Difference between meat and fish

StormWarrior

Why is there a demarcation line between meat and fish? Whats the difference between them? Why do some people eat "fish but not meat" and why? And I don't mean just because someone likes fish but not meat. Why are they regarded as 2 different things?

Slaphead07

There's no point asking that in a vegetarian food forum. Vegetarians don't differentiate between meat and fish... we eat neither, despite what some restaurants and chefs might think.

The old maxim that "meat is murder but fish is justifiable homicide" doesn't hold here!

Jack Vegas

Ah now, it's a valid point and the question is aimed at those who follow Pescitarianism (those who eat fish but not other meats). Granted, this is not a Pescitarian board, but this is most likely where board Pescitarians would view the post and answer the lad's question.

Im curious myself,so if anyone would like to field that one then feel free..

rockbeer

This is quite an interesting one historically - in medieval times fish were regarded as biologically different from land animals. It used to be widely believed that they reproduced asexually. The Cathars, for example, who were otherwise pretty much vegan, ate fish quite happily. I think there's a hangover from these beliefs to the modern day even though they make no biological sense.

Even some reputable dictionaries continue to include fish in their definitions of vegetarianism, e.g. from the Oxford Compact English Dictionary:

"Vegetarian: A person who abstains from eating meat, and sometimes also fish, eggs and dairy products."

From a more pragmatic view, fish tends to be the only widely available non-farmed animal, and many vegetarians have more of a problem with the cruelty of farming methods than with eating animals in itself.

Then there's the whole issue of land use and the extreme inefficiency of animal farming. Meat production feeds far fewer people than could be fed if the same land were given over to crop production (it's been estimated that 7 times more land is needed to support a meat-based diet than a vegetarian one), and many of us regard this as indefensible in a world full of hunger. Animal production also contributes directly to environmental issues like deforestation and desertification. Livestock production is responsible for 70% of Amazon deforestation, for example. These problems don't really apply to the same extent in the fishing industry, although it's not without problems and overfishing has it's own environmental costs.

It's worth remembering that it's not necessary to be a "moral vegetarian". There are pursuasive economic and environmental reasons not to eat meat.

Personally I do eat fish, but only wild fish caught in a sustainable manner, preferably with a rod and line..

Tar.Aldarion

Because fish are deemed even more different than other animals to us. You also have a harder time seeing their emotions and can't relate to their emotions as well as you can with most animals. A fish doesn't whimper, a puppy does.
Don't kill cute things.

rockbeer

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

A fish doesn't whimper, a puppy does.

Ah, there's nothing I like better than a nice cute puppy steak

I always find it strange how many people are happy to pile into a slab of dead cow yet are appalled by the idea of eating dead dog or horse.

What's the difference?

Tar.Aldarion

Not many people here have cows as pets, unlike dogs. Horses are seen thusly, nice animals, useful, pet materal, good for social activities etc. People are used to loving these type of animals, noting their personalities, and relate any dog killing to their own experiences with their family pet which they love.

I think you should visit other lands and partake of a fine puppy steak, oh my, yum!

rockbeer

Indeed Tar, you spell out the point I was implying which is that the only real difference is in the way people perceive animals.

Dog = cute, cuddly, friendly, intelligent
Cow = meat on legs

It demonstrates above all a failure of the imagination.

Nature Boy

Yeah i agree. We don't eat any animals us mighty superiour all powerful masters of the world take pity on.

Carawaystick

The distinction may be due to the old "Can't eat meat on a Friday" dogma of the church.
I remember reading a book that explained how on fast days fish, eggs weren't considered meat, along with Whales and some aquatic mammals, maybe beavers and capybaras in south america.

Not sayin it makes sense but it's potentially a reason why.

sweet-rasmus

i'm not sure exactly why people eat fish but not meat. my best guess is that fish is often though of as healthier to eat due to their high omega oil content, whereas meat isn't considered as healthy, nutrition wise. fish is always referred to as "brain food".

from a vegetarian point of view, i think both should be avoided, and don't get why oxford have their definition, even if it's representing the 'fake' veggies out there who call themselves vegetarian.

edit: oh! i notice the uk vegetarian society has a new campaign to remind people that vegetarians don't eat fish http://www.vegsoc.org/latest.html

Washout

StormWarrior wrote:

Why is there a demarcation line between meat and fish? Whats the difference between them?

No line where i am concerned...your either a vegitarian or not.

as far as other ppl are concerned that think they are vegitarians whilst still eating fish...i guess they believe the old adage that Fish dont have a central nerves system so dont feel pain.

Id like these same ppl to watch fish as they spasm all over the place when fish are caught and are out if the water.

rockbeer

Washout wrote:

No line where i am concerned...your either a vegitarian or not. as far as other ppl are concerned that think they are vegitarians whilst still eating fish...i guess they believe the old adage that Fish dont have a central nerves system so dont feel pain

In other words you assume that everyone else must base their choices on the same reasoning as you.

There are plenty of good reasons why a person might eat fish but not other meat. I've outlined some of them above. Why do people on this thread keep on saying they can't understand this choice when perfectly rational explanations are being offered?

Washout

rockbeer wrote:

In other words you assume that everyone else must base their choices on the same reasoning as you.

There are plenty of good reasons why a person might eat fish but not other meat. I've outlined some of them above. Why do people on this thread keep on saying they can't understand this choice when perfectly rational explanations are being offered?

my reasoning is my own reasoning and is based on the definition of the word vegitarian as i see it. (I have some bias towards the spiritual aspects of being vegitarian (I am of indian origin))

you indeed have pointed out rational explainations of why people eat the diets they choose to it, wheter it be abstain from red meat or wheter it be ppl choose to eat nothing but fruit.

I do take your point that your people become vegitarians because of the whole agricultural practices that take place these days and i also respect that view.

MagnumForce

My general rule is that I dont eat anything that could ever have looked at me. (and dont go saying stupid things about animals which have evolved in pitch black enviroments without eyes, you know what I mean!)

There's the argument that fish don't feel pain, which is just stupid, all creatures have a nervous system and pain sensing abilities. It really annoys me when I say "I'm a vegetarian" and people say "Do you eat fish?" No! of course I don't eat fish you idiot! I'm a vegetarian!!

RE*AC*TOR

it's ok to eat fish
cause they don't have any feelings

Slaphead07

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

it's ok to eat fish
cause they don't have any feelings

so, by your logic it's OK to insult Trolls?

Tar.Aldarion

I remember reading a thread by RE*AC*TOR where he admits to being to weak of character to make a difference with what he believes in, so I guess he has to lash out.

RE*AC*TOR

I was just quoting a Nirvana song. Was the first thing I thought of when I read the thread title. I was hardly "lashing out".

To be honest I've always thought that vegetarianism is a sound moral choice. I wouldn't care to get into the discussion about whether its right or wrong for a vegetarian to eat fish, I think expressing a definitive view either way will probably step on someone's sensitive toes.

Underneath the bridge
The tarp has sprung a leak
And the animals Ive trapped
Have all become my pets
And Im living off of grass
And the drippings from the ceiling
Its okay to eat fish
cause they dont have any feelings

Slaphead07

I think Kurt was being ironic. Ironically.

RE*AC*TOR

Slaphead07 wrote:

I think Kurt was being ironic. Ironically.

Yes, of course he was, I never claimed otherwise.

Slaphead07

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I remember reading a thread by RE*AC*TOR where he admits to being to weak of character to make a difference with what he believes in, so I guess he has to lash out.

Oh yeah... I can see that now.

RE*AC*TOR

Must be something lacking in the vegetarian diet that effects the humour centre of the brain.

Slaphead07

yep.... there it is again....

kevmy

As a non-veggie I want to say I don't eat dog (horse,etc) meat probably because it is not widely available in Western culture. Had I grown up in Eastern Asia I would probably eat dog meat. And if I was hungry enough I would probably eat dog meat without much of a thought.

The reason dog meat is not widely eaten over here is probably as much to do with it's relatively small amount of feed per animal. On top of this you have the perceived better uses of dogs and horses ie. hunting, sheepdogs, racing etc.

And since I grew up on a farm I have no crazy ideas about cows/sheep/pigs not having personalities or so forth. Each animal is different and each has there own personality some friendly, some not so friendly just like humans.

The way I see it though is that we have come to the top (or close to the top) of the food chain due to our ingenuity and if we want to eat meat (as the majority of the population do) then we have, through natural selection, earned that right.

PS: However I do think if you are a vegetarian it is a little rich to eat fish on a they don't feel pain / they don't count as meat stance

Tar.Aldarion

kevmy wrote: »

The way I see it though is that we have come to the top (or close to the top) of the food chain due to our ingenuity and if we want to eat meat (as the majority of the population do) then we have, through natural selection, earned that right.

Let's say I am stronger and smarter than most humans, should I have the right to kill them, because of natural selection?
Or should I use my intelligence to see that I don't need to eat meat or kill them(/ and note all the benefits of not eating them), as I can just eat fake meat? or any range of other alternatives?
There are other things to take into consideration apart from compassion and empathy, environmental etc I imagine, through the wonder of natural selection I got my impressive intelligence, and should use it to consider other aspects of eating something than, 'because I want to'.

I also find it odd that because of random chance, we have a right for some reason. :-)

WindSock

kevmy wrote: »

As a non-veggie I want to say I don't eat dog (horse,etc) meat probably because it is not widely available in Western culture.

It's also not advisable to eat carnivorous animals. Plus it's ming.

The way I see it though is that we have come to the top (or close to the top) of the food chain due to our ingenuity and if we want to eat meat (as the majority of the population do) then we have, through natural selection, earned that right.

We don't have to feel obliged to eat meat just because we can. We can also, through our ingenuity produce and survive on food that doesn't come from other animals.