Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Chardee MacDennis

a lot of people around these boards must slightly retarded.

In 2003 Liverpool finished in 4th on 60 points and United finished in 3rd with 75 points (15 behind Arsenal and 4 behind Chelsea)

Ged left and Rafa took then over...

Since then Benitez has a net spend of 8.5m more than Ferguson (obviously we don't know the accuracy of these figures but its a best guess)

Now to challenge for the league and improve our team to that standard, we need to spend MORE than United and especially since United have been building on solid championship winning team for the previous 12/13 years.

Do you really think spending 8m more on team that finished 15 points behind is really going to close that gap?

Also Chelsea earned 16 points more the next season after spending 50m more than United that summer. I think that shows the figures we're talking about here if we really want to win the league.

Surely this shows that Rafa hasn't had as much as he needs to spend, while i don't think we need to outspend United by 50m a season to win a league - we do need to spending more then we are already.

Also I haven't talked much about Arsenal as they are a product of an amazing Youth System which Wenger has spent 8 years putting together. Something I hope we experience in a few years since Rafa has completely turned around our youth system!

I broke it into nice small paragraphs so the idiots who keep going on about how much Rafa has spent will not be put off. Oh I also put the important stuff in bold so it's matches the style of the rags you obviously read....

EDIT: Just thought I would throw this in

While sole manager at liverpool, Houllier had an average points per game of 1.45, Rafa's has been 1.8. Fergie's since 2004 has been 2.2. Speaks for itself really, in a better position then before but a lot more work to do.

Villain

LOL I knew United fan boys would like that one, its ok I get my kicks from watching him take them with my mates that are United fans they go mad every time he steps up because they know ist going to hit the wall. Actually one of them was delighted Hargreaves took one last week, but hey don't let the fact that he hits the wall more than free kick taker get you down.

Gerrard's free kick against was a lesson to Ronaldo oh and for who ever asked about Villa and free kicks look at the stats. Gerrard is one of the best strikers of a ball saying anything otherwise been deluded.

Nailz

I agree with you there Al, but Rafa still gets lots and lots of money to use - not enough to build a league, but still plenty... The problem I have with your point is that with the money he does have, he wasted it on mid-table players like Pennent, Zenden, Vorinin & Kuyt... not good enough for you lot IMO. And you still have that over-rated wasteful hipocrit that is Steven Gerrard, Liverpool would be alot better with a well formed midfielder in his place... and thats a fact!

Chardee MacDennis

Nailz wrote: »

I agree with you there Al, but Rafa still gets lots and lots of money to use - not enough to build a league, but still plenty... The problem I have with your point is that with the money he does have, he wasted it on mid-table players like Pennent, Zenden, Vorinin & Kuyt... not good enough for you lot IMO. And you still have that over-rated wasteful hipocrit that is Steven Gerrard, Liverpool would be alot better with a well formed midfielder in his place... and thats a fact!

OK you have 22million (1/4 of Rafas net spend over 4 years) to spend and 4 positions to fill, now you have two choices you could sell 4 of the crap players playing there right now and have 30m to spend and replace those four 2m pound players with four 7.5m pound players who are good enough to ensure a top 4 finish.

OR you could buy one top class player and not sell the four 2m pound players but you wouldn't be able to guarantee that they are good enough to ensure a top 4 place and therefore might lose your job considering your predecessor was fired for finishing 4th...

What would you do?

Now United have been in the position where if they buy that one top class player they can still challenge the next season due to the quality and depth of the squad - Liverpool have not been in the position since Dalglish was managing.

Melion

Nailz wrote: »

I agree with you there Al, but Rafa still gets lots and lots of money to use - not enough to build a league, but still plenty... The problem I have with your point is that with the money he does have, he wasted it on mid-table players like Pennent, Zenden, Vorinin & Kuyt... not good enough for you lot IMO. And you still have that over-rated wasteful hipocrit that is Steven Gerrard, Liverpool would be alot better with a well formed midfielder in his place... and thats a fact!

Its not a fact, its an opinion and its a load of shíte.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Be careful al. talking sense ,may just wind them up

Chardee MacDennis

Nailz wrote: »

And you still have that over-rated wasteful hipocrit that is Steven Gerrard, Liverpool would be alot better with a well formed midfielder in his place... and thats a fact!

Well you should tell the writers of L'Equipe who have him as one of the 11 best players in the world at the moment. Anyone who doesn't rate Steven Gerrard or thinks Liverpool would be better without him isn't the full shilling.

Kimbot

Nailz wrote: »

I agree with you there Al, but Rafa still gets lots and lots of money to use - not enough to build a league, but still plenty... The problem I have with your point is that with the money he does have, he wasted it on mid-table players like Pennent, Zenden, Vorinin & Kuyt... not good enough for you lot IMO. And you still have that over-rated wasteful hipocrit that is Steven Gerrard, Liverpool would be alot better with a well formed midfielder in his place... and thats a fact!

Zenden and Vorinin were free and there as stop gaps until the money is there to buy a decent player for those positions.

Nailz

Xavi Alonso... theirs your player, you lot just can't see it... Check up his pass completion % and his shot conversion % and there lies your answer. Liverpool have great potential and could do great things, but not with a wasteful player like him in you starting 11...

cson

Nailz wrote: »

Xavi Alonso... theirs your player, you lot just can't see it... Check up his pass completion % and his shot conversion % and there lies your answer. Liverpool have great potential and could do great things, but not with a wasteful player like him in you starting 11...

Where can I purchase the substances that you're on?

Chardee MacDennis

One last stat in Fergies first 4 years he had an average of 1.49 points a game, 0.3 less than Rafa at the same stage.

Nailz

cson wrote: »

Where can I purchase the substances that you're on?

You can't purchase common sence mate...

Call_me_al wrote: »

One last stat in Fergies first 4 years he had an average of 1.49 points a game, 0.3 less than Rafa at the same stage.

And yet we can still win the League while getting less points then you??? Well thats great! :rolleyes:

Tusky

Nothing to do with Liverpool but...Heath Ledger found dead. Shocking

Chardee MacDennis

Nailz wrote: »

And yet we can still win the League while getting less points then you??? Well thats great! :rolleyes:

no united didnt win the league in Fergies first 6 years, i suppose you wouldnt know that as you probably started supporting United in May 1992 or was it May 1993....

One of those years with all the glory hunters anyway....

Melion

Nailz wrote: »

Xavi Alonso... theirs your player, you lot just can't see it... Check up his pass completion % and his shot conversion % and there lies your answer. Liverpool have great potential and could do great things, but not with a wasteful player like him in you starting 11...

So we're only allowed have 1 world class midfielder?

Melion

Call_me_al wrote: »

One last stat in Fergies first 4 years he had an average of 1.49 points a game, 0.3 less than Rafa at the same stage.

It was 2 points for a win back then though

RE*AC*TOR

I'm intrigued as to why so many non-liverpool fans are this emotive on the subject.

If I were were a manu fan that felt that Benitez would never take Liverpool anywhere, I wouldn't be arguing a case for his dismissal. I guess 2 CL finals in 3 years makes you a big target.

Either way its safe to say the team are underperfroming at the moment. Should we be doing better with the players we have at the moment - I believe so. Is Benitez the man to steer us in the right direction - I believe so.

cson

Nailz wrote: »

You can't purchase common sence mate...

Evidently not.

Chardee MacDennis

Melion wrote: »

It was 2 points for a win back then though

no it wasnt..... so in 1987 United manged to get 81 points from 40 games and still not win the league, wow must have been amazingly good year for liverpool that year...

it changed in 81/82

Tusky

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

I'm intrigued as to why so many non-liverpool fans are this emotive on the subject.

If I were were a manu fan that felt that Benitez would never take Liverpool anywhere, I wouldn't be arguing a case for his dismissal. I guess 2 CL finals in 3 years makes you a big target.

Either way its safe to say the team are underperfroming at the moment. Should we be doing better with the players we have at the moment - I believe so. Is Benitez the man to steer us in the right direction - I believe so.

I dont understand this either. This thread seems to have more angry fans of clubs other than Liverpool, than actual Liverpool fans. What are they so angry about... ? Ive stopped discussing it with them as its the same arguments over and over.

Nailz

Sorry didn't notice first four years... We had a team on the verge of relegation before Fergie took over, which means we didn't have an excellent squad and Rafa took over a 4th place team...

Chardee MacDennis

Nailz wrote: »

Sorry didn't notice first four years... We had a team on the verge of relegation before Fergie took over, which means we didn't have an excellent squad and Rafa took over a 4th place team... and a Melion says it was 2 points back then...

actually in his second year United finished on 81 points and came second then the next two seasons tallies were 51 and 48, so it seems like a very similar situation to Liverpool, the moral seems to be stick with it...

RE*AC*TOR I think its that they know we are on to something and have seen a chink in the armor so they are going for it!

RE*AC*TOR

Plus Benitez doesn't require a constant supply of baby blood to keep him going.

Chardee MacDennis

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

Plus Benitez doesn't require a constant supply of baby blood to keep him going.

LOL....

Nailz

And yet he is keeping up his old job of fat spanish waiter...

Chardee MacDennis

Nailz wrote: »

And yet he is keeping up his old job of fat spanish waiter...

thats EVIL fat spanish waiter since the goatee, oh MR. Evil Fat Spanish Waiter to you....

RE*AC*TOR

Nailz wrote: »

And yet he is keeping up his old job of fat spanish waiter...

You suck at the internet.

Nailz

He doesn't seem that evil to me, he's like a fat Spanish pussycat with a goatee. I'd rather get into a fight with him then Fergie! Fergie scares the shit outta' me! :eek:

cson

The internet is certainly becoming more accessible to primary school kids these days, and thats a fact. Net Nanny can't save you anymore.

Nailz

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

You suck at the internet.

How? This makes no contribution to anything... So explain this bullshit...

RE*AC*TOR

Nailz wrote: »

How? This makes no contribution to anything... So explain this bullshit...

Gladly.

Your "witty" retort was not witty. It made no sense, but not in a good way like a non-sequitur, but in a stupid way, like someone who finds their own jokes hilariously funny. The distinct impression I get from reading your posts is that they are not fully thought through.

Jazzy

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

Gladly.

Your "witty" retort was not witty. It made no sense, but not in a good way like a non-sequitur, but in a stupid way, like someone who finds their own jokes hilariously funny. The distinct impression I get from reading your posts is that they are not fully thought through.

now thats funny

Nailz

Okay than fair enough, I may take your post with a pinch of salt... that "witty retort" as you call it was not a joke, it is what a few United fans call you beloved Rafa... I've seen other forums and photos with this description of him on the internet. I never laugh at my own jokes, you should never do this because you look like a plank... Jimmy Carr does this very well may you note. And my jokes aren't that funny... I don't think so anyway, other may or may not. And may I point out I never post my own jokes... just `remarks`. And I do think fully about what I'm posting, obviously you didn't think that through. :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

Nailz wrote:

And yet he is keeping up his old job of fat spanish waiter...

? I dont get it....am I missing something? we're talking about the guy that managed Valencia right?

Im awful confused...*wanders off mumbling*

Macker1

joe123 wrote: »

Just look at the progress martin o neill and sven have done in a short space of time compared to what rafa has done. Never mind the silly little cups like the super cup and community shield because they dont matter.


Martin o Neill should be got on the phone and offered everything and anything to take the liverpool job.

Yes I'm sure Villa and City are loving all the trophies they are winning. :p

All due respect to both these clubs and their fans but the expectations at LFC are much higher than that of possible European finishes in the Premiership. Yes times are rough at the moment but fans need to keep faith that Rafa can turn the situation around. Yes the chance of winning the League has well and truly gone but a top four finish and good chance of winning Champions League is more than acceptable given the off-field issues surrounding the club this season.:)

Come on the Reds !!!!!:):):)

Nailz

Aw thats a shame... RE*AC*TOR has gone, I was looking forward to his next post. But c'mon lets get back to discussing Liverpool's problems.

~Rebel~

Nailz wrote:

And yet he is keeping up his old job of fat spanish waiter...

Nailz wrote:

it is what a few United fans call you beloved Rafa... I've seen other forums and photos with this description of him on the internet.

why? I dont get it...explain?

Nailz wrote:

But c'mon lets get back to discussing Liverpool's problems.

Sums up whats wrong with this thread at the moment.

Nailz

Okay then, this is were `Fat Spanish Waiter` comes from... Rafa is Fat, he's Spanish, and he has a goatee which is a stereotype for a fat spanish waiter... okay?

Chardee MacDennis

bbc.co.uk wrote:

Liverpool owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett believe they can complete a £350m refinancing deal by Thursday to secure their immediate Anfield future.

City observers said on Wednesday the package was under threat, with Dubai International Capital (DIC) waiting in the wings for a possible takeover.

But BBC Sport has learned the pair are convinced the deal is imminent.

The package is expected to help the American duo repay money borrowed for their £218.9m takeover in March 2007.

It was also used to sign players last summer, and will help finance work on a redesigned new stadium in Stanley Park.


606: DEBATE
What do you think of what is going on at Liverpool?

Hicks and Gillett were the target of crowd demonstrations from Liverpool supporters unhappy with their regime during Monday's televised game against Aston Villa, with banners calling for DIC to mount a bid for control.

But Hicks, in particular, has remained defiant in the face of protests and insisted he had no intention of selling his 50% share in the club.

"I've not received any offer to purchase the club from DIC or anyone else, much less accepted any such offer," Hicks said on Monday.

It remains to be seen whether DIC, the investment arm of the Dubai government, will now pull out of a proposed bid to take control at Anfield, with the refinancing package unlikely to clear all the clouds of uncertainty over the club.

Some City sources believe the new deal, and its interest payments, will only be a financial "sticking plaster" and DIC will wait to see if there are further problems for Hicks and Gillett while maintaining an interest in buying Liverpool.

Liverpool decided to sell to Hicks and Gillett instead of DIC in March 2007 but the American businessmen in particular Hicks, have been criticised for the way they have run the club.

Hicks admitted to talks last November with Jurgen Klinsmann about the German taking over from Rafael Benitez as manager.

The owners and Benitez have also had a very public spat after the Spaniard criticised their transfer policy.

If Hicks has cemented his position via the loan, Benitez's long-term prospects look bleak.

And Liverpool fans will be even more critical after an interview, first broadcast on the Major League Baseball website six months ago, was publicised by the British press on Wednesday.

"People are worried that I might take money away from the Texas Rangers [Hicks' baseball franchise] to go to Liverpool," Hicks said.

"But it is just the reverse. Liverpool is going to throw off lots of extra money which, if I choose to, I can use for the Rangers or the Dallas Stars ice hockey team."

apologies if posted already.

zing

Not sure if there's anything new in that article al - seems to be a rehash of what everyone else has printed

oobydooby

Nailz wrote: »

Sorry didn't notice first four years... We had a team on the verge of relegation before Fergie took over, which means we didn't have an excellent squad and Rafa took over a 4th place team...

IIRC your lads won the first ten matches one season, nearly matching an English record (one of the very few that don't belong to Liverpool) and then Big Ron was gone.

Tusky

Nailz wrote: »

Sorry didn't notice first four years... We had a team on the verge of relegation before Fergie took over, which means we didn't have an excellent squad and Rafa took over a 4th place team...

Err. Utd finished 4th the season before Ferguson took over.

~Rebel~

Nailz wrote:

Okay then, this is were `Fat Spanish Waiter` comes from... Rafa is Fat, he's Spanish, and he has a goatee which is a stereotype for a fat spanish waiter... okay?

huh. interesting. not clever, but interesting.

Also not sure of the relevance of it's use to this thread. Verging on personal insult i'd imagine.

Anywho, the guy (as has been shown numerous times here today) hasn't done as badly as some like to make out, and still has the full support of the red half of merseyside, so hopefully all this "people joining the debate to beat Rafa" thing will die down pretty soon.

Stky10

Tusky wrote: »

Err. Utd finished 4th the season before Ferguson took over.

Good god man, you're letting facts get in the way of some unknown ManU fans coming in here and rehashing month old arguments that have already been done to death.

Wonder what newbie it will be next month?

LuckyLloyd

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

I'm intrigued as to why so many non-liverpool fans are this emotive on the subject.

If I were were a manu fan that felt that Benitez would never take Liverpool anywhere, I wouldn't be arguing a case for his dismissal. I guess 2 CL finals in 3 years makes you a big target.

Either way its safe to say the team are underperfroming at the moment. Should we be doing better with the players we have at the moment - I believe so. Is Benitez the man to steer us in the right direction - I believe so.

Thank God. SENSE!!

Some of the stuff from fans of other clubs over the past few pages of this thread (and around the interweb on a general level infact) is severely perplexing. On the whole though, I think football lends itself to the most retarded, reactionary, illiterate and unreasonable amateur punditry going.

Results are below expectations. The title is now beyond us. There is still stuff to play for this year though.

Benitez was originally signed for a period of five years. We have been a consistently better side under his tenure than under any manager since Dalglish. I would be furious if he was sacked. I will be furious if he doesn't get the resources he feels are neccesary to take the club forward.

People should read the posts by cal_me_al and JTG. The stats cut through the nonsense and show that progress has been made. Yeah, there are ways to go - but anything worth doing requires time and patience.

jesus_thats_gre

Nailz wrote: »

Xavi Alonso... theirs your player, you lot just can't see it... Check up his pass completion % and his shot conversion % and there lies your answer. Liverpool have great potential and could do great things, but not with a wasteful player like him in you starting 11...

Lol, he has been injured for the majority of the season and is slowly regaining match fitness. He was rushed back against Arsenal and suffered a re-occurrence of the injury. As such, there is no point in him being rushed back.

Also, he has been at Liverpool 3 full season and played 148 games in total. Tis nearly 50 games a season. I don't think he could me anymore involved if he wanted to.

No offence like, but when simple facts alone can be used to dismiss your points, you can't help but wonder.

jesus_thats_gre

WTF?

And Liverpool fans will be even more critical after an interview, first broadcast on the Major League Baseball website six months ago, was publicised by the British press on Wednesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7203724.stm

"People are worried that I might take money away from the Texas Rangers [Hicks' baseball franchise] to go to Liverpool," Hicks said.

"But it is just the reverse. Liverpool is going to throw off lots of extra money which, if I choose to, I can use for the Rangers or the Dallas Stars ice hockey team."

Tusky

Yup, its old news. Has been posted a couple of times. Heartbreaking stuff.

Jazzy

does that mean i wont get my wingers?

zing

He was probably just saying what the Rangers/Stars fans wanted to hear. Given the debt levels involved and repayments to get to the new stadium there's little chance of him being able to take much money out of the club for quite some time.

Just another example of needing to STFU