Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

i disagree PHB, when was the last time you saw Liverpool play with 2 out and out wingers?

I think that would dramatically alter our style of play.

PHB

It might, but Rafa just bought Yossi, so what makes you think that he's gona change the system?

joe123

Mr Alan wrote: »

Where did i say that?

But i do think Kuyt is good enough for a PL winning squad, but not starting 11.

And btw the reason Crouch didnt start tonight is cause he has yet to score a league goal this season and hasnt really impressed any opportunity he has been given.

Yet voronin is more in line of place in the team? The lad looks out of his depth yet why does benitez presist?

Mr Alan wrote: »

and you think we should sign James Mc Fadden?

I mentioned mcfadden because I think hes a better player than pennant,kewell,vorinin and kuyt. Hes another yossi benyaoun.

Mr Alan wrote: »

tottenham in the FA cup final!:D

Reading dont give a ****e cause they know they cant win it and they wanna stay in the PL. The FA cup is a super tournament.

Yeah its funny I see you didnt answer? Which would you prefer? To be knocked out of it in the 3rd round or to be challenging for top spot last day of the season?....Yeah exactly

Mr Alan wrote: »

rafa has reached pretty much every goal he has had in management. Why you think he wont reach this one?

Do you think AC milan, Bayern Munich,Real Madrid, Inter, would all be banging down o'neills door to take over at their clubs? I dont. i like O'Neill, i think he could manage one of the top teams, but not yet imo. There is a shortage of genuine world class managers in the world, we have one, the rest of the european footballing world knows that, we need to keep him and let him finish his 5 year plan, at the end of the 5 years, i would then review the situation.

I dont think hell reach it because we seem to be going one step forward two steps back. He spent a hell of a lot. Yet it seems Man City,Villa and Everton are competing with us. Clubs who are alot smaller than liverpool.

And to say you wouldnt see the european clubs banging on o neills door is a stupid statemeant. Would liverpool of been banging on Mancinis door before he took over at inter? Of course not. O neill is in the elites in England. Just because he hasnt got far in europe is simply down to the fact he hasnt had a big enough club to really challenge.

What are you trying to say? Untill the day comes millan want him hes going to be stuck with Villa?

Mr Alan wrote: »

Real liverpool fan yearning for title challenge? i agree.

Real liverpool fan yearning for Rafa to get the sack, i disagree totally. Rafa arrived at our club with a 5 year plan, in his first year he won the CL and brought us to another final. He deserves his 5 years for that alone. Do you not hear Anfield tonight? Liverpool fans want him to stay. you are in the major major major minority, and no offence but a season ticket holder local lad should have more say than me or you.

Why should a season ticket holder have more of a say?If i lived in liverpool I guarntee id try to get hold of a season ticket. Because of my locale I dont have the right to vent my feelings? Even though their 100% passion for the club ive loved and supported all my life?

I guarntee you if these american owners had kept their mouths shut and behind the scenes were kept quite people would be calling for benitez's head. The only reason people are standing by benitez is because these american fools have treated benitez with total disrespect.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yea,i have, have you seen his seen his record in the league in Spain? Or in Europe? its fantasic.

Yeah his fantastic record in spain is certainly going to have us challenging for the league. What a pointless claim you made right there....

Mezcita

I like you Mr. Alan. You make me laff!!!

Take off those blinkers. The league table does not lie.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

But with a key change in how they play. They sold Henry. United did the same thing, they sold Ruud. Chelsea did the same thing for the negative, they started playing 4-4-2 and sold Duff and eventually Robben. What change is Rafa gona make? He hasn't shown he's willing to make any changes to how Liverpool play.

He is has been able to make one signing that is on a par with the cost or goal scoring ability of those strikers and it has been a resounding success. Once again, you of all people know the calibre of players that he has been trying to sign since he joined the club but has been hampered for many reasons. Who or what exactly he has planned for on the pitch is anyones guess.

United and Arsenal fans alike were dreading the sale of both players while competing fans were delighted with themselves. No doubt you will claim that you were glad that RVN was sold for footballing reasons.

As for no been willing to show that he is willing to make changes to how they play, I disagree completely. This season, they have gone from being a predominantly defensive team to an attacking team. This is reflected in the number of goals they have scored this season when compared to last.

Unfortunately, it is also reflected in the number of goals we have conceeded. Saying that though, it wouldn't surprise me if the number of goals that we conceeded as a direct result of shocking defensive errors, penalties and own goals outweighed those that were scored against us through the ingenuity of the opposition. Typically, that point is going to be jumped on but I am not using it as an excuse. It is just unfortunate that we are partly responsible for our own downfall and the sheer number of defensive errors cannot be ignored when analysing the season so far. Wondering whether the situation would have been the same is Agger had of remain fit is also unavoidable. The fact remains that while he was fit for the opening 6 games of the season, we conceeded no goals from open play with the only 2 goals that we conceeded being from penalties.

I am still confident that we will finish in the top 4 and I am hopeful that we can still catch Chelsea in 3rd place.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

Last years side was a VERY young side. Liverpool's isn't old but it isn't particularly young either.

The side that was stumbling along a year ago was still stumbling along 6 months ago and still required a dose of the runs for the Spurs side to get 4th place on the last day of the season. The same Arsenal team, that aged 3 or 4 months come September and a few more since then has been playing exceptionally well with a similar system and very similar players. In fact, the problems that blighted Arsenal's season last season, i.e. over passing the ball and being susceptible to being kicked around the shope, are still very visible now and again and have reared their ugly head quite a bit in the past 8 weeks.

Sometimes a manager has a plan and just needs time and 1, 2 or 3 personnel changes for it all to come together. Arsene Wenger was afforded that time by both the supporters and the club and they are reaping the awards. In the 03/04 season, Arsenal finished on 90 points and won the league. In 04/05, the finished on 83 points in 2nd place and the two subsequent seasons, finished on 67 and 68 ponts respectively and 4th placei n both years. That is quite a significant drop in the space of 2 seasons and poor showings were the case for 2 whole seasons.

The main difference this season is that the ball is going into the net a bit more this season compared to the previous seasons. It is not through them playing particularly better or differently. It is not due to having a massively improved squad either. Sometimes there are a number of small things that don't come off a few times each season that makes the difference between a successful or poor season.

OPENROAD

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=1787979&rid=2875&S=70f4acad3cc9dddb17977c818d787d96

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

It might, but Rafa just bought Yossi, so what makes you think that he's gona change the system?

I have posted regarding Liverpool's system before on this thread and I am pretty sure that you agreed with me. I don't have the patience to search through the thread now but I am confident you will remember it.

I talked about how I feel Rafa is signing a groud of players that will allow the team to easily switch between two clear cut systems 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 that can be altered further by choosing wingers that constantly hug the line or using wide players that tend to drift inside. As things stand, Liverpool have the players that tend to drift infield and can play off a single striker and get you a handful or two goals(Yossi, Gerard and Babel) but have not got sufficient overall quality in terms of players that hug the touchline and whip in crosses.

Ironically enough, the only player that we have on the right that is reasonably adept at this this function has been injured for quite a while and is slowly regaining match fitness. We have Kewell on the left but he has been regaining match fitness for 3 years now.

So back to what I, and quite a few others, have been saying, we are still in need of 2 high quality wingers that can beat players and score some goals and can genuinely change a game. We also need an additional high quality stiker than can complement Torres who is currently over depended upon up front. What will make the difference between Liverpool continuing to trail United or Arsenal is about 10 goals a season. To achieve that, we need to put away the chances that we are clearly creating and the rest is down to a degree of good fortune.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Wondering whether the situation would have been the same is Agger had of remain fit is also unavoidable. The fact remains that while he was fit for the opening 6 games of the season, we conceeded no goals from open play with the only 2 goals that we conceeded being from penalties.

Just to address the counter arguments before they are made, Benitez was obviously aware of our defensive frailties in the eventuality of Carragher or Agger getting injured but was unable to secure the services of a player for cover during the summer for a multitude of reasons. That was addressed last week at the first oppurtunity.

smemon

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The main difference this season is that the ball is going into the net a bit more this season compared to the previous seasons. It is not through them playing particularly better or differently. It is not due to having a massively improved squad either. Sometimes there are a number of small things that don't come off a few times each season that makes the difference between a successful or poor season.

You're quite right, Arsenal are do-able and the main reason they are still knocking about at the top is because they got off to a good start and that gave them confidence.

Kick a child to the ground when he comes out to play and it'll knock him mentally. Let him get the ball, take you on and score soft goals and all of a sudden he gets a taste of success and glory and performance will improve.

Same applies to arsenal. They still don't have the steel to win the league imo, but they're punching above their weight or at 'max' capacity whereas the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool just haven't got going.

It gets boring trying to work out why liverpool can't compete in the league every year... instinct is to change the manager, but liverpool are too proud a club to cut throats unlike say Newcastle.

Benetiz cannot improve them anymore though imo, and his tactics are costing them big time. For once, they probably do have the players to give it a go in the league, but the squad is being rotated like the drum of a washing machine

OPENROAD

smemon wrote: »

Same applies to arsenal. They still don't have the steel to win the league imo, but they're punching above their weight or at 'max' capacity whereas the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool just haven't got going.

You obviously don't watch Arsenal much.

redspider

Not a good evening at the Anfield 'office' for Liverpool. I was surprised by the lack of ideas we had going forward. There were too many long hopeful balls forward and Torres does not like/does not head the ball. Also he doesnt like crosses coming in from the side which was another avenue attempted at times. He likes the ball to feet where he can face the defenders and run at them and hopefully have the room to do so. He got little opportunity to do so.

I felt the selection had too many weak players in it, 'weak' as in the likes of Kewell, Benayoun and Kuyt. This was a 6-pointer game, if Rafa and Liverpool fans dont realise it, we are now in a race for securing 4th place and Villa are in that race. This was an opportunity to create some daylight between us and them. A win was what was needed, and at 1-0 up we didnt close out the game as we should have, and its a pattern that has repeaetd all season long, and in previous seasons. Yeah, I know Rafa made the same observation but he needs to instill urgency in the players.

Babel showed it (ie: urgency) when he came on. Mascherano had it, Stevie G had it, and Carra had it (at the back). I had no complaints about Sami Hyypia either who did well. Kuyt was pretty bad in the match though. Kewell showed only a couple of glimpses and I just dont think we can have him in the team for must-win matches. he is not the worst of them though to be fair to him. Liverpools first goal was fortuitous for Benayoun who is a similarly light player and lost the ball quite a lot, albeit he also fought back for the ball as well.

To be fair to Liverpool, Villa were very fortuitous with their second goal. Their 1st was good but I would doubt if Harewood could do that one again in a hurry. It caught Carra by surprise. Babel did well when he came on, but the team were not creating that many chances I thought. The point for the draw was well deserved overall in terms of the match, but at the same time, Liverpool will be well relieved to get it. At 1-2 down, Villa had a great chance to kill off the game.

Although the shortcomings in the game are a single match and hence a snapshot, they are indicative of the problems the club/team/squad has as a whole throughout the season:

- The teams put out by Rafa do not have consistency of players, attacking options, etc.
- the best 11 players (ie: 1st team) are not strong enough and dont get a chance to play together often enough

I'm now pinning my hopes on (this season):
- finish 4th in the league
- as far in the CL as possible (Inter Milan are 'passable')
- a run in the FA Cup
- new owners as in DIC - we need stability

Redspider

kryogen

Unearthly wrote: »

They could win it which gets them in it. You would be a brave man to say they can't with Benitez's record in Europe.

LIVERPOOL WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THIS SEASON..
there, i said it, am i brave? no, just realistic, feel free to quote me and taunt me to death if you do win it, i stand by the statement. ye will not win the champions league........

if ye win the champ league ill go to my local wearing a pool jersey with gerrard on the back

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

My friend, off field is looking a thousand times worse than on field.



thought Kuyt was decent tonight, he showed real class with his pass for the goal. Kewell, was do you suppose Rafa do? Sell an injured player? no one has wanted him the last 2 years, and when he stays fit he is among our better attacking players. Aurelio, anytime he has stayed fit i thought has been excellent.Arbeloa has been one of our best players this year, both at right and left full.







wat about FA cup 06? wat about Athens 07?



Yea, wat have they done? Rafa has an FA cup and Champions League as well as another Champions League final. And they've done....**** all.

they have done nothing,In fact, neither side could beat us this year (even when we are in turmoil and ****e form they cant beat us, city threw 11 men behind the ball at home in order to hang onto a point and we beat Villa away.... so wat have they dont thats so amazing?



Granted we got the Champions League?! its hardly a ****ing mickey mouse cup mate! Either is the FA cup! The great Manchester Utd have only won it twice, we've been in two finals in three year, winning one!




I like o'neill, but i have zero idea why you think he is more qualified than Rafa?!

well according to you, liverpool have far superior first 11's and far superior squads then those two team yet those managers have managed to take points off you, thats an achoevement if they are so poor in comparison is it not? MON is a proven talented manager, scottish prem league/cup, fa cup blah blah blah, records and achievements are history, rafa has his, martin has his, id love o neill to take over from fergie, he is a natural born winner..... i think if he was in the helm at liverpool you would be alot mroe successful, he has turned villa into a difficult team to play hasnt he? dont you think he could do better with better players? as supposedly, liverpool have?

Dont be at yourself

LIVERPOOL WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THIS SEASON..
there, i said it, am i brave? no, just realistic, feel free to quote me and taunt me to death if you do win it, i stand by the statement. ye will not win the champions league........

if ye win the champ league ill go to my local wearing a pool jersey with gerrard on the back

That's just as ridiculous as saying Liverpool will definitely win the Champions League this year.

Nobody can say with any certainty that we will or wont win the Champions League. In our favour is the squad's experience at going all the way (2 finals in 3 years), Rafa's undoubted tactical nouse in Europe, the atmosphere of European nights at Anfield. Against us is the tourmoil that the club is in, our shocking recent form on the pitch and our draw against, on paper, one of the strongest teams in the competition.

Still, it's easy to make ridiculous predictions on internet bulletin boards to rile people, knowing full well that come May, nobody is actually going to call you on it if Liverpool do lift the trophy. Why not go down to PP and stick 100 euro on it?

kryogen

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's just as ridiculous as saying Liverpool will definitely win the Champions League this year.

Nobody can say with any certainty that we will or wont win the Champions League. In our favour is the squad's experience at going all the way (2 finals in 3 years), Rafa's undoubted tactical nouse in Europe, the atmosphere of European nights at Anfield. Against us is the tourmoil that the club is in, our shocking recent form on the pitch and our draw against, on paper, one of the strongest teams in the competition.

Still, it's easy to make ridiculous predictions on internet bulletin boards to rile people, knowing full well that come May, nobody is actually going to call you on it if Liverpool do lift the trophy. Why not go down to PP and stick 100 euro on it?

already done technically, ive lay'd ye on betfair, dont think ye have a hope, anyone here wants to back liverpool to win the champ league let me know, im still accepting bets, and tbh i think its more ridiculous to say they will win it, in fairness there is a bigger chance they wont for obvious reasons, in betting terms you have much more chances that liverpool wont win it then they will

its not to rile people, its an opinion,just like the guy i quoted had his opinion by showing that he believed it is highly wrong to write liverpool off, my opinion is that is is an easy assumption to write pool off, and a smart one... if opinions rile you so much maybe you shouldnt be a mod?

oh and before i forget

redspider wrote: »

Babel showed it (ie: urgency) when he came on. Mascherano had it, Stevie G had it, and Carra had it (at the back). I had no complaints about Sami Hyypia either who did well. Kuyt was pretty bad in the match though. Kewell showed only a couple of glimpses and I just dont think we can have him in the
Redspider

i assume your taking the piss?

gerrard had a very poor game by his own standards,

the league table never lies

liverpool have shown nothing to suggest they can win the champions league this season anymore then lyon have, but i bet most pool fans think liverpool have a better chance then them

as i said, if people want to back liverpool with me let me know, im happily giving odds

(a i allowed to say that here?) apologies if not

jesus_thats_gre

kryogen wrote: »

[/B]
the league table never lies

Indeed it does not.. I assume it didn't lie after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ,8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 or 21 games that Liverpool played either.. Nor is the table 22 games of the season any way indicitive of what the table will appear to be after 38 games.

While games in hand are not exactly an advantage to the club that has them.. Playing a game extra certainly is an advantage.. See how things pan out sure.



As for the argument as to whether LFC will win the CL.. I would prefer not to make any predictions on the matter. Getting to 2 finals in 3 years with a worse squad indicates that we can do it again. I also feel that the overall quality of opposition in Europe is less than that of previous years and the balance has shifted even more in the favour on PL clubs. I wouldn't have any problems suggesting that a PL will at least get to the final and probably win it.. The currently Liverpool squad and manager are considerably more experienced and proven when it comes to doing and as such, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we were to get their again. Nor would I not be shocked if we didn't.

Unearthly

The league table DOES lie till it's finished. Every team has to be on a level playing field with the same amount of games, and playing the same team. Plus teams might not of had their bad run of form yet etc

zing

kryogen wrote: »

if ye win the champ league ill go to my local wearing a pool jersey with gerrard on the back

Might be easier to just get his name on the back.

Cyrus

just wondering after watching that last night does anyone else believe its criminal to have yossi and kewell playing and alonso and babel on the bench

our midefield (and ive always said this) has to be babel masch alsonso Gerrard

i dont care if he doesnt like playing on the right, at this moment in time that is our best midfield and our only hope of securing fourth spot and finishing within 10 points of the winners

jank

Its like groundhog day here!!

Same old story every year but the fact is that liverpool will NOT win the league this year. Hell they wont even challenge for the title. When was the last time that liverpool mounted a credable title challenge? Rafa will NOT deliver Liverpool a league title. Not this year or the next!

Regarding the CL, liverpool have a nack of doing the unexpected in this competition, but Inter i think will be a step to far. Id even go as far to say that they are due a drubing by one of the bigger teams and Inter may be the one to give it to them. Then again they may win the whole thing and ill get a PM from Jesus_thats_great 5 seconds after the final whistle saying "hahaha your soooo wrong!!!" :rolleyes::D

Regarding the whole Yanks vs DIC, Liverpool fans are much too eager to sell their souls to the devil for success!

Chardee MacDennis

i dont think a team aiming for the league should have Kuyt, Yossi, or Kewell in a tarting line up.

we have a squad that should be doing well and getting results, either this off the field business is screwing everything up or it's the tactics. The most frustrating thing is we always seem to have enough of the ball but we dont take our chances.

i am losing a little faith in Rafa but i wont make any judgement till 5/6 games after the future of the club is secured. But challenging for 4th place at the moment is totally unacceptable for Liverpool no matter how well we get on in the cups and the fact that their could be a top 6/7 in the Prem soon worries me if we cant secure CL football without too muhc hassle.

What scares me is if Rafa leaves who goes with him? I have heard that Alonso, Masch, Torres and Reina for starters. Gerrard could go along with any of the younsgters he has signed, who knows? And then who do we replace him with thats not gonna take 5 years to win a league.

At the moment I almost think 1 more year if we qualify for europe, gone if we dont. But i am in two minds over the whole thing.

And we thought this would be a great season, sigh....

kida

jank wrote: »

Its like groundhog day here!!

Same old story every year but the fact is that liverpool will NOT win the league this year. Hell they wont even challenge for the title. When was the last time that liverpool mounted a credable title challenge? Rafa will NOT deliver Liverpool a league title. Not this year or the next!

Regarding the CL, liverpool have a nack of doing the unexpected in this competition, but Inter i think will be a step to far. Id even go as far to say that they are due a drubing by one of the bigger teams and Inter may be the one to give it to them. Then again they may win the whole thing and ill get a PM from Jesus_thats_great 5 seconds after the final whistle saying "hahaha your soooo wrong!!!" :rolleyes::D

Regarding the whole Yanks vs DIC, Liverpool fans are much too eager to sell their souls to the devil for success!

So true - but be prepared to be attacked. Very few Liverpool fans can actually see what is happening, there are a few but few and far between.

jank

kida wrote: »

So true - but be prepared to be attacked. Very few Liverpool fans can actually see what is happening, there are a few but few and far between.

It's like the Massi Mara in here sometimes

kida

jank wrote: »

It's like the Massi Mara in here sometimes

most of them want to blame the yanks are blinkered to the fact thats it actually the managers fault.

Helix

said it on another forum earlier today, the only reason there arent more people calling for rafas head at the moment is because hes turned into something of a cult martyr in light of the yanks thing

prendy

ok few things from last night.
1)sammi was IMO our best player...i love carra but hyppia is 500 times better on the ball and doesnt just hoof it up the pitch. hopefully the new lad is similarly good on the ball...
2)kuyt is NOT a striker...yes hes a good worker but we paid decent money for a striker who cant score?????
3)yossi is like a bad garcia...he gives the ball away more and doesnt score as much.
4)kewell doesnt look interested at all. i thaught he was very poor bar 20 min spell.
5) we have to sign masscarano.
6) 2 decent wingers and a striker aswell
7) the club is at its lowest point in a long time with off field uncertainty and on field dismal displays(i know we played well last night but losing 2 soft goals is poor)

the league table doesnt lie and were where we are for a reason..poor performances.add to that the fact we are away to the big 3 and we have problems getting 4th.
the fact is were a long way off aresenal manu and chelsea and i have seen f**k all to tell me otherwise lately.

Helix

isnt that the managers fault tho?

flanzer

If the yanks are to sell up, at least they could do is give Rafa the bullet before they leave, to redeem themselves somewhat. Rafa's never going to win the Premiership with the negative football they play. I don't know how many times last night the ball was passed around the box without anyone shooting. I think Gerrard saying last night that what's happening off the pitch is affecting the players is a smoke screen for the shíte that happening on the pitch and the coaching field. The Glazier takeover didn't affect the Man U players last season and the fact of the matter is that the current players don't cut the mustard to win the Premiership and that's the sad fact.

Rafa doesn't have what is take to motivate his players week in week out like Mourinho, Fergy and Wenger. Once off matches like the CL and FA cup he does, and does it well.

prendy

i like rafa but ya i do think he has to shoulder some of the blame as does the players because ultimately it is them who get the results.
the boardroom hasnt helped tho.


flanzer didnt chelsea win it playing "negative" or defensive football?

_blank_

Helix wrote: »

isnt that the managers fault tho?

Course not, he won the CL and got to another final, don't you know.

spockety

Helix wrote: »

said it on another forum earlier today, the only reason there arent more people calling for rafas head at the moment is because hes turned into something of a cult martyr in light of the yanks thing

That is simply not true.

Rafa Benitez has had many sungs song about him in the last four years at Anfield. They have been sung consistently by match going fans, no matter how well, or how bad the team is doing.

I saw someone saying earlier that Rafa and the team had been booed off the pitch on a couple of ocassions this season. That is not true.. I'm sure the team's performances have been booed, but no way was it aimed at Rafa.

The blood spitting anti-Rafa's might not like it, but the fact is that Rafa retains, and continues to retain the support of the vast majority of match going Liverpool fans. You might think that is illogical based on how you view his management style or how his teams are set out, but you at the very least have to accept it, because it is a fact.

Rafa Benitez has become a cult figure alright, but it has nothing to do with martyrdom. It is because of the trips to Istanbul, to Cardiff, to Athens. It is because of how he carries himself, and his understanding of Liverpool traditions. You could almost believe he had been brought up in the boot room if you didn't know it wasn't true. It is because of his burning desire for success, for Liverpool to be successful. It is because of his rebuffs to his beloved Real Madrid in favour of continuing his project at Liverpool and his relationship with his fans. It is because of the good buys, not the bad. It is because of Reina, our longest record of clean sheets, our highest points total in the league, because of the master Alonso, the clinical Torres, the monster Mascherano, the great dane Agger. It is because he gave Djimi Traore a Champions League medal. It is because of his victorious european battles with Jose Mourinho.

And now, it is because he is perceived as having "smoked them out". That is only the last in a long list of reasons why Rafa's name is sung at every match.

jank

DesF wrote: »

Course not, he won the CL and got to another final, don't you know.

The sun shines out of his spannish arse too!!!:D

Savman

DesF = closet scouse.

machiavellianme

DesF wrote: »

Course not, he won the CL and got to another final, don't you know.

Finals count for nothing if you dont win them.
If we axed Rafa now, whoever takes over would have a decent chance to evaluate the players and realise Kuyt, Voronin, Momo, Yossi, Pennant, Aurelio, Riise and Kewell need to go (as much as I like Harry). Thats at least 8 unreliable players that either offer little or are persistently injured and yet contantly make the starting line up under Rafa when theres better available in the reserves.

kida

spockety wrote: »

I saw someone saying earlier that Rafa and the team had been booed off the pitch on a couple of ocassions this season. That is not true.. I'm sure the team's performances have been booed, but no way was it aimed at Rafa.

He manages the team - the team is booed - he is booed

Mr Alan

spockety wrote: »

That is simply not true.

Rafa Benitez has had many sungs song about him in the last four years at Anfield. They have been sung consistently by match going fans, no matter how well, or how bad the team is doing.

I saw someone saying earlier that Rafa and the team had been booed off the pitch on a couple of ocassions this season. That is not true.. I'm sure the team's performances have been booed, but no way was it aimed at Rafa.

The blood spitting anti-Rafa's might not like it, but the fact is that Rafa retains, and continues to retain the support of the vast majority of match going Liverpool fans. You might think that is illogical based on how you view his management style or how his teams are set out, but you at the very least have to accept it, because it is a fact.

Rafa Benitez has become a cult figure alright, but it has nothing to do with martyrdom. It is because of the trips to Istanbul, to Cardiff, to Athens. It is because of how he carries himself, and his understanding of Liverpool traditions. You could almost believe he had been brought up in the boot room if you didn't know it wasn't true. It is because of his burning desire for success, for Liverpool to be successful. It is because of his rebuffs to his beloved Real Madrid in favour of continuing his project at Liverpool and his relationship with his fans. It is because of the good buys, not the bad. It is because of Reina, our longest record of clean sheets, our highest points total in the league, because of the master Alonso, the clinical Torres, the monster Mascherano, the great dane Agger. It is because he gave Djimi Traore a Champions League medal. It is because of his victorious european battles with Jose Mourinho.

And now, it is because he is perceived as having "smoked them out". That is only the last in a long list of reasons why Rafa's name is sung at every match.

Thats the best ****ing post i've ever read on this site.

Superb.

zing

kida wrote: »

most of them want to blame the yanks are blinkered to the fact thats it actually the managers fault.

Helix wrote: »

said it on another forum earlier today, the only reason there arent more people calling for rafas head at the moment is because hes turned into something of a cult martyr in light of the yanks thing

Believe it or not most of us are capable of distinguishing between the problems on the pitch and the problems off the pitch and who is responsible for each. I know you guys love to come in here and remind us all but we do get it all by ourselves. But we appreciate your efforts none the less.

The reality is that the problems on & off the pitch are feeding each other but to most at this point in time the problems off the field are far far more important than whether Rafa gets the boot or not and whether it's now or 6 months down the road. 6 months is nothing considering what's at stake with the off the field issues.

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

DesF = closet scouse.

:eek:

After that comment, you are lucky we are short on players tonight.

Cyrus

it seems arsenal and united fans are getting great pleasure out of this,

i wonder how they will feel if liverpool say won the fa cup or cl and finished fourth and they win nothing and finished second? which is preferable?

Villain

I thought the Liverpool fans wanted to win the Premier League though, the Champions league is a great trophy to win but after 19 years without a league title I would have thought Englands most successful club would want the Premier League and I think its obvious Rafa isn't going to win the PL.

machiavellianme

Bah, Momo's had songs sung about him for years, he's even in the Best midfield in the world chant but that doesnt make him the best midfielder in the world. He's not even in the top 5 at his club. Songs count for nothing.

Helix

spockety wrote: »

It is because of Reina, our longest record of clean sheets, our highest points total in the league, because of the master Alonso, the clinical Torres, the monster Mascherano, the great dane Agger

yet with all those players he cant do anything with them in the league

thats a damning indictment blatantly obvious to anyone whos not a liverpool fan

evil_seed

some banners from the match lastnight http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/videos-pictures/pictures-of-liverpool/liverpool-fc-photos/2008/01/21/liverpool-fc-fans-show-rafa-support-in-banners-64375-20377497/

Mr Alan

That is bollox, the song for Rafa is completely and utterly about the match-going fans telling the world they want Rafa and no one else.

As is the other one last night;

"you dont care about Rafa,
You dont care about fans,
Liverpool football club,
is in the wrong hands"

I agree Liverpool should be aiming to challenge for the league. But in the mean time, a major cup every year/second year will do me until Rafa has built a team that is ready. Rome (or manchester) wasnt built in a day. Rafa is 3 years into a 5 year plan. After 5 years, pass judgement on Rafa and his "plan"

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree Liverpool should be aiming to challenge for the league. But in the mean time, a major cup every year/second year will do me until Rafa has built a team that is ready. Rome (or manchester) wasnt built in a day. Rafa is 3 years into a 5 year plan. After 5 years, pass judgement on Rafa and his "plan"

thats utter utter rubbish

look at the team he has and tell me that its anything other than bad management that has them where they are in the league right now

Mitch Connor

Cyrus wrote: »

it seems arsenal and united fans are getting great pleasure out of this,

i wonder how they will feel if liverpool say won the fa cup or cl and finished fourth and they win nothing and finished second? which is preferable?

yeah - well what if united won the treble again and liverpool went into administration, didn't win or draw another game all season and got reegatd? Huh, what IF that happens?

Just as relevent as your question, btw.

Anyway, its not just the poor performances I am enjoying, it is the board room stuff - after all teh gloating USA chants United recieved off your lot when we sold to an American (which we actually tried to stop...) cause of course Liverpool would never sell out like that. Then the gloating chants of USA when Liverpool actually did sell out, happily, to two Yanks cause you all though you had hit the jackpot, and now you want to sell out again cause you'r not happy with how selling out the last time worked out.

zing

Lots of reports over the last couple of days suggesting the current financial mess is affecting G&H's plans.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/01/22/trouble-hits-reds-plans-for-huge-loan-100252-20378930/

Mr Alan

jank wrote: »

Regarding the CL, liverpool have a nack of doing the unexpected in this competition, but Inter i think will be a step to far. Id even go as far to say that they are due a drubing by one of the bigger teams and Inter may be the one to give it to them.

Would you not have said the same about Chelsea (twice), Juventus, Barca, Milan?

Watever about the PL, Liverpool, and Rafa in Europe deserve nothing but respect.

kida

Helix wrote: »

thats utter utter rubbish

look at the team he has and tell me that its anything other than bad management that has them where they are in the league right now

I agree he got the money he wanted during the summer. Rumours etc only started flying once the team started not getting results, whose fault was it they didn't get the results?