Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Tusky

Ive avoiding this thread until now because I knew I would be frustrated by some of posts from fans of other clubs in a similar way to the narrow win over Derby and draw with Man City. Very disappointed with the game yesterday and we can safely say that the league is over and done with now. It is still possible to mount a challenge but now more unlikely than ever and would take a miracle on our part and disasters on other teams parts which will not happen. We have won 2, drawn 2 & lost 2 of our last 6. Anyone who reads my posts on here will know that I'm not one to be over critical of Rafa, but a couple of things struck me from yesterdays game and a few other games this season.

Playing one of the worst sides in the league at home, you obviously have to go for it and attack. I was a little worried when I saw the team sheet. Dont get me wrong, its a formation that I like and with the players we have I think its our strongest but...two holding DMs against wigan ? The only way that is acceptable is if you are playing 4-3-3 with Gerrard in a free role and the wingers playing much further up the pitch as wide strikers. like this

---

Alonso--Mascherano

---

Gerrard

Pennant

---

Kewell

---

Torres

You can see in that formation, they are playing more so as wide strikers than regular wingers and this is fine except...Pennant has only scored one goal for us in a whopping 64 apperances and Kewell has hardly been scoring for fun. So he basically played two wing forwards who dont score. I also think that formation is much more suited to playing against tough opposition that you want to hit on the counter attack.

Take a look at the goals scored from the team that played and you will see what I mean.

Torres - 16
Gerrard - 12
Alonso - 2
Penannt - 0
Kewell - 0
Mascherano - 0
Arbeloa - 0
Carragher - 0
Aurelio - 0
Finnan - 0

Personally I think he should have played an attacking 4-4-2 with Gerrard and either Mascherano & Alonso in the middle & Benayoun/Babel/Kewll on the wings. Torres & Crouch up front. At least that team has more goals in it with Babel & Benayoun on 6 and we all know Crouch can score. Babel wasnt even on the bench, we were playing a system that he is used to with a wide attacking wing forward and he didn't feature. Boggles the mind. The guy is our third most expensive signing and has scored 6 times in the limited apperances he has been given. I know he sometimes doesn't look great when he starts but he needs a run of games.

What frustrated me more than anything yesterday was our defending. We were playing against, lets face it, one of the worst teams in the league who offered pretty much nothing going forward yet we kept shooting ourselves in the foot. The defending was awful. They had one chance and they scored from it.

I have to commend Torres though, I thought he was excellent and we saw a side of him that we haven't really seen thus far. His passing was great and created a few chances with clever through balls or switching from wing to wing. He constantly made runs and looked dangerous.

One final point, I really wish Rafa would make substitutions earlier. Has he ever made one before the 65th minute ? He seems to leave players on no matter how badly they are playing. And whats this new thing of throwing on a striker to play on the wing if we are losing in the last 10 minutes. Has it ever worked for us ?

Pighead

Melion wrote: »

Hargreaves was shíte before the world cup, was good in Germany that summer(not their player of the tournament as a lot of people said). He looked good in a very poor Bayern side last year and all of a sudden he is worth £25m. Boggles the mind

I have a feeling you haven't a clue what you're talking about here. How did Hargreaves look good in a very poor Bayern side last year? He was injured for most of the season and played 9 league games in total. You then claim he was ****e before the World Cup even though he was a regular in a very good Bayern side who won 4 league titles a few German cups and a Champions League.

You then deny that he was Englands player of the tournament in 2006 even though he was given that accolade by the very same people who booed him at Old Trafford and whose opinion you valued enough to make you decide he wasn't up to it. Strange logic.

dc69

I think alot of this discussion is not looking at the fact that liverpool should have beat wigan last night and the team rafa has should be able to beat every team in the pl except maybe the other top clubs,where you would still expect to beat at home or at least get a draw eg utd game.

we can talk wingers and strikers all we want but it now looks like it could be rafa,people are coming on and saying we have such weak players blah blah,we still have a better team than any other team outside the top 4 and should therefore be beating them.

Rafa so far does not have a set 11,has no set formation,rotation policy is ****,he seems to think that if you have an unbelievable player like torres,gerrard or carra,they can play every game but yet the other players need to be rotated even if they are younger and fitter than say gerrard.
its ludacris at this point and i wouldnt be surprised if he goes,i dont want him to go,but if i owned the club and my manager is continously drawing and loosing to clubs with no world class players and teams of probably an 8th of the value of our team i would be pissed.


I think babel opitimises our goals problem,him and yossi are our only wingers to score this year,pennant i can only recount scoring once in his whole anfield career and kewell has scored 12 goals in 4 years.babel has scored 6 goals this season alone,from being brought on as a sub most times!and he wasnt even on the benchfor this game.
more goals than dirk kuyt and andriy voronin put together this season!and he was playing from the wing,if he put babel up front and started him i would guess he would have scored at least double that,so he would have scored 12,thats not bad for a kid in his first year in pl

herbieflowers

Is Liverpool's mediocrity in the league, if I may say so, a tactical thing? Is Benitez signing the right types of players?

dc69

herbieflowers wrote: »

Is Liverpool's mediocrity in the league, if I may say so, a tactical thing? Is Benitez signing the right types of players?

i think you have got it in one,he has signed some good players but also alot of ****e and regardless of that his tactics in the league are questionable,we should still be hammering teams like wigan at home and beating man city away(even though they are punching above weight)

Thanx 4 The Fish

dc69 wrote: »

i think you have got it in one,he has signed some good players but also alot of ****e and regardless of that his tactics in the league are questionable,we should still be hammering teams like wigan at home and beating man city away(even though they are punching above weight)

How has he signe a lot of sh1te ? what counts as a lot these days. He has certainly performed better in the transfer market than most managers in the league.

Jazzy

Pighead wrote: »

I have a feeling you haven't a clue what you're talking about here. How did Hargreaves look good in a very poor Bayern side last year? He was injured for most of the season and played 9 league games in total. You then claim he was ****e before the World Cup even though he was a regular in a very good Bayern side who won 4 league titles a few German cups and a Champions League.

You then deny that he was Englands player of the tournament in 2006 even though he was given that accolade by the very same people who booed him at Old Trafford and whose opinion you valued enough to make you decide he wasn't up to it. Strange logic.

and the quarter back is toast...

Tusky

Tusky wrote: »

Ive avoiding this thread until now because I knew I would be frustrated by some of posts from fans of other clubs in a similar way to the narrow win over Derby and draw with Man City. Very disappointed with the game yesterday and we can safely say that the league is over and done with now. It is still possible to mount a challenge but now more unlikely than ever and would take a miracle on our part and disasters on other teams parts which will not happen. We have won 2, drawn 2 & lost 2 of our last 6. Anyone who reads my posts on here will know that I'm not one to be over critical of Rafa, but a couple of things struck me from yesterdays game and a few other games this season.

Playing one of the worst sides in the league at home, you obviously have to go for it and attack. I was a little worried when I saw the team sheet. Dont get me wrong, its a formation that I like and with the players we have I think its our strongest but...two holding DMs against wigan ? The only way that is acceptable is if you are playing 4-3-3 with Gerrard in a free role and the wingers playing much further up the pitch as wide strikers. like this

---

Alonso--Mascherano

---

Gerrard

Pennant

---

Kewell

---

Torres

You can see in that formation, they are playing more so as wide strikers than regular wingers and this is fine except...Pennant has only scored one goal for us in a whopping 64 apperances and Kewell has hardly been scoring for fun. So he basically played two wing forwards who dont score. I also think that formation is much more suited to playing against tough opposition that you want to hit on the counter attack.

Take a look at the goals scored from the team that played and you will see what I mean.

Torres - 16
Gerrard - 12
Alonso - 2
Penannt - 0
Kewell - 0
Mascherano - 0
Arbeloa - 0
Carragher - 0
Aurelio - 0
Finnan - 0

Personally I think he should have played an attacking 4-4-2 with Gerrard and either Mascherano & Alonso in the middle & Benayoun/Babel/Kewll on the wings. Torres & Crouch up front. At least that team has more goals in it with Babel & Benayoun on 6 and we all know Crouch can score. Babel wasnt even on the bench, we were playing a system that he is used to with a wide attacking wing forward and he didn't feature. Boggles the mind. The guy is our third most expensive signing and has scored 6 times in the limited apperances he has been given. I know he sometimes doesn't look great when he starts but he needs a run of games.

What frustrated me more than anything yesterday was our defending. We were playing against, lets face it, one of the worst teams in the league who offered pretty much nothing going forward yet we kept shooting ourselves in the foot. The defending was awful. They had one chance and they scored from it.

I have to commend Torres though, I thought he was excellent and we saw a side of him that we haven't really seen thus far. His passing was great and created a few chances with clever through balls or switching from wing to wing. He constantly made runs and looked dangerous.

One final point, I really wish Rafa would make substitutions earlier. Has he ever made one before the 65th minute ? He seems to leave players on no matter how badly they are playing. And whats this new thing of throwing on a striker to play on the wing if we are losing in the last 10 minutes. Has it ever worked for us ?

Couldn't agree more here. I really thought this might be our year but we've blown it now. One possitive though is the fact that we got a world class striker in Torress. We really need to strengthen our left & right side of midfield. It just hasn't been good enough this year. It annoys me however when people call for Rafa's head, hes changed the team totally and brought class in ,in so many positions.

Unearthly

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

How has he signe a lot of sh1te ? what counts as a lot these days. He has certainly performed better in the transfer market than most managers in the league.

Yeah but most managers in the premiership since he took over have been sacked

Guy:Incognito

KaG1888 wrote: »

It annoys me however when people call for Rafa's head, hes changed the team totally and brought class in ,in so many positions.

Yes but the problem is we havent improved in the league at all really.

Nunu

Melion wrote: »

I recall United fans giving out stink that Fergie kept playing Evra over Heinze, he was awful when he signed, it takes time for players to settle in.

If Rio cut out the fancy shíte then he would be a better defender IMO. Id have Vidic before him any day of the week.

Hargreaves was laughed out of Old Trafford before the world cup in 2006, that is enough for me to suggest he isnt as good as united fans and the english media would have you think.

Melion, I can't take anyone seriously who at this stage can't admit that Ferdinand is a wonderful centre half...for Gods sake will you make your mind up on him, a few weeks ago you were putting him in the 'world class' bracket of defenders!?

As for your views on Hargreaves. That's just totally uninformed nonsense. if anything I would have thought him outclassing Mascherano at Anfield would have finally nipped yours and others low opinion of Hargreaves in the bud?

dc69

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

How has he signe a lot of sh1te ? what counts as a lot these days. He has certainly performed better in the transfer market than most managers in the league.

gonzales,belamy,benayoun,pennant,voronin,kuyt

theres a list of a few,look at wenger's team full of young quality,look at ferguson's anderson,ronaldo,nani and thats just the last few years.maybe he hasnt had enough money but look at eduardo or adebayor ,they didnt cost a fortune ,although i know wenger is very good at spotting young talent

gonzales was looking good and was a fast proper winger,but he didnt even give him a chance!that says alot

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes but the problem is we havent improved in the league at all really.

Well thats not really true. I don't think we will be 20 points off utd at the end of the league this year. I also don't think we need another 2 or 3 world class players to beat the likes of Wigan. The squad is more than good enough for that.

gonzales,belamy,benayoun,pennant,voronin,kuyt

theres a list of a few,look at wenger's team full of young quality,look at ferguson's anderson,ronaldo,nani and thats just the last few years.maybe he hasnt had enough money but look at eduardo or adebayor ,they didnt cost a fortune ,although i know wenger is very good at spotting young talent

gonzales was looking good and was a fast proper winger,but he didnt even give him a chance!that says alot

Id rather not get into a big discussion about this but you are talking out of your arse. Benayoun was bought for about 4 million and has been great for that price. If Benitez could have have got someone of a higher class, he would have. Voronin was a free to replace Fowler. Gonzalez came with a good reputation and everyone thought he would be a success....but he was awful, I was glad when he was sold. When exactly was he looking good ? All he did was boot the ball up the field and run after it. I could count the amount of times he got a good cross into the box or beat his man on one hand. Hes now playing for a mid table team in La Liga and hes not getting his game.

Belamy was bought for 6m because of a clause in his contract and was clearly just a stop gap until we could afford a proper pacey forward (Torres). He was sold at a profit. Kuyt did ok last year, didnt set the world alight but got 14/15 goals, he has disappointed this year. Penannt was 6m and has done fairly well.

Benitez has done ok in the transfer marker if you ask me. Torres, Crouch, Mascherano, Alonso, Babel, Agger, Garcia, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Reina, Lucas are all good buys. Benayoun was a nice bit of business and has done well for us this year. Rafa isnt stupid, he knows that we lack quality up front and on the wings. My prediction is that we will get a CB/LB in January. In the summer we will see the likes of Riise, Sissoko, Pennant, Crouch & maybe one other striker sold. We will then buy at least 1 striker & winger & tie up Mascherano.

You mention that Ferguson bought Nani, Anderson & Ronaldo. Well Rafa tried to buy Ronaldo but didnt have the funds and there was no way he could afford to splash 35 odd million on potential in Nani & Anderson. Anderson looks great but I dont rate Nani although he may develop into a good winger.

theres a list of a few,look at wenger's team full of young qualit

How long has Wenger been in the job ? He has been buying young talent for years and its stating to come into fruition. The two situations are incomparable.

mayordenis

i have actually been following hargreaves for a long time and straight away six or so years ago i wanted liverpool to sign him, but i must say melion isn't being unreasonable in his mutterings, i loved owen hargreaves up until that world cup and i watched him very closely he really wasn't great, it's just that nobody expected much out of him and he performed to a reasonable level wheras people expected the world from gerrard and lampard and gerrard played at a higher level than mr hargreaves, and lampard probably had the biggest drop in form of his career, plain bad luck.
but all in all he's not worth 25m he's maybe worth in and about 7m.

Melion

Nunu wrote: »

Melion, I can't take anyone seriously who at this stage can't admit that Ferdinand is a wonderful centre half...for Gods sake will you make your mind up on him, a few weeks ago you were putting him in the 'world class' bracket of defenders!?

As for your views on Hargreaves. That's just totally uninformed nonsense. if anything I would have thought him outclassing Mascherano at Anfield would have finally nipped yours and others low opinion of Hargreaves in the bud?

He's good, he's close to being one of the best in the league. If he cut out the fancy shíte he would probably be the best. The reason i would take Vidic ahead of him is the same reason i would take Terry and Carra ahead of him. They dont fart around with the ball, they are all just as good positionally but just show a lot more heart and desire for their teams. Just my own opinion.

How did he outclass Mascherano at Anfield? Masch was too busy ensuring Ronaldo was taken out of the game for those 2 to even come together in the centre.

event

Melion wrote: »

He's good, he's close to being one of the best in the league. If he cut out the fancy shíte he would probably be the best. The reason i would take Vidic ahead of him is the same reason i would take Terry and Carra ahead of him. They dont fart around with the ball, they are all just as good positionally but just show a lot more heart and desire for their teams. Just my own opinion.

so you dont think he is one of the best in the league already?
holy ****, i presumed everyone who followed football at least acnowledged that.

he doesnt fart around with the ball? he actually passes it, thats all, instead of just hoofing it up field. he doesnt look as good as them as he rarely has to dive in with a last gap tackle or header as his positioning, reading and pace has him there before others. Take terry ahead of him? possibly the most over rated centre half in england, the turning circle of a bus and slow as hell.

i dont know what to say about that, i really dont

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Well thats not really true. I don't think we will be 20 points off utd at the end of the league this year. I also don't think we need another 2 or 3 world class players to beat the likes of Wigan. The squad is more than good enough for that.
.

The point is we didnt beat Wigan though and while it's possible we may not finish 20 points off the top. But we didnt finish 20 points off the top every season with Houllier (or Evans for that matter) either.

It just feels like more of the same.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

The point is we didnt beat Wigan though and while it's possible we may not finish 20 points off the top. But we didnt finish 20 points off the top every season with Houllier (or Evans for that matter) either.

It just feels like more of the same.

Well, our squad is a hell of a lot better now than it has been in anywhere recent seasons. I definitely feel progress has been made. Our consistent ineptitude in the league is hard to take though.

Unearthly

event wrote: »

so you dont think he is one of the best in the league already?
holy ****, i presumed everyone who followed football at least acnowledged that.

he doesnt fart around with the ball? he actually passes it, thats all, instead of just hoofing it up field. he doesnt look as good as them as he rarely has to dive in with a last gap tackle or header as his positioning, reading and pace has him there before others. Take terry ahead of him? possibly the most over rated centre half in england, the turning circle of a bus and slow as hell.

i dont know what to say about that, i really dont

what he said

A lot of people prefer the blood and guts type of defenders, because what they do stands out more, such as last ditch attempts to stop the attacker. Most of the time Rio Ferdinand stops it from ever getting to there so doesn't look like much.

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Well, our squad is a hell of a lot better now than it has been in anywhere recent seasons.

I'm not doubting that but none of it has resulted in a better league standing.

d22ontour

KaG1888 wrote: »

One possitive though is the fact that we got a world class striker in Torress.

True , a great signing.

KaG1888 wrote: »

We really need to strengthen our left & right side of midfield.

Liverpools no 1 priority should be to sign Mascherano and nothing else.If he is allowed slip through your fingers it would really be a step backwards imo.

el rabitos

the eternal optimism is astounding.

i have foreseen it, soon we shall all chant and post here in unison with rafa as he conducts the post match interview, all together now....

"for sure we controlled the game, but always we say when you control the game you must take your chances, no?"

its cool though, this season we wont be 20 points behind man united, we'll just be one or two behind man city.

JimiTime

Do any Liverpool fans here actually think that liverpool will win the PL within the next 5 years? Personally, I don't even see potential beyond where they are now. They are below Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea by a long shot and for a long time IMO. Time will tell, but they need alot more Fernando Torres' to mount a serious challenge. I see more potential in Man City tbh. Liverpool are a negative side who are not entertaining, with the exception of Torres and the odd burst of brilliance from Gerrard. The fact that they look like an average side, means that their lack of entertainment is magnified. If You're winning you tend to overlook entertainment value, but Liverpool are neither. I am a neutral, I love good football, including 'good' defensive football, but I see very little to hop for at Liverpool with Benitez as coach. Time will tell, but if something drastic is not done, I think Liverpool will find themselves scrapping for 4th place for seasons to come. I hope thats not the case, but I certainly can't see it any other way, especially if Svens revolution keeps gaining momentum.

Pighead

JimiTime wrote: »

Do any Liverpool fans here actually think that liverpool will win the PL within the next 5 years? Personally, I don't even see potential beyond where they are now.

I think that's a bit much. 5 years is a hell of a long time. Of course Liverpool could win it in that time frame. I'm sure United fans in 89/90 were thinking they were a million years away from overhauling Liverpool/Arsenal/Villa!

Sometimes it just takes a stroke of luck (Robins) or a certain player(Cantona) to make everything click into place and turn around the clubs misfortunes.

That said, they definitely won't win it in the next 4 years!

Unearthly

5 years ago Arsenal were starting to look like they would dominate the premiership for ages with their team, no-one predicted that slump they went through.

Way too much stuff can happen to predict

JimiTime

Pighead wrote: »

I think that's a bit much. 5 years is a hell of a long time. Of course Liverpool could win it in that time frame. I'm sure United fans in 89/90 were thinking they were a million years away from overhauling Liverpool/Arsenal/Villa!

Sometimes it just takes a stroke of luck (Robins) or a certain player(Cantona) to make everything click into place and turn around the clubs misfortunes.

I was only 9 at that stage so I can't really say, however, my point is that Rafa cannot do it. I see potential in Sven and Man city, I really don't see Rafa's brand of football winning titles. Maybe back in the day I would have seen potential in Fergusons brand, I don't really know. Yes, Liverpool can do it, but only under different stewardship IMO.

That said, they definitely won't win it in the next 4 years!

Pighead

JimiTime wrote: »

I was only 9 at that stage so I can't really say, however, my point is that Rafa cannot do it. I see potential in Sven and Man city, I really don't see Rafa's brand of football winning titles. Maybe back in the day I would have seen potential in Fergusons brand, I don't really know. Yes, Liverpool can do it, but only under different stewardship IMO.

Course you wouldn't have! Ferguson was under enormous pressure from the fans to be given the boot. "He's had his 3 years" they cried."Mike Phelan is pants" they yelled! United finished outside the top 10 for 2 succesive seasons around this time, and this despite him spending pretty big! Can you imagine how disillusioned the fans were?

I'm still not really sure how he survived to be honest. Its without doubt one of the greatest strokes of luck in the modern game that he was given so much time by Edwards.

d22ontour

Pighead wrote: »

I'm still not really sure how he survived to be honest. Its without doubt one of the greatest strokes of luck in the modern game that he was given so much time by Edwards.

Edwards probably thought ' well we are still in the same position we were in the previous 20/30 years or so , whats another year or two' .

citytillidie

Forget about the fighting

Just sit back and enjoy these videos

http://www.stage6.com/videos/search:liverpool+fc?page=1

Tusky

This thread should be renamed 'manchester utd fans discuss Liverpool rumours & general discussion'.

Ive no problems with fans of different teams posting in each others threads but the constant endless negativity that gets posted in this thread is frustrating. Alot of it is mindless bull**** as well.

"Liverpool definitely wont win the title for at least 5 years" "They below Arsenal, Chelsea & Utd by a long shot and for a long time".

I'm not gonna write a big reply but all I'll say is this. Liverpool finished above Arsenal in the premiership for the last two years. They also got further in the champions league 2 our of the last 3 years, winning it once and getting to the final. They have matched Arsenals Fa cup achievements, both winning it once in the last 3 years.

Dont be at yourself

too true!

and i doubt im the only fan who has been put off reading this thread due to all the rubbish...

it's theirishkop for me from now on, i think

Chardee MacDennis

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

too true!

and i doubt im the only fan who has been put off reading this thread due to all the rubbish...

+1

citytillidie

Tusky wrote: »

This thread should be renamed 'manchester utd fans discuss Liverpool rumours & general discussion'.

Ive no problems with fans of different teams posting in each others threads but the constant endless negativity that gets posted in this thread is frustrating. Alot of it is mindless bull**** as well.

"Liverpool definitely wont win the title for at least 5 years" "They below Arsenal, Chelsea & Utd by a long shot and for a long time".

I'm not gonna write a big reply but all I'll say is this. Liverpool finished above Arsenal in the premiership for the last two years. They also got further in the champions league 2 our of the last 3 years, winning it once and getting to the final. They have matched Arsenals Fa cup achievements, both winning it once in the last 3 years.

All it proves is that Man U fans like the team manager is obsessed with Liverpool Football Club

Unearthly

waaah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Jesus lads grow up. So many times people moan at opposition fans posting in other teams topics because they post a view that upsets them. Deal with it

If you think people post rubbish, then either block them, or reply to their posts pointing out why their posts are rubbish.

mayordenis

Unearthly wrote: »

waaah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Jesus lads grow up. So many times people moan at opposition fans posting in other teams topics because they post a view that upsets them. Deal with it

If you think people post rubbish, then either block them, or reply to their posts pointing out why their posts are rubbish.

yea but its constant here, i'd love to be able to discuss liverpool with some other liverpool fans, but biased supporters of mostly come in here spout **** all day long, nearly all of which know nothing of football or liverpool.

Jazzy

i like the thread but any reasonable conversation gets wasted in post -by- post fighting such as the one melion just had there.

Unearthly

mayordenis wrote: »

yea but its constant here, i'd love to be able to discuss liverpool with some other liverpool fans, but biased supporters of mostly come in here spout **** all day long, nearly all of which know nothing of football or liverpool.

To be fair if you want to discuss football with soley other Liverpool fans, there are hundreds of sites around the internet.

I personally don't have a problem with it. When West Ham beat Man Utd a few days ago, a few Liverpool fans posted in the Man Utd topic and got stick which I thought was uncalled for. I'm reading this topic and all I see are different opinions. I'm sure there are Liverpool fans who think the points you think are rubbish are correct.

Melion

Jazzy wrote: »

i like the thread but any reasonable conversation gets wasted in post -by- post fighting such as the one melion just had there.

What fight?

I admitted last night that we were out of the title race, i stated that i dont think too much money needs to be spent. Then all of a sudden united fans come in stating how poor Rafa is in the transfer market.

Paul Tergat

Yeah if you're referring to my comments i dont think it can be in any way a fight, all seemed perfectly above board and i took on what Melion said, whether i agreed with it or not.

It's nice to actually talk to other fans, rather than just with your own and hear the blinkered responses - maybe i do overrate Hargreaves

JimiTime

Tusky wrote: »

This thread should be renamed 'manchester utd fans discuss Liverpool rumours & general discussion'.

Ive no problems with fans of different teams posting in each others threads but the constant endless negativity that gets posted in this thread is frustrating. Alot of it is mindless bull**** as well.

"Liverpool definitely wont win the title for at least 5 years" "They below Arsenal, Chelsea & Utd by a long shot and for a long time".
.

Firstly, i said in my post I was neutral, so all this MAN u supporters coming over here winding us up' is bull. Second of all, I didn't think this was a playground. I gave an opinion based on my own assessment of Liverpool FC. I would personally love to see Liverpool return to their former glory, but really don't think it'll happen with Benitez. I did not realise that this was a 'lets all just say how gr8 our club is' thread. i have to say, your post reminded me of why i'm not a 'fan' of any team, but rather of the beautiful game itself!

I'm not gonna write a big reply but all I'll say is this. Liverpool finished above Arsenal in the premiership for the last two years. They also got further in the champions league 2 our of the last 3 years, winning it once and getting to the final. They have matched Arsenals Fa cup achievements, both winning it once in the last 3 years

Now, it would have been alot better to just post your answer above. So I'll ask my question again. Do you think Liverpool will win the league in the next 5 years? Do you think Rafa is the man to make you dominant again? Its a genuine question!

kryogen

if you are telking about rafas apparent 5 year plan should he not have used up 3 of his years now including this one? so maybe it should be do you think liverpool will win the league in the next 2 seasons?

d22ontour

JimiTime wrote: »

I did not realise that this was a 'lets all just say how gr8 our club is' thread.

Apparently that's what is wanted.

:rolleyes:

JimiTime wrote: »

Do you think Liverpool will win the league in the next 5 years? Do you think Rafa is the man to make you dominant again? Its a genuine question!

That question can't be taking seriously tbh.It's the beautiful game as you called it and we love it because of it's ability to give us the most bizarre outcomes at times.

The yanks could sell the Pool to some billionaire who could throws bucketloads of money at Rafa to buy the best 'hopefully that never happens'.



1 season at a time maybe 2 at most but even then it couldn't be predicted imo.

Tusky

JimiTime wrote: »

Firstly, i said in my post I was neutral, so all this MAN u supporters coming over here winding us up' is bull. Second of all, I didn't think this was a playground. I gave an opinion based on my own assessment of Liverpool FC. I would personally love to see Liverpool return to their former glory, but really don't think it'll happen with Benitez. I did not realise that this was a 'lets all just say how gr8 our club is' thread. i have to say, your post reminded me of why i'm not a 'fan' of any team, but rather of the beautiful game itself!

Well about 50% of posts on each page seems to be united fans telling us how **** Liverpool are and how the players and the manager arent good enough. Ive no problem with this but it goes on and on and on and it gets boring. For some reason it seems to have gotten much worse over the last 2 months. Again, Ive no problem having intelligent informed debates with opposing fans but all this 'Liverpool are ****' talk isnt really worth debating.

If you read some of my posts on the last couple of pages, I certainly haven't been singing the clubs praises so that point about 'lets just say how great our club is' isn't relevant.

By the way, I didnt mean to single you out. I don't know if you post on this thread regularly but your post was just the tip of the iceberg and my reply was in relation to 100s of posts from the last couple of months so apologies if you felt I was singling you out.

JimiTime wrote: »

Now, it would have been alot better to just post your answer above. So I'll ask my question again. Do you think Liverpool will win the league in the next 5 years? Do you think Rafa is the man to make you dominant again? Its a genuine question!

I'm not going to answer that because I think its an absolutely ridiculous question. No one knows what will happen in 5 years time. 5 years ago Chelsea hadn't won the premiership and were only a shadow of what they are now. Liverpool might be struggling in mid-table in 5 years or they might have won the treble. I dont have a crystal ball and neither do you. Who knows what players will even be at Liverpool in 5 years?!??!

I like Rafa but question his decisions from time to time. He has got a great track record and we have won some big trophy's under him so I am willing to give him 1 or 2 more seasons to see what happens. Will he make us dominant again ? Ive no idea.

---

Just one final point. This is one of the most active threads on boards.ie. Theres lots and lots of Liverpool fans who love the club that post on this thread. The thread used to be about rationally discussing the team, matches, players - complimenting them or giving opinions on how they weren't good enough. There would be occasional debates with other fans, which is fine and good because you can obviously sometimes see your own team through rose tinted glasses. I hope you can appreciate, that over the last couple months, the thread seems to be 90% arguments. There are fans of opposing teams that will post here and you can have an informed rational debate with but all the 'Liverpool are ****' posts are clogging up the thread and are making it less enjoyable to frequent. I literally have to sift through the arguments to get the to news. I'm not going to be posting here much anymore which is frustrating as it was the best place for Liverpool debate imo, above RAWK & Thisisanfield etc.

~Rebel~

JimiTime wrote: »

Do you think Liverpool will win the league in the next 5 years? Do you think Rafa is the man to make you dominant again? Its a genuine question!

WILL win the league is a tough one to ask as noone can really answer that with any degree of knowledge. 'Can they' is a better one.

I would be utterly depressed and dismayed if Liverpool didn't mount a serious, genuine, close run title fight in the next 5 years. Will they win or not obviously depends on the exact circumstances at the time, but its about being right there at the finish line like Chelsea were last season. We're not there yet, but i think its safe to say we have the best group of players we've had for a long time, and despite what people have said about his bad buys, that is down to Rafa. One can only hope that with the really necessary last piece, those players to bring the real attacking Teeth along with Gerrard and Torres, that a natural style shift would occur. Its not as easy to play nice gung ho football with Pennant and Kewell as it is with Ronaldo and Hleb (I know ye'll say 'but he signed them', yes, he did but this is about the future not the past, where we move on to). Rafa is obsessed with strengths and weakness's, we all know that. One would hope that if our teams strengths shifted from Solid controlling midfield to Solid midfield to support a quick deadly attack, that this is what he would favour. Im still optimistic given the style of some of the players he's looked at (Malouda, Alves, Simao, Villa, Aguero) as well as those youthes he's pilferred (Gerardo Bruno, Pacheco, Pourie, Nemeth) that this is a definate realistic possibility.

Time will tell.

kryogen

i dunno, i think you can give your answer as an opnion, i mean we all know we cant see the future but we can make educated guesses on things, gathering information such as past tendancys and current situations to make a decent guess at whether or not we think rafa can win the prem, it doesnt make it gospel but i dont see how you see it as a question that cant be answered. in my opinion based on rafas history in the league, his approach to games and his dealings in the transfer market among other things i wouldnt feel very convinced he could lead the team to a league title, especially considering he isnt actually gaining ground on the other 3 teams, i.e. head to heads, regardless of excuses the facts are he is often on the losing end when it come to facing the other big teams, and im pretty sure he has never beaten united in the league yet, that means he has to make up the points dropped, and they have been alot over the past 3 years v the big clubs against the smaller clubs like wigan and reading but he seems inable to consistently set his team to kill off these teams and they often take points from the pool aswell

Tusky

kryogen wrote: »

i dunno, i think you can give your answer as an opnion, i mean we all know we cant see the future but we can make educated guesses on things, gathering information such as past tendancys and current situations to make a decent guess at whether or not we think rafa can win the prem, it doesnt make it gospel but i dont see how you see it as a question that cant be answered. in my opinion based on rafas history in the league, his approach to games and his dealings in the transfer market among other things i wouldnt feel very convinced he could lead the team to a league title, especially considering he isnt actually gaining ground on the other 3 teams, i.e. head to heads, regardless of excuses the facts are he is often on the losing end when it come to facing the other big teams, and im pretty sure he has never beaten united in the league yet, that means he has to make up the points dropped, and they have been alot over the past 3 years v the big clubs against the smaller clubs like wigan and reading but he seems inable to consistently set his team to kill off these teams and they often take points from the pool aswell

Your post only has one full stop. Rafa won the league in Spain, theres no reason why he cant do it again. Will he win the premiership with Liverpool ? I dont know. Is it possible ? yes.

JimiTime

Tusky wrote: »

Well about 50% of posts on each page seems to be united fans telling us how **** Liverpool are and how the players and the manager arent good enough. Ive no problem with this but it goes on and on and on and it gets boring. For some reason it seems to have gotten much worse over the last 2 months. Again, Ive no problem having intelligent informed debates with opposing fans but all this 'Liverpool are ****' talk isnt really worth debating.

If you read some of my posts on the last couple of pages, I certainly haven't been singing the clubs praises so that point about 'lets just say how great our club is' isn't relevant.

By the way, I didnt mean to single you out. I don't know if you post on this thread regularly but your post was just the tip of the iceberg and my reply was in relation to 100s of posts from the last couple of months so apologies if you felt I was singling you out.

sorry, you quoted my post so i thought it was directed at me. Sorry to jump the gun. I don't post here much at all, so i probably should have read a bit more. ye live and learn.

I'm not going to answer that because I think its an absolutely ridiculous question. No one knows what will happen in 5 years time. 5 years ago Chelsea hadn't won the premiership and were only a shadow of what they are now. Liverpool might be struggling in mid-table in 5 years or they might have won the treble. I dont have a crystal ball and neither do you. Who knows what players will even be at Liverpool in 5 years?!??!

I know what you and others are saying about the 5 year thing, however, I'm basing my analysis on the current setup. Benitez being the main man etc etc. TBH, I could see Man City being a contender if Sven stays around, and he gets funds. Benitez's brand of football is just too negative to ever dominate IMO. Obviously the future is merely conjecture, an like another poster said, its part of what we love. The not knowing whats around the corner. Obviously any answer is highly speculative. I don't think Sam Allardyce will do it for Newcastle neither. That is a bit more obvious IMO, but its still speculation, but not without foundation.

I like Rafa but question his decisions from time to time. He has got a great track record and we have won some big trophy's under him so I am willing to give him 1 or 2 more seasons to see what happens. Will he make us dominant again ? Ive no idea.

Fair enough, I'm just saying, based on what i've seen, I don't think he will.

---

Just one final point. This is one of the most active threads on boards.ie. Theres lots and lots of Liverpool fans who love the club that post on this thread. The thread used to be about rationally discussing the team, matches, players - complimenting them or giving opinions on how they weren't good enough. There would be occasional debates with other fans, which is fine and good because you can obviously sometimes see your own team through rose tinted glasses. I hope you can appreciate, that over the last couple months, the thread seems to be 90% arguments. There are fans out there that will post and you can have an informed rational debate with but all the 'Liverpool are ****' poss are clogging up the thread and are making it less enjoyable to frequent. I'm not going to be posting here much anymore which is frustrating as it was the best place for Liverpool debate imo, above RAWK & Thisisanfield etc.

well that is a shame, I didn't realise that was the case, and feel bad now for snapping in ignorance:o. There's nothing worse than arguing with fanatical muppets.

DSB

To be fair, if it had been United that fell apart I'm sure the Liverpool fans would be as quick to point out why, as would I. You can come over to the Villa thread and point out our faults too if you want, but I suspect you don't give a **** about us, despite us only being 2 points behind.

Tusky

JimiTime wrote: »

I know what you and others are saying about the 5 year thing, however, I'm basing my analysis on the current setup. Benitez being the main man etc etc. TBH, I could see Man City being a contender if Sven stays around, and he gets funds. Benitez's brand of football is just too negative to ever dominate IMO. Obviously the future is merely conjecture, an like another poster said, its part of what we love. The not knowing whats around the corner. Obviously any answer is highly speculative. I don't think Sam Allardyce will do it for Newcastle neither. That is a bit more obvious IMO, but its still speculation, but not without foundation.

Two things.

1) Look at the players Benitez has bought in the last 3 years. Reina, Agger, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Alonso, Babel, Torres. They are his best purchases and thats from 3 years. If he continues in that vain for the next FIVE years I'm sure the Liverpool side will be considerably stronger than it is now.

2) If Liverpool continue playing as they are now they probably wont win the title in the next five years. But consider this : Its easier to get a poor team to defend well than to get them to attack. I think Rafa inherited a poor Liverpool team and intended to build from the back. To get the team to defend from the front and to work as a unit. It was a defensive style but It won him the champions league. Gradually, slowly, and maybe a bit too slowly for my liking, the team is becoming more attacking. I think Benitez would ultimately like the team to be ultra solid defensively, work as a unit but also to be lethal in attack. So maybe not as free flowing or as entertaining as Arsenal, but more attack minded and entertaining than the team is now.

Look at his purchases during the summer. Torres, Babel, Benayoun, Lucas, Voronin. They are all attacking players so he obviously knows we have to improve in that department. For that reason I think its foolish to predict what will happen in 5 years. The team may be unrecognizable to the current set-up and anyone who watches Liverpool regularly will tell you, the style is changing and they are becoming more attacking, so in 5 years - who knows.

Also, just to reiterate my point about Liverpool becoming more attacking.

Lpool 4 - 0 Toulouse
Lpool 6 - 0 Derby
Lpool 3 - 0 Newcastle
Lpool 4 - 0 Porto
Lpool 8 - 0 Besiktas
Lpool 4 - 0 Bolton
Lpool 4 - 0 Marseille
Lpool 4 - 1 Portsmouth

Now obviously everything hasnt ticked this season but we certainly werent hammering as many teams last season as we have this season. I think we had about two 4-0 wins last season in total...!

To be fair, if it had been United that fell apart I'm sure the Liverpool fans would be as quick to point out why, as would I. You can come over to the Villa thread and point out our faults too if you want, but I suspect you don't give a **** about us, despite us only being 2 points behind.

Well I suppose thats a fair enough point. I have posted in the utd thread lots of times, both positive & negative comments. I rate lots of utds players and have commented positively on performances, players & goals as well as critizing players and performances. All we seem to get is constantly negativity which leads to all the Liverpool fans defending their team which in turns leads to boring constant arguments.

~Rebel~

For another small indicator of Tusky's last post (which i largely agree with, and kind of hinted at with my last post), is the way Momo Sissoko's job has changed.

He spent 2 years as Mr 'tackle and give it to someone else'. Even he this year has obviously been told to actually try and get forward far more. Unfortunately he's just not been able, but just the fact that he's been asked to get more involved in the attacking is an indication that the whole team is doing the same. Same can be said for Mascherano. He's started venturing forward more then ever himself as well, though with far less embaressing consequences then Momo's exploits.