Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Melion

Why would any new manager spend 12m on a young potential big left winger when Rafa done exactly that last summer?
We dont need a new LB, Insua is good enough.

kaimera

Well, I think if we did get the CL win it would be a succesful season, so it would certainly help, even finishing 5th or lower and winning the CL would be forgiveable. I'd take thaht now in a heartbeat.

It would only paper over the cracks. The weekends game has to be the lowest point for a long long time and it was coming for a while.

fwiw, I mean a CL win won't help Rafas value on the market imo, not after the **** rest of the season.

Helix

stick-dan wrote: »

But surely you can't be placing the hope and dreams for a successful season on Fernando, that isn't fair on him.IMO, you are a little of the track with your comment yes we were playing breath-taking football that almost seemed as if we were looking at the liverpool of old, the days when liverpool hunted in packs.
But you're wrong in the sense in saying we added the end-product this year. We added half if not a third of the end -product in the sense that torres needed a world class strike partner to be his other half. Kuyt works hard but isnt good enough.Crouch is ok and vorinin bad buy.

i was talking about arsenal, not liverpool

IrishMike

PHB wrote: »

I think Rafa's main problem is his system, not just his players. There is some dross there, no doubt, but the system and his methods aren't working.

Agree 100%.
The system should be the same week in, week out with players being able to
swap without it effectively changing the team formation and balance.
That simply does not happen, rafa still doesnt know his preferred team and
only uses his preferred system for 2 out of 3 matches at most.
Thats fine if you are fulham going to arsenal so you pick a defensive formation
but its Liverpool, they should be dominating games not hoping to nick a 1-0
away to the likes of spurs or boro.

zing

Melion wrote: »

We dont need a new LB, Insua is good enough.

That remains to be seen though - he's only started 2 games for the first team so far iirc. He's got bags of potential but whether or not he can step up to the plate ...

It's a pity for the likes of him that the regular first team players have been so poor this season as I was hoping to see him get some game time in the domestic cups.

Helix

just looking between the inter games for liverpool:

they have

inter (h)
boro (h)
bolton (a)
west ham (h)
newcastle (h)
inter (a)

if liverpool got a 1-0 win against inter at anfield, how likely would benitez be to mollycoddle the team through the league games in the interim to make sure none are injured/tired for the away leg in italy?

if he took that approach, theres a possibly 6 points dropped in those games from draws imo, and if inter did them 2-0 in the second leg things would be at potentially disasterous proportions with liverpools next fixtures against

reading (h)
man utd (a)
everton (h)
arsenal (a)
blackburn (h)

youd expect them to do reading and blackburn, but the 3 in the middle are another potential 6 points gone

im not trolling here, im honestly asking would pool fans rather see benitez play his strongest 11 for all those games, or would you accept tinkering in between the inter ties if you get a result at anfield, even if it ultimately results in dropped points in the league and a champions league exit?

monkey9

From rte.ie

England manager Fabio Capello has warned Serie A leaders Inter Milan to expect a battle when they meet Liverpool in the last 16 of the Champions League tomorrow.

Rafael Benitez's side have reached the final of Europe's premier competition twice in the last three years - winning in 2005 - but are struggling badly at the moment.

Capello insists, however, that Liverpool's poor domestic form will count for little when they host Roberto Mancini's men at Anfield this week.

He told Italian radio: 'Liverpool, when playing in the Champions League, transforms itself.

'At home they have a lot of support and that's why they must be taken very seriously.'

monkey9

From Reuters
By Rex Gowar

LONDON, Feb 18 (Reuters) - Liverpool face a daunting challenge from runaway Serie A leaders Inter Milan in the Champions League at home on Tuesday only three days after their FA Cup humiliation by Barnsley.

Having gone down 2-1 at Anfield against the Championship (second division) side on Saturday, five-times European Cup winners Liverpool must call on their vast experience if they are to win the opening leg of the first knockout round tie.

Stephen Gerrard, who has four goals in the competition, leads a Liverpool side now out of the FA Cup they last won in 2006 and whose interest in the Premier League is virtually over barring the fourth Champions League berth for next season.

With all their eggs now in one basket, defender Jamie Carragher, set to make his 99th European appearance for Liverpool, said: "We will have to play a lot better than we have been and be at our very best to get through.

"They look like running away with their title and are keen to win this trophy after watching AC Milan do that against us last season," he told the club's Web site (www.liverpoolfc.tv).

"It will be a big test for us and we will have to up our game a level or two to get through. Making a good start in the tie at home, though, is crucial."


ONE LOSS

Italian champions Inter have lost only one match this season, a 1-0 defeat by Fenerbahce in Turkey in September in their first group game, and are 11 points clear in Serie A after a 2-0 win over Livorno on Saturday.

Coach Roberto Mancini rested his favoured strike partnership of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, joint top scorer in the Champions League with five goals to go with his 14 in Serie A, and Julio Cruz.

Cruz said it would be a mistake to focus on the second leg being at San Siro.

"We mustn't think that this might be an advantage. We have to try and do things well without thinking about the return leg at home, and try to kill off the match before the game in Milan," he told Sky Italia.

Luis Figo came on as a substitute against Livorno for his first appearance since breaking his leg in November, a piece of good news amid their injury problems in midfield where Patrick Vieira and Chilean playmaker Luis Jimenez are doubtful.

Remarkably, the clubs have met only once before in the European Cup when Inter prevailed 4-3 on aggregate in 1965 on the way to winning the trophy for the second season in a row.

Probable teams:

Liverpool: 25-Pepe Reina; 2-Steve Finnan, 23-Jamie Carragher, 4-Sami Hyypia, 6-John-Arne Riise; 11-Yossi Benayoun, 8-Steven Gerrard, 20-Javier Mascherano, 7-Harry Kewell; 18-Dirk Kuyt, 9-Fernando Torres

Inter Milan: 12-Julio Cesar; 13-Maicon, 2-Ivan Cordoba, 23-Marco Materazzi, 6-Maxwell; 4-Javier Zanetti, 19-Esteban Cambiasso, 28-Maniche, 5-Dejan Stankovic; 9-Julio Cruz, 8-Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Referee: Frank De Bleeckere (Belgium)

zing

IrishMike wrote: »

That simply does not happen, rafa still doesnt know his preferred team and only uses his preferred system for 2 out of 3 matches at most.

There is no preferred XI. There is no preferred 'system'. Rafa's system is all about trying to outwit the opposition - it seems to be more about nullifying the other teams strengths & playing on their weaknesses than it is on playing to our strengths. Therefore the preferred players & formation will change for each and every game.

Now I agree with that approach against big teams - but when you're up against minnows you really should be making them play football your way rather than trying to counteract the way they play.

monkey9

By Alan Hansen
Monday February 18 2008


The equation for Liverpool and Rafa Benitez is a simple one: if they have a bad result against Inter Milan tomorrow, the club will be deep in crisis.


You can argue there is still fourth place to play for but Liverpool are not a club where finishing fourth should be a cause for pride.

Liverpool are about winning trophies and if the Italian champions overcome a side who have just been knocked out of the FA Cup by Barnsley, their season will have finished before the end of February after a summer in which Benitez has spent £46m (€60m) on players.

I was watching the Barnsley game via a TV feed at Old Trafford and the problems were the same as they have been at Anfield for most of the season; when Liverpool did go a goal up, they never looked like rolling over Barnsley.

These days Liverpool rarely roll over teams at Anfield because under Gerard Houllier and then Benitez, the watchword has been caution. That is not a criticism, more an observation; some foreign managers, including Fabio Capello, are naturally cautious. But that cannot alter the fact that people come to Anfield and expect to see Liverpool attack; they do not come to see Liverpool field a lone striker against Wigan and Sunderland.

When a team struggle, it is their away form that almost invariably is the first to go. What is remarkable about Liverpool's season is that their home form has been distressing, not helped by a mixture of constant squad rotation and caution.

However bad their form at Anfield has been, no Liverpool player can blame the crowd. They have received unbelievable backing and patience from their supporters. The have deeper, better and more animated support than when I played. The reasons for failure lie elsewhere. Quite frankly, there have been too many lacklustre performances by too many lacklustre players.

Since Liverpool last won the championship in 1990, players have come in and out of Anfield on a conveyor belt of mediocrity. What successive Liverpool managers have failed to do is buy a player for £2-4m a few years ago, or £6-10m now, who performs well above expectations -- the kind of footballer Arsene Wenger regularly brings to Arsenal. The one exception to this rule has been Sami Hyypia, who is coming towards the end of his career now but who has been a fabulous servant to Liverpool.

Everything at a football club is about the players and they have not been good enough. Liverpool under Benitez have improved, but only in as much as that it used to be that if Steven Gerrard did not bail them out, they could forget about winning. Now it's Gerrard and Fernando Torres.

If you are completely reliant on two players to win games, that might be enough to win the Champions League. But you cannot possibly hope to compete for the title with such a narrow attacking base.

It is that record in the Champions League that has shielded Benitez from a backlash on Merseyside; to have reached two European Cup finals in three years is what has saved him because he would not have survived at Liverpool on his Premier League record. And unless they receive an influx of money to spend on high-class players, they are not going to win the championship next year either.

Embarrassing

However intimidating Inter Milan might be, the Champions League might save him again. However embarrassing Liverpool's defeat by Barnsley was, however hopeless the position in the Premier League, Inter Milan will not relish coming to Anfield. As we saw against Barcelona and Chelsea last year and against Juventus and Chelsea in 2005, few grounds can touch Anfield for passion and atmosphere.

In my 14 years at Liverpool, I experienced nothing like the sounds of those nights because the supporters are now so hungry for success. It is not even necessary for Benitez to win the championship to satisfy the people who pack the Kop, they just want to be seen to be challenging for it.

At Old Trafford on Saturday, Arsenal delivered one of their worst performances under Wenger, but because they are five points clear at the top of the Premier League, they can take a reasonably relaxed attitude to defeat. Liverpool, hopelessly adrift in the title race, cannot find any comfort.

Their season now hangs on one game. Inter Milan will rarely experience an atmosphere like they will tomorrow and it is up to the players to respond because, without question, they are playing for their manager's future. (© Daily Telegraph, London)

- Alan Hansen

monkey9

By Sam Wallace
Monday February 18 2008


The sense of despair gripping Liverpool's season after their FA Cup fifth round defeat to Barnsley was given voice by Jamie Carragher yesterday.


The skipper admitted that the team's current form could not simply be dismissed as a blip. "I wouldn't call this just a bad spell, it's been a lot longer than that," he said. "We realise we are not playing well enough."

It was an honest verdict on Liverpool who face Inter Milan in the Champions League at Anfield tomorrow at a time when the issues of the club's ownership, Rafael Benitez's future and a catastrophic slump in form are coming to a head. Carragher said that Liverpool had been prematurely written off before European encounters in the past, but no result in Benitez's four seasons has been as poor as Saturday's defeat. "It's not a matter of putting your finger on one reason," Carragher said, "it's simply because we have not been good enough."

The Italian champions face a Liverpool manager who seems ever more certain to depart in the summer. With no viable alternative in the short term there has been no suggestion that Benitez's departure will be imminent, even if his side are eliminated by Inter. Yet with the Champions League his only faintly realistic chance of a trophy, Benitez still dismissed claims he would have to win it to stay in a job. "I don't know too many managers who have won the Champions League," he said.

That 2005 Istanbul triumph is beginning to look ever more faded as the disillusionment in the dressing room with Benitez's tactics and selection becomes ever more evident on the pitch. The embarrassment against Championship side Barnsley was played out against more reports of a takeover from Dubai International Capital (DIC) who are understood to be positioning themselves for a bid. As the club enters a period of crisis on the pitch there seems even less appetite to make long-term decisions until the DIC situation is resolved.

Carragher said: "We're devastated, obviously. It's a major, major blow to go out of the competition to a lower league team at Anfield.

"We realise that's not good enough. This clearly isn't the best preparation for Inter. But we had the same situation last season, when we lost to Arsenal twice in the cups and people said we were finished before we'd even played Barcelona. But we got through on that occasion and hopefully this can be the same again.

"You get feedback from supporters all the time. Obviously they are not too happy about things at the moment. Myself and Stevie (Gerrard), because we are local lads, hear a lot from supporters and we are supporters ourselves. We aren't stupid, we know what is being said. The supporters are as disappointed as we are."

While there has been staunch opposition among Liverpool's support to owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jnr after they revealed their approach to Jurgen Klinsmann, that solidarity with Benitez at last seems to be dwindling. There were vastly reduced numbers at the Kop protest after the game on Saturday, a sign that patience is running thin with the manager. While the majority of the club's support would wish to see DIC in place of the Americans, their backing of Benitez is no longer quite so emphatic.

For their part, the Americans have not attended a game in person since the defeat to Man United on December 16.

Meanwhile, there are a growing number of players for whom contractual and selection issues mean that their future is in the balance. Xabi Alonso, John Arne Riise, Peter Crouch and Sami Hyypia are all potential departures in the summer. Harry Kewell's contract expires then and the deal for Javier Mascherano, while agreed, seems as far as ever from being signed.

In contrast, Inter beat Livorno 2-0 yesterday with two goals from David Suazo to go 11 points clear at the top of Serie A. They did so without strikers Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Julio Cruz who were rested with the Liverpool game in mind. Ibrahimovic has scored 14 goals in 20 appearances in the league and five in five in the Champions League. On Saturday, Benitez refused to acknowledge there was anything like a crisis at Liverpool and was adamant his team had created chances to win the match. "If you say that the players weren't working hard, I would say that's not true," he said.

Carragher said that the team were in no doubt as to how "poor" they were against Barnsley. "We have got to get over it," he added. "We can't do anything about all the things that are happening off the field. We just have to concentrate on improving the football side. There's nothing we can do about it, we're paid to play football and if we can start winning matches again then a lot of the other stuff can be put to bed."

monkey9

Rafael Benitez has reported no fresh injury concerns ahead of the Reds' clash with Inter Milan tomorrow night.
Only Daniel Agger and Andriy Voronin are definitely ruled out with both Fernando Torres and Martin Skrtel having recovered from knocks in time to figure against Roberto Mancini's side.

The Liverpool team trained at Anfield this morning as they finalised their preparations for the first leg of their Champions League last sixteen clash.

"The mood of the players is really good, probably better than people expect," said Benitez.

"Physically and mentally they are ready for the game on Tuesday. We have prepared well and I am confident we will be ready for a good performance.

"We know it will be difficult because Inter Milan are a good side who have won a lot of games this season, but we know that on our night we can beat anybody at Anfield and the players know what they have to do."

Asked if he had a message for the supporters after the disappointment of Saturday's Cup exit at the hands of Barnsley, he replied: "At Liverpool the fans say you will never walk alone and I am sure they will be behind us on Tuesday night.

"We know it will be another great atmosphere and I am sure they will play their part. We need their backing and their support."

ShiverinEskimo

monkey9 wrote:

t is up to the players to respond because, without question, they are playing for their manager's future.

Maybe they'll lose on purpose to get rid of Rafa...

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Maybe they'll lose on purpose to get rid of Rafa...

Or maybe Rafa is doing ****e on purpose to get rid of the yanks?!:D

mike65

kaimera wrote: »

fwiw, I mean a CL win won't help Rafas value on the market imo, not after the **** rest of the season.

I think you are wrong on this, if Rafa wanted a top-job in ELP then yes you are right (no vacancies anyway!) but back in Spain or in Italy (if Pool won CL again) 3 finals in 4 seasons and two of them wins would be considered an outstanding achivement and add greatly to his reputation. Such a record would match any previous managers achivements bar Bob Paisley 3 wins in 5 years and Miguel Muñoz who at Real Madrid won 2 finals and reached 2 others finals in 5 years. Few others come close.

Mike.

kaimera

But would the teams in Spain/Italy put up with a disaster of a domestic season?

It's a great record in Europe but those managers you mentioned had a great domestic record to go with it.

Mr Alan

Rafa, if he leaves Liverpool, could walk into pretty much any club he wanted outside of England.

monkey9

I think Rafa deserves more time, another season at least, for his achievements since he's arrived. But i can't see him being at the club next season.
If he does go, i'd like to see Slaven Bilic come in.

Melion

monkey9 wrote: »

I think Rafa deserves more time, another season at least, for his achievements since he's arrived. But i can't see him being at the club next season.
If he does go, i'd like to see Slaven Bilic come in.

Oh lord :eek::eek:

mike65

Heh! It would need to be either a Spaniard - someone like Cupor, Del Bosque or Ramos (!) or someone of huge reputation that any player would wish to play for like Jose*, and Gus Hiddink.

Mike

*what fans want is not important

Chardee MacDennis

kaimera wrote: »

But would the teams in Spain/Italy put up with a disaster of a domestic season?

It's a great record in Europe but those managers you mentioned had a great domestic record to go with it.

remember Rafa has already done the business twice in Spain.

machiavellianme

Call_me_al wrote: »

remember Rafa has already done the business twice in Spain.

Yes but La Liga and the PL are completely different kettles of fish in terms of whats needed to win them.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

Heh! It would need to be either a Spaniard - someone like Cupor, Del Bosque or Ramos (!) or someone of huge reptation that any player would wish to play for like Jose*, and Gus Hiddick.

Mike

*what fans want is not important

please tell me you dont actually believe this Mike?

Chardee MacDennis

machiavellianme wrote: »

Yes but La Liga and the PL are completely different kettles of fish in terms of whats needed to win them.

but realistically what premier league club that would match his goals would hire him? so winning it in europe is much more valuable to him than coming 4th in the prem.

StickyMcGinty

if we win 2-0 at anfield tomorrow night, will the same mob still be calling for Rafas head?

Let the man get on with his job, talking about possible replacements when theres still 13 games left in the season is rediculous.

Pighead

mike65 wrote: »

Mr Alan

No manager as far as I can recall was ever hired/not hired cos of what the fans might think. They are irrelevent to any such decision.

Mike.

Kevin Keegan?

mike65

Mr Alan

No manager as far as I can recall was ever hired/not hired cos of what the fans might think. They are irrelevent to any such decision.

Mike.

DSB

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

if we win 2-0 at anfield tomorrow night, will the same mob still be calling for Rafas head?

I'd imagine so.

Mr Alan

If rumours are to be believed Jose Mourinho was not hired by Liverpool before he went to Chelsea for the way that he celebrated at OT, viewed as not being "the liverpool way"

IF/when Rafa leaves/is sacked, his replacement will of course be appointed with the fans approval in mind, to say any different is crazy imo.

DC

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

if we win 2-0 at anfield tomorrow night, will the same mob still be calling for Rafas head?

I will. Don't see myself as part of a mob, though. One game doesn't change anything.

mike65 wrote:

No manager as far as I can recall was ever hired/not hired cos of what the fans might think. They are irrelevent to any such decision.

Well, the current owners might be afraid of a backlash from the fans, leading to bad goodwill, if they boot out Benitez now. They will probably wait until end of season when majority of fans are fedup with nothing to show for season.

mike65

OT - whats going on with boards - the posting order is getting jumbled up.

Mike.

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

IF/when Rafa leaves/is sacked, his replacement will of course be appointed with the fans approval in mind, to say any different is crazy imo.

I guess that depends on who owns the club when that happens. If it's still G&H (please let it be anyone but them) their past behavior suggests that supporters spproval will account for nowt.

zing

mike65 wrote: »

OT - whats going on with boards - the posting order is getting jumbled up.

Mike.

Multiple servers with time not in sync ?

Mr Alan

zing wrote: »

I guess that depends on who owns the club when that happens. If it's still G&H (please let it be anyone but them) their past behavior suggests that supporters spproval will account for nowt.

if its them, it could be anyone.

but it wont be them, whatever happens with Rafa. The yanks are on the way out.

StickyMcGinty

DC wrote: »

I will. Don't see myself as part of a mob, though. One game doesn't change anything.

well it has for the vast majority of fans on this board. Since the Barnsley game this thread as become "Liverpool's new manager rumours and discussions".

Theres no manager out there currently available who could do a better job than rafa imo. not with a paucity of transfer funds in the kitty.

Chardee MacDennis

Mr Alan wrote: »

If rumours are to be believed Jose Mourinho was not hired by Liverpool before he went to Chelsea for the way that he celebrated at OT, viewed as not being "the liverpool way"

IF/when Rafa leaves/is sacked, his replacement will of course be appointed with the fans approval in mind, to say any different is crazy imo.

thats not how it happened according to Mourinho at the time. he said during December of Houllier's last year, his agent spoke to Liverpool but they said that they were happy at the time with Ged but would come back to them if the situation changed. Then Chelsea contacted Mourinho and an agreement was reached over the coming months.

Liverpool refused to talk to about a new manager while Ged was still in charge and by the time he was gone Mourinho was off the market.

If i can find a link i will post it...

Mr Alan

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

Theres no manager out there currently available who could do a better job than rafa imo.

Agree 100%

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

but it wont be them, whatever happens with Rafa. The yanks are on the way out.

So I hope & pray but until I see something firm from > 1 reliable source I'll keep the bubbly on ice

Mr Alan

>1 reliable source?

IrishMike

monkey9 wrote: »

I think Rafa deserves more time, another season at least, for his achievements since he's arrived. But i can't see him being at the club next season.
If he does go, i'd like to see Slaven Bilic come in.

lol :D

stick-dan

stop writing rafa's obiturary for him. Christ every team has a slump. This is rafa's since he joined us. He has helped our defence keep more consequtive clean sheets than ever before, won us the f.a cup and brought us two two champo league finals winnning one, oh and lets not forget european super cup too,arhhhh leave it, he should be given another season.

zing

>1 reliable source?

More than 1

Mr Alan

and the one you have heard it from being? the echo?

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

and the one you have heard it from being? the echo?

I've not seen/heard anything firm from any reliable source. What I'm saying is 1 source won't be enough - it'll need to be backed up elsewhere.

Mr Alan

i would call Tony Barrett at the Echo about as reliable one can get in this day and age tbh.

~Rebel~

Lawro has been saying for the past few months that he guarantee's the americans will be out before Rafa. Not quite a reliable source or anything but still interesting.

Mr Alan

Plus i'd call JohnnyMac over at RAOTL fairly reliable and he is in no doubt.

monkey9

stick-dan wrote: »

stop writing rafa's obiturary for him. Christ every team has a slump. This is rafa's since he joined us. He has helped our defence keep more consequtive clean sheets than ever before, won us the f.a cup and brought us two two champo league finals winnning one, oh and lets not forget european super cup too,arhhhh leave it, he should be given another season.

Yeah, put it's background politics. Realistically, Rafa is gone come the summer. As i've said before, i want him in charge next season because over all, he's done a good job and needs time, but he won't get it.

Regards Slaven Bilic, i can see him being a top top manager and think he would do a great job at Liverpool.

zing

So would I but right now all we know from him - and others - is that talks are still said to be ongoing - while that in itself is great to know it's hardly worth celebrating is it.

e.g. there was a post on TIA (or some other forum site) a couple of weeks back that Gillet had supposedly agreed to sell his stake to DIC and a lot of people got into a flap about it thinking christmas had come early. But it wasn't confirmed by anyone else and got pulled from all the sites shortly afterwards. So many people claiming to be in the know but that's just leading to false dawns.

So as I said - until I see something firm from more than one source I consider to be reliable (and Tony Barrett is indeed one of those) then I won't start the celebrations just yet.

~Rebel~

monkey9 wrote: »

Regards Slaven Bilic, i can see him being a top top manager and think he would do a great job at Liverpool.

I agree that he'll be a future great manager, but this isn't the job to go into. Rafa micromanages every aspect of Liverpool. Bilic has never managed a club side before. Its just too much to ask for a first club job. Few years experience and then maybe. I see him managing West Ham in the next few years, then maybe making the step upwards.