thing together it does indeed create something new.

Step back from Shock 2? Nah, its a step forward in many regards and a step back in a few. The combat is better, the RPG elements aren't (dumbed down for the console market ala deus ex 2 imo) the atmosphere is on par, most importantly though the manner in which executed is better so that makes it a better game but maybe not if you consider when Shock 2 was made as it was (and always will be) ahead of its time in how deep a game can be.

I apologise if I'm coming off as a total fanboy or anything as i most definitely agree that there are flaws in the game, some big ones and its nowhere near perfect but when i hear run of the mill shooter being used in reference to it i just have to reply (most likely against my better judgment) We get so many run of the mill shooters and every now and again a really really good one, very rarely do you see a game thats as well made as this one, forgive me if i find it annoying and hard to understand even how people can't appreciate it (unless its due to the hype which can frankly kill anything no matter how good it is)

BopNiblets

Has the Shader Model 2.0 mod been mentioned in here? Bioshock is SM3 but some guys made their own Shader pack and it will work on SM2.0 cards now!

I was disappointed when I realised my X800Pro wouldn't be able to play it, but then I found a mod or a "hack" if you will (which I know isn't allowed on boards) I was relieved.

So any mods think this is ok to post if it hasn't been already? (I ain't reading 13 pages, too lazy! )

Edit: On second thought, I think I'll wait until I upgrade my system to play it, the unfortunate side effects of this "fix" are crappy 16-bit looking textures and ~5 minute loading times!
This is what it looks like on my machine:


Geez 2K Games, way to isolate a load of players with your Shader 3 only shenanigans! *facepalm*

Branoic

I really hate the way people constantly bandy around the marvel of "sand box" play versus "linear" play, and how now-a-days anything that's considered linear is automatically a Bad Game.

They're both equally valid and completely different styles of play. Yes, the new developments in sandbox gameplay can be great and exciting, but very often lead to crap story telling (ala Far Cry), simply because by giving gamers so much freedom, developers don't have the necessary structures around which to build a great compelling story. They typically come up with some half-assed premise and then let the player loose in the world. This is by no means a bad thing - a weak story is a fine trade off in light of the open gameplay, and I regularly enjoy these types of games.

If linear gameplay is done right, it results in a fantastic plot and excellently constructed narrative, on a par with any top movie. If I wanted to play a sandbox game (and I frequently do), I'll boot up Far Cry or Saints Row. If I want to be told and take part in an excellently produced, intelligent and emotional story, I'll boot up Bioshock. I won't bitch and moan about how its not sandbox.

Blue Velvet

A roller coaster ride i couldn't put down!!!