Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

PHB

I think he's saying that the other top 4 have 4-5 world class players, while Liverpool only have 2/3/4.

el rabitos

Mr Alan wrote: »

so much wrong with this post its beyond belief

cool. dumb it down for me then. what exactly is liverpools game plan? explain to me, who is clearly seeing something different to the rest of you (exept for phb amazingly enough) when we play, because what i see is completely different.

i see a team whos whole gameplan is based ENTIRELY on the oppositions gameplan. we hound and hound teams until they make a mistake, then we score from it, that seems to be the plan.

against european teams not used to the premiership style, ya know, teams that actually play football, this tactic is usually pretty shocking and they do make mistakes, this works for us, note the 2 champions league finals in the past 3 years.

against the average premiership teams, newcastle and the like, we're usually pretty successfull, they try to play football, which usually results in them making the mistakes we need.

against the cannon fodder of the premiership it works sometimes and doesnt the others, why? because against the likes of derby and reading they surrender so much of the ball that pool actually havent a clue what to do with it, we fast run out of ideas, no pattern of play, no wingers, no options, they nick a goal, we lose.

against the other top 4 we struggle majorly, why? because they dont surrender possesion, and we do, and they dont run out of ideas and they score, and we dont, and they win.

thats the problem, thats where we drop the points, thats why we drop the points, clearly we're not seeing the same thing, but ive been watching the same thing for almost 4 years, it starts getting a bit obvious....all imo of course, but sure whats your take on it mr.alan or did u just have a witty comment instead of an opinion to share?

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

im not saying i completely agree with everything in that post but can you please explain to me why it is so wrong its beyond belief?

United rely on two players more than anyone in the league imo, Rooney and Ronaldo . . . . Chelsea are next in my opinion with Drogba and Lampard. Then its between us and Arsenal.

Now i understand that its all opinion, but i seriously think anyone who thinks we are MORE dependant than the other top 4 needs their head examined.

since the first international break.....

Liverpool vs Portsmouth: 4-1
Marseille vs Liverpool: 0-4
Liverpool vs Bolton: 4-0
Liverpool vs Porto: 4-1
Newcastle vs Liverpool: 3-0
Liverpool vs Besiktas: 8-0

I'll reiterate..... that post was bollox

Thanx 4 The Fish

But surely if you think that is what he is saying then it is neither plain or simple.

PHB

Perhaps I do love these fortnightly why Liverpool are crap threads

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

I think he's saying that the other top 4 have 4-5 world class players, while Liverpool only have 2/3/4.

World Class: Reina,Carra,Mascherano,Alonso,Gerrard,Torres

Will be world class within the next 2 years: Agger,Lucas,Babel

Unearthly

Mr Alan wrote: »

United rely on two players more than anyone in the league imo, Rooney and Ronaldo . . . . Chelsea are next in my opinion with Drogba and Lampard. Then its between us and Arsenal.

Now i understand that its all opinion, but i seriously think anyone who thinks we are MORE dependant than the other top 4 needs their head examined.

since the first international break.....

Liverpool vs Portsmouth: 4-1
Marseille vs Liverpool: 0-4
Liverpool vs Bolton: 4-0
Liverpool vs Porto: 4-1
Newcastle vs Liverpool: 3-0
Liverpool vs Besiktas: 8-0

I'll reiterate..... that post was bollox

Christ on a bike

I presume you mean Rooney and Ronaldo?

Rio Ferdinand is probably the best defender in the premiership at the moment

Carlos Tevez is better than any other top 4 teams 2nd striker

Anderson is a very promising midfielder

Hargreaves is excellent when fit

Vidic is excellent

Evra is the best fullback in the league

Tusky

el rabitos wrote: »

bollox, no "top 4" team relies on the same 2 players more than we do. so do us a favour and shut up defending sub par crap. with players of the calibre that are in that team we should be able to play football, instead we've barely played anything resembling a good game since the first international break.

struggling against derby ffs

I already said that it was a terrible performance, I'm not defending that.

The likes of Ronaldo, Drogba & Fabregas earn their teams points constantly throughout the season wither the team deserve them or not. Im happy to see the same thing happen for us with Torres and Gerrard. Just think its a little rich to moan right after a win. Doesn't do much for the cliched image of the moany Liverpool supporter.

kryogen wrote: »

ill put this one in plainly and simply for you guys

Chelsea:
Cech,Terry,Lampard,Drogba........Carvallho,Essien,Cole

Arsenal:
Toure,Fabregas,Van Persie,Adebayor.......Hleb,Rosicky,Flamini

Man United:
VDS,Rio,Ronaldo,Rooney........Hargeaves,Vidic,Anderson,Tevez,Evra

Liverpool:
Reina? Carra? gerrard,torres

theres the difference..............

Heh. Well when you put it like that. Although a more reasonable person would probably say

Reina, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres

Whats with the marks ?


This page of this thread is a sham. Liverpool played terrible today but got a result thanks to their two best players, Torres & Gerrard. Do we really have to have a discussion on if Liverpool are any good or not after every game ?

When Utd narrowly beat Everton thanks to a (correct) penalty decision last week, there were no Liverpool fans pulling apart the utd team and calling them ****. Why the constant need to criticize ?

kryogen

PHB wrote: »

I think he's saying that the other top 4 have 4-5 world class players, while Liverpool only have 2/3/4.

yup, thnx for showing some intelligence! the order isnt important, the question marks are literally that, question marks, are they really world class?? the dots separating players are to define who is most important to the team and the next group who are very important to the team but to a slightly lesser extent.

~Rebel~

kryogen wrote:

ill put this one in plainly and simply for you guys

Chelsea:
Cech,Terry,Lampard,Drogba........Carvallho,Essien,Cole

Arsenal:
Toure,Fabregas,Van Persie,Adebayor.......Hleb,Rosicky,Flamini

Man United:
VDS,Rio,Ronaldo,Rooney........Hargeaves,Vidic,Anderson,Tevez,Evra

Liverpool:
Reina? Carra? gerrard,torres

theres the difference..............

is this like a puzzle?
I think the answer is,
Reina, Carra, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres.....Mascherano, Agger, Lucas, Babel

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Perhaps I do love these fortnightly why Liverpool are crap threads

considering you usually start them that aint suprising!

PHB

Indeed

Mr. Alan, I find that post really odd. Are you saying Alonso or Macherano are in the same league as Gerrard? Is Reina in that league? Do you honestly believe that you think those players are in the same league as Gerrard.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

World Class: Reina,Carra,Mascherano,Alonso,Gerrard,Torres

Will be world class within the next 2 years: Agger,Lucas,Babel

almost choked on my dinner while laughing at this

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

almost choked on my dinner while laughing at this

maybe if i type it up again ya can choke properly this time? happy christmas

el rabitos

Tusky wrote: »

Doesn't do much for the cliched image of the moany Liverpool supporter.

i'd rather be in the moany camp (i'm not btw, just fed up) than part of the...

"this season is ours"
"but we have a game in hand"
"but we have 2 games in hand and the best defence"
"next season is ours"

christ, i cant pick a camp to be in...i think i'll just be realistic

Thanx 4 The Fish

kryogen wrote: »

yup, thnx for showing some intelligence! the order isnt important, the question marks are literally that, question marks, are they really world class?? the dots separating players are to define who is most important to the team and the next group who are very important to the team but to a slightly lesser extent.

Are you serious ?

For showing some intelligence ? You put in a bunch of names seperated with dots and a bunch of question marks. Then you congratulate somebody for being able to decipher this DaVinci Codeesque of a post by suggesting that I exhibit no intelligence. see what Iin did there ?

Once again your post was neither plain nor simple and PHB had to guess what you were getting at, you posted in a manner purposely dismissive of the qualities of a number of liverpool players in order to get a response and when it was not the response you expected you try to make out that I am thick. Fair play :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Indeed

Mr. Alan, I find that post really odd. Are you saying Alonso or Macherano are in the same league as Gerrard? Is Reina in that league? Do you honestly believe that you think those players are in the same league as Gerrard.

Well its near impossible to compare players from a different position, but i am of the belief that Reina is among the top 2 goalies in England, so yes, Reina is world class.

Mascherano is tough to compare to Gerrard, they are very different players, but again, i am off the belief that Mascherano is among the top holding midfielders in world football.

my point was, as much as you might like to argue it.....the "core" of liverpools team is as strong as any in England.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Mr Alan wrote: »

maybe if i type it up again ya can choke properly this time? happy christmas

We can always hope I suppose

Peyton Manning

Fact of the matter is that the only world class players at Liverpool are Gerrard (which itself is debateable but on his day, he is admittedly phenomenal) and Torres. The likes of Carragher and Reina, while they are good players, are not world class but they are a couple of levels below that. Mascherano would probably be at that level too, but only just. Alonso is nowhere near it.

Your point about Lucas and Babel arent valid - just take a look at the newly rejuvenated Best Young Player in the World thread!

Tusky

el rabitos wrote: »

i'd rather be in the moany camp (i'm not btw, just fed up) than part of the...

"this season is ours"
"but we have a game in hand"
"but we have 2 games in hand and the best defence"
"next season is ours"

christ, i cant pick a camp to be in...i think i'll just be realistic

Can you point out anyone saying 'this season is ours' please because I havent seen any posts like that. At the start of the season and through our good run of form, people were saying we would challenge for the title. Noone was saying 'we are definitely going to win'.

el rabitos wrote: »

cool. dumb it down for me then. what exactly is liverpools game plan? explain to me, who is clearly seeing something different to the rest of you (exept for phb amazingly enough) when we play, because what i see is completely different.

i see a team whos whole gameplan is based ENTIRELY on the oppositions gameplan. we hound and hound teams until they make a mistake, then we score from it, that seems to be the plan.

against european teams not used to the premiership style, ya know, teams that actually play football, this tactic is usually pretty shocking and they do make mistakes, this works for us, note the 2 champions league finals in the past 3 years.

against the average premiership teams, newcastle and the like, we're usually pretty successfull, they try to play football, which usually results in them making the mistakes we need.

against the cannon fodder of the premiership it works sometimes and doesnt the others, why? because against the likes of derby and reading they surrender so much of the ball that pool actually havent a clue what to do with it, we fast run out of ideas, no pattern of play, no wingers, no options, they nick a goal, we lose.

against the other top 4 we struggle majorly, why? because they dont surrender possesion, and we do, and they dont run out of ideas and they score, and we dont, and they win.

thats the problem, thats where we drop the points, thats why we drop the points, clearly we're not seeing the same thing, but ive been watching the same thing for almost 4 years, it starts getting a bit obvious....all imo of course, but sure whats your take on it mr.alan or did u just have a witty comment instead of an opinion to share?

Doesnt sound like you enjoy watching Liverpool play. Why dont you just stop then ?

Archimedes wrote: »

Fact of the matter is that the only world class players at Liverpool are Gerrard (which itself is debateable but on his day, he is admittedly phenomenal) and Torres. The likes of Carragher and Reina, while they are good players, are not world class but they are a couple of levels below that. Mascherano would probably be at that level too, but only just. Alonso is nowhere near it.

Your point about Lucas and Babel arent valid - just take a look at the newly rejuvenated Best Young Player in the World thread!

Youre entitled to your opinion, its a pretty silly one though. Again with the word 'world class' thrown around by people who probably watch very little world football. Be honest, how much La Liga & Seria A do you watch ? If you watch as much as I expect you do, you cant throw around the word like you do. Lets just say, Liverpool have lots of very good players, so do utd, Chelsea & Arsenal.

el rabitos

Tusky wrote: »

Doesnt sound like you enjoy watching Liverpool play. Why dont you just stop then ?

who the hell would enjoy watching liverpool play that isnt a fan? come on ffs

Mr Alan

Archimedes wrote: »

Fact of the matter is that the only world class players at Liverpool are Gerrard (which itself is debateable but on his day, he is admittedly phenomenal) and Torres. The likes of Carragher and Reina, while they are good players, are not world class but they are a couple of levels below that. Mascherano would probably be at that level too, but only just. Alonso is nowhere near it.

But let me guess . . .

you reckon VDS,Vidic,Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tevez are world class!?

kryogen

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Are you serious ?

For showing some intelligence ? You put in a bunch of names seperated with dots and a bunch of question marks. Then you congratulate somebody for being able to decipher this DaVinci Codeesque of a post by suggesting that I exhibit no intelligence. see what Iin did there ?

Once again your post was neither plain nor simple and PHB had to guess what you were getting at, you posted in a manner purposely dismissive of the qualities of a number of liverpool players in order to get a response and when it was not the response you expected you try to make out that I am thick. Fair play :rolleyes:

all i can do here is presume your joking, although maybe you are thick, only you really know the answer to that

mayordenis

i'm actually at a loss to how anyone can think reina is not world class, and gerrard isn't as good as alonso but any stretch of the imagination

Unearthly

Tusky wrote: »

Doesnt sound like you enjoy watching Liverpool play. Why dont you just stop then ?

Come off it, he made a constructive post with his concerns about the team he supports. He wants Liverpool to win leagues etc, he doesn't think it will happen under the current regime. Do you think Derby fans enjoyed watching their team getting thumped 6-0 etc? Should they stop?

You have no right to suggest he should stop watching

tibor

Only saw the 2nd half, but it was very poor.

Derby created more clear-cut chances, with Liverpool reduced to 30 yarders.
Showed a lack of ideas going forward, and the passing was woeful.
Hopefully they can make up for it against City.

Peyton Manning

No I only believe we have 4 world class players. Ronaldo, Rooney, and 2 you mentioned in Rio and Vidic.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

maybe if i type it up again ya can choke properly this time?

lol

my point was, as much as you might like to argue it.....the "core" of liverpools team is as strong as any in England.

While I don't agree with that, as I think the other 3 have at least one extra top class player, maybe more, I think in general the other squads are stronger, and I think that is being shown this season. Of course players are difficult to compare, but I can safely say I think Scholes/Rooney/Ronaldo/Ferdinand/Evra are all in the same league, and I would say that without hesitation. The only question is whether I think Ronaldo is a slightly higher league than the rest (and pretty much everyone else for that matter :P)

I don't think you really believe Alonso and Mascherano are in the same league as Torres. Look at it this way, you would say Torres is as good a striker as Fabregas is a midfielder. But I can't imagine you think Alonso or Mascherano are as good as Fabregas. I think the reason Torres has caused such a stir among Liverpool fans is because finally somebody is at Gerrards level.

Tusky

el rabitos wrote: »

who the hell would enjoy watching liverpool play that isnt a fan? come on ffs

At times this season Liverpool have been very entertaining in my opinion. Not consistently so. Lets not forget that they have scored more goals than utd this season Doesnt make them a better team, doesnt make them more entertaining, but saying that noone would enjoy watching them if they aint a fan is rubbish. Recent games that come to mind as being enjoyable.

Liverpool 4 - 1 Portsmouth
Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas
Liverpool 4 - 0 Porto
Liverpool 3 - 0 Newcastle

While I don't agree with that, as I think the other 3 have at least one extra top class player, maybe more, I think in general the other squads are stronger, and I think that is being shown this season.

Id agree with this and have no problem admitting it. The way some people on here talk you would think it was Torres, Gerrard and 9 retards with no arms of legs playing each game though.

mike65

Christ on a bike! Liverpool played crap and won, move along. Nothing to see here.

Mike.

Mr Alan

He suggested Liverpool havent done well since the first international break, his point was nonsense, we have been banging in goals for fun up until last week.

Some people just enjoy a moan, he is obviously one of them and that alright, but he cant expect to post nonsense without being pulled up on it

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote:

my point was, as much as you might like to argue it.....the "core" of liverpools team is as strong as any in England.

Exactly, its the rest of the team that needs to be upgraded, with the current inhabiters shifting down a level to backup.

Even when we get playing nice football it becomes clear. Its always the same 2 or 3 players that miss a pass or get themselves into trouble and stop an otherwise fluid movement. Sissoko and Riise for example are firmly in this camp, with Yossi, Kuyt and Voro all giving their fair share of input into this as well.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

But let me guess . . .

you reckon VDS,Vidic,Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tevez are world class!?

i would personally have rio,vidic,scholes,ronaldo,rooney and evra as our current world class players, i cant include neville or giggs at the moment, followed closely enough by Tevez, hargreaves and possibly anderson...... you cant say alonso is world class,well you can say it, but that doesnt make it true you know

Thanx 4 The Fish

Archimedes wrote: »

Fact of the matter is that the only world class players at Liverpool are Gerrard (which itself is debateable but on his day, he is admittedly phenomenal) and Torres. The likes of Carragher and Reina, while they are good players, are not world class but they are a couple of levels below that. Mascherano would probably be at that level too, but only just. Alonso is nowhere near it.

Your point about Lucas and Babel arent valid - just take a look at the newly rejuvenated Best Young Player in the World thread!

What do you mean fact ? You have contradicted yourself in this post. Do you not even realise this, Torres and Gerrard are the only world class player, oh hang on Mascherano is too.... and alonso is definitely not despite being a full spanish international when fit.

and how can somebody elses point not be valid ? Are you clairvoyant ? can you tell me definitively that because something happened on a different thread on a Message board which has in its user group (as far as I can tell) absolutely no international managers or even premiership managers that thsi player is not going to make it ? :rolleyes: If you want to come on and say "Ooooh I am a Man U fan and don't like liverpool so since it is Christmas and that I think I will go to the pool thread and tell them how much I hate them" just do it, don't try to dress it up as a well thought out post.

Thanx 4 The Fish

kryogen wrote: »

i would personally have rio,vidic,scholes,ronaldo,rooney and evra as our current world class players, i cant include neville or giggs at the moment, followed closely enough by Tevez, hargreaves and possibly anderson...... you cant say alonso is world class,well you can say it, but that doesnt make it true you know

just as you saying that those guys above are world class does not make it so.

And you saying that Alonso is not world class does not make it true.

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

i would personally have rio,vidic,scholes,ronaldo,rooney and evra as our current world class players, i cant include neville or giggs at the moment, followed closely enough by Tevez, hargreaves and possibly anderson...... you cant say alonso is world class,well you can say it, but that doesnt make it true you know

this is getting boring, but you having scholes in there is hilarious!

i may as well add sissoko to my list in that case!

mike65

As of now

1Man Utd---19--27----45
2Arsenal----18--21----43
3Chelsea---19--15

---

37
4Liverpool--18--21

---

36

For such a thoughly underwhelming side of "not world class" players we're going alright.

Mike.

Attractive Nun

To be fair, I think Liverpool do rely on their big two more than the rest of the big 4, at least in an attacking sense. Of course every team will have players they rely on, and when Fernando Torres is in your team, obviously he's going to be the main man, but when you look at who else Liverpool have backing up Torres and Gerrard, I think that's where the problem lies.

At United, Ronaldo is the main man. If he doesn't perform or isn't playing (which is rare), we have problems. There are three decent wingers in the squad to replace him directly, but more importantly there are players who can do something different. Scholes, for one, can work wonders in attack. Rooney and Tevez can both offer genuine threats up front, and Saha, Giggs, Nani and Park have all proven themselves to be able to provide a threat.

At Chelsea, Drogba is a similarly huge loss as Ronaldo. But they can shift their attack to wingers like Cole, Malouda or SWP. They have Ballack and Lampard breaking from the front of midfield. Even Shevchenko and Kalou are decent strikers as backup.

At Arsenal, Abebayor and Van Persie are similarly good up front. Fabregas is obviously a threat in the middle of the park, and a big loss in general play, but in an attacking sense Arsenal can compensate with the likes of Rosicky and Hleb able to attack well.


At Liverpool, and I am trying to be fair, if you take away Torres and Gerrard from the attack, you are left with very little. Babel has shown glimpses, as has Benayoun sort of. Alonso hasn't done it in an attacking sense for a while. But when it comes to a long season, your big players aren't going to do it every week, and I don't think Liverpool have the attacking talent of United, Chelsea or Arsenal when it comes to backing up their biggest players. While decent players, the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Voronin, Crouch and Benayoun just aren't good enough to be relied upon by a team with title-winning aspirations.

kryogen

are you ****tin me? you are actually saying that paul scholes is not world class? i now understand why you support liverpool, you obviously have very limited knowledge of the game, and thanx for the fish, xabi alonso is not world class. that is a widely accepted fact... dont have your period over that point please ok, i am getting close to trolling as im on life tilt by a couple of these posts, ill return later when ive calmed down......

Peyton Manning

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

What do you mean fact ? You have contradicted yourself in this post. Do you not even realise this, Torres and Gerrard are the only world class player, oh hang on Mascherano is too.... and alonso is definitely not despite being a full spanish international when fit.

and how can somebody elses point not be valid ? Are you clairvoyant ? can you tell me definitively that because something happened on a different thread on a Message board which has in its user group (as far as I can tell) absolutely no international managers or even premiership managers that thsi player is not going to make it ? :rolleyes: If you want to come on and say "Ooooh I am a Man U fan and don't like liverpool so since it is Christmas and that I think I will go to the pool thread and tell them how much I hate them" just do it, don't try to dress it up as a well thought out post.

Hang on there mate, no need to get your knickers in a twist. I said Gerrard and Torres were your only world class players, where did I say anything about Mascherano being world class? Do not put words in my mouth, especially ones that are hilariously and blatantly untrue.

~Rebel~

Archimedes wrote:

Your point about Lucas and Babel arent valid - just take a look at the newly rejuvenated Best Young Player in the World thread!

First off, World class is a silly representation of a player. Everyone has a different status of what is world class. Even the name itself is silly. The only real genuine representation of that phrase i can think of is that if there were a World 11 that these people would be in it, which obviously means there can only be 11 world class players, and their "class" is defined by the competition in that position. IMO World Class = The Very Very Best in the world. Not the best 40CB's, the best 30 strikers etc etc.

Im not sure what the comparison is between Babel and Ajax and the Young Player thread though...That thread seems largely to have been about players who were great underagers rather then those who have already done it at senior level for their respective teams (Ajax and Holland, and Gremio and Brazil[has his first senior caps under his belt after captaining the youths] respectively).

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

are you ****tin me? you are actually saying that paul scholes is not world class? i now understand why you support liverpool, you obviously have very limited knowledge of the game, and thanx for the fish, xabi alonso is not world class. that is a widely accepted fact... dont have your period over that point please ok, i am getting close to trolling as im on life tilt by a couple of these posts, ill return later when ive calmed down......

Paul Scholes hasnt been world class for at least three years.

He is one of the best players of his generation, an amazing player, BUT he is well past it.

~Rebel~

kryogen wrote:

i now understand why you support liverpool, you obviously have very limited knowledge of the game

What, pray tell, Is this ^ supposed to mean?

Peyton Manning

~Rebel~ wrote: »

First off, World class is a silly representation of a player. Everyone has a different status of what is world class. Even the name itself is silly. The only real genuine representation of that phrase i can think of is that if there were a World 11 that these people would be in it, which obviously means there can only be 11 world class players, and their "class" is defined by the competition in that position. IMO World Class = The Very Very Best in the world. Not the best 40CB's, the best 30 strikers etc etc.

Im not sure what the comparison is between Babel and Ajax and the Young Player thread though...That thread seems largely to have been about players who were great underagers rather then those who have already done it at senior level for their respective teams (Ajax and Holland, and Gremio and Brazil[has his first senior caps under his belt after captaining the youths] respectively).

I know what you mean, what Im saying is though, is that Mr Alan said that they will be world class. But who is to say that will happen? They might not progress any further. I mean, just look at John O'Shea...

Tusky

Attractive Nun wrote: »

To be fair, I think Liverpool do rely on their big two more than the rest of the big 4, at least in an attacking sense. Of course every team will have players they rely on, and when Fernando Torres is in your team, obviously he's going to be the main man, but when you look at who else Liverpool have backing up Torres and Gerrard, I think that's where the problem lies.

At United, Ronaldo is the main man. If he doesn't perform or isn't playing (which is rare), we have problems. There are three decent wingers in the squad to replace him directly, but more importantly there are players who can do something different. Scholes, for one, can work wonders in attack. Rooney and Tevez can both offer genuine threats up front, and Saha, Giggs, Nani and Park have all proven themselves to be able to provide a threat.

At Chelsea, Drogba is a similarly huge loss as Ronaldo. But they can shift their attack to wingers like Cole, Malouda or SWP. They have Ballack and Lampard breaking from the front of midfield. Even Shevchenko and Kalou are decent strikers as backup.

At Arsenal, Abebayor and Van Persie are similarly good up front. Fabregas is obviously a threat in the middle of the park, and a big loss in general play, but in an attacking sense Arsenal can compensate with the likes of Rosicky and Hleb able to attack well.


At Liverpool, and I am trying to be fair, if you take away Torres and Gerrard from the attack, you are left with very little. Babel has shown glimpses, as has Benayoun sort of. Alonso hasn't done it in an attacking sense for a while. But when it comes to a long season, your big players aren't going to do it every week, and I don't think Liverpool have the attacking talent of United, Chelsea or Arsenal when it comes to backing up their biggest players. While decent players, the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Voronin, Crouch and Benayoun just aren't good enough to be relied upon by a team with title-winning aspirations.

This is actually a pretty good post although maybe a little unfair. If you are going to include Park, Nani, Shevshenko, Kalou, Ballack for other teams than the likes of Babel (5 goals), Benayoun (6 goals), Kewell (5 assists in recent weeks) have to be included for Liverpool.

I would agree that we are lacking a couple of top attacking players though.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

Paul Scholes hasnt been world class for at least three years.

He is one of the best players of his generation, an amazing player, BUT he is well past it.

Paul Scholes was the best CM in the Premiership last season and has done very well this season until his injury. Your definition of past it makes me wish our whole squad was past it.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Mea culpe I am sorry for suggesting that you would say Mascherano is world class. How could a player who in the 2006 World Cup, played every minute of every game for Argentina and was widely touted as the best player at the Copa America this year be considered world class ???:rolleyes: confirms what I said in my first response to you TBH.

Mr Alan

ok, apologies, but obviously i meant that i THINK they will be world class from wat they have shown so far.... as you i'm sure think the same about Anderson,Vidic(i think he needs another 12 months at the level of his last 12 months before he can world class)

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, apologies, but obviously i meant that i THINK they will be world class from wat they have shown so far.... as you i'm sure think the same about Anderson,Vidic(i think he needs another 12 months at the level of his last 12 months before he can world class)

True. You'd expect them to be world class, but yet again I must direct you towards a mister O'Shea, first name John.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

lol
While I don't agree with that, as I think the other 3 have at least one extra top class player, maybe more, I think in general the other squads are stronger, and I think that is being shown this season. Of course players are difficult to compare, but I can safely say I think Scholes/Rooney/Ronaldo/Ferdinand/Evra are all in the same league, and I would say that without hesitation. The only question is whether I think Ronaldo is a slightly higher league than the rest (and pretty much everyone else for that matter :P)

I don't think you really believe Alonso and Mascherano are in the same league as Torres. Look at it this way, you would say Torres is as good a striker as Fabregas is a midfielder. But I can't imagine you think Alonso or Mascherano are as good as Fabregas. I think the reason Torres has caused such a stir among Liverpool fans is because finally somebody is at Gerrards level.

While your post makes some sense I really dont see the point of it. Mascherano & Alonso are great players, who cares if they are not on the same 'level' as Torres & Gerrard (this is debatable). I would rate Ronaldo & Rooney much higher than Ferdinand & Evra...but it doesnt really matter. They are all great players.