Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

purple'n'gold

I didn’t see tonight’s game, had to watch Bolton and derby on sky sports. But my comment is more about managers than tonight’s result. (I am very surprised that Liverpool didn’t beat Wigan, but as they say it’s a funny old game.) I watched the Man.City v Liverpool game on Sunday, Ericsson got it just right, he knew his team were not as good as Liverpool in attack, so he quiet unashamedly played for a draw (at home), and got it. He’s a shrewd club manager; I don’t think Benitez has the same instincts at domestic level.Different in Europe of course. Tonight, against a team like Wigan he should have hit them with everything bar the kitchen sink, i.e. Get Crouch into the game earlier. Sometimes it pays not to be pretty. Just my 2 cents worth.

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote: »

I mention Hunt as he's buyable (ie Reading would sell) and for a price Liverpools can afford (by selling Riise who Koeman is interested in).

Mike.

i think by buying hunt we'd just be making the same mistake we keep making. From this point forward ANY players we buy should be top notch (barring another CB), otherwise whats the point? Our squad is decent. We dont need another 'decent' player. We need players who are head and shoulders above those in their positions at the moment. If we're getting a LW, beit now or in the summer, they had better be Class.

mike65

Benitiez is shrewd in Europe, but the Prem seems to baffle him.

Mike.

kryogen

you claim to be a team with title aspirations, yet you mention the words buy and stephen hunt in the same sentence? yes he gives it his all but is he good enough to be a transfer target for a club with title ambitions? come on

zing

What did Rafa have to say after the game ?

Dub13

kryogen wrote: »

you claim to be a team with title aspirations, yet you mention the words buy and stephen hunt in the same sentence? yes he gives it his all but is he good enough to be a transfer target for a club with title ambitions? come on

Not everybody does....only the ones who fall for the Irish media hype.

Melion

I cant believe someone mentioned stephen hunt in here. Christ, just recall Anderson and Hamill and give them a chance in the first team. They've both been very impressive on loan and in the reserves for the last 2 years.

mike65

I'd take an enthusiastic terrier (who cost nothing) over slick but ineffective.

Mike.

lpool2k05

I just want them to win the league!!Is it ever going to happen!!

Stephen Hunt isnt YET good enough for a top 4 team!!Think he will be though!

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Hate too say, but i wouldnt be too upset if Rafa left in the summer.

Who would replace him?

---

Heartbroken after that game tbh. I cant believe we didnt win it, i really cant. We were all over them. Thats not enough though.

Rafa is not the problem.

I now think a league win would take a comeback of Istanbul-esque proportions in the second half of the season. I'll keep believing as long as it mathamatically possible, but the odds are minuscule and i will finally admit that.

Rafa is not the problem.

The squad, as much as i'd hoped otherwise, is not good enough. We are lacking real class on both wings. Pennant,Benayoun and Kewell are all good players, and good enough to be in the squad of a Championship winning side, but not good even to be starters. Babel, i think will be good enough, but he is too inexperienced at the moment, that will only come with time.

Rafa is not the problem.

Kuyt/Crouch/Voronin, are all also good enough to be in a Championship winning squad, but one of them has to go and be replaced by a class player.

Rafa is not the problem.

At the tram night that Dub13 helped organise recently, Phil Thompson said that he thinks this year is too soon for us to win the league, and that we need another year to strenghten with quality players like Arbeloa,Torres,Babel ... coming in. I agree with him.

Rafa is not the problem.

The americans need to put their money where there ****ing mouth is and finance the acquisition of excellent players. Not players "almost" good enough, not stop-gap players. Quality players. At the moment, the americans have put **** all of their own money into transfers, like they promised they would. Our net spend in the summer was similar to Everton and Spurs, if thats the money they continue to put in, it will take years for Rafa build a squad capable of winning the league. How do they expect Rafa to catch up with our competitors if they are not willing to change the way we do our business.

Rafa is not the problem.

Mike, don't be going on that RAWK site, bad for your health, more ****e talked there from people who have no idea about football than even this site!

Ps. Rafa is not the problem.

Dub13

lpool2k05 wrote: »

Stephen Hunt isnt YET good enough for a top 4 team!!Think he will be though!

Well he would want to hurry up and improve considering he will be 28 at the start of next season.

mike65

I lurk only!

Mike.

ps Rafa buys players, devises tactics, decides who starts and who is subbed and when. Why is he not to blame?

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

I lurk only!

You should lurk on IrishKop we are alot more welcoming than RAWK.

lpool2k05

I checked Hunts age straight after I posted!!couldnt believe hes 28!!I take it back so

Dub13

lpool2k05 wrote: »

I checked Hunts age straight after I posted!!couldnt believe hes 28!!I take it back so

Yea a lot of people are surprised by that he was a late bloomer.

Don't get me wrong he is a good lad and can do a job for Ireland and Reading but he not not up to it at the top level.

mike65

Could be a great impact sub?

Mike.

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

Could be a great impact sub?

Maybe if we got him cheap but we have one of them already... Babel.

mike65

Makes a good cup of tea?

Mike.

Unearthly

Stephen Hunt is not the answer.

You need to look for proven class players that will probably cost a bit of money. You already have enough decent players, but are at the building stage where big name players should be your only targets

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

I lurk only!

Mike.

ps Rafa buys players, devises tactics, decides who starts and who is subbed and when. Why is he not to blame?

Mascherano(on loan),Alonso,Reina,Arbeloa,Carragher as a centre half,Babel,Agger,Lucas,Torres,Crouch even are all excellent signings. He has gotten a lot better on a transfer market in the last 18 months and has had to rebuild a squad he deemed not good enough, working on a similar budget (but lesser) budget, than the one our title rivals have had to "improve" their already title winning squads.

Exception of Wenger who 1)is the greatest manager probably in the world. and 2)10 years of pilfering the best young players from around the world.

Nothing wrong with our tactics tonight or the team that started.

the one thing about Rafa that annoys me (and only a little ) is that sometimes i think he leaves bringing the subs on too late.

I think anyone who even suggests that Rafa should leave....should have to name an alternative manager.

jank

The americans need to put their money where there ****ing mouth is and finance the acquisition of excellent players. Not players "almost" good enough, not stop-gap players. Quality players. At the moment, the americans have put **** all of their own money into transfers, like they promised they would. Our net spend in the summer was similar to Everton and Spurs, if thats the money they continue to put in, it will take years for Rafa build a squad capable of winning the league. How do they expect Rafa to catch up with our competitors if they are not willing to change the way we do our business.

Bull**** to be honest. How much have arsenal spent? If your manager keeps buying ****e players just for the sake of it then Rafa is the problem. Money isnt the answer to liverpool. Rafa is a good cup manager but not a great manager ala Fergie or Wenger. Get yourself a great manager then we can talk about leagues...

Mr Alan

Dub13 wrote: »

You should lurk on IrishKop we are alot more welcoming than RAWK.

do you ever stop plugging?!

mike65

I'd say Fabio Capello...Sven?

Mike.

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote: »

I lurk only!

Mike.

ps Rafa buys players, devises tactics, decides who starts and who is subbed and when. Why is he not to blame?

On the buying players one; if only he had as much authority as he could have!

Imagine if he'd been allowed to buy Villa, Aguero and Alves. When he was first interested in each, they would have cost a combined total of 31million. Villa went for 8mill, Aguero for 15 and the price for Alves when Rafa joined us was 5 to 8mill. None of them were sanctioned.

He also wanted Malouda this year but was shot down by the board so had to get Yossi instead.

lpool2k05

Would anybody give el zhar(think you spell it like that) a chance or is it way too soon?

Dub13

Mr Alan wrote: »

do you ever stop plugging?!

No...it just comes naturally now.

I try to encourage good posters to check us out.

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

Who would replace him?

---

Heartbroken after that game tbh. I cant believe we didnt win it, i really cant. We were all over them. Thats not enough though.

Rafa is not the problem.

I now think a league win would take a comeback of Istanbul-esque proportions in the second half of the season. I'll keep believing as long as it mathamatically possible, but the odds are minuscule and i will finally admit that.

Rafa is not the problem.

The squad, as much as i'd hoped otherwise, is not good enough. We are lacking real class on both wings. Pennant,Benayoun and Kewell are all good players, and good enough to be in the squad of a Championship winning side, but not good even to be starters. Babel, i think will be good enough, but he is too inexperienced at the moment, that will only come with time.

Rafa is not the problem.

Kuyt/Crouch/Voronin, are all also good enough to be in a Championship winning squad, but one of them has to go and be replaced by a class player.

Rafa is not the problem.

At the tram night that Dub13 helped organise recently, Phil Thompson said that he thinks this year is too soon for us to win the league, and that we need another year to strenghten with quality players like Arbeloa,Torres,Babel ... coming in. I agree with him.

Rafa is not the problem.

The americans need to put their money where there ****ing mouth is and finance the acquisition of excellent players. Not players "almost" good enough, not stop-gap players. Quality players. At the moment, the americans have put **** all of their own money into transfers, like they promised they would. Our net spend in the summer was similar to Everton and Spurs, if thats the money they continue to put in, it will take years for Rafa build a squad capable of winning the league. How do they expect Rafa to catch up with our competitors if they are not willing to change the way we do our business.

Rafa is not the problem.

Mike, don't be going on that RAWK site, bad for your health, more ****e talked there from people who have no idea about football than even this site!

Ps. Rafa is not the problem.

All the player's you list there (bar Kewell), Rafa has bought, and sometimes spent a lot of money on (Kuyt, Crouch), he has to be at least part of a problem if you admit that a problem exists. Even with another year, Chelsea, Arsenal and Manu have maybe 1 or 2 area's each to focus on to pull further ahead, Arsenal and Manu with very young squads and Chelsea with any money they need. Even with a cash injection, getting Liverpool's squad to be decent compared to the other three is a very big ask, and Rafa hasn't been good enough in the market to do it (Arsene has).

Who could replace him? Mourinho, O'Neill, Moyes(would never go), Eriksson, Rijkaard, Mancini, Klinnsmann possibly.

mike65

~Rebel~ there is no question is problem exists about the speed of purchasing players, Parry is way too slow to make a move when a target is identified.

Mike.

Mr Alan

jank wrote: »

Bull**** to be honest. How much have arsenal spent? If your manager keeps buying ****e players just for the sake of it then Rafa is the problem. Money isnt the answer to liverpool. Rafa is a good cup manager but not a great manager ala Fergie or Wenger. Get yourself a great manager then we can talk about leagues...

I have addressed where Arsenal differ in my above post.

I aint denying the greatness of Ferguson or Wenger.

A lot of the players he has signed were stop gap players to make Liverpool competitive while Moores was selling the club in order to progress us onto the next "financial level". These players finished ahead of Arsenal the last 2 seasons, so lets not get all high and mighty.

Rafa is in the process of remodelling the way Liverpool both sign and progress young players. He is building an dynasty in the vein of Arsenal signing up some of the worlds best young players.

Get yourself a Champions League/European Cup and we can talk about great managers/clubs....

copacetic

Mr Alan wrote: »

The squad, as much as i'd hoped otherwise, is not good enough. We are lacking real class on both wings. Pennant,Benayoun and Kewell are all good players, and good enough to be in the squad of a Championship winning side, but not good even to be starters. Babel, i think will be good enough, but he is too inexperienced at the moment, that will only come with time.

Rafa is not the problem.

Kuyt/Crouch/Voronin, are all also good enough to be in a Championship winning squad, but one of them has to go and be replaced by a class player.

Rafa is not the problem.
.

you've listed a pile of players he has bought as not good enough? he bought them. is that not a problem?

Mr Alan

astrofool wrote: »

All the player's you list there (bar Kewell), Rafa has bought, and sometimes spent a lot of money on (Kuyt, Crouch), he has to be at least part of a problem if you admit that a problem exists. Even with another year, Chelsea, Arsenal and Manu have maybe 1 or 2 area's each to focus on to pull further ahead, Arsenal and Manu with very young squads and Chelsea with any money they need. Even with a cash injection, getting Liverpool's squad to be decent compared to the other three is a very big ask, and Rafa hasn't been good enough in the market to do it (Arsene has).

Who could replace him? Mourinho, O'Neill, Moyes(would never go), Eriksson, Rijkaard, Mancini, Klinnsmann possibly.

I list Crouch as being a good signing. And would not sell him unless it was to be replaced with a Torres-class player. I meant to infer in my post originally that Rafa has made some bad signings, and some mistakes, but they are becoming far less frequent (the bad signings) and who hasnt made mistakes?

O'Neill - Not good enough imo. Doesnt like spending money, just buy more bargain basment players. Mainly though, not good enough.
Mourinho - Has nowhere near the class to have any involvement with Liverpool.
Klinnsmann - Tell me your taking the piss?
Rijkaard - Not good enough imo. Couldn't win the league last year wit the best players in the world at his team. Also, will always associate him with spitting.
Moyes - now i know you're joking.
Eriksson - Be at City for years. And No.

Mr Alan

****the players that Rafa has bought that are not good enough were a gamble that didnt pay off, because the finance was not available to buy the amount of players he figured he needed to buy and for them all to be excellent****

zing

Here's two depressing and annoying little statistics for you
- out of the 11 players who started tonight only 3 have scored so far this year - and iirc one of them has only scored in a single game.
- played 10 league games so far this season at Anfield and we've only won 4 of them !

So much for us just needing a 20 goal a season striker to win the league..

copacetic

zing wrote: »

- out of the 11 players who started tonight only 3 have scored so far this year - and iirc one of them has only scored in a single game.

well it is only the 2nd of jan!

jank

Mr Alan wrote: »

A lot of the players he has signed were stop gap players to make Liverpool competitive while Moores was selling the club in order to progress us onto the next "financial level". These players finished ahead of Arsenal the last 2 seasons, so lets not get all high and mighty.

Arsenal were in a rebuiling process which is now finished. Who is top of the league??:rolleyes:

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa is in the process of remodelling the way Liverpool both sign and progress young players. He is building an dynasty in the vein of Arsenal signing up some of the worlds best young players.

Really? How so? You can tell yourself everything is going to be fine as long as you want but liverpool have done nothing of note lately. The yanks are getting cold feet and might sell up....you know where this leads

Mr Alan wrote: »

Get yourself a Champions League/European Cup and we can talk about great managers/clubs....

See thats the problem right there? What the **** does the european cup have to do with this? You think rafa is > then wenger? I bet you do!!

We are not talking about arsenal now are we. We are talking about 18 years becoming 19. I give you a neutral view on whats wrong and you get all smart about it. What can i expect sure.

Peyton Manning

If Liverpool want to push for the title next season, or even make a late rally at this seasons title, then the likes of Stephen Hunt should not be suggested. No more 'good squad players', 'decent players' or 'good little players' should be bought - the cream of the crop world class players should be chased. If wingers are being looked at, then Liverpool will have to cough up to get the goods. Benayoun, Pennant, Stephen Hunt - no. Vicente, Joaquin, and dare I say it, a serious big cash bid for Ronaldinho - yes. Crazier things have happened in football. Its time for Liverpool to spend big and buy big, not spend big and buy small.

therecklessone

jank wrote: »

See thats the problem right there? What the **** does the european cup have to do with this? You think rafa is > then wenger? I bet you do!!

We are not talking about arsenal now are we. We are talking about 18 years becoming 19. I give you a neutral view on whats wrong and you get all smart about it. What can i expect sure.

Jeez, never thought I'd agree with a Gooner, but that's the nail hit smack bang on the head.

Can't see Rafa ever winning the league at Liverpool.

jank

Ronaldinho - yes. Crazier things have happened in football. Its time for Liverpool to spend big and buy big, not spend big and buy small.

hmmm the plot thickens, but i think he would have to commute from spain to tolerate playing in liverpool:p

Unearthly

Liverpool fans just wanted a title challenge this season. This was the defence for Benitez amongst a lot of people a few weeks ago. Now you are out of the race, yet some people still stick up for him.

TBH some of the posts here smack of being a Benitez fanboy

Mr Alan

jank wrote: »

Really? How so? You can tell yourself everything is going to be fine as long as you want but liverpool have done nothing of note lately. The yanks are getting cold feet and might sell up....you know where this leads.

Liverpool have done nothing of note lately? Same as Arsenal (you aint won the league this year yet, all still there for ye to blow, especially with the african nations coming up).

Kidding myself?! I'd advise you to look into it, i cant be arsed, but Liverpool have signed some of the most highly rated youngsters from around Europe in the last 12 months.

jank wrote: »

See thats the problem right there? What the **** does the european cup have to do with this? You think rafa is > then wenger? I bet you do!!.

There is no problem, that was simply in response to your "then come back and talk about the league....." smug comment. And no if you read posts in here that i've made only in the last few minutes, i clearly state, i reckon Wenger for the best manager in the world.

jank wrote: »

We are not talking about arsenal now are we. We are talking about 18 years becoming 19. I give you a neutral view on whats wrong and you get all smart about it. What can i expect sure.

You give me a neutral view? why because you dont support Everton or Utd your opinion on Liverpool is neutral? you support one of Liverpool biggest rivals? your view is anything but neutral.

Peyton Manning

jank wrote: »

hmmm the plot thickens, but i think he would have to commute from spain to tolerate playing in liverpool:p

Sure Liverpool is as good as Spain these days!

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kidding myself?! I'd advise you to look into it, i cant be arsed, but Liverpool have signed some of the most highly rated youngsters from around Europe in the last 12 months.

Apart from Babel, you really havent signed any other highly rated youngsters from around Europe.

Mr Alan

Unearthly wrote: »

Liverpool fans just wanted a title challenge this season. This was the defence for Benitez amongst a lot of people a few weeks ago. Now you are out of the race, yet some people still stick up for him.

TBH some of the posts here smack of being a Benitez fanboy

I have always said rafas job should have nothing to do with a title challenge this year. after next season i think questions should start to be asked.

I am a fan of Benitez, you are correct.

kryogen

exactly, joaquin, now theres a winger, slightly better option then hunt i imagine? probably wanna set your sights on a player with that quality rather then a guy who has been used mainly as an impact sub for ireland.........you cant say rafa is not at fault, whatever excuses you want to make for him, they are his players, this is his team, he trains them, he decides the tactics, he decides the substitutions...... if his team is at fault hes at fault as a decision maker and decision making is pretty high on the list of attributes a manager needs.

take off the blinkers, you will not win the league with this manager, not with the way he approaches league football, i dont know what alternatives you could bring in now if he was to go, they would also need alot of time cause they would have to get rid of all the second tier players rafa has bought and buy their own, but basically i think for success and not that i want you to have any mind you need to stop the rot sooner or later, either accept that you wont win the league and keep your manager who has the tactical brain for cup competitions or go get someone like ottmar hitzfeld who is going to be available this summer as he is leaving bayern, he knows how to win leagues consistently.

failing that you could make an approach for someone of the calibre of capello but theres not many around that would be interested in my opinion, whats the problem with o neill? how can you say he isnt good enough? he has a proven record of success everywhere he has gone so far, and he spent money wisely i would say rather then calling his buys bargain basement and saying he doesnt like to spend money, he hasnt ever really had money to spend so i think its an unfair comment tbh

Mr Alan

Archimedes wrote: »

Apart from Babel, you really havent signed any other highly rated youngsters from around Europe.

I'm not talking about first teamers. Babel was starting at Ajax when we signed him.

I am talking about the best of other clubs acadamies. Youngsters. As Wenger has built his team.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not talking about first teamers. Babel was starting at Ajaz when we signed him.

I am talking about the best of other clubs acadamies. Youngsters. As Wenger has built his team.

Fair enough, I dont know much really about Liverpool's youth player so I cant comment, but if you're comparing them to Arsenals lot, i.e. Vela, Merida, Denilson - then they have their work cut out for them!

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

exactly, joaquin, now theres a winger, slightly better option then hunt i imagine? probably wanna set your sights on a player with that quality rather then a guy who has been used mainly as an impact sub for ireland.........you cant say rafa is not at fault, whatever excuses you want to make for him, they are his players, this is his team, he trains them, he decides the tactics, he decides the substitutions...... if his team is at fault hes at fault as a decision maker and decision making is pretty high on the list of attributes a manager needs.

take off the blinkers, you will not win the league with this manager, not with the way he approaches league football, i dont know what alternatives you could bring in now if he was to go, they would also need alot of time cause they would have to get rid of all the second tier players rafa has bought and buy their own, but basically i think for success and not that i want you to have any mind you need to stop the rot sooner or later, either accept that you wont win the league and keep your manager who has the tactical brain for cup competitions or go get someone like ottmar hitzfeld who is going to be available this summer as he is leaving bayern, he knows how to win leagues consistently.

failing that you could make an approach for someone of the calibre of capello but theres not many around that would be interested in my opinion, whats the problem with o neill? how can you say he isnt good enough? he has a proven record of success everywhere he has gone so far, and he spent money wisely i would say rather then calling his buys bargain basement and saying he doesnt like to spend money, he hasnt ever really had money to spend so i think its an unfair comment tbh

Rafa should under no circumstances get the sack. And that is not just my opinion of Rafa from my blinkered "love Rafa" eyes. When he came to Liverpool he talked about a 5 year plan. In the first year he won the CL. He should be given his five years.

ps. O neill has buckets of money to spend at Villa, and hasnt. Much to many Villa fans disgust.

jank

Id love to see Rafa stay on. Makes winning the title easier for Arsenal.

kryogen

but come on!! who wants to play for villa!! can you see and joaquin, ronaldinho, tevez, torres wanting to sign for them? so rather then spend buckets of money on second rate players he has spent wisely, keeping money for if he is able to build the club into the type of team that can attract big names.

i dont disagree that replacing benitez right now is not ideal, but he isnt the right man to win the english premier league, the more time he spends in england the more im convinvced of this, you didnt take up any issue with the critiscism i directed at him!!!!! are the love glasses falling off????;) do you accept the points i make about it being his team, his mistakes, his fault?

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

ps. O neill has buckets of money to spend at Villa, and hasnt. Much to many Villa fans disgust.

In all honesty Al, if youre suggesting that a manager should spend money on players just to keep the fans happy, youre fighting a losing battle. No point signing players who you dont feel are right for the club just to keep the pressure off you, and maybe thats what Benitez has been doing so far.