Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Cyrus

Pako? source

_blank_

Cyrus wrote: »

Pako? source

Brilliant.

Source?

Here

:pac:

Pacman

Cyrus

oh

stoopid non liverpool fans confusing me

mike65

or should I say :pac:

Mike.

whatawaster

Pretty poor game last night, but we did what we needed to do.

Reina - I thought he was outstanding, couple of very good saves, commanding on crosses and swept up well behind the back 4.

Carragher - Did OK. Passing was very poor, but he defended solidly enough

Aurelio - Nice assist. Apart from that was OK

Hyypia - Did well.

Skrtel - One nearly costly error (which he did well to recover from and put the striker under pressure), but that aside i thought he was excellent

Mascherano - Outstanding. Our best player

Lucas - Did ok, i thought, better than most have been saying. His passing was hit and miss, but he made some good challenges and interceptions. I still think he'll be a marvellous player in a couple of years.

Gerrard - I thought he stayed too far forward and didn't help the midfield two enough.

Babel - Passing was woeful, kept running into Maicon, but somehow, i still thought he looked dangerous

Kuyt - Had so much space and time, and used neither very efficiently. And he'd been doing so well . . .

Torres - Is a legend

PHB

I think Lucas is 2-3 years away, but he showed again last night that at times he has that extra bit of quality.

Gerrard pushed very very forward last night, almost played as a second striker. I found that odd.

I must say, once again, Kuyt really stood out to me as terrible last night. It's not that I don't like him, he seems like a fairly honest professional, but you can just see the same pattern so much in Liverpools attack.
Quick passes between Torres, then Gerrard, then Mascherano, then Gerrard, then when the ball gets to Kuyt, either he messes up, or he really slows down the movement. The addition of another top class winger, even just one, will really make a huge difference to Liverpools front line I think.

Zapp Brannigan

Kuyt was woeful last night, just seemed to constantly slow us down.
Also thought Jamie was pretty poor at RB, he didn't get forward and when he did it slowed us down meaning our whole right flank was pretty useless. Would have preferred Arbeloa at RB and Jamie at CB instead of Hyppia.

LuckyLloyd

PHB wrote: »

I think Lucas is 2-3 years away, but he showed again last night that at times he has that extra bit of quality.

Gerrard pushed very very forward last night, almost played as a second striker. I found that odd.

I must say, once again, Kuyt really stood out to me as terrible last night. It's not that I don't like him, he seems like a fairly honest professional, but you can just see the same pattern so much in Liverpools attack.
Quick passes between Torres, then Gerrard, then Mascherano, then Gerrard, then when the ball gets to Kuyt, either he messes up, or he really slows down the movement. The addition of another top class winger, even just one, will really make a huge difference to Liverpools front line I think.

I thought that Gerrard pushing so far forward made sense given the context of the tie. Inter were going to have to push midfielders forward and having Gerrard operating in the space between midfield and back four gave us a quick option to break to during the first 50 mins - and it worked well enough.

You really can't fault Kuyt's effort levels. As such, I can't critiscise too harshly. I think you are right - he isn't good enough to match the clubs ambition and it will have to be addressed during the summer. But while he plays I won't be moaning about him.

Peyton Manning

DesF wrote: »

I clearly meant Semi :pac:

Look at you needlessly using the new smiley...

gracehopper

Like everyone else i expected a lot more from inter. Liverpool played quite well and were very focused. Didnt lose the cool even when Inter started diving and throwing themselves around like all sore loser italian teams tend to do liverpool remained fixed on the job. Mascherano is a fantastic player and gerrard and torres were very good. I thought the centre back stood right off torres for the goal. Terrible defending!!!!

As PHB said with one more decent winger liverpool could be very dangerous.

Did you' see mancini will be leaving at the end of the season? In fairness if he cant motivate his team for the CL knockouts then he shouldnt be a manager.

mike65

PHB wrote: »

he seems like a fairly honest professional.

You are John Giles and I claim my 5 euro!

Mike.

gosplan

Kyut is a striker being asked to play as a winger simply because his work rate totally disrupts the opposition's attacks down the left side.

Give the guy a break - he wasn't put there as a going forward option.

IrishMike

PHB wrote: »

I think Lucas is 2-3 years away, but he showed again last night that at times he has that extra bit of quality.

Gerrard pushed very very forward last night, almost played as a second striker. I found that odd.

I must say, once again, Kuyt really stood out to me as terrible last night. It's not that I don't like him, he seems like a fairly honest professional, but you can just see the same pattern so much in Liverpools attack.
Quick passes between Torres, then Gerrard, then Mascherano, then Gerrard, then when the ball gets to Kuyt, either he messes up, or he really slows down the movement. The addition of another top class winger, even just one, will really make a huge difference to Liverpools front line I think.

Totally agree with you about Kuyt PHB but could you explain to me how you
think Lucas will be a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
Aside from his reputation in the U20s with Brazil can you explain what
attributes he has that will make him a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
I have seen him playing in about 10 games this season and i still cannot
find one positive thing about his game.
Poor range of passing, no pace at all (zanetti ghosted passed him constantly),
poor vision which is demonstrated by him constantly wanting to pass the
ball backwards and a poor workrate which is pretty obvious when you dont
hear his name mentioned for 15 mins at times during games.
Seems like a journeyman to me and when you consider he was 6m it seems
like a fair valuation rather than getting a very cheap future superstar.
When you consider Alonso was less than twice the price for 5 times the player
it sums it up perfectly for me.
He is the cheaper scouse equilivilant of Michael Carrick and in 2 years time you
can quote me on that when he will have been replaced in the Liverpool midfield

gucci

gracehopper wrote: »

I thought the centre back stood right off torres for the goal. Terrible defending!!!!

Presume your being slightly sarcastic there? Was a tremendous first touch by torres that the defender did not know where the ball went and where to go to close him down!! The goal get better and better every time you watch it.

Oh and by the way everybody :pac::pac::pac:
(thats cool!)

Mr Alan

I thought Kuyt did ok, couple of times he gave the ball away foolishly, but he definately worked that right side and put a couple of cracking balls into the box.

whatawaster

IrishMike wrote: »

Totally agree with you about Kuyt PHB but could you explain to me how you
think Lucas will be a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
Aside from his reputation in the U20s with Brazil can you explain what
attributes he has that will make him a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
I have seen him playing in about 10 games this season and i still cannot
find one positive thing about his game.
Poor range of passing, no pace at all (zanetti ghosted passed him constantly),
poor vision which is demonstrated by him constantly wanting to pass the
ball backwards and a poor workrate which is pretty obvious when you dont
hear his name mentioned for 15 mins at times during games.
Seems like a journeyman to me and when you consider he was 6m it seems
like a fair valuation rather than getting a very cheap future superstar.
When you consider Alonso was less than twice the price for 5 times the player
it sums it up perfectly for me.
He is the cheaper scouse equilivilant of Michael Carrick and in 2 years time you
can quote me on that when he will have been replaced in the Liverpool midfield

It's his first season, for christ's sake. How good was Flamini in his first season? Or his second or third for that matter?
I think he's a very good passer of the ball, and is a very clever player. He hasn't adjusted to the pace of the English game fully yet, but that takes time. I'd like to think Dunga knows a bit more about central midfielders than either of us, and it says a lot for Lucas that, despite not being a regular for Liverpool, he has a couple of caps to his name.

I think he'll be a top player in a year or two

ShiverinEskimo

gosplan wrote: »

Kyut is a striker being asked to play as a winger simply because his work rate totally disrupts the opposition's attacks down the left side.

Give the guy a break - he wasn't put there as a going forward option.

That's the trouble - I can remember two or three clear occasions where he lost the ball and just stood there gazing on instead of tracking back. The one thing he has is his work rate and it just wasn't present last night.

Bad and all as Kuyt was the Inter RB was the worst player on the pitch

Mr Alan

I really want Utd next round.

ShiverinEskimo

Summed it up Neil1984. It was a bit of a crap match all in. Liverpool gave the ball away too much and Inter didn't have the players to punish them for it.

Torres brought the only excitement. The lad is amazing, the second the pass to him was hit ok I knew he was gonna rifle it. Brilliance.

PHB

IrishMike wrote: »

Totally agree with you about Kuyt PHB but could you explain to me how you
think Lucas will be a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
Aside from his reputation in the U20s with Brazil can you explain what
attributes he has that will make him a brilliant player in 2-3 years?
I have seen him playing in about 10 games this season and i still cannot
find one positive thing about his game.
Poor range of passing, no pace at all (zanetti ghosted passed him constantly),
poor vision which is demonstrated by him constantly wanting to pass the
ball backwards and a poor workrate which is pretty obvious when you dont
hear his name mentioned for 15 mins at times during games.
Seems like a journeyman to me and when you consider he was 6m it seems
like a fair valuation rather than getting a very cheap future superstar.
When you consider Alonso was less than twice the price for 5 times the player
it sums it up perfectly for me.
He is the cheaper scouse equilivilant of Michael Carrick and in 2 years time you
can quote me on that when he will have been replaced in the Liverpool midfield

It's the little things for me to be honest. Timing of runs, pass selection, popping up at the right moment.

First off, he's what, 21?
Did you see Mascherano at first in England? He was shocking. And he's 2 years older. Then he adjusted. Lucas is still adjusting his game.
Second, he's got that talent that you can see. He might appear to have poor vision a lot of the time, but once in a while, he'll pick out a magical little pass.
Also he plays the Brazilian way, keeping the ball moving, quickly. Has a touch of Scholes about him I'd say.

Now I'm not saying he'll ever be the best central midfielder in the world, I think he's just that one class behind, but I fully expect him to be a top class player, who'd do fine in Liverpools central midfield.
To compare him to Alonso is fine, Alonso had a great first season, but in the last 2 seasons, he's been poor. Rafa has seen this aswell, Alonso has lost his place to Lucas to an extent. You seem to have an idealised notion of Alonso compared to how he has been on the pitch in the last while )although he is starting to get back to form a little)

Dub13

I have a feeling we will get Man You.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

I really want Utd next round.

Id love that too, but just imagine if it was saved until the final. Could you imagine the days, the hours leading up to it. Makes my spine tingle in anticipation even at the thought of it Heres hoping!

Mr Alan

Liverpool and United in Moscow would be disasterous. Uefa cant allow it happen. People will die. Seriously.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool and United in Moscow would be disasterous. Uefa cant allow it happen. People will die. Seriously.

That much is true. Russia can barely police itself, let alone thousands of some of the fiercest rivals in England. But here's hoping Uefa f*ck up their rigging of the draw and find a way to make this match go ahead.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I think Lucas is 2-3 years away, but he showed again last night that at times he has that extra bit of quality.

Gerrard pushed very very forward last night, almost played as a second striker. I found that odd.

I must say, once again, Kuyt really stood out to me as terrible last night. It's not that I don't like him, he seems like a fairly honest professional, but you can just see the same pattern so much in Liverpools attack.
Quick passes between Torres, then Gerrard, then Mascherano, then Gerrard, then when the ball gets to Kuyt, either he messes up, or he really slows down the movement. The addition of another top class winger, even just one, will really make a huge difference to Liverpools front line I think.

Couldnt agree more. Unfortunately he seems to be the nicest guy in football. Great team spirit, constantly praising his team mates, works his socks off, will play anywhere on the pitch for the team and doesnt mind being rotated. He also gives something like 40% of his wage directly to charity. For these reasons I wish he was better than he is.

Fact is, hes not good enough for any more than a place on the bench. You have to take into account that he is being played out of position, but then again he had plenty of chances up front as well. One extra top class winger/attacker and we will improve dramatically.

This is the way forward in my opinion.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

x

---

Alonso--Mascherno

Mr Alan

Kuyt is good enough to play for Liverpool, but not as a first choice. If we were to bring in another attacking wide player (henry for example ) Kuyt would be a sweet back up imo.

ShiverinEskimo

Archimedes wrote: »

Id love that too, but just imagine if it was saved until the final. Could you imagine the days, the hours leading up to it. Makes my spine tingle in anticipation even at the thought of it Heres hoping!

I would hate and love such a game in equal measures. OMG the bragging rights at stake. Thousands of heart attacks.

Psychologically I think United have the edge over pool at the mo. I think it would be better news for United than Pool if they were drawn. I know the champs league is different from the premier league but your mentality will transfer over and our record against the pool of late is excellent.

Mr Alan

Rafa has only ever lost 1 tie over 2 legs while at Liverpool, a CL win and final in three years. Whereas Utd permanently play ****e and underperform in Europe.

I think Utd, the media and their fans would underestimate us. And i think we'd knock you out.

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa has only ever lost 1 tie over 2 legs while at Liverpool, a CL win and final in three years. Whereas Utd permanently play ****e and underperform in Europe.

I think Utd, the media and their fans would underestimate us. And i think we'd knock you out.

Yea but thats assuming your record in Europe overwrites Fergies record against Benitez. Who's to say it wouldnt be the other way around?

Tusky

I disagree with you Alan. Utd beat us home and away last season. They have beaten us away so far this season...it would be a disaster to draw them.

Mr Alan

Archimedes wrote: »

Yea but thats assuming your record in Europe overwrites Fergies record against Benitez. Who's to say it wouldnt be the other way around?

I just think the physcological advantage which you clearly hold over us in the league would have zero bearing. the only time we've encountered eachother in a cup comp, we've won.

Tusky wrote: »

I disagree with you Alan. Utd beat us home and away last season. They have beaten us away so far this season...it would be a disaster to draw them.

Utd except for away last season (i think?) have never really impressed me against us, i have always felt we deserved at LEAST a point against em.

I aint saying we would definately win, they would obviously be favourites, but i think we could and would do it. only imo oof course.

spockety

Tusky wrote: »

I disagree with you Alan. Utd beat us home and away last season. They have beaten us away so far this season...it would be a disaster to draw them.

There is another team in England who also had Liverpool's marker in the Premier League, but when it came to Champions League 2 legged affairs, pulling Liverpool out of the hat cost them a place in 2 Champions League finals in the end.

ShiverinEskimo

Mr. Alan wrote:

Whereas Utd permanently play ****e and underperform in Europe.

A little harsh there considering we had all but maximum points in our group stage only for playing a second string team in our final game that didn't matter.

Fair enough we struggled against Lyon for spells but don't let Liverpool knocking Inter out of the champs league cloud your judgement. Liverpools group stage wasn't exactly terrific and in both legs against Milan ye failed to score against 11 men. And Inter weren't exactly brilliant with 11.

To say United's form in Europe is ****e when so far this season its better than Pools is ridiculous and even the competition is a European one I don't Pools 'Euro' mentality will count for much when both legs are played in all-too-familiar surroundings of Old Trafford and Anfield if we meet before the final.

whatawaster

only an idiot would genuinely prefer United or Arsenal to Fenerbache or Shalke.
The ideal scenario is for us to draw one of them and United/Arsenal/Chelsea and Barca to draw each other.

I don't think i could comprehend the pain of losing a CL final to United.

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

A little harsh there considering we had all but maximum points in our group stage only for playing a second string team in our final game that didn't matter.

Fair enough we struggled against Lyon for spells but don't let Liverpool knocking Inter out of the champs league cloud your judgement. Liverpools group stage wasn't exactly terrific and in both legs against Milan ye failed to score against 11 men. And Inter weren't exactly brilliant with 11.

To say United's form in Europe is ****e when so far this season its better than Pools is ridiculous and even the competition is a European one I don't Pools 'Euro' mentality will count for much when both legs are played in all-too-familiar surroundings of Old Trafford and Anfield if we meet before the final.

I'm not talking about this season. I am talking about Liverpool form in Europe since Rafa arrived and Fergusons form in Europe, which even viewing through the most red tinted Utd fan glasses, is not good enough.

IrishMike

whatawaster wrote: »

only an idiot would genuinely prefer United or Arsenal to Fenerbache or Shalke.

You obviously didnt see who wrote the comment i take it :D:D

IrishMike

whatawaster wrote: »

It's his first season, for christ's sake. How good was Flamini in his first season? Or his second or third for that matter?

Flamini played at full back and was never quite up to it, Wenger converted
him to a central midfielder and he turned into the player he is today.
You are comparing apples with oranges.

Mr Alan

Nice way of calling me an idiot Mike. Good work.

If you wanna win, you gotta play and beat the best is all i am saying.

mike65

Fernando Torres Overrated?

Always entertaining to read over such a thread.

Mike.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nice way of calling me an idiot Mike. Good work.

If you wanna win, you gotta play and beat the best is all i am saying.

Perhaps, but we could also play Shalke in the quarters, and then the winners of a Roma/Fenerbache tie in the semi's. Not a bad route to the final. I'd much rather our chances against United/Arsenal in a one-off match at a neutral venue.

whatawaster

IrishMike wrote: »

Flamini played at full back and was never quite up to it, Wenger converted
him to a central midfielder and he turned into the player he is today.
You are comparing apples with oranges.

Flamini is and always has been, a central midfielder. He played full back because a) they had problems in that area, and b) he wasn't good enough to get into Arsenal's midfield . . . because . . . it can take more than 6 weeks for a young, foreign midfielder to set the premiership alight.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nice way of calling me an idiot Mike. Good work.

If you wanna win, you gotta play and beat the best is all i am saying.

Well pighead isnt around so someone had to make the comment
Just yanking your chain though
United would in fairness be the hardest draw Liverpool could get.
Have to beat at least one English team and Liverpools record against the big 3
is shocking to say the least.
Hopefully Rafas magical touch for 2 legged games continues!

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

Perhaps, but we could also play Shalke in the quarters, and then the winners of a Roma/Fenerbache tie in the semi's. Not a bad route to the final. I'd much rather our chances against United/Arsenal in a one-off match at a neutral venue.

and then have other fans moan about how we fluked out way to "another" European cup?! no thanks, prefer to just knock em out

ShiverinEskimo

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not talking about this season. I am talking about Liverpool form in Europe since Rafa arrived and Fergusons form in Europe, which even viewing through the most red tinted Utd fan glasses, is not good enough.

Who cares what has happened before this season. You are saying you want to meet United in this competition this season and then said United are consistently ****e in Europe and went on to say Pool would knock us out this season.

Considering United's current form in Europe and against Liverpool I think it is you being overconfident and writing United off when in reality United would play liverpool with the same mentality as always - with respect but with confidence. Which I think is why we have had such a good record against ye.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

and then have other fans moan about how we fluked out way to "another" European cup?! no thanks, prefer to just knock em out

People are going to say things like that anyway. I mean in 05 we beat Juventus, Chelsea and Milan and people still called us lucky. Anyway, there'll be nothing lucky about our 4-0 demolition of United in the final. I can already see Ronaldo's tears.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr Alan wrote: »

I really want Utd next round.

Are you off your ****ing head?

Mr Alan

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Are you off your ****ing head?

kaimera

I'd rather Utd myself before the final. Over two legs I think we'd have them.

I honest to god would get perm banned if JoS/Wes Brown scored a winner in the final.

spockety

Why are people wasting thread space proclaiming their reasoning for either side coming out of it victorious in a Utd Liverpool CL tie? There is absolutely no way of knowing what would happen. Form goes out the window for matches like that.

What I would say is like Kaimera says, if we have to face United, it would be better to happen before the Final (if we got that far). I'm sure even United fans would not relish the prospect of a Liverpool V United final.