Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

spockety

There are a lot of people saying that we are in a bad position because of our inability to get results against the 'lesser' teams in the Premier League, and that we really should be able to thrash them like Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea do.

Well, this is the table that shows how the "top 4" have fared against everyone but each other so far this season. Arsenal, Chelsea, and Utd have played one more match than Liverpool, so I have discounted their result against West Ham as that is the game Liverpool have in hand, to even it up to 17 matches a piece.

Points
ARSENAL 42
UTD 41
CHELSEA 40
LIVERPOOL 38

I think this shows that is IS the big matches that are making the difference. The difference in quality between Liverpool and the other squads is shown up not against the rest of the league, but in the head to heads. So all told, based on the performance of the other 3 top teams, the only thing Liverpool fans need to be disappointed about in terms of keeping chase for the title this season are the results against Arsenal, Man Utd., and Chelsea.

~Rebel~

spockety wrote: »

There are a lot of people saying that we are in a bad position because of our inability to get results against the 'lesser' teams in the Premier League, and that we really should be able to thrash them like Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea do.

Well, this is the table that shows how the "top 4" have fared against everyone but each other so far this season. Arsenal, Chelsea, and Utd have played one more match than Liverpool, so I have discounted their result against West Ham as that is the game Liverpool have in hand, to even it up to 17 matches a piece.

Points
ARSENAL 42
UTD 41
CHELSEA 40
LIVERPOOL 38

I think this shows that is IS the big matches that are making the difference. The difference in quality between Liverpool and the other squads is shown up not against the rest of the league, but in the head to heads. So all told, based on the performance of the other 3 top teams, the only thing Liverpool fans need to be disappointed about in terms of keeping chase for the title this season are the results against Arsenal, Man Utd., and Chelsea.

Interesting stat Spockety, really didn't realise it would pan out like that. Good find.

kida

what it really means is that Pool can't afford to slip up against weaker teams as they cannot beat the big boys - the others can afford the odd slip up

spockety

I disagree, I think it shows that what Liverpool really need to do is to get a squad together that is strong enough to go into matches against Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea, expecting to get 3 points. If you do that, then you can also assume that such a strong squad would also fare better and have fewer slip ups against lesser opposition.

machiavellianme

spockety wrote: »

If you do that, then you can also assume that such a strong squad would also fare better and have fewer slip ups against lesser opposition.

Sure, but thats assuming the strong squad gets played against weaker opposition. Knowing Rafa, he could rotate in some reserves or youths expecting big things against a team of bruisers fighting a relegation battle.

~Rebel~

machiavellianme wrote: »

Sure, but thats assuming the strong squad gets played against weaker opposition. Knowing Rafa, he could rotate in some reserves or youths expecting big things against a team of bruisers fighting a relegation battle.

But the plus of moving to stronger versions of those already there is that the current first tier drop to backup, while the current backup (the names we're disappointed to see on the teamsheet) get sold.

spockety

machiavellianme wrote: »

Sure, but thats assuming the strong squad gets played against weaker opposition. Knowing Rafa, he could rotate in some reserves or youths expecting big things against a team of bruisers fighting a relegation battle.

Eh, what are you talking about? Why would he bring in reserves or youth team members for a Premier League match instead of playing members of the strong squad that is created?

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

There are a lot of people saying that we are in a bad position because of our inability to get results against the 'lesser' teams in the Premier League, and that we really should be able to thrash them like Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea do.

Well, this is the table that shows how the "top 4" have fared against everyone but each other so far this season. Arsenal, Chelsea, and Utd have played one more match than Liverpool, so I have discounted their result against West Ham as that is the game Liverpool have in hand, to even it up to 17 matches a piece.

Points
ARSENAL 42
UTD 41
CHELSEA 40
LIVERPOOL 38

I think this shows that is IS the big matches that are making the difference. The difference in quality between Liverpool and the other squads is shown up not against the rest of the league, but in the head to heads. So all told, based on the performance of the other 3 top teams, the only thing Liverpool fans need to be disappointed about in terms of keeping chase for the title this season are the results against Arsenal, Man Utd., and Chelsea.

So we're bottom of that AND we have a poor record among te top 4.Can;t see how that can be spun to be a good thing,

Lex Luthor

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Probably could but you need a goal scoring midfielder in order to be successful. Most championship winning teams in recent years have either had 2 strikers that score a stupid amount of goals or one high scoring striker and a midfielder that gets 15+ goals or so.

I think we have that already in Torres & Gerrard, but it still doesn't seem enough.

I would rather for teh time being see SG put out wide right and Lucas in CM as I think SG offers more out wide right than already at the club. I think if Rafa had got Heinze he would have played the LB role and we would have seen Aurelio out LM and Kewell would have been left to rot. Rafa is just using Kewell as he seems to think there is nothing else better at the club at LM which is probably right.

Lex Luthor

spockety wrote: »

There are a lot of people saying that we are in a bad position because of our inability to get results against the 'lesser' teams in the Premier League, and that we really should be able to thrash them like Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea do.

Well, this is the table that shows how the "top 4" have fared against everyone but each other so far this season. Arsenal, Chelsea, and Utd have played one more match than Liverpool, so I have discounted their result against West Ham as that is the game Liverpool have in hand, to even it up to 17 matches a piece.

Points
ARSENAL 42
UTD 41
CHELSEA 40
LIVERPOOL 38

I think this shows that is IS the big matches that are making the difference. The difference in quality between Liverpool and the other squads is shown up not against the rest of the league, but in the head to heads. So all told, based on the performance of the other 3 top teams, the only thing Liverpool fans need to be disappointed about in terms of keeping chase for the title this season are the results against Arsenal, Man Utd., and Chelsea.

there was something on Sky Sports the morning of the Liv v Man U match about the head to heads of the 4 so called big teams and historically over the past 5 seasons, Liverpool have been significantly worse off than the other 3.

spockety

Stekelly wrote: »

So we're bottom of that AND we have a poor record among te top 4.Can;t see how that can be spun to be a good thing,

If (and at this rate, it's probably a big IF :P ) you imagine Liverpool winning the game in hand against West Ham, and you also count the other teams games against West Ham, both Liverpool and United are on 41 points from the 'non top 4' matches.

Spud83

spockety wrote: »

If (and at this rate, it's probably a big IF :P ) you imagine Liverpool winning the game in hand against West Ham, and you also count the other teams games against West Ham, both Liverpool and United are on 41 points from the 'non top 4' matches.

Utd aren't leading the league why do you care about that.

spockety

Because United are the current champions, and like it or not they are also favourites to win the league this year. (ref: www.paddypower.com)

Who do you support by the way?

Spud83

spockety wrote: »

Because United are the current champions, and like it or not they are also favourites to win the league this year. (ref: www.paddypower.com)

Who do you support by the way?

I though it was obvious. Man Utd

ButcherOfNog

We need REAL quality out wide, thats what we need.

sweetie

zing wrote: »

Fulham lining up a £3m offer for Guthrie:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/04/roy-hodgson-eyes-3m-danny-guthrie-100252-20313215/

He's got great potential and has done well at the clubs he's gone on loan to. Whether or not he can step up that extra level remains to be seen.

offer kuyt and guthrie for anelka

Mr Alan

i'd go with that

Thanx 4 The Fish

throw in Voronin too, I should hope that would make them think.

redzerdrog

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

throw in Voronin too, I should hope that would make them think.

they might refuse it then:p

el rabitos

guthrie, voronin and kuyt....why would bolton want 3 midfielders?

~Rebel~

And then (after we buy proper cover for CB) offer Crouch, riise and Hypia +5mill to Spurs for berbatov

Brethitmanhart

Because Kuyt and Voronin are not midfielders, they are forwards.

I would not like LFC to go for Anelka, he is too lazy...Out of prem strikers I would like Robbie Keane but I think Diego Milito would be great....

I think Kuyt has been getting unfair stick, he is a good player, I don't think Voronin is upto it tho'....he was bought in January on pre contract before the new Owners came in so it's understandable getting him in on a free....if we were to make money off him it would be great business.

I think we have a very strong squad with just a small few areas needing improvement...they are centreback cover, Striker and Right Mid..

Kewell is a great player, and Riise is also a good LM/LB, infact our left side is pretty good(Babel is quality).
Our CM is fantastic. Right Mid, Benayouns ok, as is Pennant but we need better.

Upfront another world class forward to play with Torres, Kuyt and Crouch would be class.

Babel is an option as he is a striker...if he was to be put there then a new left mid would be needed.

el rabitos

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Because Kuyt and Voronin are not midfielders, they are forwards.

tell them

yabadabado

id say ye need 2 wingers,a Lb and a top striker to play wit torres.i dont rate riise or kewell i think Rafa only plays them cos they r the best of wots at the club

Mr Alan

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Riise is also a good LM/LB

I was taking ya seriously, up until ya said that

Brethitmanhart

I had to express my respect for Riise because of the unfair stick he has been getting.
He is having a bad patch but is still still a good player.

Mr Alan

bad patches dont last two years mate

Brethitmanhart

He hasn't been bad for two years, Only this season...

Melion

He was very bad last year but has been shocking this season

sweetie

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Because Kuyt and Voronin are not midfielders, they are forwards.

I would not like LFC to go for Anelka, he is too lazy...Out of prem strikers I would like Robbie Keane but I think Diego Milito would be great....

he scores goals in the premiership for middlin' teams, kuyt and voronin can't for a good team. I'd take robbie in a heartbeat too. Baffles me how there isn't more interest in hm. He has outscored berbatov at spurs and probably creates more too. Is it cos he's not a typical target man he doesn't get the kudos? Surely he's worth at least 25 mill if berbatov is worth 35? I'd say spurs would sell for less though :rolleyes:

astrofool

I'd wonder what wages Voronin is on? Usually players signed on a bosman end up costing as much as the transfer fee via higher wages. If you want to sell him, most of the transfer may go on his signing on fee (unless he requests the transfer).

Mr Alan

sweetie wrote: »

he scores goals in the premiership for middlin' teams, kuyt and voronin can't for a good team. I'd take robbie in a heartbeat too. Baffles me how there isn't more interest in hm. He has outscored berbatov at spurs and probably creates more too. Is it cos he's not a typical target man he doesn't get the kudos? Surely he's worth at least 25 mill if berbatov is worth 35? I'd say spurs would sell for less though :rolleyes:

some players, especially for london clubs, are hyped to ****. Berbatov is a good example of this.... hoe many goals did he get last year? about 10?

if i remember, up until a few weeks ago, him and kuyt had played the same amount of games, and scored the same amount of goals.

mystifying....although i will admit Berba has a bit of class about him, that kuyt lacks. but the same could be said for Kuyts superior work ethic.

zing

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Kewell is a great player, and Riise is also a good LM/LB, infact our left side is pretty good(Babel is quality).
Our CM is fantastic. Right Mid, Benayouns ok, as is Pennant but we need better.

tbh with the exception of Babel I see the left very much like you (and I) see the right - we need better.

Kewell was a great player but I don't think you could call him great at present. Since he's come back from injury he's done quiet well and I've been willing and hoping that he'd show us just a little glimpse of what he was once capable of. Whatever about the skill/ability he's lost his pace and I'm not sure he'll ever get that back. I still rate him as probably our best winger at present though which is a sad indictment of the rest of them. Babel probably would get that honour if he could cross the ball consistently.

You're right about Risse - he's a good player - but only a good player. For now him & Arbeloa do a decent job at LB but long term we need better. Insua looks like he could be a great player and start to feature regularly in that role in another year or so - still only 18/19 though.

machiavellianme

Why do people keep harping on about Kuyt's work ethic? Is there a new column on the League table with a work ethic stat? No? Well then, it counts for nothing. Lots of players have big work rates but it doesnt make them a good player or score goals on its own. You need to have two key things to work as a striker: skill and ability to score goals. Kuyt doesnt show much of either.

mike65

Provisional squad for Luton

Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Agger, Riise, Hobbs, Sissoko, Mascherano, Alonso, Kewell, Babel, Lucas, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Torres, Benayoun, Pennant, Itandje

---

Itandje
Finnan-Hobbs-Hyypia-Riise
Pennant--Alonso-Masch-Kewell

---

Crouch--Babel

Hopefully Torres is not part of the final 16.

Mike.

Mr Alan

Almost want Torres to play... if we lose and he doesnt play, all the clowns will be calling for Rafas head again.

(Mirror newspaper today, among the reasons why Rafa might get the sack: constantly resting Torres?! sorry?!?!!?!?)

Lex Luthor

No thanks to Anelka & Berbatov.

Wouldn't say no to Keane though.

Insua is gonna be a super LB. Reminds me of Agger who is very comfortable on the ball and loves to go forward.

If Kuyt was allowed to play up front with Torres then he would probably score nearly as many as the Spaniard. Our wingers are brutal. Yossi is not a winger....great footballer but not a winger. Would be better off playing in SG position and playing SG out wide right. Riise offers nothing except he will chase the ball if its lost but I rather Aurelio as he can go past players and is a better crosser and can offer alternatives on set pieces.

I think Crouch needs to be used more often. He is proven.

PHB

spockety wrote: »

Points
ARSENAL 42
UTD 41
CHELSEA 40
LIVERPOOL 38

That's a really interesting table. Fergie has been saying this year since the start of the season that he thinks this season will be decided on the head to heads between the top 4s.

---

Very few rumours coming out of Liverpool about who they might be buying. Infact, I'm really struggling to think of one link in the past week or two about Liverpool and a player. Weirdness.

Tusky

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

I think Kuyt has been getting unfair stick, he is a good player, I don't think Voronin is upto it tho'....he was bought in January on pre contract before the new Owners came in so it's understandable getting him in on a free....if we were to make money off him it would be great business.

Hes been with the club for a season & a half. Thats a good enough period to judge a player I think.

Last year - 28 starts, 9 sub : 37 apperances - 13 goals & 4 assists.
This years - 13 starts, 5 sub : 18 apperances - 5 goals(2 pens) & 1 assist.

Thats just not good enough. In 17 apperances in the premier league this season he has scored once from open play...this is our supposed 2nd best striker in a team that is supposed to be challenging for the title ? I like the guy, great attitude, best work rate I have ever seen & seems really down to earth but he really needs to start banging in goals at an amazing rate to save himself.

I dont think hes clinical enough to be a CF & I dont think hes skillful or fast enough to be a support striker. To put things into context, Torres has scored the same amount of goals as Kuyt from open play in his first 4 months at the club, as Kuyt has in the last season & a half.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

That's a really interesting table. Fergie has been saying this year since the start of the season that he thinks this season will be decided on the head to heads between the top 4s.

---

Very few rumours coming out of Liverpool about who they might be buying. Infact, I'm really struggling to think of one link in the past week or two about Liverpool and a player. Weirdness.

Usually that way with Liverpool in fairness. especially in the past. Maybe Parry is finally conducting business properly. i wont hold my breath though. we were strongly linked with Bridge, but the club was fairly quick to deny that.

Table makes interesting reading alright..... so all we have to do is beat Chelsea,Utd and Arsenal away hey!? easy enough

sweetie

Mr Alan wrote: »

Table makes interesting reading alright..... so all we have to do is beat Chelsea,Utd and Arsenal away hey!? easy enough

only if we treat them like cup games...:p

Mr Alan

absolutely

jesus_thats_gre

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Utd aren't leading the league why do you care about that.

Are you actually incapable of understanding the point of the stat he is presenting? There was me actually answering questions to your posts. Pointless exercise tbh.

cson

Ok question time for you Pool fans;

Can you see the club winning the Premiership within the next three years?

Mr Alan

Yes.

d22ontour

What's with all the timetravel questions ? 5 years. 3 years , ffs who can answer that tbh.I can say they won't win it in the next 6 months imo but that's as far as i will stretch.Football is unpredictable from game to game hence the love of the game , nevermind 3/5 year timeframes , eh ?

Mr Alan

even with the six months thing.....

win our game in hand.....9 points behind the leaders.....still to play Chelsea,Utd and Arsenal..... Stranger things have happened!

PHB

I'd love it, just love it....

cson

d22ontour wrote: »

What's with all the timetravel questions ? 5 years. 3 years , ffs who can answer that tbh.I can say they won't win it in the next 6 months imo but that's as far as i will stretch.Football is unpredictable from game to game hence the love of the game , nevermind 3/5 year timeframes , eh ?

Do you think Benitez will be the man to do it?

Mr Alan

cson wrote: »

Do you think Benitez will be the man to do it?

rafa is the man. FACT.