Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Cyrus

ramos was a right back when rm bought him they played him CB (or was it the other way around )

redspider, what other managers could replace rafa? im not sure about o'neill and am struggling to think of any outstanding candidates

_blank_

Cyrus wrote: »

redspider, what other managers could replace rafa? im not sure about o'neill and am struggling to think of any outstanding candidates

José.

Hiddink.

Possibly Hitzfeld.

kida

What would Liverpool fans describe their style of play as? From what I have seen of them this season I couldn't actually describe what whey they play and is a fundamental problem that needs to be dealt with. IMO its why they are inconsistent.

They don't actually know until Saturday morning what whey they will be playing that day. Other teams may change personel but still have a settled way of playing. This approach can work in cups or the CL but not sute it can in the PL.

Stky10

DesF wrote: »

Possibly Hitzfeld.

He's had an awful time in Munich since he's returned. I know they're top of the league on goal difference (or they were last week), but they spent so much money relative to every other team that its ridiculous. Thats why he's was forced out at the end of the season (although technically he's retiring rather than being sacked).

tibor

kida wrote: »

What would Liverpool fans describe their style of play as?

****e.

An Citeog

Tusky wrote: »

Dont think thats correct. I was aware that he was more of a RB than a LB but I have seen him play LB on occasion. If he has played CB its only been to fill in. Hes a full back for sure. Thats where he plays for Real anyway.

Real bought him as a centre-half from Sevilla. His best position is definitely CB. The problem is that Real haven't yet found a replacement for Michel Salgado, so have been forced to play Ramos there. He's still absolute quality but he's definitely not a LB. He's predominantly right sided aswell.

As for Liverpool's chances of signing him, you can dream! Real paid £20million for him as a 19 year old. Even if he wanted to leave Madrid for Liverpool, you'd be looking at paying £30-40million for him.

spockety

tibor wrote: »

****e.

Bit harsh. I think the best word to describe it is "inconsistent". You just never know who is going to turn up and play.

When Liverpool are on their game and tearing teams apart like they have this season, they are a joy to watch.

When they are losing to Reading, and drawing with Middlesborough, it is awful to watch.

Malice

From here:

TOM Hicks and George Gillett held a secret meeting with Jurgen Klinsmann to line him up as the next manager of Liverpool FC.

Hicks today insisted the talks would not have resulted in the immediate dismissal of Rafael Benitez and that Klinsmann was only "an insurance policy."

He told the ECHO: "We attempted to negotiate an option, as an insurance policy, to have him become manager if Rafa left for Real Madrid or other clubs that were rumoured in the UK press.

"Or in case our communication spiralled out of control for some reason."

The ECHO can also reveal:
* Had Liverpool crashed out of the Champions League the club’s owners would have tried to replace Benitez.


* A deal was almost agreed for Dubai International Capital to buy a minority share in the club in the autumn, only for talks to collapse over the valuation of the club.


* Hicks is hopeful for a financial restructure and that plans for the new stadium will be released by the end of this week

This is not good, Klinsmann as an "insurance policy" doesn't seem like an intelligent move by the owners. I realise it's all hearsay now that he's taken the Bayern job but is he really the kind of manager that they think can do a better job than Rafa?

zing

Insurance policy my arse

Atletico also looking at Momo
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3045969,00.html

prendy

i think they want to put their own people in key positions at the club...manager being the most prominant one. not good from rafa's point of view.
IMO no point changing till june...new manager cant really make too many changes mid season.

dobsdave

I have a feeling that Lawro's prediction that 'the yanks could be out before Rafa' might just be correct.
Dont think they really have a clue, and have realised they have bitten off more than they can chew.

prendy

good point and the potential ROI is not working out with the stadium costs etc.

kida

prendy wrote: »

good point and the potential ROI is not working out with the stadium costs etc.

but this will put off any prospective investor

zing

This also more or less indirectly confirms the Miskelly rumours from a week or two ago. They are actively seeking partners.

While I can kinda understand them talking to Klinsmann in case Rafa walked away I simply cannot understand why he'd now come out and admit this. Plus the whole we'd have gotten rid of him had we not qualified in the CL side doesn't really equate to an 'insurance policy' which is why I'm having trouble believing it. Not sure if I want to read the full article.

If I were Rafa though I'd be giving serious thought to walking away from these muppets. Or at least one fool anyway - it's always Hicks for some reason doing the talking. Maybe Gillet is just as bad but at least he seems to know when to keep his mouth shut.

How can he stay on with these relevantions now and still no public show of support ?

zing

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/14/tom-hicks-jurgen-klinsmann-only-an-insurance-100252-20347645/“

Rafa has both of our support, and our communication has greatly improved.

Better late than never

whatawaster

bloody muppets. I can't believe i bought all their rubbish talk and rhetoric. lets hope their finances get even worse and they get the hell out of here.

i feel like crying.

yom 1

kida wrote: »

but this will put off any prospective investor

Not necessarily. It looks more and more like G&H have only viewed Liverpool as a way to make a quick buck not long term investment. A potential buyer who actually plans on building the stadium and stay for the long term could and would make a ROI if by nothing else, the increased ticket sales.

When they took over the club everything seemed to be rosy, new owners going to invest money on the team and fund the new stadium. It has since transpired that none of the money invested was theirs, they havent been able to secure the funding for the stadium, redesigned it costing the club a substantial amount of money and time only to realise it was just a pipe dream cos they had no money, and revert to a second tender for the stadium which would actually be the third time its been designed. They have also completely disrupted the club on the field aswell by allowing all the bull**** that has been in the papers about rafa, transfers, Klinnsmann(i mean seriously thats an appointment you'd expect newcastle to make) and all the other crap we have been reading.

Ive been thinking this for quite some time now but imo G&H are without a doubt the wrong men for the club. Moores and Parry had one job to do and that was find a suitable investor to take the club forward and they have balls it up good and proper. I really wish we could turn back the clock and sell it to DIC. If the reports of them being interested again are true i reall really hope that they gain control in the very near future.

DaBreno

I think our managers days may be numbered. Even considering the traditional Image of a loud mouthed Texan, this was a spectacular admission. Why say somthing like this in public? Theyre not stupid(anyone who can buy a football club and get the club to pay for it is genius in fact), you have to imagine that this is an attempt to undermine Rafa further. Between this, their public spats with Rafa and their ulcer-inducing plans to finance the Stadium, this whole affair is starting to look like a dark time for the Club. (Klinsmann?? Ye Gods!!)

At least DIC seem to be hanging around. What are the chances the failiing US property market scupper the Yanks plans for the Club? Would they accept a bid from DIC or is the club still too overpriced for their liking?

An Citeog

yom 1 wrote: »

Not necessarily. It looks more and more like G&H have only viewed Liverpool as a way to make a quick buck not long term investment. A potential buyer who actually plans on building the stadium and stay for the long term could and would make a ROI if by nothing else, the increased ticket sales.

When they took over the club everything seemed to be rosy, new owners going to invest money on the team and fund the new stadium. It has since transpired that none of the money invested was theirs, they havent been able to secure the funding for the stadium, redesigned it costing the club a substantial amount of money and time only to realise it was just a pipe dream cos they had no money, and revert to a second tender for the stadium which would actually be the third time its been designed. They have also completely disrupted the club on the field aswell by allowing all the bull**** that has been in the papers about rafa, transfers, Klinnsmann(i mean seriously thats an appointment you'd expect newcastle to make) and all the other crap we have been reading.

Ive been thinking this for quite some time now but imo G&H are without a doubt the wrong men for the club. Moores and Parry had one job to do and that was find a suitable investor to take the club forward and they have balls it up good and proper. I really wish we could turn back the clock and sell it to DIC. If the reports of them being interested again are true i reall really hope that they gain control in the very near future.

I find it laughable that so many people are surprised that G&H used debt capital to finance the takeover. Apart from the very richest, nobody has £350million sitting idle in a bank account, and if they do, they really don't know much about money. As long as the ROI covers their interest payments in the short term and their principle + interest in the long term, they're happy. Liverpool are an investment to G&H, pure and simple, and it's not going to be any different if DIC take over.

The reason Liverpool can't spend as much s United, Real Madrid etc is because they don't have anywhere near the same income potential. That isn't just because of the size of Anfield either. While the previous owners and Rick Parry were busy running the club as inefficiently as possible, the bigger clubs were expanding their fanbases and marketing themselves in the emerging markets of the far east. I think G&H badly underestimated how far behind the rest Liverpool actually were. They really need to start making changes at the top, because if they don't, Liverpool could be in quite a bit of bother.

whatawaster

yom 1 wrote: »

Not necessarily. It looks more and more like G&H have only viewed Liverpool as a way to make a quick buck not long term investment.

i very much doubt that, they would have spent millions on architects fees already and legal costs. i think they did see it as a long term investment, but personally i hope they f*** off. they haven't contributed a single thing to the club. Stadium looks no closer, and however unlikely the outcome may be, we are, if reports are correct, just weeks from being the property of RBS.

Dub13

This is the kind of behavior that was expected by the little leprechaun gimp Malcolm glazer up the east lancs road,I am disgusted we have this kind of crap going on at our club.

whatawaster

Reading some of the direct quotes from hicks(i got these from RAWK), makes things seem a LITTLE better.

“In November, when it appeared we were in danger of not advancing in the Champions League, weren’t playing well in our Premier League matches, and Rafa and we were having communication issues over the January transfer window, George and I met with Jurgen Klinsmann to learn as much as we could about English and European football.

“He is a very impressive man. We attempted to negotiate an option, as an insurance policy, to have him become our manager in the event Rafa decided to leave our club for Real Madrid or other clubs that were rumoured in the UK press, or in case our communication spiralled out of control for some reason.”

“After George and I had our long and productive meeting with Rafa following the Man United match, we put all of our issues behind us and received Rafa's commitment that he wanted to stay with Liverpool.

“We never reached agreement on an option with Jurgen, and we are both pleased for him that he has a great opportunity to return to Germany and coach a great club team.

“Rafa has both of our support, and our communication has greatly improved.

“Foster, Rick Parry and Rafa now have regular meetings at Melwood on Monday mornings.

“The two families always try to have a telephonic meeting on Monday afternoons, so we all are on the same page. We all want to win more games.”

Chardee MacDennis

Telephonic meeting? You mean a conference call? is this guy Monty Burns?

yom 1

An Citeog wrote: »

I find it laughable that so many people are surprised that G&H used debt capital to finance the takeover. Apart from the very richest, nobody has £350million sitting idle in a bank account, and if they do, they really don't know much about money. As long as the ROI covers their interest payments in the short term and their principle + interest in the long term, they're happy. Liverpool are an investment to G&H, pure and simple, and it's not going to be any different if DIC take over.

Dont get me wrong I understand that 100% but to find out not a single penny of their own money is at risk but they are looking to make 75m profit is a bit much. I thought these guys were supposed to have a portfolio valued at a couple of hundred million each. They have used none of which to purchase this club. I find it hard to see how they got 100% funding to purchase the club without any of their personal money at risk, especially seen as the club had substanial debts at the time

The reason Liverpool can't spend as much s United, Real Madrid etc is because they don't have anywhere near the same income potential. That isn't just because of the size of Anfield either. While the previous owners and Rick Parry were busy running the club as inefficiently as possible, the bigger clubs were expanding their fanbases and marketing themselves in the emerging markets of the far east. I think G&H badly underestimated how far behind the rest Liverpool actually were. They really need to start making changes at the top, because if they don't, Liverpool could be in quite a bit of bother.

Hit the nail on the head there. How they couldnt secure any significant sponsorship/investment after winning the champions league in 2005 shows Parry & co's level of incompetence is beyond a joke.

Savman

Even though I'm not a pool fan and I hope we stuff yiz at Anfield next Monday, I do not like to see stuff like this happening because it lets the fans down. I don't know much about your owners other than what's reported in the press but it certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

If anything, your predicament makes me appreciate what we have in Randy Lerner and IIRC his reps have confirmed he had looked into purchasing Liverpool before looking at Villa but for various reasons decided not to run with it. Sounds like your crowd have more money than footballing sense, a trend we can probably thank Abramovich for kicking off.

Nothing more soul destroying than lumping yer hard earned cash into a club ye love only to find it run by egotistical PR mouthpieces, trust me I know from the Deadly Doug years at VP.

Just a little solidarity FWIW

event

tbh, i think he is on borrowed time now

if a chairman comes out and says he spoke to another manager about replacing the current one, i dont think it can be sugar coated really

strnage to coem out and say it

Kanney

I was a bit afraid when I saw on BBC Sport that Hicks said he was thinking of Klinsmann, but a little bit better when it was on LFC.tv hopefully this is the end of speculation. Rafa should throw Torres and Gerrard at Luton tomorrow and destroy them. Give the fans another 8 goals.

woodyg

This latest twist is a bad sign for Raffa, i can't see him hangin about after the Summer unless he's backed to the hilt over his transfer dealings.

It's a mad idea by Hicks to admit they were looking for a new manager behind the scenes. What signal does that send out to Raffa about the support he'll have from above?

ciaran76

Not a Lpool fan so looking at this from an outside point of view.

It looks to me that the owners are kinda pushing Rafa now. By telling the world that they spoke to Klinnsman about Rafa's postion leaves a bad after taste in the mouth imho.

But if the owners want to sell the club already I am not sure what getting rid of the current managaer will do ?
Maybe its so that the new owners who can come in and appoint their own team.

I know I have made it sound simple but maybe thats whats going on? At the end of the day its not good washing your laundry in public.

Bounty Hunter

Ill miss Rafa when he inevitably walks/is replaced.

tibor

woodyg wrote: »

This latest twist is a bad sign for Raffa, i can't see him hangin about after the Summer unless he's backed to the hilt over his transfer dealings.

Ditto. Looks untenable atm.

Dub13

Dub13 wrote: »

This is the kind of behavior that was expected by the little leprechaun gimp Malcolm glazer up the east lancs road,I am disgusted we have this kind of crap going on at our club.

I have to agree. Funnily enough, Glazer has been very good so far. He came in amid a huge amount of fan opposition and yet u dont hear from him at all, and he has backed SAF financially whilst Gillet and Hicks came in without too mcuh opposition from the Pool fans and have seemingly begun makin a balls of it all.

Rafa is the most successful manager Liverpool have had for years, people could say Houlier won more but Rafa won the Champions League. He deserves more time.

The thing that amazes me is why say it at all? Even if he way goin to sack rafa come June, that sort of thing is likely to affect the players and hence its not in the best interests of the club. Unless hes tryin to get Rafa to jump so he can save on the severence package?

Dub13

I know it just does not make sense,I don't think G&H know what they are up to.

kida

Do Liverpool fans think now that it seems likely that Rafa will not be boss next year that they should get rid of him now and give someone the rest of the season to evaulate the squad?
Current form would suggest that 4th is not a given, so would it be risky to change and possible lose 4th.

Villain

Question if Rafa had come out last week and said he had spoken with Bayern Munich about possibly joining them if things didn't work out with G&H would G&H have liked it?

Having an owner come out and say what he has is totally wrong imo, fair enough if they thought Rafa might leave they could have sized up other managers but why did they feel the need to tell everyone. You can't criticise the manager for his behaviour in an interview and then go and pull this stunt.

I wonder if the row earlier was really about Transfers or did they tell Rafa that he didn't improve Klinnsman had agreed to come and they are simply telling the world before Rafa does when he leaves??

Dub13

I am hearing more rumors that Mr Hicks is again interested in A.S. Roma.,this can only be good news if true.

shotamoose

Sweet Jeebus, are these Yanks Man U agents or something? If they genuinely believe that Rafa is their man then why the **** admit to approaching Klinsmann? They could hardly make Rafa look any more foolish if they tried, especially given his recent impassioned professions of loyalty to Liverpool. In fact why admit to that at all when it just tells everyone you don't have a clue about the game? Effectively Hicks said "We met him so he could tell us about the English game, and on that basis decided to basically offer him the job". Tools.

Dub13

DIC Bid to Buy Stake Aborted

DIC bid to buy stake aborted
Jan 14 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

DIC would have bought a stake in Liverpool Football Club last autumn had they been able to agree a price with club owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett, the ECHO can today reveal.

Talks between the two parties reached an advanced stage as the Arab consortium considered buying a minority shareholding of between 10-20%.

Only a disagreement on the valuation placed on the club by its American owners stopped DIC from investing.

The ECHO understands that despite missing out on buying the club in its entirety when David Moores opted to sell his shares to Hicks and Gillett, DIC maintained an interest in Liverpool which resurfaced in October.

And when Hicks and Gillett attended the home game against Arsenal on the 28th of that month an intermediary brought the two parties together.

On the table was a minority shareholding. Initially, DIC wanted a 20% stake but Hicks and Gillett were willing to offer them no more than 10%. But a compromise of 15% was eventually reached and at that stage it looked likely that DIC would finally be able to invest in Liverpool FC.

That was until they learned that Hicks and Gillett had valued the club at £1bn, a figure which meant they would have to pay £150m if they wanted to purchase the proposed 15% stake. There was also a proviso that any such deal could only be concluded if DIC agreed to forego any voting rights.

At that point, DIC pulled out of the talks insistent that the club had been overvalued, particularly as Hicks and Gillett had purchased it for just £218.9m (including £44.8m of debt) just 10 months earlier.

The new £1bn valuation was based on what Hicks and Gillett estimated the club would be worth once the new Anfield stadium was built – a valuation which DIC felt was over the top.

The ECHO understands that if Liverpool FC was put up for sale DIC would again be willing to make an offer.

But, contrary to newspaper reports yesterday, no official offers for the club have been made and no meetings are planned between Hicks and Gillett and DIC.

Hicks told the ECHO: “The speculation in the London tabloids on Sunday morning is more rubbish.

“George and I have no interest in meeting with DIC or selling our shares to them.

“We are amazed at how silly rumours find themselves in print in the tabloids.”

Hicks and Gillett have until the end of February to complete financial restructuring, as they seek to transfer £350m of debt incurred in the purchase and running of the club onto the club itself.

It has been reported that should they fail in their efforts to repay the estimated £350m acquisition debt when it is due in six weeks time, there would be the possibility of the running of the club being taken over by the Royal Bank of Scotland, to which the debt is owed.

But sources close to Hicks insist it is only a matter of days before a financial restructuring deal is in place and plans for the long awaited new stadium are released.

If the restructuring deal is concluded later this week it is highly likely that both Hicks and Gillett will have had to use some of their own personal equity to secure the loan as the credit crunch has made borrowing money much more difficult and costly than it was just six months ago.

But until any such deal is signed, Liverpool’s fans will wonder what lies in store for their club.

A late bid by an interested party which could result in Hicks and Gillett diluting their stake in the club cannot be ruled out. But time is running out and, according to Hicks, neither of them is looking to sell, anyway.

PHB

They are just trying to backtrack. They are confused I'd say with the loyalty fans are showing Rafa. I'd say they are also trying to get him to walk in order to save some money.

whatawaster

oh no. Agger out again, According to Liverpoolfc.tv

Bugger.

walshki

PHB wrote: »

They are just trying to backtrack. They are confused I'd say with the loyalty fans are showing Rafa. I'd say they are also trying to get him to walk in order to save some money.

I agree. As a few others have said no-one is so stupid as to naievely put out a statement like that thinking it had no consequences. Having also spoken about how amazed they were how silly stories get into the tabloids how did they think this would be used? I think they're just trying to push him to the door - they know he's proud. I'm very interested to see Rafa's first reaction to this. It will be very difficult to put a dignified face on it for him.

mike65

DaBreno wrote: »

I think our managers days may be numbered. Even considering the traditional Image of a loud mouthed Texan, this was a spectacular admission. Why say somthing like this in public?

Hicks would have known that a Bayern official spilled the beans, I suspect he was asked to deny it and could'nt.

Mike.

walshki

mike65 wrote: »

Hicks would have known that a Bayern official spilled the beans, I suspect he was asked to deny it and could'nt.

Mike.

Even so he could have stopped at saying the first part he said - i.e. they met him to learn about european and English football and he could also have said that they never made any arrangement with him about possibly replacing rafa.

I've lost belief in Rafa's tactics but you can still see he cares a lot for the club and its horrific the way Hicks is behaving.

Daemonic

whatawaster wrote: »

oh no. Agger out again, According to Liverpoolfc.tv

Bugger.

Indeed. Looks like our Skrtel may be called upon sooner rather than later.

Daniel Agger has suffered a recurrence of the metatarsal injury which has kept him out since September.
Specialists have yet to confirm how long the Dane will now be out of action, but Rafa Benitez doesn't expect Agger to feature this month.

The news comes just days after the centre-back was due to make a comeback in a reserve game at Blackburn, only for the match to be cancelled due to the weather.

Benitez told Liverpoolfc.tv: "We've had some bad news in that Agger has the same problem again. He was training and ready to play but yesterday in training he felt something, so we need to go back and start from the beginning.

"It's not easy to say when he will be back. He is going to see different surgeons and then we will be able to analyse the situation."

Asked if the defender was likely to feature in the next few weeks, Benitez added: "No, I don't think so."

Aside from Agger, Benitez has a clean bill of health for the FA Cup third round replay with Luton on Tuesday night.

The Spaniard added: "Fabio Aurelio is fit again and the other players are available."

mike65

Indeed, the new lad will have get a swift induction.

Mike.

flanzer

If Hicks really wanted Benitez to stay and fully supported Benitez, and not leave for Real, he would have come out in the media and vehimently said the Rafa going nowhere, we fully support him, yadda yadda yadda. But instead said he was happy to find another manager 'in case' Rafa left. Now if that isn't a case of lack of support, I don't know what is! Sounds like he's happier for him to leave than be pushed. If they decide not to sell to DIC, I'd say it could be the penultimate nail in Rafa's coffin!

Jesus Wept

What a fúcking mess.

Hicks is clearly trying to push Rafa out and is dragging the club through the mud in the process.

Hicks reminds me of this guy.

redspider

kida wrote: »

What would Liverpool fans describe their style of play as? From what I have seen of them this season I couldn't actually describe what whey they play and is a fundamental problem that needs to be dealt with. IMO its why they are inconsistent.

It is hard to describe, that's for sure. Most times there is one or two missing aspects, whether it is a crossing formation (ie: two winger type players in midfield in a 4-4-2), yet not having the strikers with heading ability in the centre. A mix-match, is one way to describe it, hot-potch another, but definitely the unfinished article.

Many of the players have talent, skills and attributes, as all players have, but they are not moulded together into a unit where every player is singing off the same hymn sheet. The teams that are put out look like they are unfinished/incomplete, in need of a new signing, and what with the chopping and the changing from match to match its hard to get the players into a rythym where they know where each player will be, how they like the ball, where at what pac, etc. The back line is more stable though, and Liverpool have had more success in that department by-and-large.

Liverpool are probably better at being underdogs, but are frail, and certainly arent able to surmount pressure with huge numbers of scoreable chances when the chips are down, hitting woodwork left right and centre. They can raise their game as they have done in other seasons such as in the CL and cup games, but it remains to be seen if they will repeat that this season.

Fingers crossed ....

Redspider

zing

walshki wrote: »

Even so he could have stopped at saying the first part he said - i.e. they met him to learn about european and English football and he could also have said that they never made any arrangement with him about possibly replacing rafa.

But wouldn't they have been better off talking to someone who's achieved something in European & English football - say someone who'd won the CL & FA cup ?

eZe^

An Citeog wrote: »

Real bought him as a centre-half from Sevilla. His best position is definitely CB. The problem is that Real haven't yet found a replacement for Michel Salgado, so have been forced to play Ramos there. He's still absolute quality but he's definitely not a LB. He's predominantly right sided aswell.

As for Liverpool's chances of signing him, you can dream! Real paid £20million for him as a 19 year old. Even if he wanted to leave Madrid for Liverpool, you'd be looking at paying £30-40million for him.

I disagree, Capello played Ramos at CB because they didnt have adequate cover with just Helguera and Canavarro. He is much better on the wings as he bombs up and down very well and has excellent crossing ability. When he plays CB a whole dimension of his game is lost. Although he very good defensively, getting better and better every season. Prob one of the best in the world in his position.