Sold gf's car, new owner is being awkward

Duckjob

Darragh29 wrote:

...

biko wrote:

I hope you're not located in Galway because I'm looking for a car and tbh you come across like a bit of a cnut.

a bit harsh maybe, but it is a fact of business that there are people who simply are not worth having as customers.

Anyway Ned78, even if you didnt notice the discrepancy, I take it he examined the service history himself before he committed to the sale. I would say that puts the responsibility firmly in his court to query it before buying.

Owen

cormac_byrne wrote:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motors/2005/1207/1132330272721.html

"The National Car Test service does record a vehicle's mileage at every test but it will not share that information, even with a dealer or private buyer looking to check the mileage of a questionable car"

Thanks Cormac, as it turns out, herself is convinced she has a print out from the NCT at home, so if she does, I'll just photocopy that, and send it to him in a letter, along with a summary of the sale process, and everything he and I agreed to, in other words, close the door.

maidhc

cormac_byrne wrote:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motors/2005/1207/1132330272721.html

"The National Car Test service does record a vehicle's mileage at every test but it will not share that information, even with a dealer or private buyer looking to check the mileage of a questionable car"

They most likely will share it with the registered owner though.

Churchy

Darragh29 is spot on. Some people just arent worth dealing with - unfortunately I was working for an employer when I used to tell punters that "they didnt have to buy a car and I didnt have to sell it". Boss under pressure for numbers didnt see the funny side when they complained

O/p just put it down to experience.

unkel

biko wrote:

tbh you come across like a bit of a cnut

No need for that. You're warned

scitpo

I'd have some empathy for both sides. If I bought a car with x amount of miles and I see a receipt for a different number I would be none to happy especially if it hadnt been explained to me before.

If the car had been clocked genuinely and the buyer had proof of it then it is most certainly possible to take a private seller to court.

Customers might be difficult with dealers/mechanics because they need to be as both professions have a deserved bad reputation. Obviously there are good guys out there and they have to live with the suspicion that comes with the territory.

"The National Car Test service does record a vehicle's mileage at every test but it will not share that information, even with a dealer or private buyer looking to check the mileage of a questionable car"

Its of no use to anybody. My NCT mileage is 40K below the actual mileage. They just read off the odometer and record whats on it.

biko

unkel wrote:

No need for that. You're warned

Sorry Mod, got a bit carried away there.
When buying a used car you go in with the mindset that the seller is trying to fleece you. If you find something dodgy and ask them about it and they give you grief like: that they have a fu*king neck annoying you any further, you stand over the mileage of the vehicle and that they are an impossible couple to deal with and to never come near you again. Insult them if you have to Kinda ruins your mood.

SMERSH

Darragh29 wrote:

Understand your situation there OP. When I started in business I had to deal with this on a regular basis, in particular people automatically distrusting you when you have been honest. I have managed to filter out the few odd customers who you could never please and have been delighted to see them going else where with their business because now they are wasting someone else's time. I had to tell a small number of customers who were at the same sh*te as your man who bought you gf's car, to not come back as they were impossible to please. This raised a few eyebrows at first here amongst staff as it was perceived by some as arrogant and rude. But now that we have a core of extremely good customers who we will bend over backwards for, who actually appreciate the high level of service that we provide, there is a consensus now that we don't have ackward customers because we got rid of the few that we had and now we would see one coming and give the usual excuses to move them on to someone else.

I had to learn the lesson you've learnt, and with a bit of hindsight (which is always a great thing), you'd probably look back and now regret not running with your gut feeling and the fact that they were being so picky with the car when looking at it, feeling paintwork, looking under the bonnet when they probably may as well have been looking into space, spending too long looking at the car, these little things are subtle pointers that suggest that the person is likely ackward to deal with either in the process of agreeing to sell or as you have found out now, subsequent to a sale.

What I'd do to get some relief now is have an extremely abrupt conversation with them face to face and tell them that they have a fu*king neck annoying you any further, you stand over the mileage of the vehicle and that they are an impossible couple to deal with and to never come near you again. Insult them if you have to, if they as much as drop their jaw to your boss, take them to the fu*king cleaners for slander.

I had a customer in here a week or two ago looking for a timing belt done on a Renault Laguna. We had done a service for him on his wife's car, think it was a VW Golf, and even though we valeted & washed the car before delivering it back to him/her (we also collected it for him/her), he appeared to be a bit rude when paying his bill, nothing serious, just handed in a cheque and no thank you very much or kiss my arse or nothing, asked a few stupid questions in a rude manner about the parts we used and were we sure we replaced the parts we were charging him for. He rang up here last week looking for a price for a service & timing belt for his own Laguna. I recognised him from his attitude over the phone and when he said to me, "have any of your mechanics done a timing belt on a Laguna?", I knew it was the same guy. We do timing belts here on Laguna's on a weekly basis, but I didn't feel like I had to justify the experience of my staff to this muppet, so I said "yes, we have loads of experience doing timing belts on Laguna's but unfortunately we are booked up for the next 6 weeks." This job was worth a few hundred Euro to us as he wanted a service as well as a timing belt, but the point I'm making is that no amount of money is worth the hassle and grief a pr*ck like this can bring into your workplace.

With the full benefit of hindsight, you'll likely see a muppet like this coming before he even comes around the corner next time!

I agree 110% with you. There really are people who you are better off without as customers. The customer is always right my arse!

If I was the OP I would not have sold to them in the first place.

scitpo

I had a customer in here a week or two ago looking for a timing belt done on a Renault Laguna. We had done a service for him on his wife's car, think it was a VW Golf, and even though we valeted & washed the car before delivering it back to him/her (we also collected it for him/her), he appeared to be a bit rude when paying his bill, nothing serious, just handed in a cheque and no thank you very much or kiss my arse or nothing, asked a few stupid questions in a rude manner about the parts we used and were we sure we replaced the parts we were charging him for. He rang up here last week looking for a price for a service & timing belt for his own Laguna. I recognised him from his attitude over the phone and when he said to me, "have any of your mechanics done a timing belt on a Laguna?", I knew it was the same guy. We do timing belts here on Laguna's on a weekly basis, but I didn't feel like I had to justify the experience of my staff to this muppet, so I said "yes, we have loads of experience doing timing belts on Laguna's but unfortunately we are booked up for the next 6 weeks." This job was worth a few hundred Euro to us as he wanted a service as well as a timing belt, but the point I'm making is that no amount of money is worth the hassle and grief a pr*ck like this can bring into your workplace.

That is the most ridiculous crap I have ever read. So this evil customer didnt say thanks or start kissing your ring just because you serviced his car and thats a bad customer? He then had the cheek to ring you up asking you if you had experience doing a timing belt? The scumbag. Well done for losing out on genuine business.

maidhc

scitpo wrote:

That is the most ridiculous crap I have ever read. So this evil customer didnt say thanks or start kissing your ring just because you serviced his car and thats a bad customer? He then had the cheek to ring you up asking you if you had experience doing a timing belt? The scumbag. Well done for losing out on genuine business.

Have to agree, sure sign some garages are making way too much money.

(should just add, where I work the only clients we don't like are the ones that don't settle their bills!)

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

That is the most ridiculous crap I have ever read. So this evil customer didnt say thanks or start kissing your ring just because you serviced his car and thats a bad customer? He then had the cheek to ring you up asking you if you had experience doing a timing belt? The scumbag. Well done for losing out on genuine business.

Scitpo, I'm unique when it comes to experience on this particular topic because I've already failed once when starting up my own business, and it was almost exclusively down to having customers similar in attitude to the person who bought the OP's gf's car.

The first time I started up, some years ago, I failed in spectacular fashion, and I failed because I was being too nice to people. For some reason when it comes to garages, people try things that they wouldn't try anywhere else.

Trust me, I'm not on here with my particular opinion with regard to this subject for any reason other than I learnt the hard way. I learnt what the inevitable outcome is when you get your customer base wrong, when you don't have the confidence to say "no" to the guy who is only using you. Thankfully now I can see where I went wrong, I can identify the guy who is coming in the door who wants you to do something for nothing and I can identify the guy who comes in and is prepared to pay a reasonable price for an excellent service. The people the OP has described are in the former category and if you are doing business for these type of people, you're fu*ked from the very outset.

Darragh29

maidhc wrote:

Have to agree, sure sign some garages are making way too much money.

Absolute rubbish. From the first day I started up again, I operated like this and I was breaking even. Profit didn't come into the equation.

maidhc wrote:

(should just add, where I work the only clients we don't like are the ones that don't settle their bills!)

And what about the people who pay their bill but take issue with the work you have done subsequent to paying their bill and take up your whole day timewasting and messing with your head, like the people the OP is describing???

scitpo

As I said I can empathise with the fair garage owner and I wish I knew some but your industries reputation precedes you. If a garage owner knows your not a soft touch then they will think twice about messing up your service or doing unessecary work to bump up your bill. Thats why people mightnt sound too friendly to you.

Guy:Incognito

layke wrote:

Consumer law says you can return any product within 10 days as long as it's returned in the same condition it was sold (i.e unused). Then again that's a retail law from when i did my service at night during college and i' m not sure if it applies to the car trade or in fact even a 2nd hand sale.

It most certainly does not. You should have studied harder.

From Cormac's link above ( wasnt going rooting for it elsewhere) "You have no rights under consumer law if you simply change your mind about wanting the goods. However, some shops will offer you an exchange as a gesture of goodwill"

OKenora

Forget garages, same applies across business. I ran a conputer shop for a while and we had the same attitude, some customers were simply not worth the ahssle. Not that they saw through anything or made any startling discovery of shoddy practive - simply they went looking for something they would never find but treated the staff as if they had just found it.

We provided an exemplerary service and 90% of our business at the time was coming from personal recommendation. We simply did not have time to pander to the insecurity of the "awkward customer" at the expense of time we could spend working for other customers.

There were several customers that were given cards for other places to go and politely asked to elave the shop and not return.

I beleive that it stems from the fact that these people have little or no knowledge in the subject (computers/cars all the same) but they don't want you to know that so act like they do to protect themselves from being ripped off, totally forgetting the only reason they are there is because we had a great reputation for being honest and not ripping people off........

Owen

Anyway, getting back On Topic, I would have just given the guy back his money at this stage, but the bloody log book has gone off to Shannon, and it'll end up with 2 more owners on the book if we do that. So, I'm sticking to my guns, I'll let you know how we get on.

Darragh29

biko wrote:

I hope you're not located in Galway because I'm looking for a car and tbh you come across like a bit of a cnut.

Ned, the mileage is a bit of a hassle but as it was an honest mistake by the garage nothing can come from it. You're well covered.

I don't sell cars and reported for abuse.

Darragh29

ned78 wrote:

Anyway, getting back On Topic, I would have just given the guy back his money at this stage, but the bloody log book has gone off to Shannon, and it'll end up with 2 more owners on the book if we do that. So, I'm sticking to my guns, I'll let you know how we get on.

Just my advice but I don't think you should give an inch to twits like this. This guy is the type that if you offered him his money back, he wouldn't take it back, he'd be saying, "ah no, I was just making the point that I thought the mileage was dodgy, that's all!"... You can't please people like this no matter what you do, if you filled the car up with 50 Euro notes before giving him the keys, he'd be back in a week's time annoying you over something else. Tell him he's a time wasting pr*ck and be done with him...

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

As I said I can empathise with the fair garage owner and I wish I knew some but your industries reputation precedes you. If a garage owner knows your not a soft touch then they will think twice about messing up your service or doing unessecary work to bump up your bill. Thats why people mightnt sound too friendly to you.

Yeah right. Firstly, a service provider is either honest and professional or is not. With a car comes car maintenance. If you don't trust someone to deal with your needs honestly, wtf are you doing bringing a car near them for work??? Nothing pisses me off more than someone coming into a garage with an "attitude". It's completely down to insecurity as OKenora has pointed out.

I go to great lengths to be as open and transparent with customers as I possibly can. We even go to the hassle of putting their service history online. We have a policy of showing customers old parts that we have replaced which they can take away if they wish. In this context, I simply haven't got time to endure the cynical clown who comes in with an attitude and wants me to jump through all sorts of phsycological hoops just so they can bring themselves to a point in their head that then can trust me enough to service their car. If I was the OP, I'd have seen the signs and told them I had another buyer who had just put down a deposit, "sorry"!

oleras

Darragh29 wrote:

Yeah right. Firstly, a service provider is either honest and professional or is not. With a car comes car maintenance. If you don't trust someone to deal with your needs honestly, wtf are you doing bringing a car near them for work??? Nothing pisses me off more than someone coming into a garage with an "attitude". It's completely down to insecurity as OKenora has pointed out.

I go to great lengths to be as open and transparent with customers as I possibly can. We even go to the hassle of putting their service history online. We have a policy of showing customers old parts that we have replaced which they can take away if they wish. In this context, I simply haven't got time to endure the cynical clown who comes in with an attitude and wants me to jump through all sorts of phsycological hoops just so they can bring themselves to a point in their head that then can trust me enough to service their car. If I was the OP, I'd have seen the signs and told them I had another buyer who had just put down a deposit, "sorry"!

@ned, i would get this bloke straightened out as fast as i could, with regard to going to your employer, as you work in the car business im sure your boss would not approve of rumours that his staff are selling clocked cars in their own time, guilt by association and all that.

@Darragh........ wow, thats some 'tude you have there, you must share what service industry you are in, just so i dont ever have the misfortune to use you.

Darragh29

oleras wrote:

@ned, i would get this bloke straightened out as fast as i could, with regard to going to your employer, as you work in the car business im sure your boss would not approve of rumours that his staff are selling clocked cars in their own time, guilt by association and all that.

@Darragh........ wow, thats some 'tude you have there, you must share what service industry you are in, just so i dont ever have the misfortune to use you.

Good lad, you obviously haven't worked for yourself.

scitpo

But why should they trust somebody they don't know who works in an industry full of scumbags? How do they know that you are fair and honest? You don't.

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

But why should they trust somebody they don't know who works in an industry full of scumbags? How do they know that you are fair and honest? You don't.

If they have been personally recommended they should be trusted. A lot of our business is word of mouth, if you spend years trying to build a good reputation that brings repeat business and word of mouth business, you haven't built this up for being a scumbag. I don't accept that the motor industry is full of scumbags. You are obviously extremely cynical and have major trust issues.

If you don't trust anyone enough to do work on your car, stay away from garages and learn how to do it yourself or else get a bus pass. I often think that the reason a lot of people complain about quality issues with garages is because they try crap with garages that they wouldn't try in a pub or a supermarket.

scitpo

I do have issues with garages. They ripped me off to the tune of e3000 which I have since recovered. Bare faced lying to my face. And I'm not the only one. It doesnt hurt anybody to be cyncial and over the top (except the dignity of the garage owner but who fives a phuck about him) but it can hurt a lot more to be trusting.

And I have started to learn how to do it myself. Its not too easy though and within the next 10 years the DIY mechanic will be extinct as the main garages want hte trade wrapped up for themself.

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

I do have issues with garages. They ripped me off to the tune of e3000 which I have since recovered. Bare faced lying to my face. And I'm not the only one. It doesnt hurt anybody to be cyncial and over the top (except the dignity of the garage owner but who fives a phuck about him) but it can hurt a lot more to be trusting.

You didn't have an issue with a garage, you obviously had an issue with an individual. If you follow your logic to it's obvious conclusion, you can't bring your car to any garage now, you'd have to learn how to do maintenance yourself. You can have a problem with an individual in any industry. We've all been screwed by estate agents for the last ten years but nobody blinks an eyelid.

If you got screwed by a garage to the tune of 3K, which I honestly have some difficulty believing, there must have been some serious scam going on and some major systems failures going on within the business that led to a set of circumstances where someone managed to get 3K off you fraudently.

Mr. Presentable

Ask to see the receipt again. Take it from him and eat it. It's a receipt for tyres. WTF would you give it to him anyway - he can see if they're good.

Eat the receipt.

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

I do have issues with garages. They ripped me off to the tune of e3000 which I have since recovered. Bare faced lying to my face. And I'm not the only one. It doesnt hurt anybody to be cyncial and over the top (except the dignity of the garage owner but who fives a phuck about him) but it can hurt a lot more to be trusting.

And I have started to learn how to do it myself. Its not too easy though and within the next 10 years the DIY mechanic will be extinct as the main garages want hte trade wrapped up for themself.

I cannot think of any job, or indeed any collection of jobs that would result in a a 3K car repair bill unless you are talking crash repairs. The most expensive scam (or attempted scam), I ever witnessed was a customer of mine (he wasn't a customer at the time but was recommended to me for a second opinion after he was quoted over 1600 Euro for a clutch replacement on an Audi TT. A small piece of the metal clutch pdeal broke off and the clutch just went to the floor. Was working fine one minute and useless the next. Car had to be recovered and the garage that recovered it tried to get the repair job, saying that the clutch has collapsed and to fix was over 1600 Euro. The customer got suspicious and made a few phone calls, eventually he ended up talking to me on the phone and I said even if the clutch needed to be replaced, 1600 Euro was almost twice the cost this job should be so be got it recovered over to my garage and it became clear after about 1 minute of investigation that the clutch was fine but a small metal piece had broken off the pedal and due to this, the pedal was not operating the clutch hydraulic cylinder behind the pedal. New pedal cost I think about 60 Euro with plastic fittings and a few pins and clips. Job all together was about 180 or something like that.

The point I'm trying to make is that for every person in the industry who is dishonest, you'll find one who is honest, like in all industries.

scitpo

You know the motoring industry has a disgraceful and well deserved reputation. Why are you trying to defend them if you are one of the good ones? I have in front of me in What Car that in the UK the govt. is to bring in regulation to regulate the industry as they are incapable of regulating themselves. Everybody I know has been ****ed over in some way by garages. Lying about what they just serviced, overcharging adding stuff to the service to the more extreme end of stuff.

Darragh29

scitpo wrote:

You know the motoring industry has a disgraceful and well deserved reputation. Why are you trying to defend them if you are one of the good ones? I have in front of me in What Car that in the UK the govt. is to bring in regulation to regulate the industry as they are incapable of regulating themselves. Everybody I know has been ****ed over in some way by garages. Lying about what they just serviced, overcharging adding stuff to the service to the more extreme end of stuff.

I don't accept this for one minute. How do you know if you bring your car to a garage that they are charging you for parts that you are saying were not supplied at all??? I'm not attempting to defend any person in the trade. You are making wide sweeping statements about "everybody you know having been overcharged in some way by garages", which is just plain nuts! This is typical of people who don't even know what is done to their car when it is serviced, they have a knowledge gap in their own mind so they fear the worst and convince themselves thet they are being conned at every opportunity. The vast majority of people I know in the industry are honest hard working people. The only car servicing/mainenance outlet I've heard of that was caught literally robbing a customer lately was some chain of garages up north that charged a guy for a service that was never done. You really sound like a cynic, it's weird that your own story about having been robbed out of 3K and all of your friends having been overcharged at some stage really is a bit OTT to be honest with ya...

scitpo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3979405.stm
http://www.safefromscams.co.uk/MechanicBillPaddingScam.html

You are wrong. I want you to say that.