Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

Zing, i have it on good authority that the post you are refering to above was removed and written off as ****e at request of people involved with Liverpool so as not to damage the potential deal.

monkey9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I agree that he'll be a future great manager, but this isn't the job to go into. Rafa micromanages every aspect of Liverpool. Bilic has never managed a club side before. Its just too much to ask for a first club job. Few years experience and then maybe. I see him managing West Ham in the next few years, then maybe making the step upwards.

Maybe it is too early, but then again...look at Frank Rijkaard. That's his first job at Barca isn't it?

Mr Alan

spot on

(in reference to post below, damn time machine!)

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote: »

Zing, i have it on good authority that the post you are refering to above was removed and written off as ****e at request of people involved with Liverpool so as not to damage the potential deal.

I agree with that.

I caught a post from someone claiming to have a bit of knowledge of the deal from the banking side of things on RAOTL about 2mins before the whole topic got pulled.

basically just said DIC had a general agreement of price on the club, but that the bank have something in place where even if the loan that was taken out is paid back immediately (which DIC would be doing) that they would still get up to 80% of the potential 18months interest. DIC apparantly aren't willing to match G&H valuetion AND pay this amount off so were trying to get the bank to lower their required amount and trying to get G&H to lower theirs to make the deal workable for all parties.

Thats just what i remember of it, but that was the general gist.


Monkey Thats true, but i think in Barca the management job is more just a first team affair. I dont think many clubs outside of England allow the manager to have the level of involvement in all levels of the club that the likes of Rafa and Wenger have. Also at Barca, Rijkaard had Ten Cate with him.

zing

Mr Alan wrote: »

Zing, i have it on good authority that the post you are refering to above was removed and written off as ****e at request of people involved with Liverpool so as not to damage the potential deal.

That's entirely true but again it was just one source. I want to believe it and I do believe it's a matter of when rather than if but until word starts to come from > 1 source ...

Generally you'll often only start to get leaks when the talks open up to a wider group - bankers, lawyers, accountants, etc.. So far it's all so quite that I don't believe we're at that stage just yet. Right now we're being drip fed via the likes of TB and I suspect that drip feeding is ultimately being driven by Parry & Moores - both trying to put right their mistake from last year.

Karmafaerie

Call_me_al wrote: »

thats not how it happened according to Mourinho at the time. he said during December of Houllier's last year, his agent spoke to Liverpool but they said that they were happy at the time with Ged but would come back to them if the situation changed. Then Chelsea contacted Mourinho and an agreement was reached over the coming months.

Liverpool refused to talk to about a new manager while Ged was still in charge and by the time he was gone Mourinho was off the market.

If i can find a link i will post it...

Ha!

I wouldn't believe him if he said the sky was blue!

monkey9 wrote: »

Maybe it is too early, but then again...look at Frank Rijkaard. That's his first job at Barca isn't it?

2 years in charge of Holland, and a year and a half in charge of Sparta Rotterdam, not to mention the years as Assistant for Holland.

Peyton Manning

Mr_Alan, can you get a message through to the guy on the forum you go to that knows Carragher to tell Jamie to injure Matterazzi? Please, I hate him so much that I'm actually half serious...

stick-dan

Yeah well do you want rafa to clean the players boots for them two because at the moment he is managing every aspect of that club. He has no help and he is going to crack if he doesn't have the fans support. Come on like what more can the guy do and regards this bilic lad, the croatian coach is no where near good enough to be in any job in liverpool let alone manage our club. But that's besides the point. Benitez must stay!

Melion

If Rafa were to get sacked this season it will set the club back 10 years. Everything he has done behind the scenes and with the youth will be forgotten and most of them kids will end up being shipped out.

Dub13

Sons Of Shankly

Loads of people have asked me to keep them up to date on the Sons Of Shankly campaign,so here is a clip of the last meeting.

Clip Of Meeting

Helix

Melion wrote: »

If Rafa were to get sacked this season it will set the club back 10 years. Everything he has done behind the scenes and with the youth will be forgotten and most of them kids will end up being shipped out.

hes not exactly been prolific at bringing them through tho has he

stick-dan

hes not exactly been prolific at bringing them through tho has he

Well he only really started off working with his own youths at the start of last season so what do you expect like????He gave pongolle,le tallec and mellor a chance in some of the biggest games that they will ever play in their careers didn't he?Have you forgot *******kos ???

Helix

but i mean the guy sells on/releases a fair whack of kids he brings in doesnt he?

stick-dan

Helix wrote: »

but i mean the guy sells on/releases a fair whack of kids he brings in doesnt he?

like who?

Helix

hop onto soccerbase and look at the players hes bought, and then sold

theres a fairly high amount of them, almost 50% of his purchases iirs

Mr Alan

Helix, Melion is not talking about first team players, he is talking about youths and reserves. players for the future.

Tusky

Liverpool reserves are top of the table. He has brought in some really interesting talent.

stick-dan

Thank you tusky

DSB

stick-dan wrote: »

Come on like what more can the guy do

Good results might be nice.

Daemonic

Melion wrote: »

If Rafa were to get sacked this season it will set the club back 10 years. Everything he has done behind the scenes and with the youth will be forgotten and most of them kids will end up being shipped out.

All the work Rafa is doing behind the scenes is one of the main reasons I hope the team turn the results around and he gets another season. And if he does and next season we're closer in the league as we hoped we would see this season and the progress is visible in the results then all well and good.
But, if the team don't turn a corner and it becomes obvious that the first team no longer believe in Rafa and his tactics then all the kids in the world won't do us any good because if the first teamers start getting itchy feet there's nothing that can really be done to keep players at the club if they want out.
Thats the real worry for me.

Melion

Helix wrote: »

hop onto soccerbase and look at the players hes bought, and then sold

theres a fairly high amount of them, almost 50% of his purchases iirs

What kids has sold on after buying them?

Guy:Incognito

He seems to be offloading/loaning with a view to seling the young English lads and bringing in loads of foreing youngsters. Dont like to see that . Players like Anderson is sitting in the youths/reserves and at 20 he realy should have at the very least made his competetitive first team debut at this stage.

Kimbot

Stekelly wrote: »

He seems to be offloading/loaning with a view to seling the young English lads and bringing in loads of foreing youngsters. Dont like to see that . Players like Anderson is sitting in the youths/reserves and at 20 he realy should have at the very least made his competetitive first team debut at this stage.

Anderson might have been given a better chance this season if we didn't have such a poor season. I would imagine he will get a game before the season is out.

Guy:Incognito

jonny24ie wrote: »

Anderson might have been given a better chance this season if we didn't have such a poor season. I would imagine he will get a game before the season is out.

The chance has been there to at least put him on the bench though. There was a young Spanish kid on the bench the other week. The first Derby match was a gimme with the form we were in at the time and the way Rafa likes to rest players at times. That would have been an ideal game for Anderson. Could have come on at 3/4-0 and had a run at them.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

The chance has been there to at least put him on the bench though. There was a young Spanish kid on the bench the other week. The first Derby match was a gimme with the form we were in at the time and the way Rafa likes to rest players at times. That would have been an ideal game for Anderson. Could have come on at 3/4-0 and had a run at them.

Errr. That young Spanish guy was on the bench because we had injuries to Agger, Hyypia & Arbeloa. He is a CB. Anderson is not going to make it at Liverpool when we have Lucas, Mascherano, Alonso & Gerrard who play in his position.

I'm all for reserves being used IF they are good enough. People who go on and on about using reserves annoy me though. The difference in quality between a premiership match and a reserve match is unthinkably massive. The players that annoy us most, Riise, Kuyt, Voronin would shine in the reserves team.

~Rebel~

Is there some other Anderson im not aware of? Paul Anderson, the lightning right winger, has been on loan all season at Swansea and has been scoring a lot of goals. Hence why he hasn't been available to be on the subs bench...

All the same im not sure if he'll get his chance, i think a lot of it will come down to how he does in preseason after this year. A good showing, and a good attitude and he'll get his chance.

On our youths though, i've never ever been as excited about our youths as now. Id just as happily sit and watch a reserve game as i would a senior game. Some really top notch players there at around the 17/18ish age group like Spearing, Flynn, Darby, Insua, Hammill (dont think he'll make it though), Plessis, Huth, Linfield, Nemeth and even Leto (who im disappointed seems to have disappeared a bit, has he gotten injured or something?)

And then in the actual youths theres some unreal gems who look like they'll surpass nearly all the slightly older lads (bar Nemeth, Insua and Plessis i think). Ajdaravic, Pourie, Pacheco, Amoo, Collins and Bruno could all become very special players. I've heard a lot of good things about Kacaniklic too but i've not seen him play yet. Still a good chances we'll get james mccarthy after he leaves Hamilton after this season.

Stky10

jonny24ie wrote: »

Anderson might have been given a better chance this season if we didn't have such a poor season. I would imagine he will get a game before the season is out.

He won't. He's spending the season on loan at Swansea. And he's only 19.

He did really well his first season when they won the youth cup. Last year though he was pretty much pants for most of it, amid rumours of drinking etc etc. So far this season with Swansea he's done really well according to reports.

Melion

Jesus, thank christ someone finally put ye right on who Paul Anderson is. The lad is amazing and will definitely play next year, has been excellent for Swansea this year.

zing

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Leto (who im disappointed seems to have disappeared a bit, has he gotten injured or something?)

Not injured afaik - just seems to be stuck in a too good for the reserves/not quite good enough for the 1st team hole atm which is unfortunate.

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Errr. That young Spanish guy was on the bench because we had injuries to Agger, Hyypia & Arbeloa. He is a CB. Anderson is not going to make it at Liverpool when we have Lucas, Mascherano, Alonso & Gerrard who play in his position.

I'm all for reserves being used IF they are good enough. People who go on and on about using reserves annoy me though. The difference in quality between a premiership match and a reserve match is unthinkably massive. The players that annoy us most, Riise, Kuyt, Voronin would shine in the reserves team.

I was usign Anderson as an example. How do we know who can or cant make the step up to the first team without giving hem a chance. Who's to say Anderson wouldnt work out better than Lucas? Offloading him without giving him a chance is pointless. What about all the foreign youngsters being brought in, how will we know if they can makke the step up? Or should we just offload them all now and not bother with youth/rewserve football?

Melion wrote: »

Jesus, thank christ someone finally put ye right on who Paul Anderson is. The lad is amazing and will definitely play next year, has been excellent for Swansea this year.

Not accordign to Tusky who has already decided that whats in front of him means he's not going to make it. Unfortunately Rafa seems to have similar opion of English youngsters.

At 19/20 he really should have been trued at the top level t this stage though. Look at the ages these young lads are coming through at these days. A lot of the time they are established first teamers at his age (Ronaldo/Rooney/Fabregas/Terry etc).

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Is there some other Anderson im not aware of? Paul Anderson, the lightning right winger, has been on loan all season at Swansea and has been scoring a lot of goals. Hence why he hasn't been available to be on the subs bench....

Thats what I was sayign further up. Why is he being loaned out at this stage when other foreign youngsters are being kept around and the odd time making the squad. There would have been a few chances to at the very least have him on the bench a few times. Other English youngsters have gone through this sort of hing and then been moved on (Melor/Ostemobor)

Melion

Ajdarevic looks absolute quality. Everything in the u-18's goes through him, he reminds me so much of Alonso in his first season with us. Will definitely have a big future in the game barring a serious injury

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

I was usign Anderson as an example. How do we know who can or cant make the step up to the first team without giving hem a chance. Who's to say Anderson wouldnt work out better than Lucas? Offloading him without giving him a chance is pointless. What about all the foreign youngsters being brought in, how will we know if they can makke the step up? Or should we just offload them all now and not bother with youth/rewserve football?

Our first team needs more quality. Its not the time to start testing out reserves. If someone is absolutely tearing up the reserves it means they may be good enough for the first team. You can tell when someone has real quality.

Melion

Tusky wrote: »

Our first team needs more quality, its not the time to start testing out reserves. If someone is absolutely tearing up the reserves it means they may be good enough for the first team. You can tell when someone has real quality.

There are a lot of our reserves and youths who i see as being good enough for the first team as hard as it is to believe. I think we have something similar to United in the early 90's. And i know a lot of people will laugh at me but how many of those people will have seen the players im thinking of.

~Rebel~

El Zhar has gotten a few chances alright at least, a lot of the rest are gone on loan, Lindfield, Anderson, Guthrie, Antwie, Roque.

As Melion said though, Ajdaravic really looks super. I think him, Pourie, Nemeth, Pacheco, Bruno, Insua and maybe Plessis and Amoo and Hopefully Spearing will have futures at this club in some respect.

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Our first team needs more quality. Its not the time to start testing out reserves. If someone is absolutely tearing up the reserves it means they may be good enough for the first team. You can tell when someone has real quality.

So in the periods of the season when we cant buy players and I'm sure Rafa knew who was or wasnt coming in Jan and while were playing pants, where does this quality come from. We could do worse than playign the likes of Anderson, even in the cups. As I said, he likes of the Derby game was pretty much a gimme. Ideal time to have a youngster on the bench to bring on at 3 or 4 nil.

Melion

Tusky wrote: »

Well Im guessing we will see them get more gametime next season when 7 subs are allowed on the bench. Lucas can barely get a game in the team though, which doesn't bode well for Anderson. Id rather see Lucas get any gametime thats left over from the others rather than the reserves.

Lucas is a central midfielder and has to fight past Gerrard, Masch or Alonso to get a start. Anderson is a right winger who only has Pennant and Benayoun ahead of him

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

So in the periods of the season when we cant buy players and I'm sure Rafa knew who was or wasnt coming in Jan and while were playing pants, where does this quality come from. We could do worse than playign the likes of Anderson, even in the cups. As I said, he likes of the Derby game was pretty much a gimme. Ideal time to have a youngster on the bench to bring on at 3 or 4 nil.

Well Im guessing we will see them get more gametime next season when 7 subs are allowed on the bench. Lucas can barely get a game in the team though, which doesn't bode well for Anderson. Id rather see Lucas get any gametime thats left over from the others rather than the reserves.

Melion

Stekelly wrote: »

Not accordign to Tusky who has already decided that whats in front of him means he's not going to make it. Unfortunately Rafa seems to have similar opion of English youngsters.

Rafa signed Anderson, he has come out and said he has a future at the club and played a part in pre-season last summer(or the summer before, cant remember off hand, he scored a cracking volley against Wrexham though).

Whats the point in having him sitting in our reserves playing largely meaningless games when he can go out and played 40 competitive games and get his experience there.

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

Rafa signed Anderson, he has come out and said he has a future at the club and played a part in pre-season last summer(or the summer before, cant remember off hand, he scored a cracking volley against Wrexham though).

Whats the point in having him sitting in our reserves playing largely meaningless games when he can go out and played 40 competitive games and get his experience there.

I agree. Anyone that Rafa thinks has REAL potential to add the first squad should be loaned out to a premiership team for a year to see if they have what it takes. Thats so much more beneficial than having them come on for 15 minutes at the end of games a few times a season.

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

Rafa signed Anderson, he has come out and said he has a future at the club and played a part in pre-season last summer(or the summer before, cant remember off hand, he scored a cracking volley against Wrexham though).

Whats the point in having him sitting in our reserves playing largely meaningless games when he can go out and played 40 competitive games and get his experience there.

As I said though, if he is a real talent, surely he should be on the fringes at least and looking to break through at this stage.Where he i now then something might be lacking with Rafa in not having him further on in his developement.

He'll be 20 come the start of next season, thats plenty old enough o be a first teamer if you are good enough.

I'd like to see him as a fist teamer in the next year or two, assuming he's good enough, but Rafa seems to be buyign young foreign reserves and youths en mass.

zing

Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

If he had played more of the youths/fringe players he'd have been accused of tinkering too much/over rotating/not letting the team gel/etc.. But he didn't play them so he's accused of not giving them a fair chance.

I agree some of the young players look like they could be destined for great things. Others have mentioned him as well but I've been very impressed with Ajdarevic any time I've seen him. Unfort I've not gotten to see any of the reserves games this year to see how others have been progressing.

stick-dan

Stekelly wrote: »

Thats what I was sayign further up. Why is he being loaned out at this stage when other foreign youngsters are being kept around and the odd time making the squad. There would have been a few chances to at the very least have him on the bench a few times. Other English youngsters have gone through this sort of hing and then been moved on (Melor/Ostemobor)

Look at Paul Anderson this year. He could have been sitting in a reserve locker room going largely unnoticed but instead he is at swansea having a great season. Like come on if those of you (not victimising you here SteKelly, just using you as an example;)) who insist on giving out about rafa's policies at least get it right when it comes to be the players you are talking about not making the bench.Like is there a loan rule that lets him sit on the liverpool bench when he is at another club. Come on like. If whoever is complaining doesn't have their facts right maybe they shouldn't be complaining at all;)

Guy:Incognito

stick-dan wrote: »

Look at Paul Anderson this year. He could have been sitting in a reserve locker room going largely unnoticed but instead he is at swansea having a great season. Like come on if those of you (not victimising you here SteKelly, just using you as an example;)) who insist on giving out about rafa's policies at least get it right when it comes to be the players you are talking about not making the bench.Like is there a loan rule that lets him sit on the liverpool bench when he is at another club. Come on like. If whoever is complaining doesn't have their facts right maybe they shouldn't be complaining at all;)

My point was that I dont think he should have been loaned out in the first place. He's at the age where I think he should be making an impact in the first team. Puttiing youngsters on the bench is not rotating out players from the first team who are doing well, so I cant see why anyone would criticise Rafa for doing it, Especially against he bottom few clubs. He's in danger of going the way of other Englih youngsters. Spending years in the ressies, getting loaned out then sold on in their early 20's.

zing

Loaning players out is good for them - they can only learn soo much in training and need to get competitive game time (reserves doesn't really count) under their belts if they're ever going to make the grade. What better than to send them to a championship team or one of the struggling prem sides (e.g. Guthrie at Bolton) where they're likely to feature week in week out - far better than having them bench warming the odd game hoping for a cameo. If they struggle at that level they've little chance of making the first team

stick-dan

exactly anderson and guthrie will play more of a role next year because they are now experienced enough to not be overwhelmed.I love watching guthrie play. Definite future player for liverpool. Remind me of gerrards early days. Out to impress and impress he shall.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

My point was that I dont think he should have been loaned out in the first place. He's at the age where I think he should be making an impact in the first team. Puttiing youngsters on the bench is not rotating out players from the first team who are doing well, so I cant see why anyone would criticise Rafa for doing it, Especially against he bottom few clubs. He's in danger of going the way of other Englih youngsters. Spending years in the ressies, getting loaned out then sold on in their early 20's.

What do you mean hes at an age were he should be making an impact in the first team ? That differs from player to player. It may turn out that hes not good enough for Liverpool but would do better at another team. I could understand your point if we had been selling young players who have gone on to become top class players...but we haven't.

Melion

I think Insua and Nemeth should replace Riise and Kuyt in the squad for the weekends game. Both were excellent for the reserves again tonight. Strange that Pacheco wasnt in the squad, maybe hes in for the Inter game

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

I think Insua and Nemeth should replace Riise and Kuyt in the squad for the weekends game. Both were excellent for the reserves again tonight. Strange that Pacheco wasnt in the squad, maybe hes in for the Inter game

If Crouch was any good he'd have put away 2 or 3 of the sitters Kuyt set up for him in the last couple of games and everyone would be saying how Kuyt is coming into form with a goal and a coupl eof assits in 2 games. I fail to see why Crouch not being able to score should affect that.

Not saying he's going to start banging goals in but he's doing well.

Nunu

I was just watching a repeat of Liverpools reserve game at Newcastle and the commentator mentioned that it was a pity Leto hasn't been able to play for the reserves because of a problem with his paperwork/passport...they've kept that very quiet.

Were any of you aware of this?

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He wants to get rid of the 4 As to make such a system work - Arbeloa, Agger, Aurelio and Alonso. They are not good enough to mount a serious Premiership title challenge. I reckon Babel has potential for the future but isn't quite good enough yet. I don't think such a defensive system is suited for the PL however as Fergie found out a few seasons ago.

A team of the following would work for Liverpool in my view:

---

Reina

---

Finnan---Carragher

---

Dunne----Bale or Bridge

---

Masch

---

Aimar

---

Gerrard

---

Benayoun or Modric

---

Torres

---

Defoe

---

Unfortunately for the Scousers they have too much tosh like Kewell and Riise who just aren't good enough.

I found this post I made back on the 26th of January because I remember getting an unmerciful load of stick back then as a result of it from defiant Liverpool fans. I was told my suggestions were 'moronic', that I was 'talking out of my arse', 'didn't know what I was talking about' etc. yet look at where Liverpool are now. Out of the title race, out of the FA Cup after titanic struggles with the mighty Havant & Waterlooville, Luton and of course Barnsley and now facing a crucial European game with Serie A leaders Inter with Rafa Benitez reportedly on the way out if the European adventure ends prematurely.

All I want to say is - told you so. I predicted they hadn't a hope of maintaining a decent challenge.

Alonso has been useless - a fact acknowledged by Rafa and the player.

Arbeloa and Aurelio have likewise been very poor and contrary to what I know many of you think, I still maintain that Agger isn't good enough for a team looking to launch a title assault. I'm eager to know if Tusky stands by what he said to me back then:

Tusky wrote:

The reason you have got a bad reaction is that you have picked out some of our best players. Alonso & Agger would be amongst our best & Arbeloa has been in the top 3 performers this year. That is why its a moronic, ill informed, laughable statement. Not because you were saying that the team wasnt good enough, but by picking out players who definitely are good enough.

I think it's evident that these players are liabilities like I said and quite clearly are NOT good enough. PS Tusky, would you still say no to Jermain Defoe now? I thought he took his debut goal for Portsmouth against Chelsea quite well. I hear they're a pretty decent side. Then again, what do I know?

My two cents on Liverpool's current predicament is that Rafa's time is up and he's taken you as far as he can. I predict Inter will knock out Liverpool when the two legs are over and done with and that effectively will be that.