Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Killme00

I dont understand what can Moores and Parry do to stop the refinacing deal. Afterall H&G own the club through their company Kop Holding or whatever, so they have all the power.

kida

Killme00 wrote: »

I dont understand what can Moores and Parry do to stop the refinacing deal. Afterall H&G own the club through their company Kop Holding or whatever, so they have all the power.

exactly - its liverpool fans on here deluding themselves that they can

Dr Galen

well they remain on the board, but if things come to a vote they'd be outnumbered really.

might depend though. decsion like this might need a full majority, donlt know really

PHB

Gillet does however favour sacking Rafa? As such, the DIC can come in, and provide money for the stadium, but I'd imagine Rafa is still in the same position he is now.

zing

No one is deluded as to what Moores & Parry can or can't do. They can do absolutely nothing if it comes to a vote but they can be a voice of reason and are fully entitled to raise concerns they have and suggest alternatives which may be better for the long term future of the club. That's their function/responsibility as directors of the club/company.

But as mentioned - they'd be out voted if it came to it.

zing

PHB wrote: »

Gillet does however favour sacking Rafa? As such, the DIC can come in, and provide money for the stadium, but I'd imagine Rafa is still in the same position he is now.

Gillet's position is unknown. Yes he met with Klinsmann and has kept very very quite about everything that's gone on. He did however give his backing to Rafa back in Dec.

Mr Alan

Exactly, Gillette backed Rafa when all this ****e started, despite it generally being ignored by the press. He has all along seem the lesser of two evils.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

Gillet does however favour sacking Rafa? As such, the DIC can come in, and provide money for the stadium, but I'd imagine Rafa is still in the same position he is now.

Well if just one of the two shareholders wanted to keep Rafa, be it Gillet or DIC or whoever, surely he'd be safe with the help of Moore's and Parry's votes.

Killme00

If i'm honest this looks very much like a strip mining operation. This is actually what i expected would happen to Man Utd. It hasnt because of the profitabiltiy and potentail future income stream for the club. Glazer will eventaully sell up and make a packet.

Liverpool is a different story because of the loss of potential income due to the fact that they dont have a bigger capacity stadium and a south east asian marketing machine. The cost of putting these in place now would be immense and i dont see H&G willing to invest for the longer term. I think they would accept the first decent offer they receive from DIC (whose intentions are unclear).

Killme00

whatawaster wrote: »

Well if just one of the two shareholders wanted to keep Rafa, be it Gillet or DIC or whoever, surely he'd be safe with the help of Moore's and Parry's votes.

Are you sure Moores and Parry have a vote? Do they still hold shares?

whatawaster

Killme00 wrote: »

Are you sure Moores and Parry have a vote? Do they still hold shares?

no but they are on the board. Of course they could probably be easily removed, but both shareholders would need to agree i think.

zing

Killme00 wrote: »

If i'm honest this looks very much like a strip mining operation. This is actually what i expected would happen to Man Utd. It hasnt because of the profitabiltiy and potentail future income stream for the club. Glazer will eventaully sell up and make a packet.

Liverpool is a different story because of the loss of potential income due to the fact that they dont have a bigger capacity stadium and a south east asian marketing machine. The cost of putting these in place now would be immense and i dont see H&G willing to invest for the longer term. I think they would accept the first decent offer they receive from DIC (whose intentions are unclear).

That's entirely possible. However while I'd be glad to see the back of Hicks after all that's gone on I still think Gillet could have the best interests of the club at heart. As I've said here before he's always struck me as the genuine sports fan type who's in it for the love of the game as much as anything else. Of course I could be completely off the mark on that.

Killme00 wrote: »

Are you sure Moores and Parry have a vote? Do they still hold shares?

They don't hold shares afaik (although they may hold shares on behalf of another director as some of the previous directors did on behalf of Moores) and it's unknown as to whether they still have votes but press articles seem to suggest they have. Club's www site lists them in the same capacity as directors as the Hicks & Gillet sons who one would imagine have voting rights in the event of something happening to either of their fathers. Regardless of whether or not they have a vote they have a responsibility as directors of the club/company to act in the best interests of the club/company - i.e. they have the right to raise concerns/objections with any proposals which they do not feel are in the best interests of the club/company. They might not get far with those objections if they've no vote or are outvoted but they should still raise their concerns.

Mr Alan

the board is something like;

Hicks,Hicks,Gillette,Gillette,Moores,Parry.

Grim

Killme00

whatawaster wrote: »

no but they are on the board. Of course they could probably be easily removed, but both shareholders would need to agree i think.

Correct me if im wrong. Liverpool the private company has 6 directors who sit on the board. 2 Gilletes, 2 Hicks and Moores and Parry. Hicks and Gillete senior are joint chairperson. Hiring and firing of the manager would fall under the remit of the chairpersons and the board members aka Moores/Parry/Gillete Jnr and Hicks Jnr have no power to oppose that.

Does anyone know if Moores or Parry hold shares in Liverpool Football Club? Is the club wholly owned by Kop (Hicks and Gilletes Company? Who holds shares in Kop? Are Moores and Parry in fact defacto directors or even worse Honorary directors of either Liverpool Football Club or Kop Holdings company?

If it is the case that Gillete and Hiicks own Liverpool football club then there is nothing anyone can do to stop them doing whatever the hell the want with the club, the stadium, the players. The only hope Liverpool fans have is if the decide to sell up when the realsie that LFC isnt the cash cow they thought it was.

Mr Alan

Moores is an honoury member if i'm not mistaken.

Not sure about Parry, they probably just kept him around to laugh at how thick he is.

prendy

at the end of the day what does it matter...they own the club.
its a pity they lied about the finances to gain control but i guess that happens all the time in business. and whether we as supporters like it or not that is exactly what LFC has become...a series of business decisions.
i think we as fans should concentrate more on whats going on in the dressing room and the pitch than the boardroom.

zing

Moores is Honoury Life President - not sure about the status of his directorship.

Mr Alan

Prendy, you seem to be missing the point massively, what is going on in the board room is already affecting wats going on on the pitch.

FFS our manager is being forced out of the club by one of our new owners, this does not strike you as quite important?

mike65

Make of this what you will, doing the rounds. tosh

Mark this date in your calenders - February 18th 2008. Massive press conference being planned at Anfield as we speak. The club has been sold to DIC for 375 million pounds that will give the current owners $710 million - a $70 million profit. Al Ansari, CEO of DIC has completed his due diligence.

The players and staff were made aware of this prior to the Luton game. Rafa's job is safe but he has to bring in an assistant, this will be Gary McAllister. Rick Parry who offended members of DIC last year, will 'step down' and the new owners will bring in David Dein as a replacement.

No more money will be available for transfer's in the January window as the current owners will not sanction any deals, unless players are sold. The Summer will see massive player investment from DIC, believed to be in the region of 85 million + whatever is made from player sales. This could see a transfer budget of around 115 million.

Mike.

Killme00

The reason why this is different to the situation at Utd is profitabilty. The Man Utd income streams are suffiecnt to maintain and repay the debts loaded by Glazer onto the club. Man Utd will be okay as long as the club is profitable. However once that debt is repayed Glazer could sell up, making an absolute mint in the process. The problem lies in the fact that the next guy after him will do they same ie load debt onto the club/company to repay itself and make himself a fortune. This will only work as long as income streams remain consistent over a long period, which they invariably wont.

The only risk in these types of takeover is on the club, not the stripmining bast*rds that are Glazer/Hicks&Gillet/ Thaksawhatever and the next bunch of cowboys who decide to buy a football club to make money from it.

Isnt Barcelona owned by the fans , i prefer that way.

spockety

prendy wrote: »

i think we as fans should concentrate more on whats going on in the dressing room and the pitch than the boardroom.

It's too late for that now, Tom Hicks has seen to that. Performances this season (other than securing Champs League footie for next season) are now totally irrelevant. This is far bigger than Rafa's position, the players on the pitch, or what gets said in the dressing room.

Killme00

prendy wrote: »

i think we as fans should concentrate more on whats going on in the dressing room and the pitch than the boardroom.

what happens in the boardroom has a direct correlation to what happens on the pitch and the dressing room. The board room makes the decision to finace the managers future plans, without the appropriate level of support the dressing room is well and truelly f*ked

yom 1

mike65 wrote: »

Make of this what you will, doing the rounds. tosh



Mike.

That makes for very interesting reading Mike. Whats the source or is there any credibility in it at all.

Its looking more and more likely that DIC are interested again. Far too many stories floating around with no denial for them not to be interested. IF that article turns out to be true I think every single Pool fan would be ecstatic.

Daemonic

mike65 wrote: »

Make of this what you will, doing the rounds. tosh



Mike.

Way too good to be true. Reads like a fans wishlist given the recent shenanigans.

zing

Daemonic wrote: »

Way too good to be true. Reads like a fans wishlist given the recent shenanigans.

agreed. And why would it take a whole month to be announced if the deal was agreed a few days ago.

Mr Alan

Mike-even i reckon its too good to be true

(although it would tie into wat i've heard about Parry being willing to sacrafice his position at the club in order to make amends;))

PHB

DIC are still a business, people need to remember this.

Dr Galen

yom 1 wrote: »

That makes for very interesting reading Mike. Whats the source or is there any credibility in it at all.

Its looking more and more likely that DIC are interested again. Far too many stories floating around with no denial for them not to be interested. IF that article turns out to be true I think every single Pool fan would be ecstatic.

agreed......no smoke without fire and all that. something is goin on that hasn't been made public yet or may not be for a few weeks yet.

as for that article, if even we get half that transfer budget i'd be very happy but you'd have to question its credibility as it stands

Killme00

PHB wrote: »

DIC are still a business, people need to remember this.

And their intentions for the club are unclear. They have been silent.

spockety

DIC are also the only credible interested investors in the club who have expressed an interest.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions, but the sentiment among fans is that Gillett and Hicks have let everyone down badly, and it is time for them to sell up, and lets move on to the next investor to see what they do.

DIC could end up being worse than G+H, but I doubt it!

Dr Galen

thats the thing.......the grass is always greener

one thing that is certain though is that both G&H and DIC have planned to increase the value of the club by building the new stadium. With the increased cashflow over a long term period thats at least good news for the club in general

kaimera

Damn, if it is true...we need some god damn stability at this stage.

Any reputable sources saying similar ?

spockety

Whatever about the ins and outs of the business world, Liverpool fans took these guys at their word when they said their takeover was nothing like the Utd. one which saddled the debt straight onto the club. It has transpired they borrowed to buy the club, borrowed to buy players in the summer, and are borrowing again to refinance the original loans and get started on the stadium while putting up a fight against having to dip into their pockets to the tune of 20m to satisfy the banks!

We were promised spending to match Utd and Chelsea, we were promised that the sods would be turned in Stanley Park 'within weeks', and we were promised backing of Rafa.

None of the above have happened. They have lost the fans, end of story.

If DIC end up doing the same, then they will also lose the fans and there will be uproar.

mike65

Okay hold on to your hats!

Jockey Paul Carberry has said that its good DIC have tabled a bid. I just heard that on William Hill radio! Does he have links with Godolphin?

Mike.

PHB

Except, G&H aren't leaving because of the fans. They don't care about the fans. The fans are gona go every week, and that's the only thing they care about.
G&H are leaving, if they are leaving, because they ****ed up the maths, didn't predict that they would be stuck with loans of this size, and thought they could get the stadium financed.

cerbeus

Also they didn't count on Rafa talking back, didn't predict Hicks washing his dirty linen in public. And certainly didn't see/predict the backlash or support of Rafa by the fans.

Killme00

cerbeus wrote: »

Also they didn't count on Rafa talking back, didn't predict Hicks washing his dirty linen in public. And certainly didn't see/predict the backlash or support of Rafa by the fans.

dont make me laugh, rafa talking back has nothing to do with their decision making process.

This has nothing to do with the reasons the are talking to DIC. They dont care about what the fans have to say about benitez, it is all just business to them

prendy

Prendy, you seem to be missing the point massively, what is going on in the board room is already affecting wats going on on the pitch.

obviously i agree but i dont think us depressing ourselves here is gonna solve anything. I along with others thought the yanks wud be good for us with their promise of debt free spending!


Mike i doubt carberry would have any links with gudolphin...he's a jump jockey.
could be wrong though.

seems like theres something big happening behind the scenes!

_blank_

Killme00 wrote: »

They dont care about what the fans have to say about benitez, it is all just business to them

None of the foreign investors care about the clubs they own.

All they care about is lining their pockets, by any means necessary.

Apart from the Russian Oligarchs who are spending their own cash.

Dr Galen

afaik carberry doesn't have any involvement, thats not to say though that he hasn't heard something on the grapevine. Racing is a pretty close knit world

Jesus Wept

Killme00 wrote: »

dont make me laugh, rafa talking back has nothing to do with their decision making process.

This has nothing to do with the reasons the are talking to DIC. They dont care about what the fans have to say about benitez, it is all just business to them

I imagine they do care to some degree. It will be embarrassing for them personally if there are protests/marches/effigies etc, to have that reported in their home states/country/fans of their other sports venture/s.

Statso

mike65 wrote: »

Make of this what you will, doing the rounds. tosh

Mark this date in your calenders - February 18th 2008. Massive press conference being planned at Anfield as we speak. The club has been sold to DIC for 375 million pounds that will give the current owners $710 million - a $70 million profit. Al Ansari, CEO of DIC has completed his due diligence.

The players and staff were made aware of this prior to the Luton game. Rafa's job is safe but he has to bring in an assistant, this will be Gary McAllister. Rick Parry who offended members of DIC last year, will 'step down' and the new owners will bring in David Dein as a replacement.

No more money will be available for transfer's in the January window as the current owners will not sanction any deals, unless players are sold. The Summer will see massive player investment from DIC, believed to be in the region of 85 million + whatever is made from player sales. This could see a transfer budget of around 115 million.

Mike.

Sorry to disappoint people but that story is from Koptalk, which has been exposed as a scam Liverpool website set up to get Liverpool fans to pay the site owner for inside stories from his 'sources'. 99.9% certain that that story is fake.

Cyrus

where was koptalk exposed as a scam??

Mr Alan

Well actually, if Rafa hadnt have spoken out, we would never have known that his job was in direct threat, sure if reports are to be believed, until he spoke out - he was out the door. It was only after he spoke out, and the papers latched onto it (in particular Chris Bascombe who broke the story) that the extent of the current crisis at Anfield became apparent.

This obviously led to the fan protests,which were not anti-yank, but instead pro-Rafa. they didnt expect this at all, they then could not realistically fire him in fear of the response from the fans.

This in turn led to the daft admission that they had in fact spoke to Klinsmann (a statement that was from Hicks only), this was imo, his final attempt at getting Rafa to walk. It didnt work. Instead the Kop once again united behind the manager and team.

Rafa has really taken the club to his heart and for a man of his pride to remain as dignified is amazing imo, to allow himself to be publically humiliated by the yanks and still not resign shows the love he hold for us in his heart.

If the yanks do sell out, it will be 1)because they can make a hefty profit 2)they understated the extent to which the fans would be aware of their dealings within the club 3)the credit crunch in the USA 4)its just not worth the hassle, i agree that they are businessmen at the end of the day (in particular Hicks) and they only want money, but they realise they will be despised in Liverpool if they carry on the way they are and their image glabally will be tarnished beyond repair-making it extra difficult for any future acquisitions they would plan on making, i think they are just willing to cut their losses and bow out, at least thats wat i hope.

If reports are true by DIC are coming in, 1 thing is for sure,

we owe Rafa,Parry (as much as it pains me to say it), Tony Barrett (who interviewed Hicks for the Echo) and Chris Bascombe (despite peoples feelings on him working for the NOTW, if he didnt break the story originally, Rafa would have gotten sacked) a massive thank you imo.

zing

Cyrus wrote: »

where was koptalk exposed as a scam??

See http://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/ for a start. Generally considered to be a scam with 0 inside knowledge - stories, etc.. either made up or taken from other forum sites.

Statso

Cyrus wrote: »

where was koptalk exposed as a scam??

Heres where i heard about it.

http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=19;t=22102

Theres an entire website devoted to telling people the fact that its a scam here.

http://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well actually, if Rafa hadnt have spoken out, we would never have known that his job was in direct threat, sure if reports are to be believed, until he spoke out - he was out the door. It was only after he spoke out, and the papers latched onto it (in particular Chris Bascombe who broke the story) that the extent of the current crisis at Anfield became apparent.

That makes sense in terms of the Rafa situation. In terms of the funding for the stadium situation, that would have become apparent with Rafa talking about the manager situation.

This obviously led to the fan protests,which were not anti-yank, but instead pro-Rafa. they didnt expect this at all, they then could not realistically fire him in fear of the response from the fans.

They were planning to! They actually approached another manager!

they realise they will be despised in Liverpool if they carry on the way they are and their image glabally will be tarnished beyond repair-making it extra difficult for any future acquisitions they would plan on making, i think they are just willing to cut their losses and bow out, at least thats wat i hope.

Not a chance. The Glazers are despised by most if not all United fans. However they couldn't give the slightest **** about that. The only issue is whether or not they can make a profit. The Glazers can apparently, G&H apparently cannot. Their image globally won't be touched at all, why, because it's business, and nobody in business gives a **** about how they treated Rafa.

zing

PHB wrote: »

Not a chance. The Glazers are despised by most if not all United fans. However they couldn't give the slightest **** about that. The only issue is whether or not they can make a profit. The Glazers can apparently, G&H apparently cannot. Their image globally won't be touched at all, why, because it's business, and nobody in business gives a **** about how they treated Rafa.

And if they walk away with a profit they'll spin the whole deal as a financial success and sweep away any of the other crap that happened. Or at least that would seem likes Hicks style given his history of LBOs, etc..

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

They were planning to! They actually approached another manager

They approached Klinsmann in November, the protest marches were the end of November no?

so again, they were about to replace Rafa, they talked to Klinsmann, the fans got wind rafa was about to get the bullet thanks to Bascombe, protests, Klinsmann idea went out the window.

PHB

I'm sorry, I just can't believe you actually think thats what happened.