Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

FACT.

Rafa rotates less than Ferguson and Wenger.

I'd be happier if the players ditched their underperforming policy tbh.

Back that up please cause i for one dont believe it for a second.

missingtime

zing wrote: »

You forgot the !!!! Anything that has FACT followed by a bunch of exclamation marks is always true. People will doubt you now

Spud83

Did think he knew his best team. Will actually be interesting to see what it is if this is true.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

FACT.

ALERT!

The next bit is very true. It cannot be argued with.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa rotates less than Ferguson and Wenger.

Weren't them stats for last season though? Anything for this season?

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd be happier if the players ditched their underperforming policy tbh.

Yes, true.

Or maybe Rafa needs to realise that his SQUAD isn't as strong as that of ManU Arsenal and Chelsea, which is why you can compare the rotation policies, but not the affects they have.

When Ferguson and Wenger and Grant rotate, they are putting stronger players into the team than Rafa can.

Squad for Squad, Liverpool are the weakest of the "BIG 4".

zing

IrishMike wrote: »

Back that up please cause i for one dont believe it for a second.

I've posted a link on here before showing he made the exact same number of rotations as Fergie last season and the season before that he was within 1 or 2 of Mourinho over the entire season. Analysis was done by an independent soccer stats firm but buggered if I can remember who they were now.

Don't remember any mention of Wenger in there though

Mr Alan

DesF wrote: »

Weren't them stats for last season though? Anything for this season?

No, they are for this season, i dont have a link to em and couldnt be arsed looking but SSN news even reported the same the other day, much to the presenters shock!:eek:

stick-dan

Mr Alan wrote: »

FACT.

Rafa rotates less than Ferguson and Wenger.

I'd be happier if the players ditched their underperforming policy tbh.

Well said i'd second that! But i would like to see certain players given a run in the squad,Benayoun,crouch,babel being the main two

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, they are for this season, i dont have a link to em and couldnt be arsed looking but SSN news even reported the same the other day, much to the presenters shock!:eek:

Yeah, fair enough.

But my other point stands though?

Squad isn't good enough to be rotated as much as Utd's Arsenal's or Chelsea's.

_blank_

zing wrote: »

Don't remember any mention of Wenger in there though

I'd say Wenger is up there too tbh, he often makes wholesale changes for Carling Cup games, sometimes picking nine or ten different players.

Yeah, I remember them stats alright. I wonder has anyone done them for this season.

missingtime

Whoever rotates the most doesn't matter.

If Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal rotate more than Livepool well done cos its working.

Its not working for Liverpool so it must change.

Mr Alan

DesF wrote: »

But my other point stands though?

Squad isn't good enough to be rotated as much as Utd's Arsenal's or Chelsea's.

Probably not. But players should be performing a hell of a lot better which they arent. If they were perhaps the gap would be closer in which case Benitezs tactical genius is games would come into play. The way we are at the minute, the players are playing so badly, he doesnt stand a chance.

Mr Alan

stick-dan wrote: »

But i would like to see certain players given a run in the squad,Benayoun,crouch,babel being the main two

Crouch has been given chances, its up to him to take, i dont believe he does enough to merit the starting place people think he deserves.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

Probably not. But players should be performing a hell of a lot better which they arent.

Ah, now here's the problem.

A manager should only rotate if he trusts his players to perform when they are put in, Darren Fletcher for example. Didn't play for six weeks or so, then has the game of his life on Saturday. "Rotated" Liverpool players never seem to do this. Do the players not like being "Squad Players".

This all says one thing to me. Rafa has lost the trust of the fringe players. Sure, players like Torres, Stevie G, Reina will perform well, they are in the team every week, but when it comes to the likes of Kuyt, Crouch and Voronin, neither of these three are doing what they should be. There has to be a reason for this. One player in a position not doing it, fair enough. But three? That is a problem, and more of a problem than "players not doing the biz".

Mr Alan wrote: »

If they were perhaps the gap would be closer in which case Benitezs tactical genius is games would come into play. The way we are at the minute, the players are playing so badly, he doesnt stand a chance.

The manager HAS to, simply HAS to, shoulder some of the blame if players aren't performing.

It's all very well hailing Rafa as some kind of tactical genius, and I don't doubt it, but if the players don't want to play for him, then it isn't worth a shíte.

Ardent

Mr Alan wrote: »

FACT.

Rafa rotates less than Ferguson and Wenger.

I'd be happier if the players ditched their underperforming policy tbh.

I don't buy it. Everyone and their dog is of the opinion he rotates too much - they all can't be wrong, can they?

Benitez rotates his best players but persists with donkeys (e.g., Kuyt). Resting a red-hot Torres against Birmingham (0-0 bore draw) so he can play against Reading 3 days later in the Carling Cup is the kind of thing that annoys the supporters. Anyone got stats on how often Fabregas has been benched this season?

monkey9

Right **** this. I'm about to head home from work and am leaving on a positive note. Liverpool to win two nil. Gerrard and Torres!!!

missingtime

If Yossi comes on I would just like to say:

"Yossi Smells"

~Rebel~

monkey9 wrote: »

Right **** this. I'm about to head home from work and am leaving on a positive note. Liverpool to win two nil. Gerrard and Torres!!!

I just took Ibrahimavic out of my Fantasy Champions League team and made Gerrard captain. Genius or kiss of death - We'll find out in a few hours!


Oh and that reminds me, Yossi has the ghey, his father was a hamster and his mother smells of elderberries!

Mr Alan

DesF wrote: »

The manager HAS to, simply HAS to, shoulder some of the blame if players aren't performing.

I agree. I still dont think he should get the sack though. i think he should get more time to win back the players trust "if" it is a case that he has lost it.

Ardent wrote: »

I don't buy it. Everyone and their dog is of the opinion he rotates too much - they all can't be wrong, can they?

They all are wrong.

Ardent wrote: »

Benitez rotates his best players but persists with donkeys (e.g., Kuyt). Resting a red-hot Torres against Birmingham (0-0 bore draw) so he can play against Reading 3 days later in the Carling Cup is the kind of thing that annoys the supporters. Anyone got stats on how often Fabregas has been benched this season.

I find the Torres example hilarious, as far as i am aware that was the only game he has ever been rested for. and it came after he had a piss poor game against Porto during the week, he was rested and bounced back with a string of great performances. Ever occur to you that perhaps Benitez resting him in that game might have had something to do with that? Another poor performance so early in his Liverpool career could have crippled his confidence.

Benitez NEVER rests his big players. Torres,Carragher,Agger,Reina,Mascherano,Gerrard and to a lesser extent Finnan, Pennant and Arbeloa, will ALWAYS play. the players that are rotated are the places that are up for grabs. wingers/left full and another striker.

Crouch has been given chances and not impressed.
Babel looks a little lost when he starts games.
Pennnant has struggled with injuries.

I agree sometimes i'm a little pissed off Babel doesnt get more time, or subs arent made earlier (something he is starting to get better at) but i dont think its a sacking offence.

Mr Alan

Ardent wrote: »

Anyone got stats on how often Fabregas has been benched this season?

probably about the same as Gerrard.

Spud83

Fabregas
Total (Club) 31 (2) 12 9 0
League 22 (0) 7 8 0
FA Cup 2 (0) 0 0 0
League Cup 1 (1) 0 0 0
European/Others 6 (1)

Gerrard
Total (Club) 35 (4) 16 4 0
League 23 (1) 8 3 0
FA Cup 3 (2) 3 0 0
League Cup 2 (1) 1 0 0
European/Others 7 (0) 4 1 0

So Gerrard has actually played 4 more games 2 of those being sub appearances. Fabregas was injured for a while though. All in all around the same.

I have said it before I don’t think its Rafa rotating players that is the problem, it more the system and positions being changed. How many positions has Kuyt played, Vorninan, Finnan, even Carra being moved to RB, Yossi has been shifted around the park, the same with Babel. Switching from one striker with two winger forwards to two strikers, to one striker with Gerrard/Yossi in behind.

Chardee MacDennis

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Oh and that reminds me, Yossi has the ghey, his father was a hamster and his mother smells of elderberries!

don't forget that he is a mediocre footballer...

2-1 tonight - Torres x2

~Rebel~

After spending yesterday being happy with all the potential youth at the club, i've decided i want Rafa to have his extra year, regardless what happens this year. Its been a joke of a season, but we've waited long enough and he's brought us back to having a team capable of challenging on paper, which is the first step to challenging on grass.

When you look past the team's current flunk, the bigger picture is the best its been in a long long time and based on that, I think Rafa deserves to at least see out his contract.

But a few things id like to see.
a) A more consistent style so pool impose themselves on a game rather then playing to oppositions weakness's.
b) Top notch winger and striker brought in, giving us a very settled very obvious best 12 or so outfield players, with only 1 or so of the remaining squad players making it into any particular match day squad at any one time.
c) Earlier changes, ideally attack minded rather then neutral or even defensive at time (and ideally using horses for courses - no more kuyt on the wing).

Chardee MacDennis

~Rebel~ wrote: »

After spending yesterday being happy with all the potential youth at the club, i've decided i want Rafa to have his extra year, regardless what happens this year. Its been a joke of a season, but we've waited long enough and he's brought us back to having a team capable of challenging on paper, which is the first step to challenging on grass.

When you look past the team's current flunk, the bigger picture is the best its been in a long long time and based on that, I think Rafa deserves to at least see out his contract.

agree 100%

Melion

Yossi is shít and not worth a place in our reserves let alone a place in such an important squad.

COME ONE YOSSI!!!!

DeadSkin

Squad Stats from here click on England on the left hand side and select the team for stats. These are in the Prem only.
Liverpool have started with 21 of their squad players, as have Arsenal & Man Utd. Chelsea have started with 25 of their squad, Avram the Rotator, doesn't have the same ring for the tabloids does it .

walshki

I want to leave today on a positive note so here's looking for a 2-0 victory with torres scoring both.

However, regarding Rafas statement that he won't rotate did he actually just say he'd play his strongest team for every game? Isn't that part of the problem - he always does that but tries to base his best team on the opposition and as such playing his strongest 11 doesn't mean it'll be the same 11 every week. So I'm not sure what to make of that - its in his nature to have a specific tactical approach and line up for different games so can he change his nature?

Anyway, like some others I'm somehow more positive towards Rafa today. Maybe its the pre champions league buzz and just wanting to be positive to all things Liverpool but I'm hoping they come out and produce the 'spark' we've all being waiting for. For all thats gone before I still think thats possible and that they'll never be beaten badly but if we click going forward we could actually produce a great performance - maybe that'll then set up the rest of the season.

Anyway

COME ON THE REDS

Ardent

Mr Alan wrote: »

Probably not. But players should be performing a hell of a lot better which they arent. If they were perhaps the gap would be closer in which case Benitezs tactical genius is games would come into play. The way we are at the minute, the players are playing so badly, he doesnt stand a chance.

I think Benitez is the author of his misfortune here. His rotation policy doesn't create an incentive for players to perform or fight for a place in the team - must be disheartening to see Kuyt as a perma-presence in the team.

~Rebel~

DeadSkin wrote: »

Avram the Rotator, doesn't have the same ring for the tabloids does it .

How about "Avram the Alternator"?

redzerdrog

~Rebel~ wrote: »

How about "Avram the Alternator"?

I like:D

Unearthly

So who is going to watch RTE's coverage of the Liverpool match

gucci

Unearthly wrote: »

So who is going to watch RTE's coverage of the Liverpool match

yeah i will be, im sure the trappattoni appointment will be discussed for a good 10 mins or so before they move on to the Liverpool-rotation-benitez repeatitive speech that has been used so many times before, athough possibly tonight the discussion will have some relevence because of the reds form and selections since the last champions league outing.

mada999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's time for the players to roll up the sleeves and be counted. And believe me, the players should be taking most of the blame for the performances over the past few months. When they don't perform anywhere near what they are capable of in terms of technical and tactical dilligence you can only blame the coach so much. They ****ing owe him one.

Lets go.

too true!

Unearthly

John Giles won't know how the team will play, as he has never seen that 11 play together before.

mike65

Official line up (my formation)

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Aurelio
Gerrard-Masch-Lucas-Babel

---

Torres-Kuyt.

Subs: Itandje, Riise, Benayoun, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Crouch.

Mike.

mada999

Call_me_al wrote: »

agree 100%

Agree!

mada999

mike65 wrote: »

Official line up (my formation)

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Aurelio
Gerrard-Masch-Lucas-Babel

---

Torres-Kuyt.

Subs: Itandje, Riise, Benayoun, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Crouch.

Mike.

oh no Kuyt is on ... Benitez has some balls I'll give him that - Lucas on!!
Hope Gerrard is on the right and lucas is in the center...

Come on red men!!

Tusky

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I found this post I made back on the 26th of January because I remember getting an unmerciful load of stick back then as a result of it from defiant Liverpool fans. I was told my suggestions were 'moronic', that I was 'talking out of my arse', 'didn't know what I was talking about' etc.

I had a good giggle reading this post. You obviously still dont know what you are talking about. I never said we would go on to win anything. I merely took you up on some of your assessments of certain players. The team hasnt been good enough this season...but the players you picked out were laughable.

Our form since your post. W2 D2 L2 - Pretty consistent with out crappy form up until that point. You didnt predict anything.

yet look at where Liverpool are now. Out of the title race, out of the FA Cup after titanic struggles with the mighty Havant & Waterlooville, Luton and of course Barnsley and now facing a crucial European game with Serie A leaders Inter with Rafa Benitez reportedly on the way out if the European adventure ends prematurely.

Your original post was made about four weeks ago.
All that has happened since you made that post is that we were knocked out of the fa cup and our crappy league form continued. I never took issue with you saying we wouldn't win anything, I took issue with the players you chose to say weren't good enough. Arbeloa, Agger & Alonso in paticular. Agger has been out all season injured. Alonso has been out for most of the season and has struggled to find form since overcoming his injury.

I actually find your post really hilarious. You said Agger, Alonso, Arbeloa & Aurelio weren't good enough and come back three weeks later when we have been knocked out of the cup saying 'I told you so'. Agger, Arbeloa & Aurelio have barely featured in the last four weeks.

Arbeloa played 69 minutes. (not a full game)
Aurelio played around 240 minutes (2.5 games)
Alonso 180 minutes (2 games)
Agger 0 minutes (0 games)

All I want to say is - told you so. I predicted they hadn't a hope of maintaining a decent challenge.

We weren't in the title race when you made your post and we aren't in it now. Again, you predicted nothing.

Alonso has been useless - a fact acknowledged by Rafa and the player.

Alonso has been off form alright. He is more than good enough though and has proved it on more than one occasion. At the moment he is 3rd/4th choice behind Gerrard, Mascherano & Lucas. Are you saying he isnt good enough to be 3rd/4th choice ?

Again, I find it really funny. Our midfield pairing all season has been Mascherano - Gerrard. Then you post 'omgz Alonsos not good enough so Liverpool wont win anything'. Alonso barely plays in the weeks that follow and you come back saying 'I told you so'.

You've embarrassed yourself a bit there mate...

Arbeloa and Aurelio have likewise been very poor and contrary to what I know many of you think, I still maintain that Agger isn't good enough for a team looking to launch a title assault. I'm eager to know if Tusky stands by what he said to me back then:

Eh, of course I do. Arbeloa & Aurelio have barely played since you made that post. They are both injured. I never took issue with your comments about Aurelrio. I think hes too injury prone to be in the team. Arbeloa has been one of our best performers all season and can play in any of the back four positions. Every team needs a reliable versatile defender and I think he does a good job. He hasn't even played a full game since you made that post. Are you blaming our cup exit on someone that wasn't even in the squad ?

Also, and read this part carefully, Its funny that you picked 3 defenders and a defensive midfielder. We have conceded the the second least amount of goals this season in the premiership. We have lost 3 games in the premiership, only bettered by Arsenal who have lost 1.

To me, its obvious our problem has been not killing off games and being unable to turn draws into wins. The problem lies with our attacking players. THAT is why I accused you of not knowing what you were talking about.

I think it's evident that these players are liabilities like I said and quite clearly are NOT good enough. PS Tusky, would you still say no to Jermain Defoe now? I thought he took his debut goal for Portsmouth against Chelsea quite well. I hear they're a pretty decent side. Then again, what do I know?

I dont want Jermaine Defoe, we should be aiming higher. Much higher. I find those football manager posts to be silly though.

My two cents on Liverpool's current predicament is that Rafa's time is up and he's taken you as far as he can. I predict Inter will knock out Liverpool when the two legs are over and done with and that effectively will be that.

In summary.

1)Liverpool in a bad run of form and are out of Carling Cup & Title race

2)You predict they wont challenge for the title because Agger, Alonso, Aurelio & Arbeloa aren't good enough.

3)I say that I believe Agger, Alonso & Arbeloa are good enough. Its our attacking players that have been under performing

4)In the weeks that follow the named players barely feature and bad form continues

5)You come on saying "I toldz you so! Those players I named aren't good enough."

Sillyness.

mike65

Inter

---

Cesar
Maicon Cordoba Materazzi Maxwell
J.Zanetti Cambiasso Chivu Stankovic

---

Ibrahimovic Cruz

Mike.

OPENROAD

mike65 wrote: »

Official line up (my formation)

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Aurelio
Gerrard-Masch-Lucas-Babel

---

Torres-Kuyt.

Subs: Itandje, Riise, Benayoun, Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Crouch.

Mike.

Not a very good team, a poor side according to Eamon Grumpy

Daemonic

Unearthly wrote: »

John Giles won't know how the team will play, as he has never seen that 11 play together before.

Classic, perfect qoute of the first thing he said

gucci

is skertal not eligable to play??

PHB

I wonder expect the team to line up more like this

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Aurelio

---

Masch-Lucas

---

--Kuyt---Gerrard----Babel--

---

Torres

---

---

Rafa doesn't rotate more than other people. It's just that he rotates at poor times and in the wrong ways.

gucci

Unearthly wrote: »

John Giles won't know how the team will play, as he has never seen that 11 play together before.

hahaha he said it straight out with his first quote!! Are you actually John Giles :D

Dam, you beat me with my prediction of the Trappatoni discussion!!

What is it with these guys and inability to pronounce players names souness with "Imbram-HAM-o-vich"

walshki

You thought Giles first comment was funny. Souness re Liam Brady's possible role with Trap:

'What he (Trap) needs is someone standing on this shoulder and blowing in his ear.'

Fantastic. Every manager should have someone doing that.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I wonder expect the team to line up more like this

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Aurelio

---

Masch-Lucas

---

--Kuyt---Gerrard----Babel--

---

Torres

---

---

Rafa doesn't rotate more than other people. It's just that he rotates at poor times and in the wrong ways.

Good chance it will be that alright. I hate Kuyt in that position.

On Inters team. I thought Chivu was a full back?!!?

Chardee MacDennis

gucci wrote: »

What is it with these guys and inability to pronounce players names souness with "Imbram-HAM-o-vich"

it was spelt Ibrahanovich on the CL Teamsheet, i'm sure that threw him off.

gucci

walshki wrote: »

You thought Giles first comment was funny. Souness re Liam Brady's possible role with Trap:

'What he (Trap) needs is someone standing on this shoulder and blowing in his ear.'

Fantastic. Every manager should have someone doing that.

:D:D ah this is too easy!! :D:D i was pissing meself when i heard that!!

also dunphy "this guy wont make any silly or stupid decisions" then goes on to pointing out trappattoni foolishly took off an attacker for a defender when he was 1-0 Vs Swedan in the world cup! Sorry i shouldn't point out dunphy being hyprocritical......its way too easy!

Guy:Incognito

Would have preferred Alonso to Lucas. Xabi seems to be getting left out a bit lately.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

Would have preferred Alonso to Lucas. Xabi seems to be getting left out a bit lately.

Well hes just coming back form injury and he played 90 minutes on Saturday.

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Well hes just coming back form injury and he played 90 minutes on Saturday.

That 90 mins would suggest he's fully fit. This is a huge game, moreso because of what happened Saturday and Alonso is a safer bet, and more likly o create something imo than Lucas. IT's a very big game to be giing him so much responsibility in.