Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Guy:Incognito

Call_me_al wrote: »

DIC are still interested and Gillet has disappeared.
.

Are you suggesting that DIC or Hicks have had Gillet killed?

The Hicks interview just semms too good. It looks like he's just saying what people want to hear.

Guy:Incognito

Just thought , is there a 10,000 post limit on this thread like the last one? cos we're not even at the end of January and we'll probably hit 10k posts in the next couple of days.

mike65

That matter was mentoned about 200 posts back!

Mike.

Kimbot

mike65 wrote: »

That matter was mentoned about 200 posts back!

Mike.

Remember Mike alot of people aren't bothered looking back through the thread.

Guy:Incognito

yeah, have a heart, its a long thread and I've been away for the weekend.

Kimbot

Stekelly wrote: »

yeah, have a heart, its a long thread and I've been away for the weekend.

Maybe its for the best if you don't try crawl back through it mate. There is some amount of rubbish in the last few pages.

mike65

The sub-commitee (Thread Management 2007-08) has not indicated closure before the end of the season.

Mike.

DaBreno

mike65 wrote: »

That matter was mentoned about 200 posts back!

Mike.

Thats probably 10am this morning at the rate we are going. Im predicting 10k posts sometime on Tuesday night.

zing

All in the one night ? Manu heads all coming in to give us a mega preaching ?

Kimbot

DaBreno wrote: »

Thats probably 10am this morning at the rate we are going. Im predicting 10k posts sometime on Tuesday night.

Unless Hicks goes to the press and says something stupid in the morning or we sign Aimar tomorrow. It would easily hit the 10K before Tuesday night then.

Chardee MacDennis

Baros has signed for Pompy, thank god we have played them twice already or Baros would have found some amazing form and grabbed a hat trick against us!

zing

Can we expect to be drawn against Pompey int he 5th round then ?

Chardee MacDennis

zing wrote: »

Can we expect to be drawn against Pompey int he 5th round then ?

I'd say its guaranteed!

Kimbot

Baros will probably have a stormer against us but for some reason I doubt it.

zing

The press also appear to think something isn't quiet right in Gillet & Hicks land.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article3261496.ece

Wonder when Gillet will reappear and what he'll have to say for himself.

Chardee MacDennis

zing wrote: »

The press also appear to think something isn't quiet right in Gillet & Hicks land.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article3261496.ece

Wonder when Gillet will reappear and what he'll have to say for himself.

Well I thought BBC pushed him quite a bit - i dont think anyone is satisfied at the moment. i think most people are of the opinion that if we dont seal mascherano and maybe another player (aimar?) soon, words mean nothing.

joe123

jonny24ie wrote: »

Unless Hicks goes to the press and says something stupid in the morning or we sign Aimar tomorrow. It would easily hit the 10K before Tuesday night then.

Whats the story with aimar? Ive heard for the first time today off a mate that we were linked with him, but ive not read or heard about it anywhere else?

Kimbot

joe123 wrote: »

Whats the story with aimar? Ive heard for the first time today off a mate that we were linked with him, but ive not read or heard about it anywhere else?

Its back about 4-5 pages, from the echo.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54970506&postcount=9601

jesus_thats_gre

I know that he was quite the talent about 6+ years ago but what is he like now?

Tusky

Ive always admired Aimar but haven't heard much about him in the last few days. Is he past it or still good ?

[edit] Great minds Gre...

The Recliner

Reports seem to suggest that he is back playing well again

And he had soem good words to say about Benitiz too

Can't find links now but they are a couple of pages back

Tusky

The Recliner wrote: »

Reports seem to suggest that he is back playing well again

And he had soem good words to say about Benitiz too

Can't find links now but they are a couple of pages back

Just checking his stats in the league.

0 goals / 3 assists from 11 starts this season
5 goals / 7 assists from 31 starts last season

I assume he would be played in Kuyts position if he came. What position does he play at Zargoza.

Kimbot

Tusky wrote: »

Just checking his stats in the league.

0 goals / 3 assists from 11 starts this season
5 goals / 7 assists from 31 starts last season

I assume he would be played in Kuyts position if he came. What position does he play at Zargoza.

Here is all the positions he has played for them over the last few years.

http://www.football-lineups.com/team/Real_Zaragoza/La_Liga_2007-2008/campaign

Chardee MacDennis

Tusky wrote: »

0 goals / 3 assists from 11 starts this season
5 goals / 7 assists from 31 starts last season

thats not too impressive. i didnt realise he was still under 30! He seems to have been around for ages.

Tusky

Having looked at the stats, he seems to have played the majority of games on the left wing and a few times in the hole.

redspider

A week is a long time in politics, but also in the financial world. So, whats the connection between a rogue trader and Liverpool FC? Probably a lot more than we could ever have guessed. During last week, Societe Generale decided to close its oustanding financial positions which the trader had foolishly taken and they did so at a major loss. Note that they had positions valued at 50 billion, which was approx 10% of the markets they were dealing in if not more. That was significant enough to have an effect on sentiment on the market and share prices were hammered (more so than they should have been). The US Fed fearing a meltdown was on its way in the US panicked and 'gave' the US 75 basis points lower in an overnight and unexpected decision.

The markets held their value but the knock-on effect of this is that Wachovia (who are US-based) could now offer Liverpool's FC owners their required loan of UKP 350 million at a cheaper rate and the deal was done quickly. Its not a mere coincidence. That rogue trader has inadvertently helped LFC, as well as thousands of other people looking for cheaper loans.

So is all well with Liverpool FC financially? LFC was bought with a 300m short-term loan. That has now been converted to a 350m 18-month loan. The debt amount is not getting any smaller. The interest payable details werent mentioned, so lets hope they got a good price. Dont believe anything about whether the debt is on LFC's books or not. It doesnt matter as that is purely an accounting aspect. More and more debt will be transferred from the owners (debt) to the clubs books (debt) as the club/business increases its asset value, I expect. In one fell swoop they moved over (book wise) 105m of debt. But the debt is there regardless whether it is on the LFC books or not. The debt is now 350m!

Also these guys own other businesses, so there is nothing to stop them extracting money from LFC as the years progress and if it produces money to fund itself (ie: pay off the 350m debt) plus other areas of debt. That is clearly their intention, ie: to extact money/value from LFC and whether LFC wins trophies or not is a secondary consideration. Like many so-called private-equity deals (Babcok & Brown for eircom) it is a money decision, and the owners do not have the cash to use LFC as a plaything for football success. They cant throw caution to the wind and go all out financially in an attempt to win the league or the CL or whatever. Of course they want LFC to win trophies and be succesful on the pitch, as that will feed into business success financially, but it wont be a case of it being a major spending spree and risky spending in attempting to achieve such success. It cant. So they will be extracting their 'pound of flesh' as they go along. That will put a drag on LFC and in time depending on what they want to do with the money that LFC should generate, it may be a drag on LFC for many years to come.

LFC is not the only club in debt, Arsenal are as well and from what I recall Man Utd/Glazers are also, but its a highly profitable business so their owners are raking it in. But it remains to be seen how much the LFC owners will extract on a year-in year-out basis. So far, LFC's debt mountain is mounting - now it is 350m in total. When Moores et al sold it, LFC was 80m in debt, so that is a big change no matter which way its dressed up. Like other corporate 'raiders', the LFC owners will structure the business in the best way possible, but make no bones about it, LFC is in deep debt, before this stadium (which is needed) is built.

I think all LFC fans will be advised to read the LFC accounts very closely when they are published and to read them each year. The financial performance of LFC will have a direct bearing on what is available/possible for spending in terms of football capability.

Its a funny old game .....

Redspider

The Recliner

I would imagine Benitez playing him instead of Kuyt but shoving him out on the left wing wouldn't be out of character either

Although I wouldn't buy him to play as a winger

redspider

I think it was great for Liverpool to be a part of the Havant & Waterlooville story in this years FA Cup. It was the 'romance' of the cup to its last, and all kudos surely have to go to the Havant players for the way they raised their game. They didnt crumble and could have made it 4-3. Crouch's last goal was offside so they could have felt aggrieved by that, but they were happy anyway and the kop gave them an amazing ovation at the end - overall a good day for football.

In terms of the FA Cup, it is a chance of silverware this season for Liverpool, and I use chance as in an outside chance, but it is probably our best chance. So much depends on the luck of the draw for this competition though so anything can happen. Lets hope for a lucky draw on Monday afternoon, but we will have to meet a big team sometime in the competition.

Redspider

Tusky

The Recliner wrote: »

I would imagine Benitez playing him instead of Kuyt but shoving him out on the left wing wouldn't be out of character either

Although I wouldn't buy him to play as a winger

Torres
Crouch
Aimar
Babel

That looks like a healthy enough strike force to me.

The Recliner

Tusky wrote: »

Torres
Crouch
Aimar
Babel

That looks like a healthy enough strike force to me.

I don't know why but I have a feeling that Rafa will get rid of Crouch in the summer and persist with Kuyt

I think Kuyt's work ethic is great but he has been muck this season, his clone Voronin has to go as well

redspider

I think he is past his best, so whether he will be of much use to us is another story. Do we need an attacking midfielder? (yes and no). I think if Rafa would have wanted him, he would have opted for him back here: July 29 2006, Aimar joined Real Zaragoza costing €11 million. Rafa last summer spent 11.5 million ukp (about 16m-17m euro) so he clearly values Aimar as less than Babel.

I think, if we adopt a transfer policy akin to what was done for Torres (ie: spend large on hot prospects) its better to save the money and go for someone that will be 'brilliant'. Of course with such a policy mistakes will happen, players may not respond as expected (Diouf anyone?), but its a polciy I'd like to see continued.

First things first, secure Masch. He is an integral part of our team and I think he can be played along with Alonso and Gerrard and Babel to form a solid midfield. Torres with a good striker (none of Kuyt, Crouch or Voronin cut it). I think I would sell Kuyt and Voronin and bring in a new striker. Keep Crouch because he can be used to shake-up games and in games where Pennant or other wingers are deployed more.

But for me, Aimar - no thanks.

Redspider

zing

redspider wrote: »

I think all LFC fans will be advised to read the LFC accounts very closely when they are published and to read them each year. The financial performance of LFC will have a direct bearing on what is available/possible for spending in terms of football capability.

Its a funny old game .....

Redspider

Do they have to continue to publish accounts ? Not all private companies do and I can't see these boys doing so - bar last year where they probably will have to taking in the period up to the takeover.

As for Aimar - afaik he's out of action after surgery in the summer and isn't due back for another couple of months. No doubting his quality though but would be a huge gamble to take on him.

EDIT: We effectively know the transfer budgets for the next 18 months (bar what's made up from player sales) based on the figures released over the last few days. iirc 40 or 45m of the money was to go on players

kida

Haven't seen in the thread

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=559693

Mascherano: I Want To Leave Liverpool For Juventus

Javier Mascherano has declared that he wants to leave Liverpool, and has spoken about the possibility of a move to Juventus.



The Argentine is undoubtedly one of the best defensive midfielders in world football, however his future at Liverpool is clouded in uncertainty.

Mascherano's contract is owned by the international fund of investors, Media Sports Investments (M.S.I), who are demanding €24m for their client to stay at Liverpool permanently.

The Anfield club's owners Tom Hicks and George Gillet are refusing to pay such a sum, thus making it inevitable that the player will leave the club.

However Mascherano has now admitted himself that he is keen to depart England.

"At Liverpool I have found my home. I am committed and I cannot complain about how the city has accepted me since I came here,” the 23-year-old told an Argentinean radio station.

“However I feel that now the time has come to move on. I would like to leave the Premiership. A move to Juventus? Well I like to travel.”

Mascherano’s agent Walter Tamer fuelled speculation yesterday when he admitted that his client was likely to be playing in Italy next season.

“Liverpool have not made any offer at all to buy Javier and it is likely that he will go to Italy next season," Tamer stated.

Juventus will complete the transfer of Momo Sissoko this Sunday for €13m, and it now seems possible that Mascherano could join him in Turin.

The Bianconeri fans have been bitterly opposed to Sissoko’s transfer, however they are likely to be much more open to the possibility of Mascherano moving.

It remains to be seen if Juve’s sports director Alessio Secco will listen to Mascherano’s hint of a come-and-get-me plea.

Gianni Wilson

worrying comments from his agent - assume he gets more if he moves thna if he stays with pool

kryogen

sounds to me like hes trying to force liverpool to make an offer in fairness, masch that is, the agent would probably prefer the move cause he will probably get more $$$ alright, i think masch wants to stay with ye though, he is just trying to force the boards hand a little maybe?

if the owners dont buy him that is a shocking bit of business and a real bad message to send out in terms of ambition, but i cant see ye not signing him if sissoko is being shipped out so i wouldnt worry too much at the moment....

surely your owners understand how important securing his services are?

zing

kida - half those comments are from an Interview with an Argentinian radio station sometime (early ?) last week. Was long before Hicks finally came out and said we'd be signing him and iirc Rafa also spoke to Masch about it and got assurances that he wanted to stay.

The only bit I've not seen before in relation to that interview is the bit where he said he wanted to leave the premiership. I'd potentially put it down to either a bad translation (but the rest is fine) or a journalist making stuff up to sell the papers. It could of course be true but it goes against everything Masch himself has said until now - and even what he said in the same interview.

~Rebel~

I have a feeling the Momo deal won't go through. Tiago's talks with Spurs have stalled, which probably puts the move for his replacement in doubt as well. Which in turn could put Masch's signing in doubt.

On Masch's statement though, it hasn't been picked up by anyone else even though its 4 days old which is pretty odd..Also, 3 days ago Rafa made a statement saying;

"I have confidence Mascherano will stay with us. I don't know the exact position now but I talked to the player yesterday and he wants to stay.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_3078150,00.html
..so obviously the stories don't tie up at all.

kida

zing wrote: »

kida - half those comments are from an Interview with an Argentinian radio station sometime (early ?) last week. Was long before Hicks finally came out and said we'd be signing him and iirc Rafa also spoke to Masch about it and got assurances that he wanted to stay.

The only bit I've not seen before in relation to that interview is the bit where he said he wanted to leave the premiership. I'd potentially put it down to either a bad translation (but the rest is fine) or a journalist making stuff up to sell the papers. It could of course be true but it goes against everything Masch himself has said until now - and even what he said in the same interview.

would take with a pinch of salt - more worryinh would be the agents comments (if true) - its obviously in his interests to get him a move (backhanders from the owners couldn't be ruled out either)

zing

The agents comment were from the same interview. All he said was that we hadn't made an offer and that Masch would go to Italy next year - we hadn't made an offer at that time. We possibly still haven't but hopefully when Parry finishes his round of golf this morning he might remember to do something about it.

An Citeog

zing wrote: »

Do they have to continue to publish accounts ? Not all private companies do and I can't see these boys doing so - bar last year where they probably will have to taking in the period up to the takeover.

Yes, they are required to do so by law. Both private and public limited companies are required to file their accounts with Companies House and these can be viewed by the public (usually for a nominal fee).

kryogen

i can still see tiago going to spurs eventually, but the problem for juve signing sissoko seems to be the fans, they must watch the odd bit of SSN cuz they dont want him! not saying the deal wont happen but i know the juve fans arent happy about it

zing

AFAIK Momo was due to fly to Turin yesterday for his medical and return to Ghana last night to hook up with the Mali squad again. Haven't seen anything to indicate whether that did or didn't happen.

mike65

Please get this deal done! Both of them.

RedSpider, I think the interest on the deal will swallow up about 25 million PA, ie one really good player!

Mike.

whatawaster

I would not be happy spending loads of money on Aimar, given his age and his slightness. Especially as he's injured at the moment ( i think). A loan deal might be good though. He is top quality, without doubt, but would be a risk in the prem. I'd like to see us get someone in on loan till the end of the season - podolski would be good i think.

~Rebel~

whatawaster wrote: »

I would not be happy spending loads of money on Aimar, given his age and his slightness. Especially as he's injured at the moment ( i think). A loan deal might be good though. He is top quality, without doubt, but would be a risk in the prem. I'd like to see us get someone in on loan till the end of the season - podolski would be good i think.

Aimar could be a decent capture, but ONLY if its on the cheap. Anything like what he cost Zaragoza would be a complete waste of resources. It would be nice to have him playing behind Torres, but to be honest if thats what we're after i'd prefer we just put Yossi there instead. He's scoring goals, has a decent understanding with Torres, has intelligence, can keep moves going, and is definately better then Kuyt by this seasons performances.

Gerrard--Alonso--Masch--Babel

---

Yossi

---

Torres

with Gerrard in his free role a la zidane rather then right wing.
we probably won't see it, but id like to see it tried.

p.s good write up there on the finances Spider.

mike65

Gerrard--Alonso--Masch--Babel

---

Yossi

---

Torres

Indeed, Yossi is largely wasted on the wing, yet on Saturday playing through the middle scored 3 goals.

Mike.

whatawaster

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Aimar could be a decent capture, but ONLY if its on the cheap. Anything like what he cost Zaragoza would be a complete waste of resources. It would be nice to have him playing behind Torres, but to be honest if thats what we're after i'd prefer we just put Yossi there instead. He's scoring goals, has a decent understanding with Torres, has intelligence, can keep moves going, and is definately better then Kuyt by this seasons performances.

Gerrard--Alonso--Masch--Babel

---

Yossi

---

Torres

with Gerrard in his free role a la zidane rather then right wing.
we probably won't see it, but id like to see it tried.

p.s good write up there on the finances Spider.

I still think our best formation is:

---

Alonso

---

Mascherano

---

---

Gerrard

---

---

Kuyt

---

Babel

---

---

Torres

---

like we saw against Newcastle. Hopfully next year Kuyt will be replaced with someone world class, and we'll be laughing.

An Citeog

whatawaster wrote: »

I would not be happy spending loads of money on Aimar, given his age and his slightness. Especially as he's injured at the moment ( i think). A loan deal might be good though. He is top quality, without doubt, but would be a risk in the prem. I'd like to see us get someone in on loan till the end of the season - podolski would be good i think.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Aimar could be a decent capture, but ONLY if its on the cheap. Anything like what he cost Zaragoza would be a complete waste of resources.

Why the hell would Zaragoza loan him out or sell him on the cheap? He's an important player for them and it will take a fairly big offer (say £15million) to even tempt them.

Bayern have already said that Poldi is going nowhere aswell.

~Rebel~

An Citeog wrote:

Why the hell would Zaragoza loan him out or sell him on the cheap? He's an important player for them and it will take a fairly big offer (say £15million) to even tempt them.

I dont think they would, but its the only way it makes sense from an LFC perspective.

Whatawaster; I always like that formation you listed as well, but i dont think we're quite ready for it just yet. Another few months experience for Babel and a seriously sh1t hot top notch speedy WF type player and it could be devastating though.
*crosses fingers for Benzema again*

whatawaster

An Citeog wrote: »

Why the hell would Zaragoza loan him out or sell him on the cheap? He's an important player for them and it will take a fairly big offer (say £15million) to even tempt them.

Bayern have already said that Poldi is going nowhere aswell.

Bayern said he could go on loan, but Klinnsman will want him back next season, the lad wants games with the Euros coming up.

They might loan him because of his injury - apparantly he's out for a couple of months and we'd be paying his wages and helping him back to full fitness.

whatawaster

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I dont think they would, but its the only way it makes sense from an LFC perspective.

Whatawaster; I always like that formation you listed as well, but i dont think we're quite ready for it just yet. Another few months experience for Babel and a seriously sh1t hot top notch speedy WF type player and it could be devastating though.
*crosses fingers for Benzema again*

we could even try Crouch in the middle with Torres and Babel in the wider areas, though this might negate some of Nando's potency.