Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Peyton Manning

Eh, why not? Am I not allowed to use it?

copacetic

2-1

Jesus Wept

I Torres

Get out of jail card, used.



Any chance the ref blows the second half up early too? Thanks.

copacetic

Archimedes wrote: »

Eh, why not? Am I not allowed to use it?

you can do what you like, I was just wondering why.

kaimera

The magic that is Harry Kewell

Inspired sub :v: Great goal by Torres

Bounty Hunter

liverpool are twice as good a tea when Torres plays.... Liverpool can top the group prehaps now

PENO!

kaimera

Peno!

kaimera

3-1 :v:

Villain

If Marseille draw tonight will a draw do Liverpool in France?

kaimera

Too easy now. Crouch

Kimbot

Not unless Porto Lose. THey have to win in France!!

Guy:Incognito

irish1 wrote: »

If Marseille draw tonight will a draw do Liverpool in France?

Dont think so.


4-1. 2 goals from corners in 1 match :eek:

How do they manage to make such hard work of a 4-1 win?

Villain

jonny24ie wrote: »

Not unless Porto Lose. THey have to win in France!!

Oh **** so all this great play could be in vein!

Jesus Wept

Good news from Turkey!

Bounty Hunter

Besiktas infront again 2-1

kaimera

4-1 win.

Torres MOTM; maybe Kewell :v:

PiE

Whatever about the style of the win... last year we would have rode off into the sunset on a 1-1 draw or 1-2 loss. Guaranteed. Tonight we pulled it outta the bag, a la Man Utd and Chelsea when they need to. Sure it was all down to Torres, but at least we're able to do it now. Pressure is actually turning into goals. Shocker.

On a sidenote, can tonight put a halt to any talk of Quaresma coming to Anfield? Atrocious.

Jazzy

hahahahaha RTE
hahahahaha Dunphy

got it wrong AGAIN
i spose ronaldo is still a puffball and carrick is a "nothing player" still?


great stuff. we win.
decent enough performance
We did that thing ya know "broke them down" and "kept the play in their half"... all that stuff that apparantly they do on the continent and that 2 good teams did last nite that rte like to harp on about.

being hypocritical and not being called on it is great! you can say anything and look professional.

mike65

Nice!

A few points leap out - Gerrard crap tonight for the most part. Babel blows hot and cold. Harry Kewell immediately showed the value of being able to trap and pass a ball.

Crouch super-sub? I'd sooner he started but at least like Shaun Goater he proved if you feed him, he will score.

Mike.

kaimera

Heh, Eamon gone to town on Yossi, Harry, Babel, among others.

Harry has been very good since coming back. Assist for the second goal. No one bar him actually took on and beat a player outwide.

Give him a starting role next time.

Oh, Babel cannot cross the ball. Think of what we might have gotten if someone else had been in the crossing positions he was in. Boo.

Villain

Jazzy wrote: »

carrick is a "nothing player" still?

He sure is most over rated and over valued player of recent times. Crouch is way better than Vorinin

Jesus Wept

RTE: Liverpool lack guts and fight.

lmao! Good jaysais.


RTE: They wouldn't beat Chelsea.

true, can't beat Chelsea in the CL. :D:D:D

kaimera

Heh, we wouldn't have beaten Chelsea playing like that tonight...sure.

Tusky

Phew. Thats 17 goals scored and 1 conceded in the last four games. Torres was the difference today, also thought Finnan had a great game. Babel started off really poor but grew into the game a bit. Kewell was good when he came on, as was Crouch. Dont know why Crouch didnt start...

10 goals so far this season from Torres.

PiE

Whereas Arsenal are the gutsiest team ever.

It'd be funny if these guys weren't getting paid obscene amounts of money.

darkskol

Delighted with win, still all to do in Marseille now who will probably pack the midfield and try and snuff out liverpool...but we have our not so secret weapon...Torres! he really is class.

Kimbot

Crouch and Torres to start in france and we will win it!!

Tusky

Torres is now joint second top scorer with Keane & Fabregas on 10 goals. Ronaldo is on 11. Also, we have scored more than any other team in the champions league!

kaimera

Crouch and Torres to start in france and we will win it!!

That would be the obvious thing but clearly Rafa will think that it won't work; both will start on the bench before coming on with 15 mins to go and scoring a goal a piece to win it.

oobydooby

jonny24ie wrote: »

Crouch and Torres to start in france and we will win it!!

With the Manchester United game a few days afterwards I can see Benitez going with Torres and Kuyt against Porto, with Crouch coming on for the last 20 minutes. I think he'll keep Crouchie rested to shake off united.

Then again, I can see Benitez doing Leaving Cert honours maths problems at night when he picks his teams.

leninbenjamin

based on what ive seen of him recently and tonights performance i think Gerrard is the biggest stumbling block to Liverpool having any kind of short term ambitions to the league. he's a waste of space for 89 minutes of every game it seems.

PiE

Yea recently... for example last Saturday when he ran the show, scoring 1 and creating 2. Useless.

lol @ Alex's goal for Chelsea btw.

whatawaster

leninbenjamin wrote: »

based on what ive seen of him recently and tonights performance i think Gerrard is the biggest stumbling block to Liverpool having any kind of short term ambitions to the league. he's a waste of space for 89 minutes of every game it seems.

I have said it for a long time, and so have many others - Gerrard needs to have two other solid central midfielders around him (2 from Lucas, Mascherano, Alonso or Sissoko) and he needs to be accomodated in the team. There is no doubt though he is a special player and should always be accomodated, be it as part of a three man central midfield or wide on the right or left it doesn't really matter as long as he has that freedom.

Just look at saturday. He was immense.

Poor performance tonight I thought.

Reina - 6 - could he have done better for the goal?
Finnan - 7 - got forward well and put in some decent crosses
Arbeloa - 5 - Terrible marking for the goal.
Carragher - 5 - Sloppy on the ball, gave too many fouls away.
Hyypia - 5 - he has played well recently, but was awful tonight
Mascherano - 6 - so frustrating. He just needs to get on the ball and play simple passes every time.
Gerrard - 5 - His passing was awful. Truly awful. I would have taken him off and brought Lucas on.
Babel - 6 - final ball was poor, though he kept trying to the end.
Benayoun - 5 - I thought he offered absolutely nothing.
Voronin - 5 - Useless. Backup player. Nothing more.
Torres - 9 - immense. The most impressive thing for me is that when we have really needed it he has stepped up to the plate (tottenham, fulham, porto), but everything about his game was great tonight - first touch, holding up ball and obviously finishing.

Kewell - 7
Crouch - 7
Kuyt - 6

Zapp Brannigan

Torres you beauty!

That is all...

Tusky

leninbenjamin wrote: »

based on what ive seen of him recently and tonights performance i think Gerrard is the biggest stumbling block to Liverpool having any kind of short term ambitions to the league. he's a waste of space for 89 minutes of every game it seems.

Recently as in the game at weekend in which he scored and created two other goals? Man of the match easily.

I don't understand the Gerrard bashing. Whats that, 7 goals from the last 8 games for him ? 9 in total for the season. Hes also got the most assists in the team.

Oh and didnt two goals in the game today come from corners he took ? So he got another goal and another two assists today.

Kimbot

Tusky wrote: »

Whats that, 7 goals from the last 8 games for him ? 9 in total for the season. Hes also got the most assists in the team.

Any midfielder would be glad with that amount of goals at this stage of the season!!

Tusky

jonny24ie wrote: »

Any midfielder would be glad with that amount of goals at this stage of the season!!

Think hes got 8 in total so is among the top scorers in the league.

spockety

Pfft, you can use statistics to 'prove' whatever you want.

The SIMPLE.. FACT.. is that:

Gerrard is ****e
Benitez is ****e
Liverpool are ****e
Kuyt is ****e
Kewell should be playing in League 1
etc.

Please people, accept these facts, for they will set you on the path to enlightenment.

:rolleyes:

Zapp Brannigan

Have to say I thought Gerrard was a bit ropey through most of the game. He gave away the ball and didn't get his passing going at all. Still he's one of the best midfielders in the world and everyone has off days.

smithy1981

I thought we were good up until the 1/2 hour mark. The equalizer really shook us tho. Torres really is a class act. And i had to laugh at Andy Gay blaming zonal marking for one of the pool goals. He's been waiting a long time to use that one, as Liverpool have been excellent at defending set pieces in recent months. You wont hear him mention that tho.

Tusky

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Have to say I thought Gerrard was a bit ropey through most of the game. He gave away the ball and didn't get his passing going at all. Still he's one of the best midfielders in the world and everyone has off days.

I agree. Thought he was pretty bad myself.

Posts like this are just silly though -

leninbenjamin wrote: »

based on what ive seen of him recently and tonights performance i think Gerrard is the biggest stumbling block to Liverpool having any kind of short term ambitions to the league. he's a waste of space for 89 minutes of every game it seems.

leninbenjamin

i'm serious on the Gerrard thing. there's something about him i dislike intensely. he shoots too much, he plays too many long balls, he rarely plays quick one touch football that's needed to break down the really tough opponents. he's all effort and drive, which is well and good a lot of the time, but you can't have someone like this at the heart of your creativity if you seriously expect to go places. a lot of the time he takes up space and possession around the box where others would fare better at the intricate football needed to break down certain opponents. i don't think he'll ever go beyond this current level, half the time he's good, half the time he's sh*te. If Liverpool want to win the prem they need more consistency in their key areas, which you're not going to get in an all or nothing player like Gerrard.

both Ferguson and Wenger have oft been criticised for getting rid of fans favourites like van Nistelrooy, Vieira, Kanchelskis, Ince, Henry, Anelka etc. but they've always proved right. I think Benitez has to do the same with Gerrard for the team to progress.

Sajan

Gerrard may not be the best player in the world that the English press make out but to say he is holding the team back is ridiculous. He would play center midfield for ANY team in the premiership. No doubt about that. In fact the only team in Europe in which he would fail to get a game on a regular basis is Barcelona. And many people would agree with that who don't support Liverpool

RTE panel is a disgrace at times. Really pathetic tonight. If that was Arsenal who were beaten they would have applauded them for doing the right things and playing football blah blah blah.. It's boring.

leninbenjamin

Sajan wrote: »

He would play center midfield for ANY team in the premiership. No doubt about that.

I would really dispute that. would he start for United ahead of Scholes? would he start for Arsenal ahead of Fabregas? I don't think any manager in their right mind would...

last night Arsenal fell apart after Cesc went off, yet Cesc wasn't having a great game by his standards. would the same thing happen Liverpool? i don't think so. hasn't it happened before that Lucas has come on instead and gotten them the winner?

PHB

He would play center midfield for ANY team in the premiership. No doubt about that

There is though. If you gave Fergie or Wenger the choice between Scholes or Fabregas and Gerrard, they'd both pick Scholes or Fabregas each time. Why? Gerrard probably outscores and out assists them both, but each of those two central midfielders make their team tick in a way Gerrard has never done for Liverpool, and by the looks of it, never will.
Gerrard is a magical player, but I still don't believe he should ever be part of a 2 man midfield, and to be honest, I'd much prefer him on the right wing. The reason for this? When the ball goes to him, he can do something magical with it, but he is also very very wasteful. As such, he can breakdown a lot of the teams attacks. He also causes a lot of magic. But nobody in the world can ever produce that sort of magic consistantly, it's just impossible.

I think it would be better to say, there isn't a team in the world that Gerrard couldn't get into, but I think if he was at United or Arsenal now, he wouldn't be in the center of the park, he'd be on the right or in the hole, but never the dictator of play.
That said, I think if he had moved away from Liverpool earlier, he would have learnt to bring his other teammates into it. The problem is, his game has developed based around the idea the rest of his team are ****, and he has to either score himself or set it up for them on a platter. This was through in the past, but now, he actually has really good players around him. Alonso, Torres, Kewell, Babel, Yossi are all able to create, are all about to pass and move. They don't need Gerrard to do everything for them, they have the ability to do it themselves. That's why in a large part, Liverpool as a team play better when Gerrard isn't playing. Because the other players play a lot better.

I think this is what leninbenjamin is trying to say, he's still in an individual mindset.

To me, the worst part about it is, that he's able to play that sort of Scholes type game, but is allowed not to. He has the ability to dictate the play, while at the same time producing the magic, but because he's gotten so used to it, doesn't do it. I think Rafa tried to solve this problem by moving him out to the wings, but that can seriously unbalance the team. Infact, I think you might still say that Rafa still hasn't solved the problem of how to get the best out of the team with Gerrard in it.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Great game, great atmosphere, great result. Thought Kewell lookd superb when he came on. Bad luck on the goal too but not to worry.

Just need to beat Marseille now and we are through, if besiktas win we top the group, who would have thought that after Besiktas round 1.

leninbenjamin

PHB wrote: »

I think this is what leninbenjamin is trying to say, he's still in an individual mindset.

yeah you've pretty much summed up exactly what i was trying to say.

Thanx 4 The Fish

leninbenjamin wrote: »

hasn't it happened before that Lucas has come on instead and gotten them the winner?

No it has not happened. You are wrong. Willing to accept you could be wrong about anything else ? :rolleyes:

@PHB, if he, as you say "probably outscores and out assists them both", could he be considered in an individual mindset ?

Tusky

I agree with a lot of your points but I don't think he is AS wasteful or incapable of playing in a two man midfield as you say. Ideally, he would be playing alongside Alonso who is the guy who makes us tick and keeps things going. That shouldn't be Gerrards job. He should be played purely as an attacking force.

Ive changed my mind on what Liverpools best formation is. I think this would work best.

4-3-3 changing to 4-5-1 when defending

---

Alonso--Mascherano

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Kewell

---

Torres

PHB

Em, well Lucas came on and hit that shot that Phil Neville saved with his hand, so yes. Also, when Lucas came on, the team played better