Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

how much money do they owe?

how much money do we owe?

maybe we should ask Chelsea for the gate reciepts when we play at Stamford Bridge? Help clear some of our debt?!

**** off Luton.

dc69

Mr Alan wrote: »

how much money do they owe?

how much money do we owe?

maybe we should ask Chelsea for the gate reciepts when we play at Stamford Bridge? Help clear some of our debt?!

**** off Luton.

thats just stupid reaction,they only asked for the gate receipts,prob would amount to half gerrards weekly salary.It would have been a nice gesture,but they didnt want to.end of

think of it this way,if luton cand find a buyer for their club by monday they are ****ed,we could be the last team to play them before they fall off the edge of the earth.

zing

dc69 wrote: »

they only asked for the gate receipts

Lets just clarify something here before we have another few pages on the topic. They are rumoured to have asked for our share of the gate receipts and we are rumoured to have turned down that request. So at the moment it's all idle speculation and not worth continuing the discussion.

Jazzy

just watching Utd today (even tho its still 0-0) they are able to use the pitch and space far more effectively then pool. their width allows them to find openings which other teams dont... hence why i think they are able to sneak goals where liverpool cant (all our draws vs all their 1-0's 2-1's etc.)

Jazzy

and utd have just scored cos of doing exactly wat i said.

theres the difference lads. thats the kind of play and quality we need to win the league

zing

Careful there Jazzy - you'll have all the utd heads back in here saying told you so if you keep praising their style of play

Peyton Manning

Luton showed a lot of humility in asking for the money, but thenlost any respect by making it public that Liverpool refused - very bad taste if you ask me. Liverpool had no obligation to give them the money which Im sure they need for the new stadium.

~Rebel~

Barcelona V Mallorca playing on Skysports 1 now, decent chance to get a look at Arango. Only been watching for a sec but commentators already mentioned that he's playing much deeper tonight then they'd like.

Ibagaza has already looked good though

machiavellianme

Nah the guy we need from that game is Giovani dos Santos Ramírez. He's do as a nice replacement for Pennant.

Arango needs to show a lot more if he's to offer anything over our current lot

PHB

Apparently he's up for sale, with United Chelsea and Spurs interested.

Daemonic

If Luton wanted to make more money from the tie they should have switched it to Anfield, they're percentage of the gate from an anfield game would have been more than the total gate from a home game. Although if they're in that much trouble its not gonna save them either way.

Attractive Nun

PHB wrote: »

Apparently he's up for sale, with United Chelsea and Spurs interested.

Dos Santos? Really? That would be a great signing for Liverpool.

machiavellianme

PHB wrote: »

Apparently he's up for sale, with United Chelsea and Spurs interested.

Who Giovani? Great player, only 18 and getting into the FC Barcelona side fairly regularly. Worth his place on any team. Better work rate than Kuyt (probably due to him being a youngster trying to make a name) but he's infinitely more creative. Pool should stick in a cheeky bid if funds permit.

PHB

Well I think the issue is that how likely is he to establish a first team spot, with Messi and the higher rated Bojan in front of him? That's not to mention the only emerging Iniesta, and of course Ronaldinho and Henry there too.

Zapp Brannigan

I thought Giovanni was rated higher than Bojan. Certainly any Barca game I've seen Dos Santos has always come on before Bojan?

Stky10

PHB wrote: »

Well I think the issue is that how likely is he to establish a first team spot, with Messi and the higher rated Bojan in front of him? That's not to mention the only emerging Iniesta, and of course Ronaldinho and Henry there too.

I think Ronaldinho will be moved on in the summer. And I can't see Henry staying too long either the way things have been going for him.

The prospect of Giovanni moving to the UK is pretty slim though. Its just his new agent Zahavi trying to get as much blood from a stone as possible by touting him about, when he's already made it clear his first choice is to stay with Barca cos he's been there for years.

I think Barca will introduce Bojan pretty slowly. They won't want another Michael Owen injury scenario with such a good prospect. Has he even turned 17 yet?

spockety

Is this still a Liverpool Rumours and General Discussion thread?

I always assumed the "General Discussion" bit was tied to the "Liverpool" bit.

:rolleyes:

mike65

The thread developes organically.

Mike.

Stky10

Another youth defender signed

http://liverpoolfc.co.za/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1126051643/m/1401018274

NotWormBoy

Same article... says Juve are keen on getting Momo on loan until the end of the season... should we do it, or would that just put them off actually buying him?

dc69

zing wrote: »

Lets just clarify something here before we have another few pages on the topic. They are rumoured to have asked for our share of the gate receipts and we are rumoured to have turned down that request. So at the moment it's all idle speculation and not worth continuing the discussion.

since when has this forum become so politically correct,relax man,if the rumours are true its bent and i suspect they are true as the LUTON MANAGER TALKED ABOUT IT AND SAID IT

“They probably said, ‘We have to pay players £100,000 a week. You must be joking, otherwise we will be like you,’ ” Kevin Blackwell, the Luton manager, said. “You just have to accept it. There are people in life who have got a Rolls-Royce while some people have a Mini. We are Mini drivers.”

The match will be televised live, earning each club £150,000, and Kenilworth Road will be full to its 10,000 capacity. Of the gate money, 45 per cent goes to each club and 10 per cent to a Football Association pool, so Luton and Liverpool stand to receive about £100,000 each from ticket sales. The winning club earns £40,000 in prize-money but Liverpool will not give their gate receipts or any other gesture"

tibor

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has told friends he thinks he will leave the club in the summer, with Jurgen Klinsmann his possible replacement (Express).

mike65

No attributable quotes in that article juts "a friend" speaking.

That said I do think we are being softened up for his likely exit in the summer.

Mike.

PHB

Well if the board have told him that he won't be getting significant money in the summer, it'll be a pretty similar situation to Valencia.

mike65

If that the case then he will be gone, after all you don't sanction a big spend for a manager who will be gone. (unless you are Spurs!)

Mike.

PHB

Unless you are Spurs could be most peoples signature on here
I can't see him sticking around unless he gets the funds. That said, I think he'd be nuts to move on unless he gets a decent offer. Barca and Real look pretty set, Milan and Inter look pretty set, Ranieri looks relatively safe, who would he go to? That said, I suppose by the end of the season one of those managers will be fired, but with Mourinho also waiting in the wings, he might find it difficult and might have to go to another Valencia stlye club.

mike65

Spain national job, when they fail yet again this summer?

Mike.

DeadSkin

The-Rigger, I think you missed my point on the overeaction, you posted, "or should they lose, did they want that too?"

Look we all have our opinions on this, compare it to goats and homeless etc, but as someone posted earlier it's just bad PR.


If this happened before the yanks takeover, would Liverpool have waivered the gate receipts?

On the Rafa situation, I think we are in for a lot more speculation over the coming weeks

Jesus Wept

DeadSkin wrote: »

The-Rigger, I think you missed my point on the overeaction, you posted, "or should they lose, did they want that too?"

Look we all have our opinions on this, compare it to goats and homeless etc, but as someone posted earlier it's just bad PR.


If this happened before the yanks takeover, would Liverpool have waivered the gate receipts?

On the Rafa situation, I think we are in for a lot more speculation over the coming weeks

Fair enough, I guess it's a difference of opinion.
I don't see it as bad PR. I see it as giving up £100,000/$200,000 without good cause.

If Luton wanted a minutes silence for some local youth who had died and Liverpool declined, that would be bad, nay terrible PR.

This is entirely different.

Guy:Incognito

Neil Warnock chipping in with hi sopinion again (who'da thunk it eh :rolleyes:) and saying it's a disgrace not to give the gate money. The man is an arse. He's incapable of an unbiased opinion becasue he fells hard done by for Rafa fielding a weakened team last season. If Diouf had never been born, then Neil Warnock would be my most hated figure in football.

Is there a biger media whore in the game? The man loves the sound of his own voice. If Goals on Sunday gave out hat-trick balls , Addidas stock would go through the roof because of him alone. I really wish relegation on any teams he manages. Was delighted when Sheff Utd went down last season, especially when he tried to blame Rafa, conveniently forgetting they were 10 points clear of the relegation places at one stage.

d22ontour

The-Rigger wrote: »

If Luton wanted a minutes silence for some local youth who had died and Liverpool declined, that would be bad, nay terrible PR.

This is entirely different.

That is about right.Luton dug their own hole , it's their problem to get out of it.

DSB

Might be a good thing if Rafa leaves really. Liverpool definitely need something fresh at the club. Maybe its 3 or 4 top class players. Or maybe a manager with a different approach to football and picking the team might be just what is needed. So far Benitez has shown no real signs that he has what it takes to get Liverpool up there.

PHB

Well if you just take it from a fresh point of view:
Ignore what Rafa has done in the past, assume Liverpool come a safe 3rd/4th in the league and get to the semis or something in the CL, and the season is over.
At that point, the owners decide they want to win the league, and say they'll committ to 60 million pounds worth of spending.

In terms of how the owners are thinking, Is Rafa the man to spend 60 million to make the team work? Or should the owners look elsewhere, someone like Mourinho, or Lippi, or whoever. They can attract pretty much any manager in the world with the squad Liverpool have and that promise of cash, they could get almost anyone.
I figure that's what the owners are thinking, and I think they are looking for Rafa to show that he can use the money well. Which I think means he has to show that he can put together a decent run from here on out, and also that Torres and Babel work out(which I think we all think they will)

yabadabado

if Rafa was to go in the summer who wud pool fans wanna see come in.alot of rumours about klinsmann ,is he up to it i thought he just got fairly lucky wit germany

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Well if you just take it from a fresh point of view:
Ignore what Rafa has done in the past, assume Liverpool come a safe 3rd/4th in the league and get to the semis or something in the CL, and the season is over.
At that point, the owners decide they want to win the league, and say they'll committ to 60 million pounds worth of spending.

In terms of how the owners are thinking, Is Rafa the man to spend 60 million to make the team work? Or should the owners look elsewhere, someone like Mourinho, or Lippi, or whoever. They can attract pretty much any manager in the world with the squad Liverpool have and that promise of cash, they could get almost anyone.
I figure that's what the owners are thinking, and I think they are looking for Rafa to show that he can use the money well. Which I think means he has to show that he can put together a decent run from here on out, and also that Torres and Babel work out(which I think we all think they will)

Thats a fair enough assessment I feel. The owners did say when they took over that they didn't expect success immediately and that it would be a gradual thing. i.e they didn't expect Rafa to win the premiership this year. Given the squad that Rafa has now, if he was given considerable backing, I have full faith that he will buy well.

If you look at Rafas buys, generally, the dubious ones are the cheaper ones. The ones that have been pricey have generally worked out. Torres, Alonso, Babel(tbc), Mascherano(tbc). With Kuyt being the possible exception. If he was given, say, 60m over the next couple of seasons (which I would presume would break down something like this - Mascherano 10m*, striker 20m, winger 15m, winger 10m, CB 5m) I would have a lot of faith in him picking the right players.

*Mascherano fee is widely rumored to be 17m including wages.

PHB

Yeh, when he spends money, he normally gets it right.

I think the whole Mascherano issue is really causing a lot of tension. First off, I don't think his transfer fee is 17 mil + wages, cause if he was that cheap, there's no way the owners wouldn't want him. It wouldn't even make business sense.

Most people on this board feel that CB cover is needed, maybe LB cover, two wingers and a striker. I would imagine the owners feel this way too, especially if they are getting advice from some footballing people (which I assume they are)
If Rafa has been told he has 50 million to spend, and he says he wants to spend 10-17 million of it on Mascherano, the owners are probably looking at that and saying, 'what the **** is he trying to do?'
Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, and Sissoko looks like a pretty decent central midfield situation, and spending another 10-17 million on Mascherano is somewhat wasteful considering the situation in the other areas. As such, the owners are questioning whether or not he is the man to bring the club forward.

Also I think there is a chance that perhaps Rafa, after being told for so long that investment was coming, is somewhat unrealistic. He wants to be able to buy Mascherano, and then still buy the other players he needs. The comments coming from the owners are basically saying that he's being a bit childish about the whole situation, so this theory would certainly fit in with that.

That said, this is all wide speculation

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Yeh, when he spends money, he normally gets it right.

I think the whole Mascherano issue is really causing a lot of tension. First off, I don't think his transfer fee is 17 mil + wages, cause if he was that cheap, there's no way the owners wouldn't want him. It wouldn't even make business sense.

Most people on this board feel that CB cover is needed, maybe LB cover, two wingers and a striker. I would imagine the owners feel this way too, especially if they are getting advice from some footballing people (which I assume they are)
If Rafa has been told he has 50 million to spend, and he says he wants to spend 10-17 million of it on Mascherano, the owners are probably looking at that and saying, 'what the **** is he trying to do?'
Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, and Sissoko looks like a pretty decent central midfield situation, and spending another 10-17 million on Mascherano is somewhat wasteful considering the situation in the other areas. As such, the owners are questioning whether or not he is the man to bring the club forward.

Also I think there is a chance that perhaps Rafa, after being told for so long that investment was coming, is somewhat unrealistic. He wants to be able to buy Mascherano, and then still buy the other players he needs. The comments coming from the owners are basically saying that he's being a bit childish about the whole situation, so this theory would certainly fit in with that.

That said, this is all wide speculation

I think the best thing to do in regards to defense and I feel Rafa has this in mind as well, is to buy a CB that can play LB i.e Heinze or someone of that ilk. That way, they will get more game time and we don't have to buy two players. In regards to Mascherano, obviously hes going to be expensive, it could be 10m or it could be 17m (both I feel are good value) and its not an area that we are weak in. If funds are tight, that we should probably spend in other areas.

However, a club like Liverpool with the recent takeover, should be able to buy Mascherano and also invest in other areas. Hes 23, hes an international for one of the best countrys in football, hes settled here, he has been one of our best players...ok, its not a position we are weak in, but its too good an opportunity to let pass. We should be able to fund him with the sale of other players.

-Caron 8m
-Sissoko 7-8m
-Riise 5m

That would be more than enough. With Caron & Sissoko already surplus to requirements and someone being brought in already, regardless of Mascherano, to cover defensively the sale of these 3 players wouldn't damage the team. That would leave the investment from the owners to cover the attacking positions along with the possible sales of some attacking players.

I see no reason why we cant buy Mascherano as well as investing in weaker areas. This is, as you said, all speculation of course!

~Rebel~

On PHB's spending issue, I know Rafa hasn't got the greatest record ever, but at the same time, when he's buying quality he has a decent record. The only realisticly decent people to take over at this point are Lippi and Mourinho. Mourinho is pretty poor in the transfer market. Id much prefer to trust Rafa with 60mill then i would mourinho. Lippi then im very dubious of. First off you have the same situation as Rafa, a man who has done brilliantly in his own country, but never managed outside it. He also hasn't got a word of english. Even Capello learned a bit. Capello is the only one i wouldn't have minded coming in, but he;s obviously not on the market. Klinnsman, just no. Has no club experience whatsoever. There was a lot of talk his success with the national team was largely down to a fantastic backroom staff, which is supported by how they don't seem to miss him at all.

whatawaster

I really hope that this is just speculation. I think by the end of January we could know. If the owners give Rafa anything significant to spend (10m +) then i don't think they are thinking of sacking him. If they are only in this for the money and Return on Investment, then they would be fine with Rafa finishing top 4 each year and a decent CL run. Am i right in thinking there isn't a huge jump in prize money and TV money for finishing in the top 2? On that basis, while we look a shoe-in for the top 4 (and i think we still do) it will just cost them more in the long run to replace him.

The other question then is whether or not Rafa will walk. I think the overwhelming signs are that he will not. He's rebuilding the club from top to bottom, is by and large signing good young players and his family are settled in Liverpool. I remember reading that his wife once said to him that he can go and take the real madrid job if he wanted, but she and the kids were staying in spain.

Obviously Rafa wants more money, who wouldn't. but I can see him having enough to work with in the summer. Assuming Mascherano costs 17m (I believe it's less) and we tie up a CB in Jan, we can fund Mascherano's fee by selling Carson, Sissoko and Riise and probably have some left over. Then in the summer we'll need a Left back, striker and a winger who can play on both sides. Assuming we get the usual 25 million plus sales (at least one of kuyt, Crouch and Voronin should be sold, guthrie), I think Rafa will stay, sign one player in the 20m bracket (like Torres), one for around 10m (like Babel) and another arbeloa at left back for 3-5m.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

The comments coming from the owners are basically saying that he's being a bit childish about the whole situation, so this theory would certainly fit in with that.

Only time as far as i can recall that they mentioned the childishness was when Hicks was asked about the press conference incident and said Rafa had a bit of a sulk over comments to him to get on with managing until the transfer window opens. Dont think there was ever any reference to him being childish in relation to any overly-optimistic views on transfers.

Unearthly

PHB wrote: »

Unless you are Spurs could be most peoples signature on here
I can't see him sticking around unless he gets the funds. That said, I think he'd be nuts to move on unless he gets a decent offer. Barca and Real look pretty set, Milan and Inter look pretty set, Ranieri looks relatively safe, who would he go to? That said, I suppose by the end of the season one of those managers will be fired, but with Mourinho also waiting in the wings, he might find it difficult and might have to go to another Valencia stlye club.

Dunno about that. Ancelotti has done nothing in the league for ages, if Milan don't come close to winning the CL, he will probably be gone.

Although Mourinho is rumoured to be after that job aswell.

zing

BTW - we've got a match in 40 minutes

Team: Itandje, Finnan, Riise, Carragher, Hyypia, Lucas, Alonso, Benayoun, Babel, Crouch, Kuyt.
Subs: Martin, Hobbs, Mascherano, El Zhar, Voronin.

Good to see Lucas getting a chance. That team should be more than capable but we've been proved wrong on that front recently

Chardee MacDennis

Don Hutchinson is on Luton's bench - that's a blast from the past!

PHB

I see no reason why we cant buy Mascherano as well as investing in weaker areas.

Money! Let's be realistic here. Even if the club go nuts, the most Rafas gona be able to spend is 60 million net spend, and that's going nuts. A much more realistic number would be 40 or so, and thats if they are investing. If the requirements are a striker, two wingers, and CB/LB cover, then it would be very questionable whether you should spend 10-17 million of that on Mascherano.
Maybe you could do that with the sale of players, but if you sell players you have to replace them.

Dont think there was ever any reference to him being childish in relation to any overly-optimistic views on transfers.

Well that is the comment I was talking about. He was being childish in the press conference because of something him and Hicks disagreed with over. That must have been a transfer issue, and more than likely, the Mascherano issue.

p.s. lol about Ancelotti. The CL is much more important to Serie A and probably La Liga clubs. Milan are perfectly happy with their manager who has gotten them to an unreal about of CL finals. His CL record makes Rafa's look poor. The guys is unreal.

Chardee MacDennis

Kuyt has been very disappointing so far, especially in view of the opposition.

kryogen

but in fairness all its going to take is one good attack and a little quality and liverpool win easily, luton dont have the quality to get back into the game if ye can find a goal, hopefully that wont be until ye hit even money on betfair however

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Money! Let's be realistic here. Even if the club go nuts, the most Rafas gona be able to spend is 60 million net spend, and that's going nuts. A much more realistic number would be 40 or so, and thats if they are investing. If the requirements are a striker, two wingers, and CB/LB cover, then it would be very questionable whether you should spend 10-17 million of that on Mascherano.
Maybe you could do that with the sale of players, but if you sell players you have to replace them.

Yup, comes down to money. isn't this why the club was sold though ? So we could buy these types of players? Anyway, Ive already shown how he can be bought by selling players that are no longer needed. I dont think two wingers are required, although it would be nice. Babel will hopefully develop on the wing. One top winger that can play on either side is needed along with a striker and cover at LB/CB in my opinion.

Unearthly

Thought Luton look far better than a team who are near the bottom of League 1. Kuyt stood out for me for being dreadful. Gave the ball away everytime.

off topic again lads sorry but PHB, I don't think you realise how bad Milan are doing in the league, it's not just a case of not winning the league, but they are 12th. Therefore they are in danger of not even qualifying for the competition they worship next season if they don't win the CL

dc69

PHB wrote: »

Yeh, when he spends money, he normally gets it right.

I think the whole Mascherano issue is really causing a lot of tension. First off, I don't think his transfer fee is 17 mil + wages, cause if he was that cheap, there's no way the owners wouldn't want him. It wouldn't even make business sense.

Most people on this board feel that CB cover is needed, maybe LB cover, two wingers and a striker. I would imagine the owners feel this way too, especially if they are getting advice from some footballing people (which I assume they are)
If Rafa has been told he has 50 million to spend, and he says he wants to spend 10-17 million of it on Mascherano, the owners are probably looking at that and saying, 'what the **** is he trying to do?'
Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, and Sissoko looks like a pretty decent central midfield situation, and spending another 10-17 million on Mascherano is somewhat wasteful considering the situation in the other areas. As such, the owners are questioning whether or not he is the man to bring the club forward.

Also I think there is a chance that perhaps Rafa, after being told for so long that investment was coming, is somewhat unrealistic. He wants to be able to buy Mascherano, and then still buy the other players he needs. The comments coming from the owners are basically saying that he's being a bit childish about the whole situation, so this theory would certainly fit in with that.

That said, this is all wide speculation

very good points!


luton look a better team than derby,maybe its the occasion

kryogen

the analysts and "experts" where im watching the game are giving benitez some serious stick here, i dont disagree entirely with everything they say but i have a major issue with them repeating how stupid he is not to have torres in the starting XI, A, you should not need torres v a poor league 1 team, B, crouch is constantly heralded by them as a guy who should be given a chance, hes a having one today against pretty poor opposition and not doing much yet they arent mentioning that at all!

i think its pretty unfair tbh

lol one of them just said he has to take kuyt off and get voronin on!! lmao whats the difference!