Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Melion

kida wrote: »

Utd have won the league - which makes the signings worth it. 18M was a lot for Carrick but they would prob not have won the league last year without him, which makes it worth it.

So if we win the league next year and assuming they are all still at Anfield that makes signing Crouch, Pennant, Sissoko, Kuyt worth the money we paid?

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

And why the hell are we going for Bridge when we have Aurelio who is a far superior player?

really? i would much rather have bridge than aurelio in my team!

Spud83

Melion wrote: »

Djimi Traore, Vladi Smicer, Jerzy Dudek all have Champions League medals, whats your point?

Some of the shíte posted in this thread over the last 12 hours has been hilarious to read. Adebayor only cost £3m??? Think again. Try somewhere between 7 and 10 but of course, that doesnt fit with your argument about Rafa being rubbish in the transfer market. Amazing that there has been very little posted about Fergie's terrible dealings in the market, 30m for Ferdinand, 18m for Carrick, 20m+ for Hargreaves. Hilarious.

Nobody has questioned Fergusons dealings because he has rebuilt his squad for the 3rd/4th time into a title winning team. People are questioning Rafas ability to delivery the league. Whats wrong with that?

P.S if you actually read back you will see that Fergusons flops have been mentioned and acknowledged. I dont think Ferdinand, or Carrick can be considered flops considering they were part of a title winning team, as for Hargreaves he still could be. Nobody cares about transfer fees when the the team is being competitive.

mike65

If you need two players per postion then Aurelio and Bridge can be in the same sqaud.

Mike.

prendy

So if we win the league next year and assuming they are all still at Anfield that makes signing Crouch, Pennant, Sissoko, Kuyt worth the money we paid?

YES.
but the difference is they are NOT good enough.
winning the league IS everything.

Melion

prendy wrote: »

YES.
but the difference is they are NOT good enough.
winning the league IS everything.

But if we win the league next year the same players will be considered good players, seems strange to me.

jesus_thats_gre

Stekelly wrote: »

Dropping stupid pointslike last night, 3 to Reading etc means the chance for other things to go our way never arises.

Agree completely. Off the top of my head, quite alot of the games that we drew this season were easily there for the taking if we were capable of finishing our dinner. As I said, I take quite a bit of comfort in the fact that we are creating a stupid number of chances in most games. As a few more quality players are added to the squad, more and more of these chances will be put away.

citytillidie

Melion

There is no point arguing with Man Utd fans its there way or no way at all.

Melion

I really dont agree with most of the things posted on here and i dont blame the united/chelsea/arsenal/other fans for it. Most Liverpool fans know about our youth. We dont need to go out and spend stupid money. In my own opinion we are fine in central defence with Hobbs coming through, our full backs are fine with Arbeloa and Finnan on the right, Aurelio and Riise on the left. Even sell on Riise and bring Insua through this season.

In midfield we are fine in the centre, everyone knows that. I think Pennant and Yossi are fine on the right, same for Kewell and Babel(for this season) on the left. Recall Anderson and Hamill and give them some games and blood them now that the title is gone. Leto is another one who i think will be a great player if he gets enough time on the pitch, El Zhar is another one who could make the step up.

As for our strikers, i still think that Crouch and Torres would be a great partnership if they got a few games together to get to know each others game. Ive no doubt that Babel will be a striker in years to come, he is still very inexperienced but the only way he can get better is to get games up top.

I know people wont like me saying it, i dont even like saying it myself but the league is gone this season. Now is the time to give the youngsters experience in the league, all we should be looking to sign is a striker because Kuyt and Voronin just wont score and bar Nemeth and Pachecho in the reserves there doesnt seem to be any stand out strikers, neither of those 2 could make the jump just yet.

Melion

citytillidie wrote: »

Melion

There is no point arguing with Man Utd fans its there way or no way at all.

Oh trust me, i know that already. All my mates, my family, lads in work support United.

Spud83

But can Rafa afford to give these youngesters time on the pitch as you say and risk finishing 15-25 points behind the winners and possible scrapping for fourth place. The way his current relationship with the owners seems to be I dont think he can.

prendy

melion alot of what you say makes sense but our wingers are not good enough..look at the return in the league.kewell has yet to get a shot on target let alone trouble a keeper. the rest dont contribute enough goals IMO...and thats all it is is my opinion.(except babel who im very i mpressed with)

mike65

The fact Babel wasn't on the bench last night spoke volumes for me.

Mike.

Melion

mike65 wrote: »

The fact Babel wasn't on the bench last night spoke volumes for me.

Mike.

He'll be up front against Luton i think

Jazzy

i still think babel can make it as a winger. he has a good touch and can beat a player. his crossing aint the best atm but neither was ronaldo's at that age.

We definitely need a world class right winger who can ask questions of another teams defence late on. Mancini would be nice. that is our biggest problem i feel, PL teams are very good at defending through the middle and can normally lump balls away when the pressure is on - hence liverpools inability to finish off a game. even though we have the other team under siege we just cant get a goal. this is because our attacking play invariably ends up down the middle where it is easier for other teams to defend. utd, chelski and especially arsenal are extremely good at using the pitch and spreading the play wide. they also have the players for this to work in the form of Ronaldo, Nani/Giggs, Hleb, Cole and even SWP.

Liverpool though have Kewell, Pennant, Yossi and Babel. only one of them is up to scratch and he will only really be that good in 2 years (Babel). the other 3 arent worth squat on the 80th minute when its 0-0 and when gerrard and torres cant break through the rest of our attacking play is extremely flat.

One of my mates had a fiver bet with another mate saying that Dirk Kuyt would be a good player. he payed up last week. We need a target man now, a strong finisher who is good in the air. someone like Saha, adebayor, kalou/drogba.... essentially someone that can kill a game for us instead of chasing down lost causes or confusing a defence with his mix of height and surprising footwork (which works well against defences which arent used to him but is a waste of a player vs. the other 15 PL clubs... hence the international form).

The defence will sort itself out I feel so I wouldnt fret about that. Id still get rid of Sissoko in favour of Lucas (which also frees up funds to keep Mascherano).

Melion

prendy wrote: »

melion alot of what you say makes sense but our wingers are not good enough..look at the return in the league.kewell has yet to get a shot on target let alone trouble a keeper. the rest dont contribute enough goals IMO...and thats all it is is my opinion.(except babel who im very i mpressed with)

I have been very impressed with Kewell since he has returned to the starting 11.

If we were to spend money on a winger my choice would be Pedersen from Blackburn, cracking player.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

But if we win the league next year the same players will be considered good players, seems strange to me.

thats the whole point, the signings you've made have proven nothing yet so as things stand they dont look like good enough players.

im sure the same was said about vidic and evra when they were first bought but they have proven to be great signings - forming half of the best defence in the prem!

and your point on Sir Alex's buys - Ferdinand is a quality player, sure he was overpriced but the 30m you quoted is am i know that you're fully aware is not the actual figure paid. Also, the fact he's English adds pounds onto his value and having to sign him from Leeds (our rivals who did not want to part) and on the back of a good WC for him meant an inflated transfer price. He's one of by far the best CB's in the league and we've got great service from him so i think he's been a great buy.

I don't know how you can say Hargreaves is a bad buy, we havent seen enough of him and we were crying out for a defensive mid (which you may yet have to if you dont get the overrated and overpriced Mascherano!) Again, he was English so we had to pay more (and also beacuse we're Manchester Utd)

Carrick had a very good season last time around but has struggled this and again he was english so it cost more.

i dont reckon any of them are bad signings as you suggest!

Melion

Jazzy wrote: »

i still think babel can make it as a winger. he has a good touch and can beat a player. his crossing aint the best atm but neither was ronaldo's at that age.

Babel is 21, Ronaldo is 22

PHB

I was really just using those examples to make the point, about the general philosophy of Rafa. As for nobody seeing Morientes flopping, well, Fergie nor Wenger bought him, which would suggest that they didn't think he was up to it. Rafa did.

As for what Liverpool need, I've been saying it since the summer,
LB and CB Cover (although Aureilo might be able to do the LB part)
Two World Class Wingers
One world class striker (preferably in the Drogba mould)
In order to get rid of the dross and raise funds
I'd get rid of
Hyypia
Yossi
Kuyt
Sissoko

Here's a real question for ya though, if you only have 40 million to spend this summer, would you rather buy a winger and a striker, or Mascherano and a striker/winger?
Maybe the owners are thinking what most people on this thread are thinking, Liverpool need more attacking talent.

Melion

p_larkin99 wrote: »

thats the whole point, the signings you've made have proven nothing yet so as things stand they dont look like good enough players.

im sure the same was said about vidic and evra when they were first bought but they have proven to be great signings - forming half of the best defence in the prem!

and your point on Sir Alex's buys - Ferdinand is a quality player, sure he was overpriced but the 30m you quoted is am i know that you're fully aware is not the actual figure paid. Also, the fact he's English adds pounds onto his value and having to sign him from Leeds (our rivals who did not want to part) and on the back of a good WC for him meant an inflated transfer price. He's one of by far the best CB's in the league and we've got great service from him so i think he's been a great buy.

I don't know how you can say Hargreaves is a bad buy, we havent seen enough of him and we were crying out for a defensive mid (which you may yet have to if you dont get the overrated and overpriced Mascherano!) Again, he was English so we had to pay more (and also beacuse we're Manchester Utd)

Carrick had a very good season last time around but has struggled this and again he was english so it cost more.

i dont reckon any of them are bad signings as you suggest!

I recall United fans giving out stink that Fergie kept playing Evra over Heinze, he was awful when he signed, it takes time for players to settle in.

If Rio cut out the fancy shíte then he would be a better defender IMO. Id have Vidic before him any day of the week.

Hargreaves was laughed out of Old Trafford before the world cup in 2006, that is enough for me to suggest he isnt as good as united fans and the english media would have you think.

mike65

Melion wrote: »

He'll be up front against Luton i think

Quite so. Babel if selected last night would only have played 20-25 mins, and yet Rafa feels the need to 'protect' the lad?

Mike.

Melion

PHB wrote: »

I was really just using those examples to make the point, about the general philosophy of Rafa. As for nobody seeing Morientes flopping, well, Fergie nor Wenger bought him, which would suggest that they didn't think he was up to it. Rafa did.

As for what Liverpool need, I've been saying it since the summer,
LB and CB Cover (although Aureilo might be able to do the LB part)
Two World Class Wingers
One world class striker (preferably in the Drogba mould)
In order to get rid of the dross and raise funds
I'd get rid of
Hyypia
Yossi
Kuyt
Sissoko

Here's a real question for ya though, if you only have 40 million to spend this summer, would you rather buy a winger and a striker, or Mascherano and a striker/winger?
Maybe the owners are thinking what most people on this thread are thinking, Liverpool need more attacking talent.

We dont need all that. We need to keep Mascherano, thats why id rather we blood some youngsters now for the wings.

PHB

Rafa:

"It's clear the gap is bigger but I've said it before, it is a long race.

"You have to try to play one game at a time if you can, because if you think about the gap you will play with more pressure. We need to play well, create chances and score goals, then see every week what the situation is.

"For sure it's more difficult now, especially when you know you are creating chances in all of the games but cannot score that second goal and kill the game.

"I can say a lot of things but at the end of the day you need to win if you are to reduce the gap. It's not time for talking, it's time to play well, score goals and win games."

iregk

Well there really is a lot of crap floating around here on this board. Apparently if Liverpool win the league then Sisoko is a great player, as it stands he isn't!!!

Apart from all of this there is a big difference between loyalty and stupidity. Its fine being loyal to one of your own players but not at the expense of being blind to what you really need.

Bable is a great prospect, but for the moment thats all he is, a prospect. Pennant, Sisoko, Kuyt, Crouch, Kewell, Riise are not good enough. Alonso is a great player on his day but when the going gets tough he disappears into nothingness. Hyypia is gone and Liverpool have effectively no defensive cover. Aurelio is a winger not a full back, good on the attack shocking on the back foot. Bridge would be a much better player here.

The fact remains Liverpool get themselves up for one off games and box above their weight. The problem is, the league is not a series of one off games, you can't win the league on penalties. I personally don't think Rafa is good enough to win league titles.

People will go on about his time at Valencia but look at it. His first year he won it with the lowest points tally in years and hasn't been lower since. It was a year of serious Madrid infighting that basically made them implode in April. Barca publically said they were out of it in October as they were in transition. 2nd time Barca said it was a feeder season for the following year as they are building (subsequently won it the following two years), Madrid were in transition and Depor were on the decline.

He came to England where he had a genuine fight with 3 other contenders and lost woefully. He can get them up for a one off game but doesn't have it to keep it together for a league season.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

I recall United fans giving out stink that Fergie kept playing Evra over Heinze, he was awful when he signed, it takes time for players to settle in. [/B

thats exactly what i just said, adding that evra has since proven himself to be a quality player - best LB in league along with clichy this season. Kuyt, for example, has not IMO shown that he is a quality player along with others at Pool - Rafa's problem is that he's not giving the players a chance whereas fergie gave evra time to settle in, rafa seems keen to move these players on with only a season under their belt, Bellamy/Gonzalez etc

Melion wrote: »

If Rio cut out the fancy shíte then he would be a better defender IMO. Id have Vidic before him any day of the week.

this is an old argument IMO. you probably don't like Rio but don't let that blinker you as he has matured as a player and cut out the crap that made people question him when first signed. this season he has been immense and along with vidic/toure/gallas has been the best defender in the league this season and was great last year too. this is in a team that attacks and therefore has less protection for its backline remember!!

also, having 2 Carragher-type players in the team doesnt work so you need a rio OR vidic dependent on who else is in your team.

Melion wrote: »

Hargreaves was laughed out of Old Trafford before the world cup in 2006, that is enough for me to suggest he isnt as good as united fans and the english media would have you think.

why? that makes no sense when you look back at what you've jsut said giving players time etc...

and i don't actually recall him being laughed out of OT - English fans hated him because he wasn't performing (plus the fact he wasn't "English") but i don't recall anything in particular from Utd fans...?

Melion

Hargreaves was shíte before the world cup, was good in Germany that summer(not their player of the tournament as a lot of people said). He looked good in a very poor Bayern side last year and all of a sudden he is worth £25m. Boggles the mind

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

We dont need all that. We need to keep Mascherano, thats why id rather we blood some youngsters now for the wings.

agree you should keep masch, even though Pool fans highly overrate him.

the problem with blooding youngsters is that it takes time which it seems your fans have run out of for Benitez. its a balance between allowing the rebuilding or expecting (for some reason) a proper title challenge

prendy

The fact Babel wasn't on the bench last night spoke volumes for me.

Mike.

+1
what are we holding him back for???
he's 21 and can play every few days if needed.

Melion

I dont think we overrate him, he is 23 and already one of the best holding midfielders in world football. He marked the best player in the world out of the champions league final. He done the same to supposedly the best player in the premiership 2 weeks ago. To get him for £17m is a snip when you consider United paid the same for Carrick and even more for Hargreaves.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

Hargreaves was shíte before the world cup

shíte? not true

Melion wrote: »

was good in Germany that summer(not their player of the tournament as a lot of people said).

i think he was our best player in the world cup (I'm English btw)

Melion wrote: »

He looked good in a very poor Bayern side last year and all of a sudden he is worth £25m. Boggles the mind

your figure had gone from 20 to 25 within a matter of minutes. why are you exaggerating figures? IIRC the figure quoted was 17m and i think thats with the now standard pay x up front the rest if we win the league/CL etc etc

Man Utd always have to pay more for players as others know they can get more out of us, this has proven to be true over the last 10 years and probably will continue to be the case. plus he's english (therefore costs more) and English players usually will not need as much time to adapt to the style of play than a foreigner would - accepted as being the case 90% of the time!

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

I dont think we overrate him, he is 23 and already one of the best holding midfielders in world football. He marked the best player in the world out of the champions league final. He done the same to supposedly the best player in the premiership 2 weeks ago. To get him for £17m is a snip when you consider United paid the same for Carrick and even more for Hargreaves.

well pool fans are overrating him in the sense that you think he's better than Hargreaves. do you not think Hargreaves is better on the ball than masch? has more going forward? Masch to me is solely a defensive mid, Hargreaves is better at the attacking side of his game as well as being a great defensive mid

and again - its the same as whats paid for hargreaves not more

Melion

i think he was our best player in the world cup (I'm English btw)

I thought Joe Cole was, but thats my opinion.

your figure had gone from 20 to 25 within a matter of minutes. why are you exaggerating figures? IIRC the figure quoted was 17m and i think thats with the now standard pay x up front the rest if we win the league/CL etc etc

I never said he cost 20m, i said 20m+. I seem to recall 24m being the figure thrown around the press.

Man Utd always have to pay more for players as others know they can get more out of us, this has proven to be true over the last 10 years and probably will continue to be the case.

Poor poor United, they dont pay anymore for players than any other team.

Melion

p_larkin99 wrote: »

well pool fans are overrating him in the sense that you think he's better than Hargreaves. do you not think Hargreaves is better on the ball than masch? has more going forward? Masch to me is solely a defensive mid, Hargreaves is better at the attacking side of his game as well as being a great defensive mid

and again - its the same as whats paid for hargreaves not more

No i dont think he's better on the ball or going forward, if you have seen much of Masch this season you will have seen how much he has improved in both of those departments. He is a far better player than Hargreaves.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

I thought Joe Cole was, but thats my opinion.

thats fair enough he had a decent tournament too

Melion wrote: »

I never said he cost 20m, i said 20m+. I seem to recall 24m being the figure thrown around the press.

ok you said 20m+ but the FACT is you're exaggerating figures, check anywhere and you'll find the actual price not one "thrown around the press" - the price is the same as Masch's proposed fee.

Melion wrote: »

Poor poor United, they dont pay anymore for players than any other team.

im in no way looking for sympathy here or any sarcastic comments from you, just simply stating how it is. when clubs know Man Utd are involved they can always squeeze out more cash.




Lets not let all this cloud anything - benitez has made some very dodgy buys over a relatively short space of time and for those who may have been decent ones he gave them no time to prove themselves.

Melion

Its not only United who pay over the odds for players. It used to be, but not anymore. Every team pays over the odds for players, especially english ones.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

No i dont think he's better on the ball or going forward, if you have seen much of Masch this season you will have seen how much he has improved in both of those departments. He is a far better player than Hargreaves.

i've no doubt Masch will improve as players do when moving to a bigger and better club.

i still don't see though what you have to prove that Masch is "a far better player" - is this down to the fact that he's quite limited in what he does? sure he's great at marking a player out of a game but phil neville took Viera out of a game a few years back at OT - does this make him a great player?

maybe i expect more from a defensive midfielder due to the way UTD play in comparison to Pool. i expect a DM to be able to be great on the ball and have the ability to get forward and join in with attacks as well as being a great shield when needed.

jesus_thats_gre

iregk wrote: »

People will go on about his time at Valencia but look at it. His first year he won it with the lowest points tally in years and hasn't been lower since. It was a year of serious Madrid infighting that basically made them implode in April. Barca publically said they were out of it in October as they were in transition. 2nd time Barca said it was a feeder season for the following year as they are building (subsequently won it the following two years), Madrid were in transition and Depor were on the decline.

It is very easy to trivialise an achievement..I could as easily claim that United would not have won the league last season if it wasn't for Chelsea imploding. Saying that would actually be quite true but it is still a pointless statement. Winning any league or tournament requires things to go in your favour but you still have to be in the position to take advantage of them when they arrise.

Paul Tergat

Melion wrote: »

Its not only United who pay over the odds for players. It used to be, but not anymore. Every team pays over the odds for players, especially english ones.

and the 3 players you picked out as "terrible dealings" were English, therefore we paid more. still not so sure on what basis they were terrible dealings.

zing

PHB you've made that point repeatedly about bad buys and while I don't entirely disagree with you I believe you are - and always have - looking at it from a far too black and white point of view. Specifically in terms of him not keeping more of Houlier's players for longer. Things you have not taken into account include players ages, time remaining on their contracts, their desire to stay, etc..

It's so so easy to say if he'd kept A + B and not bought C + D or sold A + B and bought sooperdooper player E instead but it's just not that simple. If keeping A & B was realistically a long term option then I'm sure he'd have done it more often than not but if those players contracts were running low, the players themselves were pushing on or the players had simply never set the world alight and were never going to ... Also buying E instead of A + B would have left us with a smaller squad with less depth and less capable of handling injury runs.

Lets try ... if you'd kept kept these 4 players, not bought these additional 4 but bought this 1 guy instead you'd be far better off than you are now and not wasted 17.6 million along the way. Except you'd be down 2 wingers and a CB so good luck if anyone got injured.

some examples of players he's bought or sold:
- Smicer was 31 or 32 when he was sold and iirc his contract was up -- was it worth giving him a new contract or was it better to try bring in a younger/better player ?
- Similarly Biscan's contract was up. He was 27 or so at that stage and hadn't exactly set the world alight - again was it worth giving him a new contract or trying to bring in a younger/better player ?
- Diouf -- there was no chance of keeping him. His exit from the club was decided at board room level and imo (and most others) it was the right decision to get rid of him.
- Baros was given his chance but seemed to continuously ignore the game plan. Sold on for a 3m profit iirc so that was hardly bad business
- Cisse -- a complete one trick pony who was also given his chance. Yes he was sold on for a loss but would Rafa have bought him to begin with ?
- Murphy wanted out
- Owen was looking for greener pastures in ... er ... Newcastle
- Hamann - sold on at 32 (?). This season at City he's proven he still has plenty to offer but he was the aging player competing in a relatively young midfield (in comparison to him). He served the club well but his chances were increasingly limited and he left.
- Traore - why he kept him for so long is beyond me..
- Dudek - was too unreliable and didn't like being dropped to the bench behind Reina.
- Kirkland - wasn't happy playing second fiddle to Dudek and who could blame him.

That (I think) is the bulk of the main Houlier era players he's sold. With the exception of the kaiser I for one have no problems with him not giving those players a fair chance and I'm only including the kaiser there as I'm being a bit sentimental and would love to have seen him see out his career at Anfield.

Then we go onto his own players and I agree there have been some dodgy buys in there.
- Garcia. You've listed as a waste of money but based on what he contributed to the team during his time there I don't think any Liverpool supporter would agree with you - sure he frustrated the hell out of us at times but his moments of magic were just that and were worth it. Yes we got less for him than we paid for him but he was older, his contract was running down, etc.. so we were never likely to make a profit on his transfer. However I feel he more than made up for it in his contribution during his stay.
- Morientes. Didn't work out and is probably Rafa's most high profile bad buy. But I'll ask you the same question I always ask people who criticise that move ... based on Morientes track record and the fee he was available for - would you have taken the punt on him ?
- Pellegrino cost nothing and contributed nothing ... on the pitch. However many say his contribution was in terms of coaching.
- Josemi was bought as cover for Finnan - didn't settle and was swapped for Kromkamp who again didn't settle and was sold on at a .5m loss over what was paid for Josemi.
- Zenden cost nothing and released for nothing. Never liked him as a player but he did contribute - just not enough imo.
- Paletta - didn't settle and didn't work out. Swapped for Insua who looks like a good prospect. So a loss on Paletta but it remains to be seen whether or not that's offset by Insua.
- Bellamy - was never good enough, should not have been bought imo but at least we made a profit.
- Gonzalez - that he didn't work out surprised many of us (including yourself based on previous comments here iirc). Said to have been some off the pitch issues with him but I never saw any substance to that.

Trying to remember other recent players who left - Fowler was released and Padelli (sp ?) loan move was up and he went back to wherever he came from. Oh yeah - Pongolle was sold and despite many of us having a liking for him he was never going to make it - that Rafa kept him til last summer suggests he was given a chance. Also - he wanted away as he wasnt' getting the game time. Others he still can't get rid off - e.g. Le Tallec.

Of the regular players he's bought who are still there I'm not happy with a few of them wearing a Liverpool shirt - e.g. Pennant and others have largely flopped - e.g. Kuyt.

Also - and it's something you yourself have said here before - Liverpool like Utd like Chelsea like Arsenal like Madrid like Milan like etc... are not selling clubs - they are buying clubs. They always pay over the odds (to varying degrees - Arsenal probably being the meanest here ) and will often get slightly less when they sell a player on. Therefore the odds are slightly stacked against Rafa in terms of wasting money.

Some of his buys were clearly stop gaps until the club was sold and he got the purse strings loosened a bit - Pellegrino, Zenden & Fowler were clear examples of this. Bellamy too most likely. Stop gaps until the club is sold were fine in theory but few saw that process taking so long and stop gaps tend to build up & up and cost a lot in the long term. Another place where hindsight is brilliant but what choice have you when you're being told there's a wad of cash just around the corner.

His first summer he brought in 2 main players - Garcia & Alonso and some cover and was only selling Murphy until Owen decided he was off. That season he we had major injury problems with 9 or 10 regular players out injured at one stage (how we managed to progress in the CL that year sometimes amazes me more than winning it did). I think that season had a huge influence on his transfer policy since with him learning about the more physical nature of the prem and the need for more cover in all positions.

As I said at the start I don't entirely disagree with you and I'm not trying to overly defend some of his decisions - I just wish you'd take the bigger picture into account before spouting off about his crap transfer history.

zing

mike65 wrote: »

From telegraph



Now this is actualy interesting, looks like Riise is on his way (to sunny Spain proberbly)

Mike.

Not happening apparently:

Despite speculation, Liverpool have today ruled out any interest whatsoever in a move for Chelsea defender Wayne Bridge.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=steve-finnan-we-8217-re-blowing-title-dreams%26method=full%26objectid=20309888%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

mike65

*shruggs* Okay it'll be someone else. Or not. Depending.

Mike.

Zapp Brannigan

It's smoke and mirrors mike. We're actually going to sign David Silva and David Villa in a swap deal with Riise and Momo. I heard it from an inside source

astrofool

Just on the point of Ferdinand's transfer fee and Hargreaves. Ferdinand was bought at the height of the transfer fee "bubble", that consequently collapsed until Abramovich bought Chelsea and started pushing it up again (Woodgate was sold for 8m just a few months later, and there was never a 22m difference in talent between the two). However, Ferdinand paid it back when Utd won the league that year.

Hargreaves was always played out of position in the English team, left mid, right back, right mid etc. when he was put in the middle of the park, he was their best player, he has been fantastic so far for Utd. when fit, and makes a huge difference in the big games, providing excellent cover for the back 4 (e.g. Arsenal and Liverpool games), if he keeps his fitness, he'll be one of Utd's best players this season, regardless of how Utd finish. His fee was £17m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6707995.stm) less than that bandied about for Masch (£18m).

Jazzy

rafa god bless him has made some terrible buys.
i think this is more down to the funds he had available and the job he had to do.

think about it, before the yank ownership we had a very poor squad on all fronts. we had so much unprofitable dead weight it would make the spruce moose look feasible and the fact was we had to build from the ground up (gerrard, carra, hyypia and finnan were the only real talents.... dont say broken michael owen). we had also just got Cisse, cheers for that Houllier :rolleyes:

Rafa had to rebuild the team with limited enough funds available for the task. he isnt as shrewd as wenger in the transfer market (who is?) but he knew wat positions needed strengthened first. Luis Garcia won us the CL imo (juve and chelski) and alonso is a solid player when in form.
Morientes seemed like a very good buy on paper but he didnt work out (both he and rafa adjusting to the PL imo) and Agger seems like he will be quite a solid player.
Every player rafa has bought has been quite disposable imo (except torres and babel) and he didnt seem to have any qualms about letting go of josemi, garcia and co.

I think when he has felt his squad is complete enough (with the exception of a reserve defender maybe) thats when he has decided to splash out. Torres we all know of and Babel is coming on strong and has a knack for goals. I think that is why there was all the frustration about this transfer window as he wanted to add to the squad on that level again. I think he knows that yossi and pennant are just stop gap attackers and when the opportunity to make real world class signings comes along he'll sell them in a heartbeat.

overall i wouldnt summarise rafa as being "useless" in the transfer market as he has made some successful signings, but he has been going into it with one hand tied behind his back. hopefully thats changing but after all the ruckus in november and the recent results - it doesnt bode well

herbieflowers

Maybe Liverpool fans' expectations of their club were too high this season. You don't go from also-rans to title-winners / serious contenders in a year in my opinion...

Jazzy

astrofool wrote: »

Just on the point of Ferdinand's transfer fee and Hargreaves. Ferdinand was bought at the height of the transfer fee "bubble", that consequently collapsed until Abramovich bought Chelsea and started pushing it up again (Woodgate was sold for 8m just a few months later, and there was never a 22m difference in talent between the two). However, Ferdinand paid it back when Utd won the league that year.

Hargreaves was always played out of position in the English team, left mid, right back, right mid etc. when he was put in the middle of the park, he was their best player, he has been fantastic so far for Utd. when fit, and makes a huge difference in the big games, providing excellent cover for the back 4 (e.g. Arsenal and Liverpool games), if he keeps his fitness, he'll be one of Utd's best players this season, regardless of how Utd finish. His fee was £17m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6707995.stm) less than that bandied about for Masch (£18m).

NOOOOOOO!!!
stop coming up with facts will you! did you not see the title of this thread?
its called "Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008 / Imagination Land"
can u not accept that ferdinand is really really crap even tho he continuosly gets his game for club and country and has won all those medals? if you close your eyes and try real hard you can make any player crap in this thread

kida

astrofool wrote: »

. His fee was £17m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6707995.stm) less than that bandied about for Masch (£18m).

add in the loan fee already paid and he costs a lot more - Hargreaves seems a more dynamic player than Mascherano - much more likely to appear on the right wing and cross the ball

zing

astrofool wrote: »

less than that bandied about for Masch (£18m).

The fee for Masch is said to be 17m but supposedly something like 8 or 9m of that would be his wages over 5 years.

citytillidie

herbieflowers wrote: »

Maybe Liverpool fans' expectations of their club were too high this season. You don't go from also-rans to title-winners / serious contenders in a year in my opinion...

Arsenal

herbieflowers

Well the thing about Arsenal is that everyone knew it was only a matter of time before those players peaked and began to play, it was just that nobody expected it would happen without Messrs Henry...