Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Guy:Incognito

Willstev wrote: »

I am talking about Babel, you seem to be confused what club we are talking about.

Babel for ajax was pure class and you can see that when he does come on for the pool, he changes the games tempo and robs a goal the odd time aswell.

That should have said "didnt" for Sloskjear btw, fixed now.

How am I confused? He's doing a similar job for Liverpool as an impact sub as Solskjear did for Utd. He hasnt proved as effective when playing from the start. Maybe it's the fact that he knows he can run his heart out for 20-30 mins without having to last the game and playing against players who have run for an hour.

Kuyt scored for fun in holland (as did plebty before him) doesnt mean anything when you move elswhere.

el rabitos

much better performance than against derby, which wouldnt take much. actually looked like we had a game plan other than waiting for man city to fcuk up. good performance all round. still need several signings to win these kinda games, but thats nothing new.

city parked the bus, good for them.

Chong

Stekelly wrote: »

That should have said "didnt" for Sloskjear btw, fixed now.

How am I confused?

I was kidding .

Stekelly wrote: »

He's doing a similar job for Liverpool as an impact sub as Solskjear did for Utd. He hasnt proved as effective when playing from the start. Maybe it's the fact that he knows he can run his heart out for 20-30 mins without having to last the game and playing against players who have run for an hour.

Kuyt scored for fun in holland (as did plebty before him) doesnt mean anything when you move elswhere.

By the time I had posted , you had edited your original post.

PHB

Babel isn't at the top quality yet. The best way to bed him in is the way all the Spanish teams do, bring him on at the end of the game. That way, he can use his talents to the best of his ability. Slowly but surely start to make him more and more part of the first team, and eventually he will.

I think Rafa played for a draw and got a draw. Kuyts lack of quality cost Liverpool points again.

spockety

Christmas period so far, 3 out of 4 played

Man Utd 6 out of 9
Arsenal 7 out of 9
Chelsea 7 out of 9
Liverpool 7 out of 9

So no ground lost, which is something at least.

Kuyt is doing nothing to help people's opinions of him, it has to be said.
On a purely non analytical, emotional level, seeing his name on the team sheet
now makes me frown before kick off.

aidan24326

Kuyt does look pretty ordinary. Hard to blame Benitez so much for that one though, Kuyt did come with a big reputation and he looked the sort of player (in theory) who'd do well in the premiership. Probably be sold on in the summer unless he improves considerably. Liverpool looking at a 4th place finish again it seems.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

I think Rafa played for a draw and got a draw.

Utter nonsense. We played for the win, were the only team to do so, and spurned several good chances. I agree about Kuyt, though his general play was a lot better today. Think you've been listening to Richard Keyes a little too much

gary the great

Melion wrote: »

Surely Aurelio has played Riise out of the team, he has been excellent again so far today. Great game to watch, both teams are cancelling each other out. We've been a bit better but not much. And this game has confirmed what ive wanted for ages, we should break the bank next summer for Richards.

Or dunne, who was incredible. Imagine Dunne and Carragher at the centre of defence with Agger 3rd choice.

i think liverpool must be the most frustrating team in the world to support!

dc69

spockety wrote: »

Christmas period so far, 3 out of 4 played

Man Utd 6 out of 9
Arsenal 7 out of 9
Chelsea 7 out of 9
Liverpool 7 out of 9

So no ground lost, which is something at least.

Kuyt is doing nothing to help people's opinions of him, it has to be said.
On a purely non analytical, emotional level, seeing his name on the team sheet
now makes me frown before kick off.

i was jumping on the kuyt bandwagon before,but i now defo dont think he should be sold,maybe bring in another better striker but kuyt is usefull becuase he hassles the **** out of defenders especially and then he will do it all over the pitch aswell,so if we start seeing a diamond formations from the start

---

torres

---

-babel

---

kuyt

kuyt will hassle so much he will free up the other 2 and is a goal threat aswell and i think he will be usefull in that formation especially and kuyt can play wing so he would have no problem in that position.

mike65

Kuyt looks and moves like a rural yeoman who should be up at dawn milking friesians.

Mike.

dc69

http://awesomefc.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/kuytjg9.jpg


Super Kuyt

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I think Rafa played for a draw and got a draw.

Did you watch the game ? I find that to be an amazing comment. Definitely didnt play for a draw.

On the game - I'm massively disappointed. It was always going to be hard but I feel that we have lost the luxury of drawing against tough teams as we are off the pace. We simply cant afford to get draws in these games anymore. I'm talking about draws against the likes of Blackburn, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Portsmouth, Spurs....these are all tough teams, but we have to start beating them!

I thought we played really well, controlled the game and created chances but were missing a spark or a finish in the final third. Torres had one of the worst games of the season and Dunne has possibly the best of his.

I like Kuyt, he seems like a lovely fella, works hard and has a great mentality but...hes not good enough. For a CF hes not clinical enough and for a support striker hes not fast or skillful enough. Hes averaged a goal every 5 apperances in the league this season...Can we afford a first choice striker with that kind of record if we have real title aspirations ?

On the posative note I thought Aurelio was outstanding. Great defensively, don't think he gave the ball away. Great crossing and shooting. If only he could stay fit. Unfortunately, he cant be relied upon because of his fitness record. Mascherano was also outstanding. Is it just me or has Alonso been giving him passing lessons ? He can certainly pass and I'm liking his occasional surging runs forward even if they rarely end in anything. Have to get this guy tied down. Carragher was also great, nothing got past him.

Very disappointed today, was a great chance to make up some ground on the other 3. Although we got 7 points over the Christmas period which was the same amount as Arsenal & Chelsea and more than utd we are trying to gain points on them and we haven't done this.

Mr Alan

Tusky wrote: »

I thought we played really well, controlled the game and created chances

Rafa....is that you? :eek:

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa....is that you? :eek:

Always we say, it is possible, no ?

Mr Alan

ha ha ha

dont listen to PHB rafa, he doesnt have a breeze!

Mr Alan

btw, i thought Kuyt had a very good game today, granted he didnt score and i am still not convinced he is wat we need, but i had no complaints about his performance today.

mike65

Would Gerrard have been tasked to play deep if Rafa was going all out for the win?

Mike.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

btw, i thought Kuyt had a very good game today, granted he didnt score and i am still not convinced he is wat we need, but i had no complaints about his performance today.

He has lots of good games..but he doesn't score enough. All the good stuff he does is great, but it HAS to be in addition to goals. His record last season wasnt even 1 in 3. This season its 1 in 5. Not good enough.

mike65 wrote: »

Would Gerrard have been tasked to play deep if Rafa was going all out for the win?

Mike.

Gerrard did get forward quite a bit I thought.

Mr Alan

Gerrard had to play deep as City were playing 2 DM right in front of the back 4, in order for him to get any space, he needed to drop deep to recieve the ball.

lets not forget that we were playing the team with the best home record in the league and dominated for the guts of 90 minutes. Thought we did excellent today, only thing i may say about Rafa is that maybe Babel could have come on earlier. But Keys with his "Liverpool didnt try to win it" ****e, can go and ****e. What more would ya want him to do? 11 outfield? 4-2-4? we were playing a quality team ffs!

Mr Alan

Tusky wrote: »

He has lots of good games..but he doesn't score enough. All the good stuff he does is great, but it HAS to be in addition to goals. His record last season wasnt even 1 in 3. This season its 1 in 5. Not good enough.

True enough, i am just saying that i wouldnt criticise him for todays game. Torres was pretty poor, Kuyt on the other hand was decent. But i am more and more of the opinion he simply isnt good enough to be our second choice striker.

Crouch did us no favours getting suspended either. Stupid.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

True enough, i am just saying that i wouldnt criticise him for todays game. Torres was pretty poor, Kuyt on the other hand was decent. But i am more and more of the opinion he simply isnt good enough to be our second choice striker.

Crouch did us no favours getting suspended either. Stupid.

Well every game that goes by that Kuyt doesn't score reminds me that hes not good enough...regardless of how well he plays. We cant expect Torres & Gerrard to do it every game.

Zapp Brannigan

Ah the typical pool performance

Lots of chances but no end-product. Looked like Torres had an awful game.
Very disappointing to not capitalise on other teams poor performances.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Ah the typical pool performance

Lots of chances but no end-product. Looked like Torres had an awful game.
Very disappointing to not capitalise on other teams poor performances.

Only two teams have left the Eastlands with points. Not too bad if you ask me, and the only reason the other team managed to get away with points is that the Mancs were resting players for the liverpool game. Hardly a catastrophe, decent result. If the decisions had went our way (personally I feel both of the DCs could have been off taking Torres down as last man when they did not even receive a card :rolleyes:) then it may have been a different game.

anyway, onwards and upwards, has PHB been on yet with his good run rubbish again yet ?

Zapp Brannigan

Yeah Richards shoulda been off for hauling Torres down, the linesman was right in front of it for Christs sake. But still, that wouldn't have won us the game. It boils down to making lots of chances but not taking them.

StickyMcGinty

gary the great wrote: »

i think liverpool must be the most frustrating team in the world to support!

you got that right.

Kewell was terrible today (again), when will Benitez "rotate" him to the reserves?

With Crouch suspended and Voronin in a terible vein of form he kinda had to play kuyt today.

My major gripe with the game today was that Rafa waited until the 73rd minute to make a change when it was obviously needed earlier, and he does this consistently.... really gets on my nerves when a joker like kewell is kept on the pitch for that long

Thanx 4 The Fish

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Yeah Richards shoulda been off for hauling Torres down, the linesman was right in front of it for Christs sake. But still, that wouldn't have won us the game. It boils down to making lots of chances but not taking them.

You think ? The only player who was in any way as pacy as Torres in their backline, man sent off, I reckon that they would have had to make changes and that would certainly have helped.

Having said that, Torres had a couple of good chances that he should have stuck away early in the half, would have made a big difference to the Mancs as they really did set up to defend.

Dub13

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

would have made a big difference to the Mancs as they really did set up to defend.

It was such a crazy game to watch.....ok this tactic would be fine if city were in the relegation scrap but there not.Just shows you that they even think there league position is very inflated.

Chardee MacDennis

Dub13 wrote: »

It was such a crazy game to watch.....ok this tactic would be fine if city were in the relegation scrap but there not.Just shows you that they even think there league position is very inflated.

well we've all seen what happened when they tried their attacking tactics against chelsea. Why would they want to walk into another slaughtering?

Dub13

Call_me_al wrote: »

well we've all seen what happened when they tried their attacking tactics against chelsea. Why would they want to walk into another slaughtering?

There is walking into a slaughtering and then there is sitting back with 11 behind the ball and 30min still left to play.I was surprised they were that defensive.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Dub13 wrote: »

There is walking into a slaughtering and then there is sitting back with 11 behind the ball and 30min still left to play.I was surprised they were that defensive.

And the time that they took to take every free and throw, thought that the ref should have booked a couple of people for time-wasting too on a couple of occasions.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

I think Rafa played for a draw and got a draw.

Generally agree with your opinion but you have to be taking the complete piss here?

Manchester City	Team Statistics	Liverpool
0	Goals	0
0	1st Half Goals	0
0	Shots on Target	6
2	Shots off Target	10
3	Blocked Shots	6
2	Corners	9
7	Fouls	9
2	Offsides	7
0	Yellow Cards	1
0	Red Cards	0
74.6	Passing Success	82.3
31	Tackles	26
77.4	Tackles Success	73.1
40.3	Possession	59.7
51.1	Territorial Advantage	48.9

herbieflowers

City had nothing on target ffs! (not that I'm a Pool fan...)

mike65

Heaven forefend!

I see Rafa has slapped a 40 million price tag on anyone who a club might want to buy in January! I guess thats his way of saying no sales.

Mike.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Or he wants to get rid of Torres

22 shots in a game we were only going out to defend in ? PHB with another inciteful post there, keep trotting them out

Esse85

When the opposition stops Torres and Gerrard then Liverpool really run out of ideas.

Mr Alan

yawn.

rooney/ronaldo
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc

DSB

Does it really make sense to brush off a weakness in your team by comparing another team? Liverpool won't be any more likely to beat Man City because you think United are limited to Rooney and Ronaldo.

Mr Alan

DSB wrote: »

Does it really make sense to brush off a weakness in your team by comparing another team? Liverpool won't be any more likely to beat Man City because you think United are limited to Rooney and Ronaldo.

My point was that it was a silly, lazy criticism imo, as in truth it is not really a criticism.....or at least if it is one, its one that all teams share.

Utd run out of ideas when you take Rooney and Ronaldo out of the game.
Arsenal run out of ideas when you take Farbregas and Adeedefafkjfour out of the game.
Everton run out of ideas . . . . cahill/yakubu.
City...Elano/Petrov.
Chelsea...Drogba/Lampard.
Reading...doyle/hunt (thats for Des)
Newcaslte....ok newcastle probably didnt have any ideas in the first place.

etc etc.

If Benayouns shot had not been blocked at the last second by dunne....would that mean that then Liverpool are a team with options who have numerous players who can break defences?

Babel,Kuyt,Crouch,Yossi,Kewell,Riise,Alonso etc are all players who can unlock almost any defence on their day. the fact that they didnt today....does not mean that without Gerrard and Torres Liverpool are uncapable of scoring. it just means its more difficult. which is true of all teams when you take out their two most dangerous attackers.

get me?

DSB

Yeah I get you. Arteta and Tevez though would surely have to be included? And Arsenal have a large number of dangermen.

Mr Alan

they are only dangermen if they score though.

liverpool had other "dangermen" on the pitch today. still couldnt get a goal

(damn those home teams throwing 11 men behind the ball!)

kryogen

today went pretty much how i expected it, without my nightmare version where ye get a last minute goal of course when one team sets out its stall to defend its difficult to break them down as long as they are well organised, and city were today. united have had this problem with teams before, as well as arsenal and chelsea, its not new that the better team on the day fails to win. one concern i would have if i had the curse of being a pool fan is the reluctance of torres to fight when the defenders give him real resistance, he didnt seem interested today when he was challenged, richards could keep pace with him and between dunne and himself they kept him quiet, but when it wasnt going easily for him, when it seemed,to me anyway, that he was going to have to make a bigger effort and step up another level to find a way through he didnt seem up for the challenge, i assume ill be slated as usual and all that but its just my opinion, i say the same about saha at united, and i feel carrick isnt up to fighting for his place in the midfield either. its not purely because he plays for liverpool that im having a go at him, its just because players attitudes are what i notice alot, and he didnt seem to have the heart to fight, like a mark hughes would have, or an ian rush for you liverpool fans!!!

Mr Alan

Torres.....in the same breath as Saha and Carrick......really?!

Impression i've gotten from Torres is that he is well up for a fight at all times, and i love it about him.

Ian Rush had days at the office where he was fouled out of a game too so ya know. As had Mark Hughes, or where they just couldnt score cause of an awesome display by a defence.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

Torres.....in the same breath as Saha and Carrick......really?!

Impression i've gotten from Torres is that he is well up for a fight at all times, and i love it about him.

Ian Rush had days at the office where he was fouled out of a game too so ya know. As had Mark Hughes, or where they just couldnt score cause of an awesome display by a defence.

yeah point taken about mentioning him in the same sentence as those two, i could be wrong i suppose, time will tell as always, just a gut feeling i have

machiavellianme

mike65 wrote: »

Kuyt looks and moves like a rural yeoman who should be up at dawn milking friesians.

Mike.

Hey now, lets not type something we cant take back. I was up at dawn (8am during winter time) milking friesians and I reckon I've got silkier skills and definately more pace than Kuyt. As do the friesians!
Would anyone take him and Voronin off our hands? Even for free?

mike65

My appologies!

Mike.

Tusky

kryogen wrote: »

today went pretty much how i expected it, without my nightmare version where ye get a last minute goal of course when one team sets out its stall to defend its difficult to break them down as long as they are well organised, and city were today. united have had this problem with teams before, as well as arsenal and chelsea, its not new that the better team on the day fails to win. one concern i would have if i had the curse of being a pool fan is the reluctance of torres to fight when the defenders give him real resistance, he didnt seem interested today when he was challenged, richards could keep pace with him and between dunne and himself they kept him quiet, but when it wasnt going easily for him, when it seemed,to me anyway, that he was going to have to make a bigger effort and step up another level to find a way through he didnt seem up for the challenge, i assume ill be slated as usual and all that but its just my opinion, i say the same about saha at united, and i feel carrick isnt up to fighting for his place in the midfield either. its not purely because he plays for liverpool that im having a go at him, its just because players attitudes are what i notice alot, and he didnt seem to have the heart to fight, like a mark hughes would have, or an ian rush for you liverpool fans!!!

His games against utd & City were his worst of the season. He has scored 3 goals in his last 3 games and is the highest scoring striker in his first season in the premiership. So its a pretty unfair criticism.

DSB

Roque Santa Cruz has scored more in his first season in the Premiership. No point in throwing forward statistics like that if they aren't accurate.

Tusky

DSB wrote: »

Roque Santa Cruz has scored more in his first season in the Premiership. No point in throwing forward statistics like that if they aren't accurate.

I was referring to all comps. should have made that clear. Torres is on 15, Santa Cruz is on 14.

PHB

I think City set up for a draw more, and hence why Liverpool dominated the game mostly. However, I think the attitude of the Liverpool team showed why Rafa wasn't willing to make the risks for the win. City played the entire game with one up front.

As the game went on further, Gerrard was never allowed push further. If you think that's because he had to then you are being silly. It's not like Gerrard doesn't have the ability to get the better of 2 DM's. [p.s. I thought Gerrard had a great game in the first half, real center midfielder play]
He brought on Babel for Kewell. Like for like. He never went for it, he had Voronin and Alonso on the bench, them on for Mascherano and Benayoun or even Finnan/Arbeloa or something. Liverpool needed a win last night, a draw isn't that much better than a loss. It's a point, but the risk is always worth it. City looked like they could well concede, an extra attacker really could have made the difference.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

I think City set up for a draw more, and hence why Liverpool dominated the game mostly. However, I think the attitude of the Liverpool team showed why Rafa wasn't willing to make the risks for the win. City played the entire game with one up front.

As the game went on further, Gerrard was never allowed push further. If you think that's because he had to then you are being silly. It's not like Gerrard doesn't have the ability to get the better of 2 DM's. [p.s. I thought Gerrard had a great game in the first half, real center midfielder play]
He brought on Babel for Kewell. Like for like. He never went for it, he had Voronin and Alonso on the bench, them on for Mascherano and Benayoun or even Finnan/Arbeloa or something. Liverpool needed a win last night, a draw isn't that much better than a loss. It's a point, but the risk is always worth it. City looked like they could well concede, an extra attacker really could have made the difference.

City are a very good team PHB...lets not forget that.

IMO the man who couldve made the biggest difference yesterday was Crouch. The end of that game was tailor-made for him. Makes the Mikel tackle look all the more stupid now.