Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

An Citeog

walshki wrote: »

Wondering this myself. How does it work at Barca - club profits/turnover/tv rights etc? Mr. Alan, a bit more elaboration would be helpful. Would the club return to the fans for funds. If it has to be funded by profits we could be shagged. What about funding for the stadium? Would the club end up with debt to cover that?

Is there any info on this.

I posted it a few pages back, but this is essentially how it works:

Approx 160,000 members pay €150 (not 100% correct) a year in subscriptions. Of this, approximately €10-15million goes towards the football club.

The elected president is required to put up €25million (every 4 years). Laporta and the nine other board members each put up €2.5million when they were elected. I'm not sure if they had to do the same last year as Laporta was reelected without opposition.

Spanish clubs negotiate their own TV rights with Canal+. This means that Barça and Real get far more than the other clubs in the league. This is in stark contrast to the Premier League, where TV money is divided betwee the clubs

All profits are pumped back into the club. There are no shareholders which means there are no dividends to be paid.

There's also the little matter of the Camp Nou which holds in excess of 95,000. This is a huge source of revenue for Barça

Finally, I'm not sure what the story is in relation to image rights, but I know that Madrid make an absolute bomb with these (they were reported to be earning around €40million annually from David Beckham alone). I'm guessing Barça have some sort of similar structure in place but I'm not 100% sure.

PS. It's also worth noting that footballers in Spain are given some very favourable tax breaks. They pay somewhere in region of 15-20% on earnings. This means that the clubs can afford to pay their players a lot less than English clubs as net earnings will be relatively higher.

mike65

All fair points, of course a 70,000 seater stadium would help here. Does anyone know what Liverpool get out of their Setanta channel? I suspect its buttons.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

I'm gutted I'm not in a position to pony up £5k (loaned up to the eyeballs). If this somehow came off, is there an option to buy in at a later date? Or is it in on the ground floor or not at all.

Would love to have a direct involvment with the club and feel able to help towards making a difference.

Melion

Not a hope would i be able to get in on this now. I got a big loan out for my car back in August

Peyton Manning

Id like to know how that team 'own your own football club.com' or whatever are getting on, before Id judge this as a good/bad idea...

mike65

Thats why a boards share should be at least considered or we could all jump in with Dub13 and his supporters association.

Mike.

Tusky

Cant find any news about Mascherano on Sky Sports News. Has it been taken down ?

Hes been on of our best players this season along with Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun & Hyypia. Delighted if its true, dont care about the price.

[edit] Was just thinking. Since the Americans have taken over, we have signed the most expensive striker in Liverpools history, the most expensive central midfielder in Liverpools history, the most expensive winger in Liverpools history & the most expensive defender in Liverpools history. Do people think this is simply because Rafa doesn't need to bring in as many players so can splash the cash around or are the Yanks not getting enough credit in regards to the funds available ?

DaBreno

Tusky wrote: »

Cant find any news about Mascherano on Sky Sports News. Has it been taken down ?

The ticker is showin that we have signed Masch on a four year contract. No mention of a fee.

zing

Stekelly wrote: »

If this somehow came off, is there an option to buy in at a later date? Or is it in on the ground floor or not at all.

If you're buying a share then one would presume you'd also be able to trade that share in the future by some means or other if you so decided to. And if you can sell 'em you'll certainly be able to buy 'em too.

I reckon I'll pledge my support for this. If people are skeptical towards this and adopt a wait and see approach it hasn't a chance of getting anywhere. If any of you are interested and think you'll be able to afford it by whatever means then give it your support. It's the only way it's got any chance of succeeding.

I gave serious thought towards buying a share a few years ago but wasn't really in a position to do so. Still not really with a young family, mortgage, car loans, etc.. but I'm going to try.

GBX

The ticker says on SSN but lfc.tv/news denies ... so far.

Jesus Wept

Tusky wrote: »

Cant find any news about Mascherano on Sky Sports News. Has it been taken down ?

Hes been on of our best players this season along with Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun & Hyypia. Delighted if its true, dont care about the price.

[edit] Was just thinking. Since the Americans have taken over, we have signed the most expensive striker in Liverpools history, the most expensive central midfielder in Liverpools history, the most expensive winger in Liverpools history & the most expensive defender in Liverpools history. Do people think this is simply because Rafa doesn't need to bring in as many players so can splash the cash around or are the Yanks not getting enough credit in regards to the funds available ?

Don't the figures quoted for Masch include wages?
Also, considering we have never spent very big on individual players in the past means those records aren't really huge milestones....

United spent how much on Rio Ferdinand?

ShiverinEskimo

The-Rigger wrote: »

United spent how much on Rio Ferdinand?

29.1m springs to mind.

Tusky

The-Rigger wrote: »

Don't the figures quoted for Masch include wages?
Also, considering we have never spent in the past means those records aren't really huge milestones....

United spent how much on Rio Ferdinand?

Dont include wages as far as I know. 17m + 1.6m which was the loan fee = 18.6m. I'd say the 10m from Sissoko went directly to signing Mascherano so it was 8.6m in total.

But they are milestones for the club...4 record breaking transfers within 6 months. Utd spent 30m on Ferdinand. They have that luxury because they have a manager in place for long. He has been able to craft and evolve his team as he wishes. We have had a revolving door of managers and players which has held us back.

LuckyLloyd

event wrote: »

How many of you will pay the £5000 for a share if this were to go ahead?

I could. But investing in premiership football clubs carries a negative expectation. So no.

DaBreno

Tusky wrote: »

But they are milestones for the club...4 record breaking transfers within 6 months.

Yup, good point. Lets hope this is the trend, quality over quantity. More of the same in the summer, a striker, 2 for the wings and maybe we will finally mount a sustained title challenge.

event

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I could. But investing in premiership football clubs carries a negative expectation. So no.

what do you mean?


No one has confirmed masherano but i reckon it done in all but name.

shows the yanks are willing to back rafa now (well sorta), which can only be a good thing for ye

~Rebel~

Idrizaj seems to have moved on, no mention of a loan so can only assume its permanent. pity, liked the look of him, particularly his hattrick in preseason. reports from when he was in the reserves were that he was having trouble with the english game, but he seemed to be coming to terms with it. I suppose with Pourie, Pacheco, Amoo, Nemeth and Lindfield coming through he'd have had a tougher time of it, though he seemed the most suited of all of those to play as second striker.

Besian Idrizaj last night completed a move to Austrian side Wacker Tirol ahead of the transfer deadline.

It had seemed as though Idrizaj - who had spent this season on loan with Crystal Palace - was on his way to Oldham Athletic before a late change of heart instead saw him return to his homeland with Tirol.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N158674080201-0912.htm

Spud83

I thought the deal for Masherano has been agreed but it wont be completed until the summer. So he will stay on loan until the end of the year but a deal has been reached to make it permanant.

kida

event wrote: »

what do you mean?


No one has confirmed masherano but i reckon it done in all but name.

shows the yanks are willing to back rafa now (well sorta), which can only be a good thing for ye

18.6(yes I know it included the original 1.5) is a lot to shell out on an area of strength when they are crying out for top quality wide players. Yes is a good player but he should not be top priority.

These can all play there.
Gerrard
Alonso
Lucas
Guthrie

Surely a winger would have been a wiser use of the money. It smacks of Benitez conservatism. Better to not lose than win.

zing

kida wrote: »

Surely a winger would have been a wiser use of the money. It smacks of Benitez conservatism. Better to not lose than win.

Were there any decent wingers available in this window ? You can't sign players if they're not available. I think you're also assuming that there won't be money for wingers available in the summer - who knows whether or no that'll be the case.

Dr Galen

none spring to mind that aren't already CL cup tied. Realistically very few of the top class players that we now need to be interested in move in the Jan window. As long as the Masch purchase hasn't used up all the money for the summer i wouldn't be unduely worried

whatawaster

kida wrote: »

18.6(yes I know it included the original 1.5) is a lot to shell out on an area of strength when they are crying out for top quality wide players. Yes is a good player but he should not be top priority.

These can all play there.
Gerrard
Alonso
Lucas
Guthrie

Surely a winger would have been a wiser use of the money. It smacks of Benitez conservatism. Better to not lose than win.

but 18.6 includes wages for 4 years. Assuming he is on around 40k a week, that's 8million over the 4 years, meaning the transfer only costs around 10m. Which is a bargain when you consider what Hargreaves and Carrick cost.

podge018

Not doubting you, but where is it said the 18.6m includes wages?

Chardee MacDennis

i dont think it does include his wages, but we'll find out when it happens. When has anyone included wages in a transfer fee? Also it's payable over two years so its hardly gonna break the bank.

Kida what are you talking about, if we played Guthrie everyone would slate us saying he's not good enough for a top 4 team, wouldnt get a sniff of a starting place at united etc etc.

and since Lucas is hardly the finished product we need masch. Stop stirring sh1t, get lost if you're not going to make valid, constructive points.

An Citeog

whatawaster wrote: »

but 18.6 includes wages for 4 years. Assuming he is on around 40k a week, that's 8million over the 4 years, meaning the transfer only costs around 10m. Which is a bargain when you consider what Hargreaves and Carrick cost.

That seems like a very strange and at the same time unbelievable deal if it's true. Any links to back it up?

Oh, and maybe it'd be better to compare Liverpool with other clubs with the same spending power than with United!;)

Mr Alan

It is quite funny that Utd fans were in here when it looked like we mightnt get Mascherano saying how that would show the owners werent backing Rafa and that it showed a lack of ambition, now that it looks like we might get him, they are coming in saying he'd be a waste of money?!

Mascherano is Quality.
To compete for titles, you need numerous quality players in your squad.
18 million is actually a good price for him if that is the amount being paid when you take into comparrison the amount our "rivals" spend on midfielders.
BUT the 17 million that has been quoted all along was inclusive of the wages in the contract as well-I'd be suprised if it was 18.6 million not incl wages (but if it was, i'd still be glad we signed him).

but if Sky quote the fee as 18.6, people will believe them, despite the fact that day after day after day they quote transfer fees wrong among other things. Sky are meant to report the news, they are not there to dictate it, as much as they might like to think they are-they are not the gospel when it comes to PL

~Rebel~

kida wrote: »

18.6(yes I know it included the original 1.5) is a lot to shell out on an area of strength when they are crying out for top quality wide players. Yes is a good player but he should not be top priority.

These can all play there.
Gerrard
Alonso
Lucas
Guthrie

Surely a winger would have been a wiser use of the money. It smacks of Benitez conservatism. Better to not lose than win.

Huh. Id have said it smacks of not wanting to lose one of our best players. Depends on your outlook I guess. You're a glass half empty kinda guy aren't ya.

Tusky

Mascherano is quality BUT if signing him now stops us getting top attacking talent in the summer, it may be a bad move. However, I feel we should be able to sign Mascherano now and also bring in a winger & striker in the summer subsidized by player sales. If thats the case, its good business.

Also, Alonso has been awful this season. I know he has been injured but he hasn't impressed when he has played.

PHB

It's about a balance of resources, and unless Rafa has been promised lots of money in the window, I think that it's a bad move. Here's the question? Assume you can have 3 players in each position.
Would you prefer

Torres - Kuyt - Crouch
and
Gerrard - Mascherano - Alonso

or

Torres - New Striker - Kuyt
Gerrard - Mascherano - Lucas

Personally I think he should have let Mascherano go

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

It's about a balance of resources, and unless Rafa has been promised lots of money in the window, I think that it's a bad move. Here's the question? Assume you can have 3 players in each position.
Would you prefer

Torres - Kuyt - Crouch
and
Gerrard - Mascherano - Alonso

or

Torres - New Striker - Kuyt
Gerrard - Mascherano - Lucas

Personally I think he should have let Mascherano go

That doesnt really make sense. I assume that the second group isnt meant to have Mascherano in it, but Alonso instead ?

The fact is, there are very few top strikers that will move in the January transfer window. Also, Mascherano is without a doubt, one of our best players and it would be a shame to let him go. As I said, I think we will have enough cash to bring in at least a new striker & winger during the summer as well as Mascherano now.

IF in the summer the money is not there for top quality attackers, then it is a bad bit of business. I dont think thats the case though.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

It's about a balance of resources, and unless Rafa has been promised lots of money in the window, I think that it's a bad move. Here's the question? Assume you can have 3 players in each position.
Would you prefer

Torres - Kuyt - Crouch
and
Gerrard - Mascherano - Alonso

or

Torres - New Striker - Kuyt
Gerrard - Mascherano - Lucas

Personally I think he should have let Mascherano go

ummm, would it not be Masch leaving rather then Alonso?

Anyway, the point is all well and good, but it comes down to a few factors, i.e formation and willingness to play Gerrard somewhere other then center midfield.

I also have to say that Gerrard and Alonso as main midfield partnership with only 'inexperienced in england' Lucas as backup to not look the strongest when you look at Alonso's form over the past year or so.

Also theres the fact that we lose someone we know fits in and is very good, for someone with a question mark over their head. All in all I think it would be a BAD idea to weaken our best area. We should be keeping our current level in the good areas and building on our weak areas, not swapping our strength in midfield on the gamble a forward works out.

We'll definately have enough for 1 extra anyway so theres the option of using the 4-3-3, with a fantastic midfield and a very good forward (with WF's) lineup of Torres, Babel + new

zing

PHB wrote: »

Here's the question?

Why is that the question ? We've been told that part of the money (60m ??) Gillet & Hicks have borrowed over the next 18 months is supposedly to go towards transfers. If that's the case there's no reason why we can't have Masch, new striker + new wingers from that pot + whatever we get from sales.

Speculating on whether people would prefer A + B + C or X + Y + Z really is pointless imo

Personally I think he should have let Mascherano go

But yet you included him in your two possible midfield scenarios ?

mike65

Masch is a bit like investing in a pension, it might feel like you could spend the money elsewhere right now but in years to come you'll be glad you bothered, if there is a weak
link in the MF lineup it is Alonso I think, he can still be great for Liverpool but only if Gerrard is shoved to the right (which we all know he moans about)

---

Masch
Gerrard-Alonso-????

---

Benny

---

Torres

would be the most effective formation at the moment for me, pity the left side is still so problematic.

Mike.

Mr Alan

PHB-the reason you think Rafa should have let Mascherano go because your on record all over these boards saying that you wanted Utd to sign him! ya dog!

If i'm not mistaken, you have also said that if the americans financed the Mascherano deal it would be a major sign of support for Rafa and would be good news, no?

Tusky

I think this is the way forward and it only requires one big signing...and maybe a new LB or CB is Sami retires.

---

Reina

Finnan---Carragher--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano

---

Gerrard

---

Alonso

---

x

---

Babel

---

Torres

mike65 wrote: »

Masch is a bit like investing in a pension, it might feel like you could spend the money elsewhere right now but in years to come you'll be glad you bothered, if there is a weak
link in the MF lineup it is Alonso I think, he can still be great for Liverpool but only if Gerrard is shoved to the right (which we all know he moans about)

---

Masch
Gerrard-Alonso-????

---

Benny

---

Torres

would be the most effective formation at the moment for me, pity the left side is still so problematic.

Mike.

I still feel Babel can do a good job on the left. Hes 21 and has just joined a new team in a new league. How many games has he STARTED in a row ? I dont even know if he has started 2 in a row. He needs a run of starts in the team.

~Rebel~

Tusky wrote: »

I still feel Babel can do a good job on the left. Hes 21 and has just joined a new team in a new league. How many games has he STARTED in a row ? I dont even know if he has started 2 in a row. He needs a run of starts in the team.

True, at this point, with the league gone, its worth playing him from the start in far more games to give him the experience for next year. Maybe something like start 2 in 3 and come on from the bench in the other.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

It's about a balance of resources, and unless Rafa has been promised lots of money in the window, I think that it's a bad move. Here's the question? Assume you can have 3 players in each position.
Would you prefer

Torres - Kuyt - Crouch
and
Gerrard - Mascherano - Alonso

or

Torres - New Striker - Kuyt
Gerrard - Mascherano - Lucas

Personally I think he should have let Mascherano go

why would we let him go, he is possibly the best in his position in the world, and is going to get better. Plus Alonso hasn't looked anywhere near his best for quite some time. I'm certain we'll have the funds to buy at least one premium player in the summer. Either a striker or a winger, and hopefully we can raise enough through sales to buy the other.

missingtime

A little of topic did anyone see the Alonso/Hector thing on TG4 last night?

Went to the pub and forgot about it

~Rebel~

missingtime wrote: »

A little of topic did anyone see the Alonso/Hector thing on TG4 last night?

Went to the pub and forgot about it

bugger, meant to watch it as well, totally forgot!

Dub13

There was a very well attended meeting last night of well respected fans groups in Liverpool.There is going to be a protest at tomorrows game and It was agreed to fully support the team during the 90 mins of play. .

Protests/Picketting of the Club shop(s) was also agreed as the first step to hitting the cash flow and making LFC less of an attractive proposition to G&H.

A statement is being worked on as we speak and will be released
to the press later on today.

Mr Alan

he was only chatting to Alonso for a minute or two, nothing much-just hector acting the goat as usual, Alonso doind a couple of solos with a GAA ball, being asked about his time in meath as a kid.

highlight was when Hector told alonso that he was a Utd fan, and Alonso replied, well in that case you are not welcome here. love it

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

highlight was when Hector told alonso that he was a Utd fan, and Alonso replied, well in that case you are not welcome here. love it

Boo yea! Take that hector ya plank.

missingtime

---

Reina
Finnan/NS*---Carragher/Skirtle--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano

---

Alonso/Lucas

---

Gerrard

---

Babel/NS*

---

Torres/Crouch

* New Signing

Benitez will just have to be firm with Gerrard and put him out right. We cannot afford 2 new wingers so we should splash out on a proper left winger (if we can get one who can play both sides even better).

Say if we sell-
Kyut, Voronin, Pennant, Rise, Carson we should get maybe 20m - 25m and if the yanks throw in another few quid we could do well in the transfer market.

Mr Alan

This is real life not championship manager.

If only it was that simple

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is real life not championship manager.

If only it was that simple

Shhh - you'll spoil it for so many

flanzer

missingtime wrote: »

Benitez will just have to be firm with Gerrard and put him out right. We cannot afford 2 new wingers so we should splash out on a proper left winger (if we can get one who can play both sides even better).

IIRC, when we went on the winning run this time last year, Rafa put Stevie G out on the right, with Momo and Alonso in center and Garcia on the left. C'mon Rafa show a bit of balls. I know if someone like Fergie, Mouriniho or Wenger was in charge, SG would be out on the right. Maybe it's another indication of unrest within the dressing room

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

If only it was that simple

I dunno...doesn't seem so far fetched to me. In the end we are only buying one more player - which is good cos with the high turnover of players there can finally be some sort of balance in the team.

We could also start bringing in some of the reserves <- i just know this is going to be put on my tombstone

~Rebel~

missingtime wrote: »

---

Reina
Finnan/NS*---Carragher/Skirtle--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano

---

Alonso/Lucas

---

Gerrard

---

Babel/NS*

---

Torres/Crouch

* New Signing

Benitez will just have to be firm with Gerrard and put him out right. We cannot afford 2 new wingers so we should splash out on a proper left winger (if we can get one who can play both sides even better).

Might be missing something, but that looks like 10 players to me.. We're having enough trouble as it is with the 11...though it could develope a siege mentality type of thing maybe...lunacy or possibly genius!

Zapp Brannigan

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Might be missing something, but that looks like 10 players to me.. We're having enough trouble as it is with the 11...though it could develope a siege mentality type of thing maybe...lunacy or possibly genius!

I reckon it's just crazy enough to work

whatawaster

missingtime wrote: »

---

Reina
Finnan/NS*---Carragher/Skirtle--Agger--Arbeloa

---

Mascherano

---

Alonso/Lucas

---

Gerrard

---

Babel/NS*

---

Torres/Crouch

* New Signing

that's only 10 players