Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

monkey9

Jimmy Rice 20 February 2008


Dirk Kuyt believes his Kop end strike against Inter will put a full stop on what he describes as a 'difficult period' in front of goal.
The winter months saw the goals dry up for Kuyt, who was also omitted from the latest Dutch squad by Marco van Basten.

But, following a goal against Barnsley and the opener on another heart-stopping night at Anfield, the frontman is confident the good times are about to roll.

He told Liverpoolfc.tv: "It was a great moment because everyone knows how important it is to score a goal like that. I think I have a difficult period behind me and I just want to look forward now.

"I'm happy to score but the most important thing is that we won and beat Inter in the first match, though we still have a game to play so we'll keep focused."

Two late goals from Kuyt and Steven Gerrard mean the Reds travel to Italy with a commanding lead in three weeks' time.

But despite dominating throughout, and having a one-man advantage following the first-half dismissal of Marco Materazzi, Kuyt and co had to wait 85 minutes to make a breakthrough.

The Dutchman added: "Italians are really good in defence and they did really well even with 10 men, but we stayed patient and together and in the end got two goals.

"It was funny because I said to Stevie that maybe we have to keep hold of the ball and keep the clean sheet but he said we want to get another goal and he was right. He got a great goal and 2-0 is a great result, though we have one game to go in Milan, so it will be a tough night again."

Though the victory will go some way to easing last weekend's FA Cup disappointment, no one at Melwood is likely to lose perspective on the season as it stands.

Kuyt, for one, is at a loss as to how he and his teammates can go from defeat against Barnsley to making one of the best sides in Europe look ordinary.

"I think that's the magic of football," he said. "You lose three days ago against Barnsley, where everybody is expecting you to beat them easily, and then tonight you see a whole different team but with a lot of the same players.

"We didn't play well in the last few matches but we know how we have to play in the big games, especially in the Champions League. All the players worked really hard as a team and we had confidence in ourselves because we know we have a lot of quality. I think we showed that tonight."

The only time Liverpool have ever lost a two-goal first-leg lead in Europe was, coincidentally, against Inter in the 1964-65 European Cup semi-final.

When told of that famous night 43 years ago, Kuyt insisted it wasn't something he'd dwell on.

"We just want to keep looking forward and not too much in the past," said the forward.

missingtime

Couldn't resist with all the talk about Pedigree

prendy

i hope we play with the same intensity in the league.
i think we should play more or less the same team from now until at least the away leg. I would have alonso instead of Lucas as the only change. Gerrard in the free role caused their defence all kinds of problems and we should continue in this way.

missingtime

missingtime wrote: »

Couldn't resist with all the talk about Pedigree

LOL:D:D

Top breeders recommend it!

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Aurelio/Finnan-both did excellent,hopefully Aurelio can stay fit for the remainder of the season.

Both were very poor going forward and their final ball was shocking
Aurelio was also extremely wasteful from dead balls all of which were overhit

Kuyt-thought he was absolutely excellent. delighted for him.

A deflected goal is the only reason you are saying this.
Is definitely out of his depth at the level and its only his willingness to run
non stop for 90 minutes that gets him into the team.
Is it just me or is he missing a yard of pace from last season?
I remember him being able to get away from players with his pace which he
doesnt seem to be able to do now.

Torres-Always looks so dangerous anytime he gets the ball.

Pace, power, good in the air and is a good finisher.
Best striker Liverpool have had since fowler

Lucas-couple of dodgy moments, but also showed great vision at times picking some excellent passes.

Completely disagree with this.
His passing was awful, all passes either going across the field or straight back
to where they came from. Doesnt seem to be able to provide the creative
outlet that liverpools midfield needs and is definitely not a playmaker.
Very disappointing performance

ShiverinEskimo

IrishMike wrote:

A lot of people here rate Lucas and I honestly dont know why. He is not a playmaker, his vision is poor and his range of
passing is limited.

Mr Alan wrote:

Lucas-couple of dodgy moments, but also showed great vision at times picking some excellent passes.

Priceless - One of you is right.

Why am I the only one thinking Gerrard was poor last night? Bar his goal he appeared to hit balls directly into the first defender be it a cross or a set piece. Otherwise he was running into space and jogging back after his fellow attacking midfielders were broken down.

Al - I just don't see how pretty much your entire 11 came off with a positive rating in your analysis.

Reina and Hyypia had a couple of dodgy indecisive moments in the box where neither appeared to want to clear/catch.

Carragher was left standing in the middle of the park by Ibrahimovic and it took Finnan and Hyypia to snuff him out.

But overall your centre-halves had little to do and so hardly deserve negative comments.

Kuyt worked hard again (as usual) but for his goal and one cross to Hyypia was responsible for loss of possession quite a number of times.

On the other hand,

Torres was amazing. His pace and awareness on the edge of the box were one of the few threats all night and I'd have liked to see him score if choosing between all work/no product Kuyt. Or one lucky cross/shot Gerrard.

I'm not trying to wind anyone up. Just honestly thats the way I saw last night and perhaps am not allowing the joy of a fantastic result cloud my view of the actual play.

mike65

Lucas was a lightweight in the middle - if Alonso were fitter and more confident I'd have selected him no question. All this talk from some would suggest Liverpool were playing a thrusting forward game that had Inter on the back foot for 90 mins. In truth it ws all too often the usual pinging sideways and slight backwards as no-one was willing to take the ball at feet and run, pass and move (you know like the old days!). There was a severe paucity of movement in the middle and near the edge of the box, while getting the ball wide usually meant one of Babel or Finnan cut back inside to either Aurelio or Carra.

Mike.

mayordenis

i remember kuyt creating at least two other chances that should 100% of been scored by torres and hyypia,
i love torres but lads the sun doesnt shine out of his arse, he missed 1 great chance and regardless of a pretty good save it was that, a bad miss, and the only other thing he really did was make a decent shot out of a nothing situation, our best striker last night was blond and pretty ugly.

stick-dan

DC wrote: »

Your eternal optimism is inspiring.

Great result. Nearly ruptured my larynx when Gerrard scored. With a lucky draw (i.e. one of Schalke / Porto / Roma), we might have a sniff at another champions league final.

Still, one swallow doesn't make a summer. A couple of poor results in the league and the pressure will be right back on Benitez. It's no use being able to raise your game maybe 5 times a year in the champions league. I want to see consistency.

But, no more grumbling for today. Just going to enjoy last night's result and pray for a Man U reversal against Lyon. There would be some comfort this season in not seeing Man U win the CL.

It is eternal optimism an optimism that i don't understand why it is not being utilised by the rest of the clubs fan(Not you lot but anyone who is a doubter,or on the wall sort of person.)

Let's look forward to the future. The year we won in istanbul we had a team where any of the players that were in it then apart from a few would struggle and probably not even get in our squad now. We have improved immensely since then, albeit so have the other teams but we are exceptional most european nights so why not for another few. I'm not going to even mention possibilities anymore but We are good enough. The team needs to bond together exceptionally well now and grind out results,get the confidence back.With what benitez said yesterday that rotation is largely gone now lets hope it does the trick.

LET'S HOPE!

IrishMike

mike65 wrote: »

Lucas was a lightweight in the middle - if Alonso were fitter and more confident I'd have selected him no question. All this talk from some would suggest Liverpool were playing a thrusting forward game that had Inter on the back foot for 90 mins. In truth it ws all too often the usual pinging sideways and slight backwards as no-one was willing to take the ball at feet and run, pass and move (you know like the old days!). There was a severe paucity of movement in the middle and near the edge of the box, while getting the ball wide usually meant one of Babel or Finnan cut back inside to either Aurelio or Carra.

Mike.

Agree Mike and my contention is the reason for this is that we didnt have
anyone capable in the middle to spray quick ball around.
Gerrard was more or less a free man and was popping up all over the place
so to fully utilise him you needed a playmaker.
At one stage Mascherano was hitting 40 yard crossfield passes to the right
wing over Lucas head because if he passed it to him it would end up back at
hyppias feet. Thats not his job but was great to see he has the ability to do
it. At one stage he even dribbled 30 yards up the left wing only to run out
of room because he was isolated. Mascherano was immense, lucas was
anonymous

monkey9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Lets not get too carried away, thats half the reason most people hate pool fans.

The other half is cause we're awesome

Ha Ha! Brilliant post Rebel. I love it.

Mr Alan

The rotation thing is so funny. I think the problem all stems from nobody except Rafa knowing wat his strongest team is. therefore when we dont win a lot of people will be of the opinion that it wasnt his strongest team out and thats why we lost.

machiavellianme

Instead of sacking Rafa, maybe its time we start experimenting with 2 managers. A Mourinho-esque no nonsense dictator type for the PL who sends out a team of 11 dependables and keep Rafa for Europe and Europe alone. He would have to learn to make do with whoever or whatever is available, with rest for the key players only an option once the League has been wrapped up tho.


Or we could just keep Benitez and keep going on like this for another year, but a 2-0 win over a depleted Inter mustnt overshadow recent terrible performances. Remember, we've won nothing yet. One good result doesnt make our season and last night had all the hallmarks of being another wretched performance of total domination with no end product, but for 2 late goals.

Pighead

IrishMike wrote: »

At one stage Mascherano was hitting 40 yard crossfield passes to the right
wing over Lucas head because if he passed it to him it would end up back at
hyppias feet. Thats not his job but was great to see he has the ability to do
it. At one stage he even dribbled 30 yards up the left wing only to run out
of room because he was isolated. Mascherano was immense, lucas was
anonymous

Would have to disagree with that. As with most other people I thought he had a super game last night but the one area where he was poor was his passing. He was hitting 40 yard crossfield balls but they were almost always off target and there was another occasion where he burst from midfield, had loads of time and lobbed a pass into the penalty area into nobody.

_blank_

machiavellianme wrote: »

Instead of sacking Rafa, maybe its time we start experimenting with 2 managers.

Liverpool had two managers before.

iirc, it didn't really work out all that well.

Click

mike65

Fvcking stupid idea that was!

Mike.

citytillidie

When it comes to Liverpool in Europe i would rather read the European press than the English or Irish press, as Liverpool are respected on Mainland Europe for there history in the compition and there more recent form of reaching 2 finals in 3 seasons and winning one of them.

The English and Irish media simply dont like Liverpool the way they like their darlings in Manchester and London. If that had off been Arsenal or Manchester United last night then Dunphy would have been full of praise for the English team and saying how they stopped Inter from playing.

machiavellianme

DesF wrote: »

Liverpool had two managers before.

iirc, it didn't really work out all that well.

Click

Wouldnt count the Houlier Evans fiasco, in retrospect, twas more like Evans showing Houlier the ropes before stepping down.
Apparently, we also had two managers 1892-96 (W. E. Barclay and John McKenna). In finding that out, I noticed Rafa's stats. Of the 207 games he has presided over, we have won 116, drew 40 and lost an incredible 51. How can anyone defend a manager who loses 25% more games than he draws? (Even Houlier wasnt that bad - he drew more than he lost)

For 2 managers to work, they need to be exclusive of each other and both just making do with the available squad. Neither would have any input over games they are not directly responsible.

prendy

Fvcking stupid idea that was!

+1

_blank_

machiavellianme wrote: »

Wouldnt count the Houlier Evans fiasco

So, because I've shown your idea to be a bit silly, you "don't count" the proof that it doesn't work.

Showing the ropes my hole.

They were Co-managers, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

Pighead

citytillidie wrote: »

The English and Irish media simply dont like Liverpool the way they like their darlings in Manchester and London. If that had off been Arsenal or Manchester United last night then Dunphy would have been full of praise for the English team and saying how they stopped Inter from playing.

And why are Arsenal and Utd media darlings? Because they play wonderful fluid attacking football which is very easy on the eye. Liverpool play a different style which while sometimes effective is rarely easy on the eye. This is probably the reason for the media bias.

citytillidie

Pighead wrote: »

And why are Arsenal and Utd media darlings? Because they play wonderful fluid attacking football which is very easy on the eye. Liverpool play a different style which while sometimes effective is rarely easy on the eye. This is probably the reason for the media bias.

United have been the media darlings for a very long time. Even when not winning things

Pighead

citytillidie wrote: »

United have been the media darlings for a very long time. Even when not winning things

Yes but they have always tried to play the game in a way which was pleasing to the eye. Its like Jimmy White. Won fcuk all but the crowd loved him because of his style of play.

monkey9

Utd have been media darlings since the Munich disaster. A lot of sympathy around that time for the club.

citytillidie

Pighead wrote: »

Yes but they have always tried to play the game in a way which was pleasing to the eye. Its like Jimmy White. Won fcuk all but the crowd loved him because of his style of play.

You can point out when United came media darlings but thats a touchy subject.

machiavellianme

DesF wrote: »

So, because I've shown your idea to be a bit silly, you "don't count" the proof that it doesn't work.

Showing the ropes my hole.

They were Co-managers, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

Probably is a silly idea, but its increasingly obvious Rafa can only handle Europe and cups. If someone else took charge in the PL and kept Rafa away from these games (rather than a traditional Co-manager role) things might fare more favourably? Surely it couldnt be any more stupid an idea than keeping Benitez and letting him ruin another chance at the PL next year?

monkey9

machiavellianme wrote: »

Probably is a silly idea, but its increasingly obvious Rafa can only handle Europe and cups. If someone else took charge in the PL and kept Rafa away from these games (rather than a traditional Co-manager role) things might fare more favourably? Surely it couldnt be any more stupid an idea than keeping Benitez and letting him ruin another chance at the PL next year?

I've said it before, Rafa deserves more time for what he's achieved at the club so far. He's an intelligent bloke who will figure the Premier League out

ShiverinEskimo

machiavellianme wrote: »

Probably is a silly idea, but its increasingly obvious Rafa can only handle Europe and cups.

Aye he handled the cup real well last Saturday. He is a Europe manager. Full stop.

citytillidie

After last night game I would also like to praise the Inter fans,

They and AC Milan have should respect for You'll Never Walk Alone, unlike fans in England.

Inter fans clapped when the ground was singing it last night and AC Milan fans respected it in the two Finals.

Always had respect for AC Milan and there fans as they played 1st game in Europe after Hillsborough, AC Milan requested the game be stoped after 6mins for a Minutes silence and before the game the AC fans had sung You'll Never Walk Alone

IrishMike

monkey9 wrote: »

I've said it before, Rafa deserves more time for what he's achieved at the club so far. He's an intelligent bloke who will figure the Premier League out

Yes but if it takes 10 years and £500m spent on players is it worth it?
I think not.

citytillidie

IrishMike wrote: »

Yes but if it takes 10 years and £500m spent on players is it worth it?
I think not.

Thats just like the Inter chairman he has spent that amount in about the same amount of time.

monkey9

Re last night, i thought it was a good performance but typical of how the season has gone, well at least until the goal. Dominated, should have killed the game off, but at times couldn't even wound it. We need to be more clinical in front of goal and for the stick that Rafa gets, he can't go out and put the ball in the net for them.
I agree with what Souness said last night about the sending off in that Inter would have been exactly the same whether or not he'd recieved the red card.
Reina, Carragher and Hyppia played fine, but were never really troubled.
Finnan and Aurelio got up and down the line well
In midfield, well what can you say about Mascherano. He's a four foot two, stumpy Hamann and i love him. Really need to sign him asap. The fact that Lucas was playing suggests that maybe Alonso still isn't match fit. He was the one who lost possession for Barnsley's winner. Maybe he's fallen out with Rafa. I though the game was perfect for him last night to pick passes off.
Babel was lively without being penetrable. Gerrard i though was fairly quiet for his standards, but of course is always likely to produce what he did come up with in the last minute. Kuyt put in his usual work rate performance capping it off with a goal at last. That's two in two for him now. What a run. He reminds me of a young Pele.
Torres was always a threat and forced their keeper into a good save in the second half.
Hopefully we've done enough, i think we have but as someone said earlier, all it takes is an early goal from Inter and it becomes a terrifying night. I think we will score over there though which should end the tie.

IrishMike

citytillidie wrote: »

Thats just like the Inter chairman he has spent that amount in about the same amount of time.

And has won 2 leagues in a row and are about to make it 3.
Plus he has had 4 or 5 managers in that time.

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

I've said it before, Rafa deserves more time for what he's achieved at the club so far. He's an intelligent bloke who will figure the Premier League out

Im not so sure he's arsed figuring it out. He hasnt seemed to be taking it as seriously as Europe thus far. And its not like he's only started either. I genuinely wonder if he really cares about winning the Premiership and that he says what he says about it just to appease the fans. actions speak louder than words.

monkey9

mayordenis wrote: »

i remember kuyt creating at least two other chances that should 100% of been scored by torres and hyypia,
i love torres but lads the sun doesnt shine out of his arse, he missed 1 great chance and regardless of a pretty good save it was that, a bad miss, and the only other thing he really did was make a decent shot out of a nothing situation, our best striker last night was blond and pretty ugly.

You know mayordenis, years ago you'd be hung for such blasphemy

monkey9

IrishMike wrote: »

Yes but if it takes 10 years and £500m spent on players is it worth it?
I think not.

Yeah but in fairness, the RTE lads were saying he has spent about 150 million since he arrived but how much as he brought in on sales of players plus the money earned on the runs to the finals of Europe and in the domestic cups

citytillidie

IrishMike wrote: »

And has won 2 leagues in a row and are about to make it 3.
Plus he has had 4 or 5 managers in that time.

Yea they were handed one league and last season league was not the same as teams where starting on minus points.

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

Yea they were handed one league and last season league was not the same as teams where starting on minus points.

And Juve were in Serie B!

leninbenjamin

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I really dont think the sending off changed the game very much when you look at the half hour Materazzi was on the field. They still offered nothing going forward and set out their stall to defend.

uhh... so they planned on defending for the entire game, yet lost their best defender. that won't affect the performance much will it?

seriously rebel i think that's a ridiculous hypothesis. would Pool be able to defend as well without Carra? not a hope.

the extra man gave Pool more space in the midfield, which means Gerrard and the fullbacks could effectively just throw themselves forward without repercussion. Liverpool simply wouldn't have had as much opportunity to create chances otherwise. you'll rarely see an Italian team so vulnerable defensively, Liverpool really should have put the tie to bed last night, but they didn't and the Italians have a chance to regroup and get back in this tie.

Spud83

IrishMike wrote: »

And has won 2 leagues in a row and are about to make it 3.
Plus he has had 4 or 5 managers in that time.

So all Liverpool need is for Arsenal, Chelsea, and Utd (Maybe Everton) to get involved in some big match fixing scam so they all get kicked out of the division or have points taken off them.

IrishMike

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah but in fairness, the RTE lads were saying he has spent about 150 million since he arrived but how much as he brought in on sales of players plus the money earned on the runs to the finals of Europe and in the domestic cups

But i dont see how buying players and selling them on a few months later for
a few hundred thousand in profit can be seen as a good thing
He has overhauled a lot of the squad but how much better are most of the signings over what was there already?
For that he bought agger, torres, alonso and reina that improve the first team
Maybe you could say arbeloa on his day
The rest are the same quality as what was already there
No player out of that 4 would play in any top 3 or even top 5 teams in the
league and to be honest not all of those 4 would start either
Seems a tad wasteful to me

* Im persuming that 150m doesnt include mascherano

Spud83

IrishMike wrote: »

But i dont see how buying players and selling them on a few months later for
a few hundred thousand in profit can be seen as a good thing
He has overhauled a lot of the squad but how much better are most of the signings over what was there already?
For that he bought agger, torres, alonso and reina that improve the first team
Maybe you could say arbeloa on his day
The rest are the same quality as what was already there
No player out of that 4 would play in any top 3 or even top 5 teams in the
league and to be honest not all of those 4 would start either
Seems a tad wasteful to me

* Im persuming that 150m doesnt include mascherano

Eh we will take Torres if ya dont want him, VDS is getting on a bit so we will take Reina too even just to help Foster along, wouldn't mind the other two in our squad either, wouldn't start either of them at the moment though.

ShiverinEskimo

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah but in fairness, the RTE lads were saying he has spent about 150 million since he arrived but how much as he brought in on sales of players plus the money earned on the runs to the finals of Europe and in the domestic cups

Regardless of where the money came from its still 150m spent no matter how you look at it.

Might not have been 150m gifted from the owners, but money spent is money spent.

monkey9

IrishMike wrote: »

But i dont see how buying players and selling them on a few months later for
a few hundred thousand in profit can be seen as a good thing
He has overhauled a lot of the squad but how much better are most of the signings over what was there already?
For that he bought agger, torres, alonso and reina that improve the first team
Maybe you could say arbeloa on his day
The rest are the same quality as what was already there
No player out of that 4 would play in any top 3 or even top 5 teams in the
league and to be honest not all of those 4 would start either
Seems a tad wasteful to me

* Im persuming that 150m doesnt include mascherano

Reina would get in the Arsenal team. Torres would get in any of the top three team. Who's playing right back for Utd? Can't remember. Arbeloa would probably get there. Agger would certainly be in the squads

IrishMike

monkey9 wrote: »

Reina would get in the Arsenal team. Torres would get in any of the top three team. Who's playing right back for Utd? Can't remember. Arbeloa would probably get there. Agger would certainly be in the squads

I didnt say individually they wouldnt make the teams i said all 4 would not get
into any top 5 team.
Torres and Reina are the only 2 who would get into any other team and Reina
wouldnt even make the Chelsea team.
Agger, arbeloa and alonso would not start in the other teams either.
That was the point i was trying to make (badly worded, i apologise)

monkey9

IrishMike wrote: »

I didnt say individually they wouldnt make the teams i said all 4 would not get
into any top 5 team.
Torres and Reina are the only 2 who would get into any other team and Reina
wouldnt even make the Chelsea team.
Agger, arbeloa and alonso would not start in the other teams either.
That was the point i was trying to make (badly worded, i apologise)

Ah i wouldn't neccessarily agree. They're all good players and i think all four could potentially play in a title winning team. It depended on who else would be in the team etc. I don't think those players have been the cause of Liverpool's problems.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. Have to say Cyrus that was a pretty stupid thing to say to be honest.

how was is stupid we've been to two finals out of three, believe it or not that proves we have the 'pedigree' to do it again...

anyway i think almost everything you post is pretty stupid too so i suppose we are even

i love the way a big liverpool european wins galls united fans, its pretty sad to be honest i mean ye will probably win the league, win the fa cup, yet a liverpool european win stills drives you lads nuts!

drink it in fellas

dobsdave

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Sorry mate but this is the sort of thing that drives people to despise Pool fans.


I could just as easily come back with remarks but I wont stoop to the level your idiotic ramblings. the fact that u think winning it twice (including a treble) ISNT pedigree says it all about u to be honest. Im breaking the rules of my sig here by writing back to your rucbbish. But i dont want to talk about pedigree because I live in the present day.


Pedigree doesnt mean u are just gonna stroll through and win it again. But sure, just keep playing the history card whenever u want to have a go, suppose thats wat worsks for u. if thats all you've got to throw around then thats your problem. Me, I like nostalgia as much as the next guy but I like to talk about the current goings on rather than remind everyone I talk to about history.

My god, did you read my post?
I was replying to the person who was making out that Liverpool supporters were living on a European cup final win 25 years ago/history etc.
I pointed out that Liverpool had been in two of the last three finals and won one of them, are those goings on current enough for you?
Nothing about the 'history card'.
Nothing about 'strolling through' this seasons champions league.

Idiotic ramblings? take a look at your own post mate.

ButcherOfNog

monkey9 wrote: »

Kuyt put in his usual work rate performance capping it off with a goal at last. That's two in two for him now. What a run. He reminds me of a young Pele.

leninbenjamin

Cyrus wrote: »

i love the way a big liverpool european wins galls united fans, !

you would call last night a big win? a game where Inter didn't really show up and handed the victory to you on a platter? are we talking about the same game? frankly, Liverpool achieved the bare minimum that would be expected of them all things considered.