Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

zAbbo

He's going to get until the end of the season anyway.

Let's access it then, not now.

Racing Flat

Daemonic wrote: »

If we don't get a much improved performance against Inter I'll have to agree.

Rafa should be out for league position/performances alone.

Even if we beat Arsenal and Man U in the League and win the Champs League, he should be let go. I like him, but enough is enough. It's not even that we're not going forwards - we are going backwards. Torres is the only good thing about this season. I dread to think what things would be like without him.

Even though I dislike Mourinho, I bet if he's our team's manager we'll all love him quite quickly...And the bonus would be Drogba inevitably following him.

redspider

mayordenis wrote: »

how is kuyt the villain here, crouch seems to be touted as someone who must start yet everytime he gets the full 90 mins he does less than nothing, he's actually a hinderance. kuyt worked his bollox off, scored a goal, made chances, kept trying now what did crouch do?

I didnt see the game (just heard commentary on radio) so cant comment definitively, but by all accounts as you point out Crouch was very poor today. But Kuyt was also poor and proved again that he is not a finisher. True, he does run his bollox off, and in a match such as a CL final I'm sure he could put in a very good job against an AC Milan or somebody and allow Torres to do what he does best. But this is Barnsley and in games like that we need finishers. I dont rate Crouch highly but he is awkward and 'can do a job'. Clearly Liverpool need a new striker to play along with Torres and to be of his standard and neither Crouch nor Kuyt cut the mustard, nor does Voronin for that matter.

Redspider

Macker1

redspider wrote: »

Liverpool had 31 attempts at goal (Chelsea 18)
Barnsley had 11 (Huddersfield 6)

It is a very poor result, but lets hope something good will come out of it and that Rafa will learn at least that Kuyt is not good enough. I understand that Lucas was very poor today, and thats dissapointing given that he had an opportunity to shine.

In terms of the Inter match, Mascherano will be back, as will Torres, and Gerrard will play for more than 15 mins. Skrtel might also be included. We all expect a lot more on Tuesday - lets hope we get it and that this defeat will be a blssing in disguise. All the players will be hurting inside ....

"When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high ....."

Redspider

My head is sore from holding it up high .....:(

The team that Rafa put out whilst not first choice should have more than enough for the likes of Barnsley (not disrespect intended). If the guys that play do not perform that should be hammered with criticism. After all they are all getting extremely well paid for a job most people would love to do. I seriously wonder if any of them feel the pain of being an embarassment to the name of LFC. Most of the fools at this point would struggle to get a game in the Phoenix Park. It hard to keep objective when results like this happen but when the season is going down the ****ter, you hang on to the chance of winning a cup as something that placate your support. Going out to Barnsley is another kick in the teeth. I stop writing now as my rage is beginning to boil over. Going to watch Utd V Ars, its a pity that they couldn't both lose..:D

DSB

Didn't see the game today so I won't make any sort of criticism of the performance, but holy **** that is a woeful result. I honestly can't see how anyone can defend Rafa. Failure after failure.

Villain

I think it proves the point that RAFA's main concern is the Champions League, thats what he's good he isn't cut out for it in England!

DSB

Villain wrote: »

I think it proves the point that RAFA's main concern is the Champions League, thats what he's good he isn't cut out for it in England!

I've a feeling Inter are going to do a number on them though, if that is the case he really won't have much to be defended on at all.

Villain

Nope Rafa is a genius when it comes to Europe I think Liverpool will beat Inter over the two legs.

mike65

A bit of me hopes Inter wins as that could be Rafas last game in charge. Herasy I know but it may be better for all concerned - he has lost the dressing room as far as I can tell. A new boom might sweep clean esp as there would only be the league to focus on.

Mike.

DC

I'm sick to my stomach. I've been supporting Liverpool since at least 1982. There is a real danger now that we could surpass Man U's 26 years without a title.

As a friend pointed out to me (a Man U supporter)... there are Liverpool supporters having their first legal pint, who have never seen Liverpool win the league. I'm sure there are people older who cannot remember either... I'm having trouble remembering now!

We are almost certain to finish this season with much less in terms of league and cup performance than last season. Wasn't Rafa's position only tenable on the basis of improvement?

Mourinho... please come and save us.

Unearthly

Villain wrote: »

Nope Rafa is a genius when it comes to Europe I think Liverpool will beat Inter over the two legs.

So do I

It would be so typical

aidan24326

To be fair the Liverpool fans have been very patient and supportive of Rafa but I wonder how much longer he can get away with results like this. It's interesting that when we had the thread about Rafa recently it was mainly the non-Liverpool fans (like me) who were saying he should go while the Pool fans were generally supportive of him being given more time. I sense that some of ye may be starting to lose patience at this stage though!

Mint Sauce

DC wrote: »

As a friend pointed out to me (a Man U supporter)... there are Liverpool supporters having their first legal pint, who have never seen Liverpool win the league. I'm sure there are people older who cannot remember either... I'm having trouble remembering now!

i'm 29, i'm strugling to remember the last leauge win,

1989-90 btw

GBX

As far as Rafa being a genius when it comes to cup comps ... I dont tend to agree. Dont get me wrong, he has done well. But I think its more that the players minds are always aware during a cup game is that its must win. Whereas the league is probably a case of "we need to win this, but if we dont we can always get points in the next game" ... this is where they have suffered over the past few years a lot. Ive seen some cracking cup games = high tempo, great passing, great goals.. but the league always seems be brought down a level. and thats where Arsenal, United and Chelsea have excelled over the past few years.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

It's Barnsley, you could play me in defence and you'd probably still win.?

lol

Was PHB playing for Liverpool today?

Racing Flat

DC wrote: »

I'm sick to my stomach. I've been supporting Liverpool since at least 1982. There is a real danger now that we could surpass Man U's 26 years without a title.

+1
I'm of the vintage that saw Liverpool achieve 17 1st or 2nd placed League finishes in 18 years. And the year we weren't 1st or 2nd, I think we won the European Cup...

I found it so funny when Man U were approaching 26 years and remember thinking how that could never, ever happen to us. 2nd was the worst we could expect, and if we were ever 2nd we'd win it the next year.

And 2nd was such a bad result at the time. Remember Arsenal in 89, cried for the night, couldn't sleep for a week, wouldn't leave the house for fear of bumping into a Man U fan.

But then faith in life was restored in 1990 when we won the League at ease, Ireland got to the 1/4 finals of the World Cup and the Rebels did the double. What a summer! If it was a Carlsberg ad you wouldn't believe it. We might even have had a good run in Eurovision....but I can't remember that;).

And what of 2008. Liverpool painful. Barnsley beating us in the easiest FA Cup in years/of all time? Staunton hangover/No Ireland in Euro's. Rebels not even playing! And Dustin....Did I die and am I in hell now?

mayordenis

DesF wrote: »

lol

Was PHB playing for Liverpool today?

if only

mike65

Vicente Del Bosque anyone?

Mike.

ShiverinEskimo

Woeful result for the pool. I doubt pool fans know who to run to. The much-loathed owners or the person in HR for Rafa's P45.

Didn't see the game so wont comment on performance but when you take away Rafa's skills as being a "cup manager" after today what's left??

~Rebel~

im trying to decide if rafa shoulders the blame for today.

to be fair his starting 11 was more then good enough to win. could have scored 5 or 6 if they took their chances.

the players should take a lot of the responsibility.

imo rafa's mistakes were taking off babel (though kewell did hit the bar and had a few other chances), and starting itandje. I dont like his plan of playing the reserve keeper in the fa cup. carling cup fair enough, but the FA cup is more important.

Mr Alan

mayordenis wrote: »

how is kuyt the villain here, crouch seems to be touted as someone who must start yet everytime he gets the full 90 mins he does less than nothing, he's actually a hinderance. kuyt worked his bollox off, scored a goal, made chances, kept trying now what did crouch do?

exactly. if crouch doesnt score, he offers zero. kuyt does so much.

shocking result. havent seen the game yet, but shocking.

roll on Inter.

leninbenjamin

that's just daft. Kuyt runs around like a headless chicken most of the time, Crouch brings people into play better than almost any other forward. It's more that when crouch is on the pitch Gerrard and Co. get lazy and revert to lump up the long ball scenario. if Benitiz actually had the cop on to use crouch properly he could easily be Liverpool's most effective player. instead he's relegated to cameo's or isolated roles.

and rebel how the hell can Benitez not take the blame? it's not like this was a one off...

Mr Alan

typical.

rafa doesnt play Crouch and he gets stick. Then he does play him and Crouch is muck. and again, its Rafas fault.

Crouch is a decent player, and i like him, but he is not good enough. have you ever seen him run at a player? have you ever even seen him play a pass forward for that matter? always the same, gets the balls, plays it back, he should have been easily able to play against that defence today and really impress.... but he didnt, and was ****e. whos fault?

Rafas!? mystifying.

mayordenis

i certainly don't remember the last time crouch brought anybody else into play.

Mr Alan

Crouch plays ball like he is trying to run down the clock permanently. takes the ball, and passes it back or sideways, nothing dangerous about it, ever.

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

typical.

rafa doesnt play Crouch and he gets stick. Then he does play him and Crouch is muck. and again, its Rafas fault.

Crouch is a decent player, and i like him, but he is not good enough. have you ever seen him run at a player? have you ever even seen him play a pass forward for that matter? always the same, gets the balls, plays it back, he should have been easily able to play against that defence today and really impress.... but he didnt, and was ****e. whos fault?

Rafas!? mystifying.

How can this not be partly Rafa's fault? It gos without saying that the players also didn't put in the required performance too, but surely there are limits to your defence of Benitez?

~Rebel~

leninbenjamin wrote: »

and rebel how the hell can Benitez not take the blame? it's not like this was a one off...

But for gods sake we did everything BUT score lots of goals. I dont see how its Rafa's fault that Kewell hit the crossbar, or Yossi's shot after he dribbled into the box was well saved or that crouchy didnt finish inside the box during a scrappy piece of play? If one or two of the many many many chances created went in, its well done Rafa.

As I said I disagree that Babel was taken off, though id imagine it was because of Tuesdays game, and i disagree that Itandje started, so it is slightly Rafa's fault imo, but i think today (and a lot of days this season) the players have let Liverpool down with their performances/finishing.


On a brighter note, delighted for Kuyt at least.

Mr Alan

DSB wrote: »

How can this not be partly Rafa's fault? It gos without saying that the players also didn't put in the required performance too, but surely there are limits to your defence of Benitez?

of course there is.

i would surmise that perhaps the reason that Rafa doesnt seem to fancy Crouch much is that Crouch doesnt always follow his instructions?

Also, its hardly Rafas fault that Crouch is a poor finsisher and cant finish his dinner.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

Also, its hardly Rafas fault that Crouch is a poor finsisher and cant finish his dinner.

So why did he sign him then?

DSB

Archimedes wrote: »

So why did he sign him then?

Haha this was my exact thought before I'd even read your post.

Mr Alan

maybe he thought he could have made a step up? maybe he thought he'd get better? maybe he was the only player available for the money he had? Maybe it was a mistake?

i dont know.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

maybe he thought he could have made a step up? maybe he thought he'd get better? maybe he was the only player available for the money he had? Maybe it was a mistake?

i dont know.

So by that logic, you're saying that...

a) Benitez bought him even though he was not the player he wanted and couldn't afford any better.

or

b) Benitez judge of player potential is inaccurate and poor.



Is that not Benitez' fault then, ya know, for having a "poor finisher who cant finish his dinner" at the club considering your... "title aspirations"....?

Mr Alan

Look Archimedes, i'm not getting into a row. I think Rafa bought him (for 7million-ish?) and he has been decent enough for us when needed for the last couple of years, and went through a few great spells for us, so in that case, i think he has been a decent buy.

BUT he is not a good enough finisher imo. He also has not really improved since joining Liverpool. You can blame this on Rafa all you want, i couldnt give a ****e, but managers are not able to tell the future or how a player will improve, or how he is to work with.

thats all i'm saying on the subject, dont wanna get into a rafa is great/rafa is ****e argument.

LuckyLloyd

~Rebel~ wrote: »

to be fair his starting 11 was more then good enough to win. could have scored 5 or 6 if they took their chances.

the players should take MOST of the responsibility.

.

This result is irritating. But it doesn't really change that much. Tuesday is vital, vital, vital.

Peyton Manning

Calm down calm down, I dont want a row either. Im just saying that if Crouch isnt good enough for Liverpool, then Rafa has some of the blame as he's the one that brought him in. And just for the record, I have not once stated that Rafa is a sh*t manager. I have immense respect for what he did at Valencia and in his first couple of season's at Liverpool.

Mr Alan

Crouch would be good enough as 3rd or 4th choice. But thats it. My point was in relation to all the people who were doing their nut about Kuyt playing ahead of him the last few weeks. My point then (over the last few weeks) and now, is that Crouch AND Kuyt are probably not good enough for Liverpool as regular starters, but at least Kuyt puts in the effort and offers something to the team.

Pighead

Ah Jesus not more Alanisms, you're keeping me busy here buddy!

Mr Alan wrote: »

Crouch plays ball like he is trying to run down the clock permanently. takes the ball, and passes it back or sideways, nothing dangerous about it, ever.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Also, its hardly Rafas fault that Crouch is a poor finsisher and cant finish his dinner.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53852558&postcount=774
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53853033&postcount=781

Mr Alan

Pighead. **** off. I am not in the mood. Both of the posts you highlighted are just backing up wat i'm already saying. Seroiusly piss off to the standup forum and show off your unique sense of humour there.

1. just as i've said above. good but not good enough to be one of our first choice two.
2. if Crouch could head the ball he'd be amazing, he has good first touch and is 6ft7 tall! unfortunately he cant head the ball.

Peyton Manning

So somebody who has poor finishing and offers nothing to the team just needs to learn how to head the ball to become the best striker in the world?

Mr Alan

the post was half tongue in cheek archimedes, but i think Crouch would be an animal if he could head the ball, say as good as.....Bierhoff.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

Pighead. **** off. I am not in the mood. Both of the posts you highlighted are just backing up wat i'm already saying. Seroiusly piss off to the standup forum and show off your unique sense of humour there.

1. just as i've said above. good but not good enough to be one of our first choice two.
2. if Crouch could head the ball he'd be amazing, he has good first touch and is 6ft7 tall! unfortunately he cant head the ball.

Ah Mr Alan, don't be like that buddy! I'm only having a discussion with ya.

So he can't head the ball, can't finish and he "plays ball like he is trying to run down the clock permanently. takes the ball, and passes it back or sideways, nothing dangerous about it, ever" yet you think that he's an excellent player? Fair enough Mr Alan just wanted to clarify that.

Anyway lets not fight its the weekend. Friends?

Peyton Manning

Fair enough, I wont argue if thats what you meant. But use the ';)' smilie in future...

Note: The ':p' smilie will also suffice.

Mr Alan

I'm not allowed use smilies anymore. got told off about it in the Utd thread the other day.

Peyton Manning

But we're in better humour now. We spanked L'Arse so we're more tolerant.

Mr Alan

thats very tolerant of ye.

KdjaCL

LOL


So wanted to make this a moderator type post about winding up Mr Alan but seriously hehehehe


sorry i have failed hhehe


kdjac

Mr Alan

between PHB being a manc-and recently finding out that PSI was a woman....

you were my last hope!

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

between PHB being a manc-and recently finding out that PSI was a woman....

you were my last hope!

WHAT THE F..........?!

Mr Alan

i know!

mike65

Shirley not?

Crouch has scored 5 goals in his last 7 starts I think, Kuyt as we all know has been through a drought. I could be wrong but the way he "prodded" the ball a few times during that game says to me he has not made some sort of breakthrough. If it was my choice I'd keep Crouchy and sell the Dutchman.

Mike.