Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

yom 1

Tusky wrote: »

And on it goes...

Most likely outcome is Hicks owning 100% of the club. He can barely afford to buy the club, how is he going to fund transfers ?

I just dont get where he thinks he can get the money from to purchase the club - he had so much trouble just to get the refinance deal. He doesnt want to put his own money in. Talks are of him diluting his other business ventures but is this true? Considering he has said that he planned to take money from liverpool to plow into his american football team I cant see him doing the opposite now? How he cant see that £25m, whats that roughly $50m, in little over a year is not worth taking:eek::mad::mad::mad:

Tusky

spockety wrote: »

there is no official release on it.. just an AP article..

Setanta Sports News are reporting that Tom Hicks has said he HAS NOT rejected an official offer, but that he 'remains unwilling to sell'... whatever that means..

Sounds to me like hes holding out for more money. Why didnt DIC just buy the club for 200 odd million last year ?

zing

Tusky wrote: »

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/soccer/wires/03/04/2080.ap.eu.spt.soc.liverpool.takeover.bid.3rd.ld.0194/index.html

That's not official though is it - it's from the AP who have been known to jump the gun and get things wrong in the past. Say I'm clutching to straws if you will but I don't believe the pair would suddenly issue a joint statement given that the pair of them don't speak and that Gillet has indicated that he is willing to sell his stake.

zing

yom 1 wrote: »

I just dont get where he thinks he can get the money from to purchase the club - he had so much trouble just to get the refinance deal. He doesnt want to put his own money in. Talks are of him diluting his other business ventures but is this true? Considering he has said that he planned to take money from liverpool to plow into his american football team I cant see him doing the opposite now? How he cant see that £25m, whats that roughly $50m, in little over a year is not worth taking:eek::mad::mad::mad:

It's not just the where does he think he'll get the money from - even if he does get it where does he think he'll get the further 300m he'll need next autumn for the stadium on top of the existing 350m loan.

Melion

I would have posted that link but i knew it wouldnt be enough to please people here and i would only be told "its not official"

Mr Alan

exactly, thats the only link anyone has. and its not official.

yom 1

zing wrote: »

It's not just the where does he think he'll get the money from - even if he does get it where does he think he'll get the further 300m he'll need next autumn for the stadium on top of the existing 350m loan.

:eek: forgot that:eek:

DIC are right he is living in dreamland!!!

spockety

Tusky wrote: »

Sounds to me like hes holding out for more money. Why didnt DIC just buy the club for 200 odd million last year ?

It's all old news at this stage, but the DIC negotiators took a personal affront to David Moores wanting to hear out Gillett and Hicks once they returned as a duo (Gillett was on his own at the start and wasn't convincing Moores of his ability to pull it off on his own). They basically told Moores and Parry to go and do one, and that they had no interest in doing business with them because they had been DIC'ed around.

BTW, the truth of it is that you should consider all stories baloney until you see an official statement from either DIC, or Liverpool FC on liverpoolfc.tv.

mike65

Lads this is just another bout in a heavy-weight 12 round match.

Mike.

Melion

Must be round 28 by this stage

el rabitos

what a fcuking mess.

if i'm an agent with a talented player looking for his next big move i wouldnt let him anywhere near the club.

the only plus is we wont actually need any money in the summer at this rate. who the hell would want to join us. theres no way right now we could compete with any other top team for a player with the current state the clubs in.

total joke

Tusky

spockety wrote: »

It's all old news at this stage, but the DIC negotiators took a personal affront to David Moores wanting to hear out Gillett and Hicks once they returned as a duo (Gillett was on his own at the start and wasn't convincing Moores of his ability to pull it off on his own). They basically told Moores and Parry to go and do one, and that they had no interest in doing business with them because they had been DIC'ed around.

BTW, the truth of it is that you should consider all stories baloney until you see an official statement from either DIC, or Liverpool FC on liverpoolfc.tv.

I mean, I know what happened, I followed the story closely. It just seems so childish of DIC to pull out their offer because Liverpool were hearing offers from other investors. Specially when you are talking about such a large amount of money.

spockety

Tusky wrote: »

I mean, I know what happened, I followed the story closely. It just seems so childish of DIC to pull out their offer because Liverpool were hearing offers from other investors. Specially when you are talking about such a large amount of money.

I think it was more that DIC thought they were assured of the deal. And they practically were.. remember at the time there were official statements on the web site about it, Gerrard and Carra came out saying they had met the DIC guys and how great they were etc.

Then suddenly, 11th hour, Gillett comes riding back in on his horse with Hicks on the back, and it's all turned on it's head.

It was all very messy, and I can only imagine DIC had either shook hands with Moores on it, or were given verbal assurances that things were looking good, which is why they got so sour.

Like, remember this..??

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/mediawatch/drilldown/MW10938061214-0903.htm

FFS.

_blank_

Tusky wrote: »

It just seems so childish of DIC to pull out their offer because Liverpool were hearing offers from other investors

And these are the people you want running the club?

Mr Alan

its the Liverpool way just ask Rupert Murdoch!

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

No but it would have a massive effect on future investments they try and make. for example-if DIC buy them out now and they go back to the US and lick their wounds for a while (25million profit should make that easy:() but a time will come when they look to invest in more sports teams, be it "soccer" american football, baseball watever, simple fact it will be far easier for them to get their foot in the door if they have a decent enough public image. something that would have been tarnished irrepairably if they had have sacked Rafa due to the subsequent protests (which would have turned very nasty).

tbh, i dont think it would. if they were looking to invest in a rugby club in australia or something, i dont think people would be concerned over what they did in a city in england. Would have a big impact in england, yes, but not in other sports or other countries

el rabitos wrote: »

what a fcuking mess.

if i'm an agent with a talented player looking for his next big move i wouldnt let him anywhere near the club.

the only plus is we wont actually need any money in the summer at this rate. who the hell would want to join us. theres no way right now we could compete with any other top team for a player with the current state the clubs in.

total joke

if you were an agent, id say the only thing you'd car about was your slice

i dont think liverpool will have any trouble attracting tops names to the club

mike65

DesF you reacted to a supposition that wasnt true. spockety version is correct. DIC got ****ed over by Moores and Parry (for reasons entirely down to self-interest).

Mike.

~Rebel~

I dont think it was down to DIC just having competition, it was that at the 11th hour Moores appeared to be feeding G&H the due diligence results, that DIC had carried out, so they could steal a march. Remember it took over a month of work for DIC to get through it all and then G&H supposedly had it all done in a few days. It was quite obviously incredibly bad business practices by Moores and DIC had every right to tell them where to go.

zing

When DIC withdrew their offer last time they weren't the ones being childish - they were following orders. Word came down from on high to do a take it or leave it and they ended up leaving it. So it was a very very rich person throwing their toys out of the cot for not getting their own way - wouldn't be the first time that's happened and won't be the last.

Also Moores & Parry were said to have been unhappy that they weren't dealing with the people pulling the strings in DIC - the people they were dealing with always had to go back up the food chain to have a decision made, etc..

whatawaster

DesF wrote: »

And these are the people you want running the club?

Yes. They had every right to walk away, given that they had an agreement and at the last minute Moores decided, no doubt at the behest of Parry, to sell to the Americans.

PHB

~Rebel~ wrote: »

But, we'll say what if all this had happened at a previous club, before they went in to challenge DIC and try to buy Liverpool. Lets say one of hicks teams fans came out in force against him saying what a horrible crap owner he was, marching against him, demanding the much loved manager be kept, he ignored them and did what he wanted. Would Hicks have had the opportunity to buy Liverpool if this was the case? I very much doubt it.

Why? This kinda relies on the idea that the fans of other clubs could stop the takeover, which obviously I don't think is the case.

Considering between them they have 5 teams, theres a good chance they might try buying other teams after LFC. If they have a reputation of putting clubs in debt and not listening to fans, they will probably not be able to buy in so easily, especially if the club is somewhat privately owned like Pool was with Moores as major shareholder.

Well, first off, I think you overestimate the effects of reputation. If i'm not mistaken, Hicks had a pretty bad reputation with his fans from other clubs. Now where I think your argument has some basis is in the idea of debt.

Bringing clubs into debt can lead to board members, who care about the long-term interests of the club in a financial sense, to reject a possible new takeover.

But on the issue of fans, not listening to fans, the only people this could effect on the board is if the owner is currently somebody who desires the fans approval.
In the case of Moore, I'm not sure that this was the case. But if somebody, like say Lerener, who cares about what the fans think of him, it might have some effect. But that's an odd case.

Mr Alan wrote: »

simple fact it will be far easier for them to get their foot in the door if they have a decent enough public image. something that would have been tarnished irrepairably if they had have sacked Rafa due to the subsequent protests (which would have turned very nasty).

Well first off, I think the subsequent protests wouldn't have been that huge nor nasty. Managers get sacked all the time, and don't forget, not everyone loves Rafa as much as you

Second, I just don't understand how this public image is gona have an effect. The only area it could have an effect is in the bankers funding a future takeover. However, they would only care if the long term profitability is affected, and nobodies shown why it would be.

Why didn't they fire Rafa? Because they think he is the best person they could get for the job. If Klinnsman had accepted, I've no doubt that he'd be manager of Liverpool now, despite fan protests. Do you think he wouldn't have been?


The key question that you can't seem to answer, is how this bad press effects them economically. Like spell it out in a real way, not 'it'll make it tougher to take over', who will this effect and how?

Hobart

DesF wrote: »

And these are the people you want running the club?

It helps to know the full facts before committing to a response.

~Rebel~ wrote:

I dont think it was down to DIC just having competition, it was that at the 11th hour Moores appeared to be feeding G&H the due diligence results, that DIC had carried out, so they could steal a march.

That's exactly the story I heard from somebody a lot closer to the club than me. There was also mention of Parry involved with this.

zing

I'll take this as official rejection - as reliable a source as any out there.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/03/04/tom-hicks-rejects-dic-bid-100252-20556684/

Still not convinced it's over though.

~Rebel~

zing wrote: »

I'll take this as official rejection - as reliable a source as any out there.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/03/04/tom-hicks-rejects-dic-bid-100252-20556684/

Still not convinced it's over though.

ghey

Dubit10

Hicks is a ****** ******:mad:

zing

Dubit10 wrote: »

Hicks is a ****** ******:mad:

indeed - but don't jump off the roller coaster just yet.

Gillet's lawyers have been in talks with DIC all afternoon according to the
Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/03/04/ufnliv504.xml

Tusky

So Gillette can still sell to DIC unless Hicks can raise the cash to buy him out ? What kind of timeframe would Hicks have to raise the funds ? Neither are good outcomes.

a) DIC owning 50% & Hicks owning 50%
b) Hicks owning 100% but having **** all left over to invest in the club

spockety

Remember that in all this, Hicks has been shown to be economical with the truth.. always saying he has no interest in selling, yet on the other hand we know now for a fact that his people have been talking to DIC .. why would they bother talking if they had absolutely no intention of selling? It is all smoke and mirrors.

Stky10

Should make for an interesting atmosphere at the match tomorrow night. Wonder if Tom Junior would fancy taking another wander in to the Sandon for a quiet jar?

stick-dan

i wish they woould just get the hell out...unwanted!

Melion

Reserves won 1-0 tonight against Bolton to go 8 points clear, Nemeth scoring his 7th in as many games. Agger played an hour and apparently looked very good. Insua played well again(so im told). Surely Nemeth will get a place on the bench before the end of the season

~Rebel~

Well, seems we're still in limbo anyway with regards to who will own our club. Gilette's people were apparantly in talks all day yesterday with DIC while Hicks has been saying he's not taking it, without actually rejecting it, which screams that he just wants more cash. Im afraid this one could stretch out.

Reserves seem to have played one great half and one poor one, but got the win anyway which is all that really matters. 7 consecutive clean sheets too apparantly. The report stated that in his 60mins, Agger was spraying xabi alonso-esque balls around the park. How much we miss that!

zing

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Well, seems we're still in limbo anyway with regards to who will own our club. Gilette's people were apparantly in talks all day yesterday with DIC while Hicks has been saying he's not taking it, without actually rejecting it, which screams that he just wants more cash. Im afraid this one could stretch out.

Lots of diff reports about what's going on (as you'd expect) - some say the offer was to buy out Gillet and was only really extended to Hicks as a matter of courtesy. Gillet at least appears to still be talking to them (talks were supposedly to resume again firs thing this morning) which is a good sign. Some reports say he's putting in ridiculous demands but I'm not sure he'd be in a position to do so given his lack of alternative options.

DIC have supposedly said they want a majority stake or else they're not interested but if they can oust Gillet they'd be in a strong position to also get rid of Hicks next autumn when the (new) current financing deal runs out. They'd easily be able to come up with their half of the cash (by whatever means) to end that agreement and proceed full steam ahead with the new stadium without putting the debt directly on the club - something which Hicks would have a harder time doing without personally committing more to it and taking on the associated debt/risk.

To me the likely scenario is DIC buy out Gillet now and start to put the squeeze on Hicks over the next 16/17 months

Dub13

zing wrote: »

To me the likely scenario is DIC buy out Gillet now and start to put the squeeze on Hicks over the next 16/17 months

This may be what happens but this scenario is not great for the club as it could well be in turmoil for 18 months.

whatawaster

Dub13 wrote: »

This may be what happens but this scenario is not great for the club as it could well be in turmoil for 18 months.

at least they won't be able to sack Rafa (can't see them agreeing on it) but neither could i see either willing to put up large transfer funds.

zing

It's official - Gillet is a %@&! too

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/03/05/gillett-says-no-to-80m-pay-off-100252-20560341/

In other news - Torres is a doubt for tonight
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/03/05/torres-hit-by-bug-100252-20560113/

kaimera

wtf?

He turned down £80m profit? What a ****.

~Rebel~

What the fck is going on?!? Who in their right mind turns down that kind of offer?! Especially when the last few months have shown he has absolutely no interest in having any involvement with LFC and seems to dislike his business partner. I would have said there was no chance of DIC upping their offer by that much, let alone Gilette not accepting it!

80million! For doing nothing for a year! I'll tell ya what lads, fck this desk job for a game of soldiers, Im off to put some poor unfortunate club into debt!

PHB

I'm not quite sure to be honest what's going on. I would have thought their business plan was dependent on building a new stadium, have they got the financing in place for that?

Dub13

PHB wrote: »

I'm not quite sure to be honest what's going on. I would have thought their business plan was dependent on building a new stadium, have they got the financing in place for that?

They way I see it is there only option to finance the new stadium is more loans...:mad:

Mr Alan

The yanks only have an 18 month re-financing deal in place and that only includes a "fraction" of the total costs of building the stadium. Considering the difficulties they had in attaining that deal, i really dont see how Hicks plans on buying out Gillette and building a new stadium all on his own!

PHB

Well, there is obviously still huge money to be made at Liverpool, building a new stadium will result in a huge increase in turnover and profits. Selling the club on then would be probably much more profitable. It seems that G&H still think they can get the loans through.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote: »

I'm not quite sure to be honest what's going on. I would have thought their business plan was dependent on building a new stadium, have they got the financing in place for that?

Thats what makes this even more nuts, they have their 350million refinancing deal so far,which runs out in a year and a bit, so that has to be refinanced yet again, and on top of this they need to loan ANOTHER 300million to complete the stadium! The club will be steeped in debt and even if the new stadium is a big success it will take many many years to pay it off. Now they have a get-out to basically negate the need for refinancing, take the club out of debt, have the stadium built, and walk away with apparantly 80million judging by the latest offer. And they're not taking it! Surely they cant think they'll be getting any more then this when the club has up to 600million of debt to take on board as well...I just dont see how the stadium can be seen as such an asset when the newcomers will effectively have to pay for it anyway, as well as all the interest on the loans to build it. Yeah it generates more revenue, but surely not enough to make Hicks and Gilette turn down this offer...Though obviously there is something im missing as thats whats happening...

yom 1

I dont know what to make of this. I'm absolutely shocked if these reports are true. Turning down £80m for a years work/lack there of is just astonishing!

~Rebel~ wrote: »

80million! For doing nothing for a year! I'll tell ya what lads, fck this desk job for a game of soldiers, Im off to put some poor unfortunate club into debt!

Rebel seems to work best if you have 2 people involved. My solicitor will be in contact!:p

~Rebel~

yom 1 wrote: »

Rebel seems to work best if you have 2 people involved. My solicitor will be in contact!:p

Aye, I suppose no sense in messing with a winning formula. So who gets to be the loadmouth and who's the silent partner who goes awol? Also, I may need to adopt a son who can either stupidly go to the heart of the clubs supporters and be abused, or else take a position on the board, have an office an Anfield and then leave one evening and never come back..

PHB

Well, the thing is, people assume too much about the credit crunch. Credit is still there. 300 million more isn't a huge deal, because its investment that will definately give a return. The stadium can be built in what, a year? The loan will start being payed off instantly.

At which point, once the club is running smoothly, once the stadium is being paid off reguarly, then they'll look to sell, and let somebody else see it through.

Mr Alan

Gillette isnt the silent partner.

Hicks ate him.

FACT.

yom 1

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Aye, I suppose no sense in messing with a winning formula. So who gets to be the loadmouth and who's the silent partner who goes awol? Also, I may need to adopt a son who can either stupidly go to the heart of the clubs supporters and be abused, or else take a position on the board, have an office an Anfield and then leave one evening and never come back..

Lol!

Just make sure you name him after a beer!!

Tusky

They are obviously in it for the money but that is an insane amount of greed. To turn down 80m sterling ($160m) profit for a one year low risk investment is insane.

Dub13

Bob Paisley Cup (5 a side Tournament)

The Venue has now been confirmed as Astro Park,Tallaght.We can also now confirm the date is 26th April.

So full detail's are....

Bob Paisley Cup

Venue Astro Park Tallaght
Date 26th April
Times to be confirmed once we have teams finalised


Irishkop are proud to be supporting our fellow Reds on www.onthekop.com and there initiative to raise funds to build a memorial to honour Bob Paisley in his home town of Hetton-le-Hole.

As a way of raising money we are going to hold a 5 a side tournament called The Bob Paisley Cup and we are looking for your support.

Those looking to enter a team the following applies

*Team to consist of a minimum of 5 players plus subs
*There will be a round robin group stage followed by knockout semi-finals and final. Each team will play a minimum of 3 matches.
*Anyone who wants to take part but cannot put a full team together we still want you to put your name down and we can organise you into teams
*This is not restricted to members you can ask mates to take part we want to raise as much as we can.
*The cost to enter will be €20 per Player
*All monies must be paid in advance. Please PM Pam for payment details
*When applying please send details of the team consisting of names of other players and how many
*If you have no team and you want us to organise you into a team please state clearly that you have no team
*Entry & payments must be in before Friday 11th April that means it has to reach our account on this date.
*General 5 aside rules will apply

Please don't use this thread as discussion on your football skills but if you have a question that needs answering post it up and if we can answer it we will.

We also would like volunteers to help out with whatever they can & if anyone has contacts in any of the astroparks or other astro turf pitches that can get us a good rate would mean more money going to the fund.

So dust off those astro turf runners and get in here

We might not be able to give you a knighthood Bob but we sure as hell are going to give you a memorial that you well deserve.

Lads this is your club and Paisley along with Shanks are the 2 greatest managers we ever had lets put Bob up their in his rightful place as a true legend of Liverpool FC. Any help at all will go a long way to achieving our goal as Ian said in the video its a fan initiative and its only us as fans that can make it work.


Thanks from All the Mods & organisers on Irishkop