Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

mayordenis

stupid tackle . . . but no real contact and mikel should get a yellow for faffing

Brando_ie

DesF wrote: »

lol

BBC Merseyside calling "absolute nonsense".

Which is it?

It was a red I'm afraid... bit of a comedy two footed challenge by Crouch... but a two footed tackle nonetheless...... Crouch had a MANIC look on his face which could not but draw a smile from me..... lol

Mitch Connor

Pacifico wrote: »

It looked quite ridiculous in the replay.

Don't think it was a red though....

It is a red in the exact same way Ronaldo against Man City a couple of seasons back was a red. It was dangerous and un-needed. Two footed lunges (which is what it was) have no place in the game, and they should be punished with red cards regardless of the contact they make.

Davei141

Ah but crouch is too tall to control his legs, it not his fault they wanted to break mikel in half.

mike65

3 match suspension for Crouch.

Mike.

PDN

Pacifico wrote: »

It looked quite ridiculous in the replay.

Don't think it was a red though....

Short of shooting somebody, what would merit a red card if that insane two footed tackle didn't?

Davei141

PDN wrote: »

Short of shooting somebody, what would merit a red card if that insane two footed tackle didn't?

A stone cold stunner..

yabadabado

that was a comical effort by crouch ,if ur goin get sent off mite aswel make contact

mike65

Benni on for ?

Mike.

RE*AC*TOR

I like Yossi's haircut, very fetching

Davei141

Ah here babel was the only player who could of got us back into it

_blank_

Davei141 wrote: »

A stone cold stunner..

---

I'm disappointed in Crouch.

I think he always comes across as a really nice, humble guy.

Davei141

He is still humble though...he missed mikel, thats nice of him. Personally i think if your gonna get a straight red 2 footed challenge that lands chest height is the only thing that vindicates it IMO

_blank_

Sheva!

dc69

I found lucas a tad disspointing,he seems a bit like lampard ie likes to get foward cant really tacke(although he tries).Itanje good game,sissoko is unbelievably bad as is voronin.babel shouldnt have been tacken off.

chelsea 2-0 joke

Davei141

2-0 ukraine dude...congrats chelseav

mike65

Lucas is a clear prospect, give him a season. The keeper did well tonight it seems. The result should not be a shock Liverpool clearly had Pompey as the priority this week. Crouches absence should cement Torres/Kuyt partnership. Though Torres/Babel is worth exploring.

Finally I hope Alonso was subbed due to tiredness only.

Mike.

Mental Mickey

F**king uselses.............apart from the goalie. Crouch deserved to be sent off. Stupid tackle. I wonder what excuses Rafa will have for putting out such a poor team??? Yer man Voronin baffles me - he does an awful lot of running around, but nothing else....?

I think we'll be waiting for quite a few years for the Premiership title..........:(

mike65

I wonder what excuses Rafa will have for putting out such a poor team???

See my previous post above.

Mike.

Tusky

Crouch should be ashamed of himself. He basically threw away any chance Liverpool had of coming back with that stupid, needless tackle. I thought Liverpool had a good chance of getting a goal back as there was little in it until the lucky lucky deflected goal from Lampard. Itandje played well but thought he should have done better with Shevshenkos shot.

walshki

I wonder if Rafa was trying to prove a point about lack of strength in depth while giving some promising players a chance (I mean Babel and Lucas). I hope we don't see Voronin in the red shirt again (unless its the Man U or Arsenal). I'm getting to that stage with Sissoko aswell because its an awful long time since he produced a decent performance.

Remember Burnley in the FA cup in his first season he put out a bizarre team and when we lost came out and said this shows we don't have a squad. With the January window coming maybe he's trying it again - doesn't make much sense thought he brought in all those players himself. If he thought that selection was going to work then he's a few potatoes short of a spanish omelette.

Melion

Good enough performance up until the goal. Team looked solid and i think thats definitely the formation we should be playing, obviously not the right players in it tonight though. Itandje had a good game, couple of good saves. Maybe could and should have done better with the 2nd chelsea goal, couldnt fault him for anything else over the night though.

Defence was pretty solid, Hobbs was caught out once by Shevchenko, cant remember him doing much else wrong. Aurelio showed why JAR should be nowhere near the first XI til he sorts his form out. Did nothing wrong, and good distribution of the ball. Arbeloa and Carra as solid as ever.

Lucas looked ok, few stray passes but nothing too bad. Alonso showed just why we have missed him so much, unbelivable range of passing and vision. To use the old cliché, it will be like having a new signing when he gets fully fit and going again. I thought Sissoko had a good game, and thats coming from someone who cant stand him. He didnt have too many stray passes and put in some good challenges and looked up for the game.

Babel was about our only threat, looked very lively. Some great runs and reminds me a lot of Henry in his first season at Arsenal. Voronin for all his huffing and puffing around the place just isnt good enough. Crouch had a decent game, kept Ben Haim and Carvalho working, should have done a lot better when he was sent clear though. Definitely deserved his red.

All in all, a disappointing defeat but not that poor a performance.

And to be honest, i dont think Rafa has a clue how to pull a victory out when we are down(i know, i know CL Final, FA Cup final). The only player who looked like scoring was Babel and he got taken off when we needed a goal, he's been doing it a lot this season.

mada999

the team Rafa had out signalled that he wasn't ársed winning it...

I'm sick of seeing 1 up front and Babel on the wing...tis stupid....negative tactics.. There was absolutely no over lapping on the wings, no creativity....

meh.... Rafa please sell voronin, Aurelio, crouch, sissoko... and buy 1 top quality attacking winger!! agggghh..

spockety

walshki wrote: »

I wonder if Rafa was trying to prove a point about lack of strength in depth while giving some promising players a chance (I mean Babel and Lucas). I hope we don't see Voronin in the red shirt again (unless its the Man U or Arsenal). I'm getting to that stage with Sissoko aswell because its an awful long time since he produced a decent performance.

Remember Burnley in the FA cup in his first season he put out a bizarre team and when we lost came out and said this shows we don't have a squad. With the January window coming maybe he's trying it again - doesn't make much sense thought he brought in all those players himself. If he thought that selection was going to work then he's a few potatoes short of a spanish omelette.

Yeah but how many of tonight's team were post-Hicks/Gillett purchases? (i.e. Spending THEIR money)..

Babel... Lucas...

Two of the better performers tonight.

It doesn't matter what players he brought in under the previous owners.. he was stretched financially. Hell, David Moores bought Kuyt out of his own pocket cos the club couldn't afford it. You can't blame Rafa for not building a world class squad without having the dosh to do it.

Looking at the team Chelsea put out, I reckon tonight's Liverpool side put up a decent enough show.

I will tell you what though, based on tonight, and last night's Arse/Blackburn match, I don't think that people saying "the Carling Cup is a worthless load of rubbish" is getting through to the players on the pitch..

Unearthly

spockety wrote: »

Yeah but how many of tonight's team were post-Hicks/Gillett purchases? (i.e. Spending THEIR money)..

Babel... Lucas...

Two of the better performers tonight.

It doesn't matter what players he brought in under the previous owners.. he was stretched financially. Hell, David Moores bought Kuyt out of his own pocket cos the club couldn't afford it. You can't blame Rafa for not building a world class squad without having the dosh to do it.

Looking at the team Chelsea put out, I reckon tonight's Liverpool side put up a decent enough show.

I will tell you what though, based on tonight, and last night's Arse/Blackburn match, I don't think that people saying "the Carling Cup is a worthless load of rubbish" is getting through to the players on the pitch..

Surely with the amount of money he recouped this summer, he hasn't spent that much more money before Hicks/Gillett.

I just see it as he spent much more wisely than the summer before, which was a disaster looking back.

Mr Alan

thought tonights performance was excellent tbh until Crouch got sent off.

Lucas is excellent and he is only get better and better, superb buy from Rafa it looks like.

Crouch was stupid to do wat he did and deserved a red. BUT he barely touched the bloke so i have no idea why he was rolling around like he had just been shot.

Dont think we were really bothered about this tournament to be honest. Trophy is always good, but at least now we have one less thing to worry about.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

Crouch was stupid to do wat he did and deserved a red. BUT he barely touched the bloke so i have no idea why he was rolling around like he had just been shot.

It was Obi Wan, the force made him do it.

Zapp Brannigan

Stupid Crouch, he's a professional he shouldn't have let Mikel goad him into the tackle. Still it was nice of Mikel to do a Robben.

The positives from tonight; Alonso's back. Aurelio looks ready to replace Riise. Lucas looks a fantastic prospect. But that's about it, we need to rollover Pompy on saturday to get our league push back on track.

Kanney

Was anyone really confident of a win here? I sure as hell wasn't but performance wise I was happy, I think Babel is growing more and more and perhaps shouldn't have been taken off. Voronin looks like he wants to shoot from anywhere because he is in poor form. Sissoko i'd say will be offloaded in January. Itandje or Carra for man of the match.
Thought Aurelio was poor too.

Zapp Brannigan

I wasn't expecting a win when I saw that Chelsea had named pretty much their strongest available squad.

Mr Alan

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

The positives from tonight; Alonso's back. Aurelio looks ready to replace Riise. Lucas looks a fantastic prospect. But that's about it, we need to rollover Pompy on saturday to get our league push back on track.

true, alonso had that class about him that we've missed.

thought Babel was dangerous as well

Tusky

As someone else in the hread has said, I think that is our best formation considering the squad we have. albeit with different players starting.

---

Reina

Finnan--Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano--Alonso

---

Gerrard
---Babel

---

Kewell

---

Torres

Something like that ?

dc69

Tusky wrote: »

As someone else in the hread has said, I think that is our best formation considering the squad we have. albeit with different players starting.

---

Reina

Finnan--Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano--Alonso

---

Gerrard
---Babel

---

Kewell

---

Torres

Something like that ?

that looks like a perfect formation and would work well,but i think they really need to push that top diamond up on the flanks,if babel is to play there he need to be very high up,as he had prooved he is not the best winger,kewell can stay futher back or go high up .

I also like that formation becuase if we are to strengthen our first team squad we can do it by buying only one player.I think this team is easily good enough to properly challenge for the league and by getting rid of sissoko and kuyt we can buy quaresma( i keep using him as i think he is a fantastic player) or any other good winger

---

Reina

Finnan--Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano--Alonso

---

Gerrard
---Babel

---

Qauresma

---

Torres

GBX

Im starting to get the feeling it may be time to pass on Voronin to another team for a free transfer unless he gets goals soon. Torres amd Kuyt should bring us some goals. Voronin is trying, but too hard, as said by a previous poster, looks like a cross country runner. Babel is getting better.

I sure hope Benitez gets some funds for the window.

mike65

I got told off for playing two holding MFs when I posted a similair formation a while back!

Mike.

Vokes

Well its one DM (Masch) aka the Destroyer :cool: and then one Holding Midfielder or Regista / Playmaker (Alonso).

...2 different things, technically speaking

Tusky

that looks like a perfect formation and would work well,but i think they really need to push that top diamond up on the flanks,if babel is to play there he need to be very high up,as he had prooved he is not the best winger,kewell can stay futher back or go high up .

Think thats a little unfair. He turned 21 today & its his first season in the premiership. Could turn out to be a great goal scoring winger. My only problem with him being a winger is that he is extremely right footed. So if you're going to play him on the wing, surely it should be on the right and not the left.

He has started to impress me more and more over the last 5 games or so. Always looks dangerous, has started beating his man more often and has some shot on him. Hopefully a star in the making.

~Rebel~

First off, disappointing night.

Was happy with the performance until that 5 minute kick in the nads that was Lamps poxy goal and Crouchs moment of absolute insanity (he actually looks like a nutcase in the replay).

Voronin seems to be taking a lot of stick, i didn't think he was fantastic, but i definately didn't think he was very bad either. He's not particularly suited ot being wide in a 4-3-3 but he handled it well enough, broke some moves down, but kept a lot moving as well and was always looking for a clever pass, which works better with a natural striker like Torres next to him with a similer idea.

Good;
Alonso, fantastic performance, always making himself available to receive the ball, even when he had blue shirts around him. Very cool and composed.

Lucas, looked fantastic while Alonso was on the pitch. Was a bit lost when he was stuck with Sissoko in teh center.

Babel, looked more consistent tonight then in most of his other starts. Not Quite as electric as when he has 25mins to make an impression, but good none the less. NEEDS to be more selfish and have way more shots.

Aurelio, Very Very impressed with him tonight, thought he probably had the best performance, dug us out of trouble a fair few times, particularly when put under pressure by Momo.

Itandje, El Zhar, Hobbs; All looked decent, Hobbs made a mistake when Lampard for in for his first shot, which Itandje kept out well, and El Zhar had a few nice touches when he came on, had a craic at goal set up by Voro but was a very tough angle to get anything out of.

Bad;
Momo. God he was really really bad tonight, for a while I thought he was actually looking decent, was taking the easy passes, but every so often he just made the most rediculous decisions, and he Kept falling over randomly. Once badly leaving Lampard free to run at the back 4, and another really bad one in the box after great play from Babel. He was at the center of most moves breaking down, and though he's got very good feet at times, he just seems to have lost that bit of a footballing brain, or else his eye trouble isstill at him, whichever, he's not really good enough to be playing if we have any intention of him ever being involved in our build up play.




On the topic of 4-3-3, I've been saying for a while i think its possible our best option, since we have Gerrard, Masch and Alonso, we may as well play to their strengths in a formation that also really suits Babel and Torres, and to a point Kewell.

I would prefer a different player to Kewell in the long term, someone with more of an eye for goal (more like the Kewell of Old) with a bit of pace. Benzema, Ben Arfa or Carlos Eduardo would be ideal. I dont think Quaresma though, he's ridiculously inconsistent, is good one game and then missing the next. I was all for him last summer, but since then i've watched him much more closely and struck him off my "wanted" list.


<EDIT> Surprise surprise, in the draw both Chelsea and Arsenal given home ties. I must admit im suspicious, especially as its pretty easy to see what cubes your pulling out, not wrapped or covered in anyway and theres only 4 of em! The lads tonight seemed to be on a Vendetta to prove how important the Carling Cup is. They actually looked offended that Rafa would dare put out a weak team for it. Chelsea have so many players they couldn't put out a weak team if they tried! Would have to go down to their 3rd string.

Apologies for the length!

Unearthly

Rebel the semi final is a 2 legged affair.

So your conspiracy theory is now debunked

IrishMike

Was it just me or did carragher have a bet on as to how far he could kick the ball?
Every single time he got the ball he kicked it aimlessly the length of the field.
Whats even more baffling is that he continued to do this even when crouch went off.
Good defender but his distribution is a complete disgrace.

Sissoko should never be let play for the club again.
Thought crouch was petulant and downright stupid.
Deserved a red and it wouldnt suprise me to see him sold in January.
Looked like he was completely frustrated and something does not look right behind the scenes.
Oh the plus side i thought Hobbs did ok, still very green and was caught badly for the
high ball that Shevchenko chested and eventually Lampard scored from.
Itandje, El Zhar, Babel and Aurellio also done well considering.

Thought lucas was poor when he was expected to play the ball around.
Everyone is saying give him time but i have yet to see him perform to a level anywhere
near what everyone is expecting out of him.
People were saying he is in the same league as anderson, well if he is then Sissoko really
is the new patrick viera

jesus_thats_gre

dc69 wrote: »

---

Reina

Finnan--Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano--Alonso

---

Gerrard
---Babel

---

Qauresma

---

Torres

As I said a few posts back, there is no doubting that this is 1 of 2 systems that Benitez is buying up players to play within. I am confident that this is the case as he is has out and out wingers that keep tight to the touchline while also having wide players that tuck in.

The other system is along the lines of:

---

Reina

---

Finnan--Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

new

---

Gerrard--Alonso

---

new

---

new----Torres

---

~Rebel~

Unearthly wrote: »

Rebel the semi final is a 2 legged affair.

So your conspiracy theory is now debunked

Yeah, like, whatever. Still think its a bit dodgy that they avoided each other in the draw though. Im aware there was a 50-50 chance, but just let me have this one conspiracy!

dc69

IrishMike wrote: »

Thought lucas was poor when he was expected to play the ball around.
Everyone is saying give him time but i have yet to see him perform to a level anywhere
near what everyone is expecting out of him.
People were saying he is in the same league as anderson, well if he is then Sissoko really
is the new patrick viera

although a few posts back i said

dc69 wrote: »

I found lucas a tad disspointing,he seems a bit like lampard ie likes to get foward cant really tacke(although he tries).

I watched the match for a secong time there,concentrating mostly on lucas,he is very similar to gerrard as in he likes to pass and then run accepting the ball back and create chances,if he was more selfish he would have done better.sissoko stopped him from doing anything good as he ruined the whole tempo.

anderson and lucas both started at gremio but you have to realise that anderson played with porto for a couple of seasons,the brazilian league is hugely differant to the premiership and him playing in the portugese league would have helped him adapt to the premiership.lucas has come straight from brazil,he has yet to understand how little time you get on the ball.He was also the main man at gremio,much like torres was at athletico and i think he is nervous about making a mistake and probably does better when he takes it upon himself to score.

hopefully we will see him improove becuase he came with an unbelievable reputation from brazil.from reading other boards apperantly gremio didnt care about selling anderson(andershow as they call him) becuase they thought lucas would be better and they seem to believe that he is a better player.albeit they are differant players.

The Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball)
winners

# 2007 : Thiago Neves (Fluminense)
# 2006 : Lucas (Grêmio)
# 2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
# 2004 : Robinho (Santos FC)
# 2003 : Alex (Cruzeiro)
# 2002 : Kaká (São Paulo FC)
# 2001 : Alex Mineiro (Atlético Paranaense)
# 2000 : Romario (Vasco da Gama)

if he is anywhere near as good as kaka or tevez or robinho we are onto a winner,notice anderson's name isnt on the list:)

this was on bbc uk's website,phil vickery their south american foorball expert answered this question

Who is Lucas Leiva? What is his true position? And based on a previous article about South American youngsters leaving too early, eg. Gabriel Paletta, is Lucas ready to come to the Premiership just yet?
Mark Williams, Leamington Spa (and many others)

These moves are always a gamble, but I think this is a good one.

He's an exciting player of a type that Brazilian football hasn't produced too many of recently. Of late their central midfielders have tended to be 'holders' who sit and allow the full-backs to push forward.

Lucas is different. He's a big, blonde figure whose power and physical strength comes with attacking ability.

He can pass well and loves to rumble forward. He gets on the scoresheet both with blistering shots from range and from bursting beyond the strikers.

You can certainly imagine him playing alongside Javier Mascherano, for example.

I don't have the same fears for him as I did with Paletta. He's had two full seasons behind him - one helping Gremio win promotion from the second division, and then last year's success when he was chosen as the player of the championship.

In a perfect world you might want him to stay another year before moving on, but (a) Gremio need to sell to balance the books and (b) with Liverpool's strength in depth in central midfield it looks as if his first campaign will be a bedding in season.

el dude

IrishMike wrote: »

Thought lucas was poor when he was expected to play the ball around.
Everyone is saying give him time but i have yet to see him perform to a level anywhere
near what everyone is expecting out of him.
People were saying he is in the same league as anderson, well if he is then Sissoko really
is the new patrick viera

Your fecking mental! It never ceases to amaze me how people can have such contrasting views on players. Lucas was very good in the first half. He's got everything imo. Totally different player to Anderson, who I've thought has looked good, but ONLY good mind.

Tusky

I think Anderson & Lucas both look like great players. The main difference at this early stage is that Anderson has had more of a run in the Utd team. When Lucas has played it has usually been with lesser players around him (The Carling Cup). If he was starting week in week out as Anderson is doing for utd, we would see him progress faster Im sure. I think hes doing fantastic thus far.

Lucas(7) - 4 starts, 3 sub
Anderson(15) - 11 starts, 4 sub

The main reason Anderson has had a good go in the utd squad is because of injuries, but it has paid off. Utd fans will tell you that while he always showed talent, its only been the last few games that he has really started to shine.

el dude

dc69 wrote: »

anderson and lucas both started at gremio but you have to realise that anderson played with porto for a couple of seasons,the brazilian league is hugely differant to the premiership and him playing in the portugese league would have helped him adapt to the premiership.

Sorry, you're being silly. I like that your defending Lucas, but you really don't have to. First of all, how is playing in Portugal in any way going to help Anderson settle in the Premiership, how many games did he even play for Porto, something like 17 i think.

Fact is Lucas hasn't looked out of his depth in any of the games he's played in, much like Anderson hasn't. Neither have set the world alight. But Anderson has played more often and in a side being fawned over by the media so of course he getting praised heaped on him.

Irish Mike statement is just fcuking ludicrous and daft in the extreme. As if Anderson is someone who can be held up and compared to as if he's already been their and done that. Outrageous. Lcas AND Anderson will be two of Brazil's most important players within the next few years. You can fcuking quote me on that.

el dude

Tusky wrote: »

I think Anderson & Lucas both look like great players. The main difference at this early stage is that Anderson has had more of a run in the Utd team. When Lucas has played it has usually been with lesser players around him (The Carling Cup). If he was starting week in week out as Anderson is doing for utd, we would see him progress faster Im sure. The guy has played less than 10 games for us. I think hes doing fantastic thus far.

Spot on sir!! Well done.

leninbenjamin

Tusky wrote: »

I think Anderson & Lucas both look like great players. The main difference at this early stage is that Anderson has had more of a run in the Utd team. When Lucas has played it has usually been with lesser players around him (The Carling Cup). If he was starting week in week out as Anderson is doing for utd, we would see him progress faster Im sure. The guy has played less than 10 games for us. I think hes doing fantastic thus far.

I agree i think Lucas is going to be pretty damn good with whatever team finally gives him a break. i'd question though if he'll ever be given the proper chance under Rafa to develop, to the casual observer his rotation policy seems to really hamper players development.

dc69

leninbenjamin wrote: »

'd question though if he'll ever be given the proper chance under Rafa to develop, to the casual observer his rotation policy seems to really hamper players development.

I would agree with that 100% imo if we dont sell momo in january and have alonso,momo,mascherano and gerrard,he should be loaned to a lower division premiership team or chamionship team for experience

Tusky

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I agree i think Lucas is going to be pretty damn good with whatever team finally gives him a break. i'd question though if he'll ever be given the proper chance under Rafa to develop, to the casual observer his rotation policy seems to really hamper players development.

Hmm - surely rotating would give new and younger players more of a chance in the team ? Anyway, we have Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso in CM, Lucas was never going to walk into the team no matter how good he is. I like how Rafa is introducing him gently. Its a pity we were knocked out of the Carling cup as it would have been a good place to give him some match time.