Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

His age???? He is 27, players hit their peaks between 25-30

yes but he will have little or no resale value and with that comes risk. If Torres on the other hand didn't do too well, we still have him on a 5+ year contract and i'm sure a big spanish or Italian side would pay 15m for him.

Melion

I think 6m a year would be worth it if we won the premiership even once

Unearthly

So is this thread dead then?

Melion

whatawaster wrote: »

yes but he will have little or no resale value and with that comes risk. If Torres on the other hand didn't do too well, we still have him on a 5+ year contract and i'm sure a big spanish or Italian side would pay 15m for him.

Who cares about resale value?

Someone like him is worth the risk, he is the kind of player we need right now. Ability to change a game with one touch, he would be a huge success on the pitch with the fans. He would also help the kids that are currently in our academy. Imagine how good it would be for the likes of Nemeth, Amoo etc to be learning from Torres and Berbatov.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

But if Rafa was thinking like that, it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense, especially due to Gerrard. Unless he sees Gerrard is a more holding role in the future, there's really no reason to have any more than one person covering him there.

I think we're getting too caught up in symantics. The simple facts are that if Liverpool were to try consistently playing in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 style with any hope of success (and lets remember Rafa isn't stupid), Kuyt and Voronin would not be playing a regular part. Odd sub appearance or to rest someone maybe, but not more then that. They would play more when switched to a 442. Yossi could potentially play the attacking right position, but wouldn't be ideal. Would be better as cover for Gerrards attacking MF position.

The potential use of a 4-3-3 rests entirely on bringing in a top class WF type player as well as hoping Babel takes the next step up which hopefully he will next year.

This is all based on what works with the players we have coupled with who we could get in on our now strict budget. A good 4-4-2 at this point would need at least 1 winger and another top class striker, but a 4-3-3 would just need a top class player in a cross between the 2 roles.

Unearthly

whatawaster wrote: »

yes but he will have little or no resale value and with that comes risk. If Torres on the other hand didn't do too well, we still have him on a 5+ year contract and i'm sure a big spanish or Italian side would pay 15m for him.

Torres was different. He had never played in the premiership before so might not of settled there. Liverpools gamble paid off big time.

Berbatov has been one of the premierships best forwards for nearly 2 years.

The chances of him failing at a top 4 club is not much.

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

Who cares about resale value?

Someone like him is worth the risk, he is the kind of player we need right now. Ability to change a game with one touch, he would be a huge success on the pitch with the fans. He would also help the kids that are currently in our academy. Imagine how good it would be for the likes of Nemeth, Amoo etc to be learning from Torres and Berbatov.

I'm not arguing that he's a quality player. I just think there are better players out there, most of them are younger, most of them are cheaper.
I feel he is slightly over-rated and as i've said earlier - i'd take Keane over him in a second. And he'd be a lot cheaper i think

Melion

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm not arguing that he's a quality player. I just think there are better players out there, most of them are younger, most of them are cheaper.
I feel he is slightly over-rated and as i've said earlier - i'd take Keane over him in a second. And he'd be a lot cheaper i think

Keane is older than Berbatov

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

Keane is older than Berbatov

And cheaper. And better imo. And i never said he was my number one target or anything like it.

Chardee MacDennis

Unearthly wrote: »

Berbatov has been one of the premierships best forwards for nearly 2 years.

I really think people are being caught up in the hype here - he scored on more goal and had one more assist then Kuyt last season, so was Kuyt one of the best premiership forwards last year?

whatawaster

Call_me_al wrote: »

I really think people are being caught up in the hype here - he scored on more goal and had one more assist then Kuyt last season, so was Kuyt one of the best premiership forwards last year?

He was the best

Melion

whatawaster wrote: »

And cheaper. And better imo. And i never said he was my number one target or anything like it.

I wouldn't say he's better, this isnt anything against you but a few people here have said that Berbatov is too old and Robbie would be a far better signing for us because of that.

Melion

Call_me_al wrote: »

I really think people are being caught up in the hype here - he scored on more goal and had one more assist then Kuyt last season, so was Kuyt one of the best premiership forwards last year?

There is no hype, how many goals was he involved in last season. He seemed to be at the heart of everything Spurs did last year.

Mr Alan

Note that in my post i did not once say i thought Berba was worth £30million, i just said that he is the type of player we should be looking at, he is the right calibre to move us up a level, which is wat we need.

As for Mascherano, the £17million thats always been touted, has never sounded right. Remember that Mascheranos career was in no mans land when we took him from WestHam, this is when the deal would have been done up for our purchase agreement, not now, a year later. He is on record as having said that he feels he owes his career to Rafa. The figure quoted and wat i've figured all along is £10-£12million. Bargain of the century.

PHB, wouldnt be so hopeful about Tevez, his career was on a major upslope when Utd signed him, with some of the biggest clubs in the world battling it out for his signature. I reckon the same reasoning for Maschs bargain price cannot really be applied to Tevez. Doubt it anyway.

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

I wouldn't say he's better, this isnt anything against you but a few people here have said that Berbatov is too old and Robbie would be a far better signing for us because of that.

I think people were, in the first instance, objecting to his 20 million + valuation. That led to comparisons to the probably cheaper Keane.

Unearthly

Call_me_al wrote: »

I really think people are being caught up in the hype here - he scored on more goal and had one more assist then Kuyt last season, so was Kuyt one of the best premiership forwards last year?

because football is that simple :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

Melion wrote:

I wouldn't say he's better, this isnt anything against you but a few people here have said that Berbatov is too old and Robbie would be a far better signing for us because of that.

I dont think anyone thought he was too old, I think it was more that he was too old to command a fee of 30million without being absolutely top world class, as in you get less years out of him and theres very little room for potential improvement.

Chardee MacDennis

Melion wrote: »

There is no hype, how many goals was he involved in last season.

21 from the stats. My stats were actually wrong Kuyt scored one more goal than berbatov and had the same assists. And there is loads of hype around berbatov, when the media start talking about £35m - thats is hype....

Premier League 2006/2007

Kuyt 12 Goals 10 Assists

Berbatov 11 Goals 10 Assists


He is not the player we are looking for imo.

redspider

10,020th post (definitely) ;-)

Good to see Sissoko going for a good price, we should wish him well at Juve, I'm sure he will make a few crunching tackles.

That money should now be used for Masch.

Chardee MacDennis

Unearthly wrote: »

because football is that simple :rolleyes:

but when we compare united players and liverpool players (a debate i have no interest in rehashing) then the stats say it all, hmm... maybe i just dont get all these double standards - someone should write them down.

~Rebel~

Call_me_al wrote:

21 from the stats. My stats were actually wrong Kuyt scored one more goal than berbatov and had the same assists. And there is loads of hype around berbatov, when the media start talking about £35m - thats is hype....

Premier League 2006/2007

Kuyt 12 Goals 10 Assists

Berbatov 11 Goals 10 Assists


He is not the player we are looking for imo.

to be honest if Kuyt was doing that again this year i dont think we'd be so worried about replacing him. Unfortunately he's not.

Melion

Call_me_al wrote: »

21 from the stats. My stats were actually wrong Kuyt scored one more goal than berbatov and had the same assists. And there is loads of hype around berbatov, when the media start talking about £35m - thats is hype....

Premier League 2006/2007

Kuyt 12 Goals 10 Assists

Berbatov 11 Goals 10 Assists


He is not the player we are looking for imo.

But that is direct assists. What i mean is, how many was he involved in with a pass nobody else could see into Lennon,Jenas,Keane who then passed it onto someone else and they get the direct assist.

Unearthly

Call_me_al wrote: »

but when we compare united players and liverpool players (a debate i have no interest in rehashing) then the stats say it all, hmm... maybe i just dont get all these double standards - someone should write them down.

No idea what you are trying to say. I do think stats such as goals and assists are important, but don't tell other valuable things that you need to watch a match and see for yourself.

Also there are other things you only pick up when you are actually at a match, not watching on tv. Can't rely just on stats when judging players. Over simplifys things.

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

But that is direct assists. What i mean is, how many was he involved in with a pass nobody else could see into Lennon,Jenas,Keane who then passed it onto someone else and they get the direct assist.

who knows. Whose to say Kuyt wasn't involved in more? Kuyt had a very good year last year i thought. And i know he's been crap this season, but i think he'll come good.

zing

Masch deal close.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158635080129-1415.htm

Actually - does this need to be tied up during this window ? Or could he be signed say next week. It's not as if his registration needs to move between clubs.

PHB

Last Year: From ESPN

Kuyt:
Premiership: 34 games - 12 goals - 4 assists
All Comps: 40 games - 14 goals - 4 assists

Berbatov:
Premiership: 33 games - 12 goals - 11 assists
All Comps: 49 games - 23 goals - 15 assists

This Year:

Kuyt:
Premiership: 19 games - 3 goals - 1 assist
All Comps: 24 games - 5 goals - 1 assist

Berbatov:
Premiership: 22 games - 8 goals - 10 assists
All Comps: 33 games - 13 goals - 13 assists

Tusky

Call_me_al wrote: »

21 from the stats. My stats were actually wrong Kuyt scored one more goal than berbatov and had the same assists. And there is loads of hype around berbatov, when the media start talking about £35m - thats is hype....

Premier League 2006/2007

Kuyt 12 Goals 10 Assists

Berbatov 11 Goals 10 Assists


He is not the player we are looking for imo.

You are comparing your stats in a way that heavily favors Kuyt. Below is the real picture.

Berbatov 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 11 assists
Fa Cup: 3 goals 1 assist
Carling Cup: 1 goal 1 assist
Uefa Cup: 7 goals 1 assist

TOTAL 06/07 : 23 goals 14 assists

Kuyt 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 4 assists
Fa Cup : 1 goal 0 assists
Carling Cup : 0 goal 0 assists
Champions League : 1 goal 0 assists

TOTAL: 06/07 14 goals 4 assists.

So there was a difference of 9 goals & 10 assists. I also think someone like Berbatov would score more with Liverpool than Spurs.

Heres the totals for this season.

Kuyt 07/08 - 5 goals 1 assist
Berbatov 07/08 - 13 goals 13 assists

A difference of 8 goals & 12 assists.

The combined difference between the two players over the last 2 seasons is a massive 17 goals & 22 assists in Berbatovs favor.

PHB

Not only that, but Berbatov is a Drogba style player who can work in a long ball style system which Liverpool use.

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

You are comparing your stats in a way that heavily favors Kuyt. Below is the real picture.

Berbatov 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 11 assists
Fa Cup: 3 goals 1 assist
Carling Cup: 1 goal 1 assist
Uefa Cup: 7 goals 1 assist

TOTAL 06/07 : 23 goals 14 assists

Kuyt 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 4 assists
Fa Cup : 1 goal 0 assists
Carling Cup : 0 goal 0 assists
Champions League : 1 goal 0 assists

TOTAL: 06/07 14 goals 4 assists.

So there was a difference of 9 goals & 10 assists. I also think someone like Berbatov would score more with Liverpool than Spurs.

Heres the totals for this season.

Kuyt 07/08 - 5 goals 1 assist
Berbatov 07/08 - 13 goals 13 assists

A difference of 8 goals & 12 assists.

The combined difference between the two players over the last 2 seasons is a massive 17 goals & 22 assists in Berbatovs favor.

well this years is wrong. Our first goal against Villa both home and away were surely assists for Kuyt.
No denying Berbatov is far more effective though

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

Not only that, but Berbatov is a Drogba style player who can work in a long ball style system which Liverpool use.

Correction - that Carragher uses.

Chardee MacDennis

Tusky wrote: »

You are comparing your stats in a way that heavily favors Kuyt. Below is the real picture.

Berbatov 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 11 assists
Fa Cup: 3 goals 1 assist
Carling Cup: 1 goal 1 assist
Uefa Cup: 7 goals 1 assist

TOTAL 06/07 : 23 goals 14 assists

Kuyt 06/07
Premier League : 12 goals 4 assists
Fa Cup : 1 goal 0 assists
Carling Cup : 0 goal 0 assists
Champions League : 1 goal 0 assists

TOTAL: 06/07 14 goals 4 assists.

So there was a difference of 9 goals & 10 assists. I also think someone like Berbatov would score more with Liverpool than Spurs.

Heres the totals for this season.

Kuyt 07/08 - 5 goals 1 assist
Berbatov 07/08 - 13 goals 13 assists

A difference of 8 goals & 12 assists.

The combined difference between the two players over the last 2 seasons is a massive 17 goals & 22 assists in Berbatovs favor.

i dont know why those assists differ so much between mine and yours, i'll have to go back to where i got mine. also they do have his assists wrong for this season.

and i am pretty sure if we were in the uefa cup Kuyt would have scored more goals against the lesser opposition i dont think its far to compare those two.

Tusky

Call_me_al wrote: »

i dont know why those assists differ so much between mine and yours, i'll have to go back to where i got mine. also they do have his assists wrong for this season.

and i am pretty sure if we were in the uefa cup Kuyt would have scored more goals against the lesser opposition i dont think its far to compare those two.

Why would you assume that ? Kuyt has failed to score against plenty of awful opposition this year.

Chardee MacDennis

Tusky wrote: »

Why would you assume that ? Kuyt has failed to score against plenty of awful opposition this year.

this season when he was much worse than last season yes, but last season he looked good and i'm sure he would have done well at that level. thats why i only compared prem stats as at least its against the same teams.

machiavellianme

Dear lord why didnt the interweb end at 10,000 posts. All this bickering burns my eyes. Alright, I'm gonna come out and say it.
1. Kuyt is of no longer of any practical benefit to us.
2. We will not be signing Berbatov.
Now, surely theres better to argue about?
The loss of Momo, the impending trip to West Ham, the turmoil surrounding everything, etc etc?

Mental Mickey

machiavellianme wrote: »

Dear lord why didnt the interweb end at 10,000 posts. All this bickering burns my eyes. Alright, I'm gonna come out and say it.
1. Kuyt is of no longer of any practical benefit to us.
2. We will not be signing Berbatov.
Now, surely theres better to argue about?
The loss of Momo, the impending trip to West Ham, the turmoil surrounding everything, etc etc?

. LOL. Momo hasn't been the same since his eye injury, imo. This'll probably mean he'll play out of his f**king skin at Juventus??

mike65

Lets guess the starting 11 for West Ham.

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Riise

---

Alonso
Pennant--Gerrard--Babel

---

Benny

---

Torres

Masch is suspended.

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

machiavellianme wrote: »

Dear lord why didnt the interweb end at 10,000 posts. All this bickering burns my eyes. Alright, I'm gonna come out and say it.
1. Kuyt is of no longer of any practical benefit to us.
2. We will not be signing Berbatov.
Now, surely theres better to argue about?
The loss of Momo, the impending trip to West Ham, the turmoil surrounding everything, etc etc?

pretty sure we're not arguing rather than debating, is that not what the forum is for? just for the record i dont think Kuyt is good enough or Berbatov is the player we need in the team.

missingtime

It'l probably be:

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Riise
----Alonso----Gerrard
Pennant

---

Benny

---

Kyut--Torres

It should be (IMO):

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Riise
----Alonso----Lucas
Gerrard

---

Babel/Benny

---

Babel/Benny

---

Torres

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Lets guess the starting 11 for West Ham.

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Riise

---

Alonso
Pennant--Gerrard--Babel

---

Benny

---

Torres

Masch is suspended.

Mike.

---

Reina

---

Finnan

---

Carragher

---

Skrtel

---

Aurelio

Pennant

---

Gerrard

---

Alonso

---

Kewell

---

Torres

---

Kuyt

---

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote: »

Lets guess the starting 11 for West Ham.

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Riise

---

Alonso
Pennant--Gerrard--Babel

---

Benny

---

Torres

Masch is suspended.

Mike.

Would happily go for that team. Possibly Yossi in Babels spot with Crouch partnering Torres up front.

mike65

Gary McAllister has joined Leeds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leeds_united/7215732.stm

Mike.

missingtime

Hope he does well there.

Tusky

I'd like to see this team.

---

Reina

Finnan--Carra--Hyypia--Aurelio

Pennant--Gerrard--Lucas--Benayoun

---

Babel

---

Torres

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

Who cares about resale value?
.

The people who's pockets the £30m would be coming out of..

Unearthly wrote: »

Berbatov has been one of the premierships best forwards for nearly 2 years.
.

Despite not actually scoreing a whole lot of goals? Up to a month or so ago he had the same goals and games stats as Kuyt, yet Kuyt is getting slated left right and centre but Berbatov is one of the best?

EDIT, just noticed this was covered. Damn work gettin gin the way of boards.

Zapp Brannigan

Ah nuts, was hoping Gary would come and join Rafa's backroom team. Be great to have him back at the club in some capacity.

Stky10

Youth team beat Arsenal in the FA Youth Cup. Man U are already out. Could be three in a row...

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158638080129-1903.htm

Villain

Stky10 wrote: »

Youth team beat Arsenal in the FA Youth Cup. Man U are already out. Could be three in a row...

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158638080129-1903.htm

Nah time for Villa to win it again think it was 2002 when we last won it. We have Ipswich at home as Pool are away to Sunderland

DaBreno

DaBreno wrote: »

Im predicting 10k posts sometime on Tuesday night.

Soothsayer also say Rafa to stop Fergie Next Season in the second round of UFC 97 : Spanish Armada Strikes Back

The Bong knows all.....

Chardee MacDennis

Rafa has identified the reason we have been fairly mediocre lately apparently

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158637080129-1558.htm

well we'll know tomorrow night!

Mental Mickey

Call_me_al wrote: »

Rafa has identified the reason we have been fairly mediocre lately apparently

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158637080129-1558.htm

well we'll know tomorrow night!

How can players remain confident if the manager keeps chopping n changing the team???