Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

Archimedes wrote: »

Paul Scholes was the best CM in the Premiership last season and has done very well this season until his injury. Your definition of past it makes me wish our whole squad was past it.

he really wasnt.

HYPE was the key word around Paul scholes last year, he was praised to the high heavens for his decent season (note that i said "decent", not world class) because he battled back from a career threatening injury.

DSB

People really need to stop referring to opinions as fact. It just makes you look silly.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yeah, how long did he play for a world class international team, as far as I can work out he played or the republic.

PHB

My point tusky is about the core of Liverpools team not being quite strong enough. The dross defo aren't, but I think they are still lacking another player like Torres in attack.

Either way, I think el rabitos hit the money right on the button in terms of how Rafa approaches games. I think think he has a way that he wants to see Liverpool play, he approaches each game like a tactical battle, and he wins most of them. However, if you approach games like this, eventually you are gona get it wrong, as nobodies perfect. Making your team play in a certain way is a much more feasible way to win the league.

~Rebel~

Tusky wrote:

While your post makes some sense I really dont see the point of it. Mascherano & Alonso are great players, who cares if they are not on the same 'level' as Torres & Gerrard (this is debatable). I would rate Ronaldo & Rooney much higher than Ferdinand & Evra...but it doesnt really matter. They are all great players.

Thats a good point.

Actually this whole thing is really irrelevent.

We're discussing which of our best players are "world class" a term which as i said before is totally relative anyway. For me it should mean good enough for a world 11.

At the end of the day, Liverpool dont need to be worrying about Mascherano or Alonso or Agger being amazing or just really really really good. The problems stem from where teams Don't have 'really really really good' players.

If the overall quality is raised then the effect of the 'core' is less important, and the number of players within that core grows.



<EDIT>
I agree with your last line there PHB, i would prefer us to get a more settled style and methodology rather then shifting based on the opposition. Make teams worry about Us.

Peyton Manning

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Mea culpe I am sorry for suggesting that you would say Mascherano is world class. How could a player who in the 2006 World Cup, played every minute of every game for Argentina and was widely touted as the best player at the Copa America this year be considered world class ???:rolleyes: confirms what I said in my first response to you TBH.

First of all, you seem to be implying that I think Mascherano is a crap player. I have not said such a thing so stop that BS right now. I think he's a very good and tidy player, very solid. I would rate him as very similar to Owen Hargreaves - not world class, never will be but only a couple of levels below it.

And just to point out, playing regularly for your country is not an indicator of being world class. Sure even Kleberson played every game in the knockout stages of the 2002 World Cup for Brazil. Is he world class?

Mr Alan

the core of liverpool is not good enough?!

reina-finnan-carragher-alonso-mascherano-torres?! who is not good enough?

PHB:
"making your team play a certain way is a much more feasible way to win the league"

How many leagues have you won in comparrison to Rafael Benitez?

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

he really wasnt.

HYPE was the key word around Paul scholes last year, he was praised to the high heavens for his decent season (note that i said "decent", not world class) because he battled back from a career threatening injury.

I think of all the players to have played in the premiership, Paul Scholes has been one of the least hyped players you'll find actually. All the attention last season was aimed at Ronaldo, when Scholes was equally as important, if not more.

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote:

PHB:
"making your team play a certain way is a much more feasible way to win the league"

How many leagues have you won in comparrison to Rafael Benitez?

To be fair it is how Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho have won the league. Having their own set style and imposing it upon the opposition.

Thanx 4 The Fish

At the time yes. A bit like Scholes, did you know that people can actually lose some of their ability as they age ?

And as for saying he was not world class, he was the best player in the second best team in the competition, a team full of world class players. And yet you still do not consider him world class, good job you are not an international manager I suppose.

Mr Alan

Well then why dont we just try hire one of them to win us a league?

rafa has won leagues before, i have faith in him to do it again, i dont expect miracles, Rafa had a 5 year plan when he arrived, i think he is still on course to achieve it.

I should probably get this out in the open, but i think i might be in love with Rafa

Tusky

Archimedes wrote: »

First of all, you seem to be implying that I think Mascherano is a crap player. I have not said such a thing so stop that BS right now. I think he's a very good and tidy player, very solid. I would rate him as very similar to Owen Hargreaves - not world class, never will be but only a couple of levels below it.

Now thats a silly silly point. If you dont think Mascherano is 'world class' (ugh hate the word) Fair enough, but to say he will never be ? Thats just silly.

Hes 23! This is his first full season in a top league at a top club. The sky is the limit for him, regardless of what level you think he is currently at.

Peyton Manning

T4TF, do you really think Mascherano was better than Riquelme in that tournament? To quote yourself,

good job you are not an international manager

oobydooby

~Rebel~ wrote: »

First off, World class is a silly representation of a player. Everyone has a different status of what is world class. Even the name itself is silly. The only real genuine representation of that phrase i can think of is that if there were a World 11 that these people would be in it, which obviously means there can only be 11 world class players, and their "class" is defined by the competition in that position. IMO World Class = The Very Very Best in the world. Not the best 40CB's, the best 30 strikers etc etc.

The only world class players I can think of from the EPL are Henry and Zola, both of whom have left the league. There are lots of other very good players though.

As a Liverpool fan I'm relieved we got the 3 points today. I share some of the frustration of others here that we had to scrap this win while our Manchester rivals (for those of us not from Liverpool) stroll to 3 points in what might have been a tricky away fixture against Keano's MUFC veterans :rolleyes:.

I'm happy with the quality of the squad but would like to see Benitez given 100m to buy 3 or 4 very good players and not 30m to buy 5 players. IMO Alonso is our best player, I rate Torres Gerrard, Carra and Mascherano very highly too and while Carra might have equally good players on rival teams, his heart and locality mean I would not swop him for anyone. I would not swop any of these players for any of our rivals' equivalent first choices. Reina might not be as good as Cech, I wouldn't enjoy the debate but he's good enough. Agger is also very good. Our team and squad is good enough to compete with Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea. None of the players from these squads is world class IMO and arguing about who is best is a matter of personal preference.

It's a good tight race and if we hadn't slipped against Reading and had beaten MUFC (which was a coin-flip) we'd be on Arsenal's shoulder. It's that close. We might be fourth and even fourth best but with a bit of luck we can win it.

Peyton Manning

oobydooby wrote: »

Our team and squad is good enough to compete with Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea.

I admire your loyality, but recent history has shown that this is far from true, and thats Liverpool's problem.

Tusky

Archimedes wrote: »

I admire your loyality, but recent history has shown that this is far from true, and thats Liverpool's problem.

Oh ? Liverpool finished above Arsenal the last 2 seasons and got further in the champions league 2 out of the last 3 years. They also knocked Chelsea out of the Champions league twice and won the Fa cup during this time. Liverpool are currently 2 points off Chelsea with a game in hand. Of course the squad is good enough to compete.

PHB

Is it? What's happening then? Somethings going wrong, you are in 5th place in the league. Either its the players or the management?

Peyton Manning

Cant find it now, but there was a mini table floating around some forums from Sky Sports showing Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Arsenal's performances against each other. Liverpool were bottom. If youre talking about competing, as in competing against the same teams as them then maybe yes you can compete. But competing against them directly in a 1 on 1 is a no-no.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Is it? What's happening then? Somethings going wrong, you are in 5th place in the league. Either its the players or the management?

4th* & the league is far from over.

First of all, you seem to be implying that I think Mascherano is a crap player. I have not said such a thing so stop that BS right now. I think he's a very good and tidy player, very solid. I would rate him as very similar to Owen Hargreaves - not world class, never will be but only a couple of levels below it.

Thats all well and good and of course we should be doing better against the other big 3 but...its not of any real relevance. What is of relevance is what I posted in my other post.

mike65

PHB Liverpool are 4th in the league 2 points (oops) behind Chelsea with a game in hand.

Mike.

PHB

Tusky wrote: »

4th* & the league is far from over.

Wow, so nothings wrong at all then, all nice and rosey

Ok, 2 points behind Chelsea with a game in hand is not a good thing! Chelsea have had an incredibly bad start to the season, losing a world class manager and having the worst injury crisis by far of the top 4.
Liverpool are 9 points behind Man Utd with a game in hand, 7 points behind Arsenal.

Peyton Manning

PHB wrote: »

Wow, so nothings wrong at all then, all nice and rosey

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Wow, so nothings wrong at all then, all nice and rosey

Never said there wasnt anything wrong. I was just making a point that saying Liverpool cant compete with the other 3 as ridiculous.

I wouldnt expect you to dispute this PHB! Im not saying Liverpool are the best team, im not even saying they are better than the other three...just saying that they are good enough to compete. The league table this year,the last two years & in europe confirms this.

PHB

Tusky wrote: »

Never said there wasnt anything wrong. I was just making a point that saying Liverpool cant compete with the other 3 as ridiculous.

I wouldnt expect you to dispute this PHB! Im not saying Liverpool are the best team, im not even saying they are better than the other three...just saying that they are good enough to compete. The league table this year,the last two years & in europe confirms this.

I don't think Liverpool can compete with the other 4 over the league, by which I mean that I don't think that theres any chance they can come first. They can defo beat one or two of the teams if they have a bad season, but in terms of coming first in the league, they aren't good enough to compete.
In a cup competition, they can compete with all of them.

oobydooby

Archimedes wrote: »

I admire your loyality, but recent history has shown that this is far from true, and thats Liverpool's problem.

It's definitely loyalty, I do lose a few quid on the pool in the bookies as well (and off MUFC supporting mates) but it's never a serious gamble.

Disagree with you there - the word is compete and IMO there is very little between the top 4/Big 4 this year. Recent history does not back you up there either as vs (1) Arsenal - finished higher in EPL last 2 years; (2) MUFC - knocked out of FA cup 2 years ago, similar trophy count over last 3 years; (3) Chelsea - knocked out of ECL twice in last 3 years.

These one-offs show that we can compete. I'm certainly not saying we're better, that would be silly. I don't have the stats but I'm sure off-hand that we have the worst record of the Big 4 amongst themselves in the EPL this year and over the last 3 years.

Finally if Liverpool are still going at 16-1 then I will put a value bet on them (I heard this was quoted but couldn't find it anywhere).

mike65

Would the Mancs leave this thread thankyou! Or we'll be over to taunt your underwhelming Champions League record!

Mike.

mayordenis

PHB wrote: »

Is it? What's happening then? Somethings going wrong, you are in 5th place in the league. Either its the players or the management?

you cant even read we're 4th nothing bunch of trolls you lot, no pool haven't found that little bit of magic that the players are capable of but when they do i'm going to get banned from here once and for all, for what will be the most enjoyable piss taking i will ever dish out.

DSB

mayordenis wrote: »

you cant even read we're 4th nothing bunch of trolls you lot

The telltale sign that someone has no real argument to come back with.

d22ontour

mayordenis wrote: »

no pool haven't found that little bit of magic that the players are capable of but when they do

/yawn

I can't wait for that to happen ....

Coming soon to a premier league near you . Liverpool crowned champions.

:rolleyes:

Chardee MacDennis

wow there has been some absolute bull$hit on this thread but the last few pages are amongst the best...

i love when united play sh1te and win; its championship winning form (not saying thats what we are on), we do it and our own supporters slate us...

also it shows how sad some united supporters are that they come into our thread to tell us we play crap, not you PHB - we can never get you to leave . if I had any dedication I would love to go into Uniteds thread every time they lose, which we didnt today, or win at the death or draw and say how crap they are and their players. Of course I'd probably be called a TROLL and be told to GET BACK TO YOUR OWN THREAD but we're much more hospitable here....

And Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Mascherano and Carragher are some of the best players in their respective positions in the world. If Alonso finds his form he would be up there and it is very possible Babel and Agger will join this list in the next couple of years.

And to make this a bit more controversial, imho Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano would walk into the United team.

night everyone, i'm here all week, try the veil....

Skittlebrau

Damn, this thread gets annoying every so often. Some valid points made above but some absolute crap too.

I'm curious, I've never looked at the Utd thread but do you get many Liverpool fans going on there after every game and blatently trying to stir people? It gets really old on this thread. (and I'm not having a go at all Utd fans who post here. Most make intelligent valid points and are always welcome but one or two are so obviously trying to get a rise out of people that it's really tiresome at this stage).

mike65

Skittlebrau hardly any Liverpool supporters know where that thread is tbh I consult it once in a blue moon. The facination the they have with this thread is something only they can explain.

Mike.

kryogen

lol i think millersangels(Mr.Alan) permanent residence is on the united thread!!!! i am not a troll, honestly, but i sometimes let emotions colour my posts, i can happily debate most topics with most fans, just some things get my blood boiling and i cant debate in a nice manner then :rolleyes: i have seen some of the united fans on this thread and i know there are some guys just out to cause arguements, i didnt come on here today because you played poorly to start an arguement about it, i came on to vent in a joking manner that was as usual misinterpreted as most are more willing to fight then listen, both sides..... and unfortunatly my low attention span is kicking in again

Mr Alan

Up until today i hadnt posted on the Utd thread in months ACTUALLY! thought since it was christmas i may as well start again!

Just so everyone is aware, this site is not a particular clubs fansite.... likewise.... these threads are not discussion threads for these clubs fans exclusively ..... if that is wat ye are expecting, ye are on the wrong site. This is a community for fans of all clubs, opposing fans included, to discuss football together

Skittlebrau

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just so everyone is aware, this site is not a particular clubs fansite.... likewise.... these threads are not discussion threads for these clubs fans exclusively ..... if that is wat ye are expecting, ye are on the wrong site. This is a community for fans of all clubs, opposing fans included, to discuss football together

I think most people know that at this stage but there's a massive difference between discussing football and deliberately trying to wind people up. It's so bloody boring to read pages and pages of bickering for a start.

Like I said though, there's only 1 or 2 that seem to do it (pretty much after every bad Liverpool performance). The rest of them aren't so bad really

d22ontour

mike65 wrote: »

The facination the they have with this thread is something only they can explain.

Mike.

Probably because of the shíte that's posted or maybe because the thread is always near the top ? So which is it ?

DSB

I get very confused between Call_me_al and Mr Alan sometimes.

Mr Alan

i'm the handsome one

Chardee MacDennis

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'm the handsome one

and i'm the intelligent one

sorry Mr.Alan but god doesnt give with both hands!!!

Mr Alan

ha ha ha

cant argue with that!

Unearthly

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB:
"making your team play a certain way is a much more feasible way to win the league"

How many leagues have you won in comparrison to Rafael Benitez?

I had to stop reading after this point as that is the biggest pile of horse**** I have ever read.

With your logic, who are we to criticise anyone in football? Someone doesn't rate Riiise, how many years have you played for Liverpool? Someone doesn't like Brian Kerr, how many years did you manage Ireland?

and so on and on and on

mayordenis

well theres a difference between how many years and how much success, complete nonsense there unearthly.

Unearthly

mayordenis wrote: »

well theres a difference between how many years and how much success, complete nonsense there unearthly.

Nope

You can't criticise anyone in professional football, as they achieved more than you to get to where they are

DSB

Yeah its ridiculous to say that. There would be no use for this forum if that was the case.

astrofool

It would also mean that Mr Alan would have to take Alex Ferguson's word as gospel, after all, he has won everything, and has 20+ years experience

Mr Alan

ha ..... In fairness i did also in that post that i may be in love with Rafa! i agree no one is above criticism, but at the same time, Rafa has won league before and knows more about football than any of us, so he does deserve to have a bit of respect shown to him.

plus i love him

astrofool

Just remember, respect is a two way street, next time you go bashing "insert manger/player" here.

If Liverpool keep floundering like this, I reckon Benitez could be gone in the summer, in a protracted Mourinho type way, in which case Mr Alan could well be jilted.

Mr Alan

if Rafa leaves, it sets our club back 10 years. Biggest chance of Rafa leaving is if he decides to himself, cant see him gettin the sack.

and i'd cry if he did, seriously

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

and i'd cry if he did, seriously

Will you post pictures? Seriously.

podge018

Where was all the Utd/Ferguson bashing when they scraped past Sunderland 1-0 at home ffs. I'd gladly win every game for the rest of the season 2-1.