Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Peyton Manning

Didnt see the game or highlight, but as a matter of interest, how did Crouch play today?

jesus_thats_gre

Crouch played alright I guesss. He scored the first and set up the second. He could have had another with a pretty audacious scissor kick from about 10 yards out.

There is no doubt in my mind that Crouch and Torres are the best pairing we have.

As for the result, meh.

joe123

Archimedes wrote: »

Didnt see the game or highlight, but as a matter of interest, how did Crouch play today?

I only got the highlights on The premierhsip. Crouch seemed one of the best players ( only highlights though ). He scored a great header. He got a touch on for torres' goal if i remember correctly and he nearly scored a spectacular second by way of one of those Scissor kicks (very like the galatassary one).

All in all....why does kuyt start more??

whatawaster

it was a pretty abysmal performance.

Negatives:
Gerrard was poor. Didn't work hard enough. He's playing like he did during our earlier slump. I fully expect him to get back amongst the goals and us to start winning again, but he needs to try more to lift the team when we're playing crap. mash seems better at this

Lucas. Though in fairness, he's not a left winger. Gerrard should have been out there, with Lucas in the centre.


Positives:

Skrtel - I thought was very impressive defensively, and he looks for short, simple passes, which is a breath of fresh air.

We won!

Mr Alan

i love youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBtTq10T_k

Nailz

Good drawing, pity it wasn't a desent player...

Mr Alan

go to bed lad, think you've had a few.

dc69

Archimedes wrote: »

Didnt see the game or highlight, but as a matter of interest, how did Crouch play today?

crouch headed the ball very well which is a surprise,played well i thought,he was getting **** delivery all day but when good crosses were made he delivered

Nailz

Mr Alan wrote: »

go to bed lad, think you've had a few.

There's never time to go to bed after drink, you have to wait until the drink tells you to go to bed...

mike65

Stevie Me - is it time to remove the captaincy from him?

Mike.

Lex Luthor

The Lucas selection out wide baffled me. He didn't look comfortable at all.

I don't think the decision to play Skrtel in the middle with Sami and Carra out wide was a bad move. Carra has played there before and we need to settle Skrtel in and who better to organise him than Sami

PHB

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Our football smacks of "championship" style when Crouch is on. Route one and f**k all else.

Suppose it's goals that count tho..........:rolleyes:

I think thats the problem with Crouch. He's just so tall sometimes you are just too tempted to play it up to him. Oddly enough, he'd much rather it the other way.

Call_me_al wrote: »

i would have brought kuyt on as it looked like we had another in us, so if he had got it it might have restored his confidence.

I think thats bang on the money there. Kuyt needs a goal in open play desperately, why waste Babel?

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Stevie Me - is it time to remove the captaincy from him?

Mike.

do you think Gerrard would stay if he was stripped of the captaincy. No chance, he'd throw a hissy fit.

PHB

Well he'd need Chelsea to come in for him, and I'm not sure they would pay what Liverpool would demand. Not sure United would or could either.
Removing captains is a dangerous game, that said I firmly believe that Carragher would be captain if Gerrard had never talked of leaving. Gerrard is captain fantastic, coming up with moments of magic, but Carragher is a leader week in week out by his personality.

Guy:Incognito

Pennant's crossing was very poor. He was beatign his man and getting the cross in but they werent hitting Liverpool players.

Melion

mike65 wrote: »

Stevie Me - is it time to remove the captaincy from him?

Mike.

Dont be so ridiculous, he is our captain for a reason. Why change it?

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

Dont be so ridiculous, he is our captain for a reason. Why change it?

Because we were, and are afraid of losing him?

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

Dont be so ridiculous, he is our captain for a reason. Why change it?

Being captain doesnt mean he should be untouchable. If we have someone better to do the job or he's not doing it properly it should be able tobe taken away without a big fuss or sulk.

Melion

Christ, i havent read back through the last few pages but are people slating him on here again?

Chardee MacDennis

I thought the decision to play carra at right back was an excellent one. What better way to teach skrtel his role than have Sami and carra on either side telling him where he should be.

The Lucas out left thing was baffling.

Talk today on BBC that crouch, xabi, voronin and riise are gone in the summer. The deal for crouch is 12m plus MICHAEL Johnson. I would take that but kuyt has to go too.

Re gerrard if you remove his captaincy (i don't think we should) that's him gone IMO and who's gonna stump up what we would want for him?

mike65

Dont be so ridiculous, he is our captain for a reason. Why change it?

Cos he is not a leader of men? Seriously compare Gerrard to Keane then compare Gerrard with Shearer, one was a "professional bastard" who worked tirelessly for the team the other was a "professional bastard" who thought he was the team. Gerrard sadly falls much closer to Shearer than Keane. If the action is bypassing him he gets mardy, if he is asked to play somewhere other than centrally he briefs the media of his displeasure. When things are going badly you want your captain to rise up and inspire others (even if its through fear of a bollocking!) Gerrard just shuggs, drops his shoulders and has a go at others with a wagging finger.

Mike.

Melion

Call_me_al wrote: »

I thought the decision to play carra at right back was an excellent one. What better way to teach skrtel his role than have Sami and carra on either side telling him where he should be.

The Lucas out left thing was baffling.

Talk today on BBC that crouch, xabi, voronin and riise are gone in the summer. The deal for crouch is 12m plus ben Johnson. I would take that but kuyt has to go too.

Re gerrard if you remove his captaincy (i don't think we should) that's him gone IMO and who's gonna stump up what we would want for him?

Who the hell is Ben Johnson?

Melion

mike65 wrote: »

Cos he is not a leader of men? Seriously compare Gerrard to Keane then compare Gerrard with Shearer, one was a "professional bastard" who worked tirelessly for the team the other was a "professional bastard" who thought he was the team. Gerrard sadly falls much closer to Shearer than Keane. If the action is bypassing him he gets mardy, if he is asked to play somewhere other than centrally he briefs the media of his displeasure. When things are going badly you want your captain to rise up and inspire others (even if its through fear of a bollocking!) Gerrard just shuggs, drops his shoulders and has a go at others with a wagging finger.

Mike.

Just one thing, what would have happened if Keane was asked to play out on the right wing?

And the bit in bold is especially good if you are trying to defend Keane

Melion

Oh and did it occur to anyone that maybe Lucas was playing in a free role ala Steve McManaman a few years ago? Maybe you've all just been watching too much of The Premiership where Kenny Cunningham pointed out that in fact, Jamie Redknapp was playing on the right side of our defence and was being asked to bomb forward, something he is not accustomed to doing. No shít Kenny, he left Anfield more than 5 years ago you fúckin idiot.

mike65

Jamie Redknapp! :eek: Simple error, one Jamie for another.

If Lucas was being asked to play a free role he did it badly, Babel was availible to use. Or was Rafa testing out "possibilities" in a MUST WIN game?

Mike.

PHB

Just one thing, what would have happened if Keane was asked to play out on the right wing?

He was never asked. However he was asked to play CB, RB and LB are various points, and did it without public complaint, and did a solid job there.

I think Lucas was being blooded, which is fine. Rooney has played most of his United career on the left wing, but it developed his overall gameplay. Lucas needs games, and if you can't fit him in the middle (whic you can't) you need to fit him somewhere

mike65

from BBC

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez will allow £15m-rated midfielder Xabi Alonso to return to Spain in the summer, while John Arne Riise, Peter Crouch, Harry Kewell and Andriy Voronin will also leave Anfield. (News of the World)

I refuse to trawl through the NOTW site to find the article. (unclean)

Mike.

Melion

PHB wrote: »

He was never asked. However he was asked to play CB, RB and LB are various points, and did it without public complaint, and did a solid job there.

I think Lucas was being blooded, which is fine. Rooney has played most of his United career on the left wing, but it developed his overall gameplay. Lucas needs games, and if you can't fit him in the middle (whic you can't) you need to fit him somewhere

Ive said it before plenty of times. Imagine Vieira, Lampard, Scholes etc being forced to play out of position constantly. What would happen? Everyone (bar Scholes maybe) would give out about it. Mainly because any central midfielder moved out of position just doesnt play as well as they do in the centre. Bollocks to all this better for the team shít, Stevie in the centre is for the best of the team which has been proven this season.

mike65

Not proven in my view, yes he is scoring but he also had his best goal tally playing from the right in 2005/06. Playing him through the middle has curtailed Alonsos game as well, if the News of the Screws story is true (doubtful) then selling Alonso to keep Gerrard sweet would appear to be Rafas thinking. I'd keep Alonso, sell Gerrard and spend the money on left winger.

Mike.

Melion

mike65 wrote: »

Not proven in my view, yes he is scoring but he also had his best goal tally playing from the right in 2005/06. Playing him through the middle has curtailed Alonsos game as well, if the News of the Screws story is true (doubtful) then selling Alonso to keep Gerrard sweet would appear to be Rafas thinking. I'd keep Alonso, sell Gerrard and spend the money on left winger.

Mike.

I wouldnt believe a word of that is coming from the NOTW in all honesty. I think Rafa is 2 players short of the starting XI he wants which does include Stevie, Masch and Alonso in a 3 man midfield. Xabi and Masch playing the same kind of roles that Albelda and Baraja played for Valencia.

Playing Gerrard this season hasnt curtailed Xabi's game, the fact that he has had 2 bad injuries has curtailed it. Its well known that Rafa uses Xabi on the field to get his point across, its been like that since he was brought in. It was often commented that Stevie was the club captain but Xabi was the man Rafa called over to the sideline to get messages on. And no, it was nothing to do with the language barrier.

Dub13

Another one who does not believe anything in the NOTW.

Dont be at yourself

Doesnt Bascombe write for the NOTW?

Dub13

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Doesnt Bascombe write for the NOTW?

Yes and since he moved over he has lost a lot of respect.

oobydooby

mike65 wrote: »

Not proven in my view, yes he is scoring but he also had his best goal tally playing from the right in 2005/06. Playing him through the middle has curtailed Alonsos game as well, if the News of the Screws story is true (doubtful) then selling Alonso to keep Gerrard sweet would appear to be Rafas thinking. I'd keep Alonso, sell Gerrard and spend the money on left winger.

Mike.

It would have to be some left winger you'd buy! Selling Gerrard would be like asset-stripping and shouldn't be a realistic option. Knocking him down a peg or two is a realistic option though, but the only way for that to happen is for Gerrard to trust Benitez and work with him (and learn from him!). Compare Keano's respect for SAF and his relationship with MMcC.

I'm in the Xabi Alonso camp though too. Twice I've seen Xabi play and he's one of the best players I've ever seen. This season he's been poor (from what I've seen on TV) but that's due to injuries. I saw Platini play in a friendly game when he was well past it, but the thing is he was still the best player on the pitch. We were all agreed that 'he's got it' and you never lose 'it'. A 43- year old Platini (genius) is the only player I've seen who comes close to Xabi. (I know Fabregas,...etc are all maybe as good but I've never seen them play). When things sort themselves out I can't wait to see Xabi and Torres like two matadors on the European stage.

mike65

Well Gerrard would raise about 25 million (his peak value is this summer I reckon as he is 27) and not all that would be spent on a winger. The reason I say sell is that if you tried to bring Gerrard down a peg or two I think he'd "throw the rattle" and then he'd be no good to anyone. Better gone and lots of money in return. I'd make either Alonso or Masch the new Captain.

Mike.

shotamoose

oobydooby wrote: »

I'm in the Xabi Alonso camp though too. Twice I've seen Xabi play and he's one of the best players I've ever seen. This season he's been poor (from what I've seen on TV) but that's due to injuries.

I like Xabi too but he was pretty poor most of last season too. I hope he improves soon but if not £15m would be a good price for him.

Chardee MacDennis

Melion wrote: »

Who the hell is Ben Johnson?

Good spot, michael johnson i meant!

Chardee MacDennis

Melion wrote: »

Oh and did it occur to anyone that maybe Lucas was playing in a free role ala Steve McManaman a few years ago? Maybe you've all just been watching too much of The Premiership where Kenny Cunningham pointed out that in fact, Jamie Redknapp was playing on the right side of our defence and was being asked to bomb forward, something he is not accustomed to doing. No shít Kenny, he left Anfield more than 5 years ago you fúckin idiot.

and he pointed out that Lucas we coming too central and narrowing the pitch and circled Torres, as Lucas was out on the left wing at the time.

zing

PHB wrote: »

that said I firmly believe that Carragher would be captain if Gerrard had never talked of leaving. Gerrard is captain fantastic, coming up with moments of magic, but Carragher is a leader week in week out by his personality.

Don't forget Gerrard was captain before there was talk of him moving. GH handed him the armband - not Rafa. But yes - Carra is the more natural leader imo too.

Chardee MacDennis

zing wrote: »

Don't forget Gerrard was captain before there was talk of him moving. GH handed him the armband - not Rafa. But yes - Carra is the more natural leader imo too.

i would definitely agree but i think even without the armband carra acts like captain on the pitch.

Mr Alan

and there is also the fact that Carragher views Gerrard as the captain, the team view him as the leader.

Sqaull20

Mr Alan wrote: »

and there is also the fact that Carragher views Gerrard as the captain, the team view him as the leader.

Thats the problem though....

Bit of a Dumb and Dumber effect going on.

Mr Alan

dumb and dumber? sorry i dont get it, one is a super super centre half, and the other is one of the best players ever to play with Liverpool

Sqaull20

Mr Alan wrote: »

dumb and dumber? sorry i dont get it, one is a super super centre half, and the other is one of the best players ever to play with Liverpool

Both are very very opionated, eg When Lucas came on midweek and Gerrard was told to go to the right, both looked at each other in disbelief...

Both are too out spoken imo, like Henry,Keane,Barton etc...

PHB

They view him as a leader because they don't have to perform with him there, cause he'll save them lots of the time. The same thing used to happen with ARsenal and Henry. When you got rid of Henry, the rest of the team stepped up.

Ive said it before plenty of times. Imagine Vieira, Lampard, Scholes etc being forced to play out of position constantly. What would happen? Everyone (bar Scholes maybe) would give out about it. Mainly because any central midfielder moved out of position just doesnt play as well as they do in the centre. Bollocks to all this better for the team shít, Stevie in the centre is for the best of the team which has been proven this season.

It's funny that you mention that, since in order to accomodate Gerrard, Scholes was forced out to the left wing for England, which was such an hilariously bad decision. Also Fergie put Scholes up front for a season or two, no complaints there either.

Gerrard has not proved that his best position is in central midfield. He certainly hasn't done it to Rafa. I still believe his best position is the right wing, where it's ok that he is wasteful. This year he has improved a lot and become a lot less wasteful than he was last season, but he still breaks down a lot of Liverpools attacks because of the hollywood ball. Gerrard is a force of nature, but has many serious flaws. You get the best out of him on the right wing imo

jesus_thats_gre

Nailz wrote: »

Good drawing, pity it wasn't a desent player...

With all the rules here, can we not have a rule whereby if someone is obviously talking out of their ****ing arse and have proven on many occassions to be in capable of making any sort of positive contribution that they are banned.

jesus_thats_gre

I would be heartbroken if we lost Alonso.

Lex Luthor

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I would be heartbroken if we lost Alonso.

I would too....I'd rather keep Xabi over Stevie but they are not similar players.

Kimbot

Gerrard has how many goals this season from the middle??

As i said previous I tihnk that rafa wants a 4-5-1 as his main choice formation and for that he needs 3 central players in Masch, Alonso and Gerrard in the advanced role. With Lucas coming on when needed aswell. 2 wingers are a must and I can see Pennant and Yossi at the moment being first choice with a new left winger beingbrought in during the summer.

oobydooby

shotamoose wrote: »

I like Xabi too but he was pretty poor most of last season too. I hope he improves soon but if not £15m would be a good price for him.

By his standards he was poor maybe. Again, 15m is of course a good price if he wouldn't improve. But if he regained his form of 2 seasons ago, 15m is a snip and he'd certainly improve any of our rivals (domestic or European).

I think Benitez should plan for a ten-man team plus Gerrard. SG is a one-man team but he's not as good a midfielder as either Masch or Xabi (IMO). Play SG in the hole or as a roaming winger with freedom to drift and be creative without risking our shape. I'd like to see a 4-4-1 formation against top teams (Europe, Arsenal, Chelsea, MUFC, Everton/Villa/City away) and a 4-2-3 or 4-3-2 formation against the less tactical EPL teams, with SG a free radical in these formations.

SG can attack from anywhere and he can pitch in and defend very well too. He would also open up a lot of space for Torres as it would be very hard for opponents to defend against him. For me his weakness is his positional play. He doesn't seem to "show for it" as much as I'd expect and he doesn't seem to give Xabi an extra option (ok I haven't seen enough games the past few years with them both but this is my impression from TV too). I can't imagine him being a success in Italy for instance. If he'd be a bit more humble he could learn this from Benitez (IMHO).