Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

and wat you are not considering my eskimo friend is that although the two teams are from the same country, i think it would be very much played as a European match.

its totally different to a league game. its over two legs for starters. also there will be a european ref. and i'd be pretty sure Ferguson would play 1 up top for at least one of the matches.

as i said earlier, i dont think there has been anything between us and ye when we have met in the league in the main. the major difference imo, has been a physcological one, we have felt we cant beat beat u in the league because you are better than us. which in the league, you undoubtadly are. (christ that hurt)

whereas in Europe, we fear no one, the players seem to have a real faith in Rafa and him tactical chops over two legs....remember Bellamy after the Barca game? clearly heard running to Rafa and grabbing him...."you're a ****ing genius you are! you know that!? a ****ing genius!!!" we wouldnt fear you the way we do in the league matches.

we fear you in the league matches, cause over the course of a season, you are undoubtadly better than us (christ that hurts to say). BUT where my annoyance stems from is the fact that no utd fans can admit that we are superior to ye in cup competitions.

Since Rafa arrived, if i am not mistaken, we have won a CL, and been to another final...as well as winning the FA cup. You lads have won the PL and been to an FA cup final.

and i dont mean Ferguson would be made a show of, as in we'd win 5-0 or any such thing, christ, it would be close as hell, i just mean i think Ferguson would continue to tinker in Europe as he always does, and imo, i think that'd give us the upper hand.

(ps. this is not an invitation for, yez but the PL is the main thing! have to win your own league blah blah blah yuk)

ShiverinEskimo

You see when you explain your views in a much more toned-down manner they are a lot easier to accept. Big difference between "made a show of" and "it would be close as hell".

Your point about your players not being phased in Europe I think is spot on. My point on the flipside of that is that with the European teams you have the luxury of playing without a prior psychological disadvantage. I think liverpool fans and players alike will get nervous before any meeting with United. I just think that whatever 'genius' Rafa produces in Europe against European teams in the Champs league will be heavily diluted when facing the old enemey on all-too-familiar turf. You can go to AC, Real, Barcelona knowing that it is a tactical battle because the unfamiliarity between managers and players allows more experimental and freelance styles of play which Rafa seems to be able to get right more than wrong. If you take the same approach to a domestic side where not only do they play 2/3/4 times a season every season but also are right on top of coverage etc and see them play week in week out then your advantage of tinkering and tactics is diluted.

Truth is its because United don't consider Pool as big a threat that they would handle ye better than a European team. I think the Euro teams hear and see from time to time what you are capable of and perhaps come with a cautious approach because they aren't sure what to expect. United would have no fear and are more than familiar with your players/manager and styles and I think that is why your recent European success will not be a factor. United won't be bothered about and tbh if Liverpool's belief rests solely on the fact you have done better than us in Europe recently then that would be a receipe for failure.

machiavellianme

Toffees drawing at the moment. Hopefully they win to stay in Europe and give up on 4th. Villa currently 1-0 down to Middlesborough. If it stays like that its pretty much a 2 horse race from here

PHB

It does look like a two horse race, but I really don't see Everton giving up, they have a reasonably sized squad, should be able to compete in both.
It's such an open race, because you both have viciously hard run ins.

Mr Alan

we'll pull away from Everton now i think. We are a different class to them being totally honest. We have had a torrid time since just before Christmas while they've been playing out of their skins they still couldnt pull out in front of us.

mike65

Gillett speaks

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/sport/story.asp?j=131970762&p=y3y97yy36&n=131971233&t=soccer

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

mike65 wrote: »

Gillett speaks

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/sport/story.asp?j=131970762&p=y3y97yy36&n=131971233&t=soccer

Mike.

wow, profound....

zing

Wonder when he managed to escape from Hicks' basement.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Is a joke of a situation. That hicks lad is a complete moron.

el rabitos

be interested to see how the club is actually working behind the scenes right now.

ie. who the hell is actually in charge, running the day to day operations, the planning, the communicating with benitez....is it parry, one of the owners sons? hicks himself to some extent?

what's gillettes role right now? does he have one at all? is there any presence at all from his side within the club at the minute?

so many unanswered questions and i'm not too eager to see them all answered on sky sports news or on websites tbh. some fcuking clarity and idea on what the thought process is around the club right now would be nice.

if this situation drags on until next season it'll just be another piece of dead wood for the team to carry

jesus_thats_gre

Reckoin that Gillet is pretty much allowing Hick's to run the show at the moment and only gets involved if Hick's crosses the line.

el rabitos

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Reckoin that Gillet is pretty much allowing Hick's to run the show at the moment and only gets involved if Hick's crosses the line.

well thats the mental image i have in my head of how its being played out between them right now

but all the same, its no way for the club to be run, to plan, to make progress on and off the field.

we're in a time where the other teams around us, above and directly below are growing and moving at a fast rate. having the kind of divisions there seems to be at the club right now are only serving to help the other teams

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Blogs/A-to-Z-of-Bloggers/Ben-Blackmore/2008/03/Will-people-shut-up-about-Torres/

Rafa Benitez has to be the only manager in England who can dump the Italian champions out of the Champions League - on their own turf - and get criticised for doing so.

Liverpool moved ominously into the last eight of the Champions League for the third time in four years on Tuesday, yet despite a European record that Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger dream about, Benitez instantly faced scarcely-veiled criticism.

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It surrounded Fernando Torres, who had just leathered in his 26th goal of a wonderful season, justifying a huge Benitez gamble in spending £20.1 million on the Spanish superstar, who had scored just 14 goals the previous season for Atletico.

Liverpool had just beaten Inter, and looked comfortable doing so, so what could Benitez expect as his first question?

This is what he got: "Fernando Torres is in wonderful form, but should he have played more games at the start of the season, and can Liverpool fans expect to see him play every game until the rest of the season?" Or words to that effect.

Now I won't mention names, but anybody watching coverage of the game on T.V will know who I mean when I then turn to an even worse comment: "How many goals could Torres have scored had he not been in and out of the team all season? Wouldn't Liverpool fans swap the Champions League for the League?"

More criticism of Rafa's 'rotation policy', where apparently he has dropped Fernando Torres more times than Paul Robinson drops footballs.

So here is a fact for all those who bang on with this 'if only Torres had played more games' nonsense.

Of the Premier League games that Torres has been fit for this season, he has been rested only twice, the last of which came six months ago. The only other game he came off the bench for was on his return from injury against Fulham. A game he scored in and Liverpool won.

Cristiano Ronaldo meanwhile, has been rested three times, and United lost one of those games away at Bolton.

Liverpool aren't trailing United because Torres missed two games, they are trailing because they are not good enough over the course of the season - yet.

The two games Torres was rested for, came just two weeks before he picked up a thigh injury that saw him miss over a month of the season. Maybe Rafa knew something.

After all, Frank Rijkaard suffered similar criticism for resting Lionel Messi, right before the Argentine also suffered a muscular injury.

As crazy as it sounds, maybe Rafa knows more than these clueless pundits who continue to use magnificent victories like Tuesday night to bash the Liverpool boss.

I wouldn't bet against him having a second European Cup in his locker to prove it in May.

Wonderful article. It's time people other than Liverpool fans started seeing through all the rubbish on Sky every week.

Malice

whatawaster wrote: »

Wonderful article. It's time people other than Liverpool fans started seeing through all the rubbish on Sky every week.

I agree it's a great article but like I posted in the other thread which got locked, Sky and the BBC broadcast for the lowest common denominator which unfortunately is the standard tabloid-believing moron who treats what the likes of Jamie Redknapp and Dunphy say as the truth regardless of how blatantly wrong it is. Anyone with half a brain can see that but not everyone has half a brain...

ShiverinEskimo

I can see why Pool fans would like that article. Its written by a pool fan for pools fans.

But as for it being a wonderful article?

A seemingly direct quote followed by "or words to that effect" and then everything towards the bottom is based on "maybe Rafa...."

A fan's article it is, music to pool fans ears it is, a great article it is not. It seems more like your typical media fan-written propaganda that fans of their respective clubs lap up. Same for every team before you think my point is solely in relation to Pool

Mr Alan

i believe the reason people like it Mr Eskimo is because it dismantles the myth that Rafa is mad into resting/rotating his best players, which he isnt, nor has he ever been anymore than the other big clubs.

ShiverinEskimo

Please, Mr. Eskimo is my father's name. The name's Neil. Much less patronising.

Yea fair enough - I maintain I dont disagree with the point its trying to make but don't sit there and tell me that an aritcle full of typical tabloid "quotes" and "maybes" is a great article.

Saying "or words to that effect" or "maybe rafa" makes it no different from the drivel that uses "it is alleged", "talk surrounding the issue is saying", "insert source that can't be verified here", etc. etc.

Mr Alan

dont take the Mr thing personally, i do it to everyone, look at my username for crying out loud! Neil it is though

spockety

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

All pool fans do for every argument in here is drum up wins and results from 3 years/3 decades ago. In the here and now I believe Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U would all pick Pool if they had a choice.

If you really wanna talk about the "here and now", I suggest you go have a look at the form table in the league over the last 6 matches (http://www.premierleague.com/page/FormGuide/0,,12306,00.html).

Oh, and our form right 'here and now' in the Champions League isn't too shabby either.

You may have picked the wrong time of the season to want to draw Liverpool in the next round.

whatawaster

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I can see why Pool fans would like that article. Its written by a pool fan for pools fans.

But as for it being a wonderful article?

A seemingly direct quote followed by "or words to that effect" and then everything towards the bottom is based on "maybe Rafa...."

A fan's article it is, music to pool fans ears it is, a great article it is not. It seems more like your typical media fan-written propaganda that fans of their respective clubs lap up. Same for every team before you think my point is solely in relation to Pool

Well it won't win a pulitzer, but it does state some very clear facts that are (deliberately or not) overlooked by sections (nearly all) of the media. And the discussions on sky after tuesdays match were a joke, an absolute joke.

ShiverinEskimo

spockety wrote: »

You may have picked the wrong time of the season to want to draw Liverpool in the next round.

Read my posts man - I never once said I wanted pool in fact my argument is against those who said they wanted United.

zAbbo

I'd love if we got United and beat them, if only to defuse the ongoing crap posted on this thread between both sets of fans.

It gets tedious after a few pages of Mrs Alans youthful exuberance towards his beloved club and the consequent retort from opposing fans

Mr Alan

zAbbo wrote: »

Mrs Alans

wat age are you?12?

spockety

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Read my posts man - I never once said I wanted pool in fact my argument is against those who said they wanted United.

Er, I was specifically replying to you saying:

In the here and now I believe Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U would all pick Pool if they had a choice.

You're a Man U fan, no?

zAbbo

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat age are you?12?

Don't try to bring me down to your level, you'll only beat me with experience

(that was genuinely a typo)

Mr Alan

then fix it man! my masculinity is threatened beyond belief!

ShiverinEskimo

spockety wrote: »

Er, I was specifically replying to you saying:



You're a Man U fan, no?

That was in further relation to my previous post saying that if the English teams HAD to pick another English team to play it would be pool. I did not say that I would rather pool over Fenerbache and co.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

then fix it man! my masculinity is threatened beyond belief!

What? I always thought there was an "s" there anyway.

Dammit, I'm not chatting to you anymore ffs.

mike65

The thread needs a councillor.

Mike.

PHB

Lads, can we end the discussions in this thread about who which team would rather pick?
Also known as, my team is better than your team and this is why...

There is a perfectly good thread about the draw here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250649

Let's use that instead

spockety

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

That was in further relation to my previous post saying that if the English teams HAD to pick another English team to play it would be pool. I did not say that I would rather pool over Fenerbache and co.

My point still stands. ;-)

ShiverinEskimo

Fair enough PHB. But at least there was reason and tact behind each argument.

Spockety I'll be talkin to you after the draw tomorrow.

Or I won't actually because starting tonight I'm officially on the piss in Dublin.

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I'm officially on the piss in Dublin.

Heaven help us!

stick-dan

According to viera we will win the champions league lads!

Anyone up for a trip to russia

I'm joking b4 anyone hits back with calm down replies.:D

Euro Glory

ShiverinEskimo

Mr Alan wrote: »

Heaven help us!

What? Its my Capital too you know. Although I hear its become more like hong kong these days. Been a while.

Honestly Stick-Dan I reckon Pool will be there or there abouts if they get the right teams. Hopefully United will be too and I'm hoping two of the other English teams draw each other in the quarters so at least one will be wiped out. Arse/Pool or Arse/Chelski would suit me nicely.

zing

we'll get chelski in the semis - it's something of a tradition.

Don't care who we get in the qfs - that down to the luck of the (honestly it's not rigged) draw. Speculating about it is pointless.

jesus_thats_gre

Good article:

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_3295734,00.html

Despite the obvious qualities and iconic status of Stevie G, I've long held the belief that Rafa Benitez would be glad to see the back of him - well, until the arrival of Fernando Torres that is.

Gerrard has always posed something of a problem for the Spaniard. Undoubtedly Liverpool's best player for the past several years, Gerrard's tactical indiscipline allied with a need to maintain a hero's standing has often upset Rafa's tactical tinkering.

A peculiarity of the English view is that to be a world-class midfield player, you must play in central midfield (never mind that the likes of Zidane, Figo and others did their best work notionally to the left or the right). In England, you must be the fulcrum - the general. Gerrard and David Beckham are the two most recent English players of genuine quality to suffer from this general outlook.

Take Becks. Despite being a truly world-class operator on the right - the conventional wisdom was that Golden Balls would eventually make the move to the middle where his genuine class would properly flourish. It was if this was a step forward - a natural progression.

But Becks' move inside was a failure for him and for Madrid where he was playing at the time. Lacking the guile and quick thinking required to play that role, Beckham suffered a serious dip in form. The team malfunctioned and so did he.

Gerrard has posed a similar problem for Benitez. Gerrard has many of the qualities required to be successful in that position. He has the engine, he has the power and the skill - but he does not have the game sense. Compare Gerrard's distribution to that of Alonso (at his best) or Xavi at Barcelona. It is not that Gerrard cannot make a pass - we know he can. But his timing and decision-making are questionable.

When Gerrard plays in the middle, Liverpool are laboured, ponderous and predictable. Driven by his urge to be in control, Gerrard drops deep - crowding his defensive midfield partner - demanding the ball from the back. By and large, opponents are happy to see him do this. The odd 60-yard ball apart, Gerrard does not really hurt opponents from such a deep position. His immediate reaction is to look long or cross-field. Spectacular when it works - easier to defend the more you do it in a game.

Watch Xavi, Alonso, Fabregas - quick feet, quicker minds. They tend not to dwell, they move the ball - and move again in support. Every ball is not the killer ball - more often that not, their passing is used to create the foundations for a goal - keeping possession, probing, stretching opponents - eeking out openings.

Gerrard lacks patience - he needs to make an impact. And he is well aware of the media - a media that insists that his best position is in the middle. Hence, Stevie's pre-season grumbles on where he'd like to be playing.

Don't get me wrong, Gerrard is better than most in this position, but it is not the best use of his talents. Finally, it seems that Rafa Benitez has found a position and a formation to allow Gerrard to make the kind of impression that feeds his ego. Playing a free role behind the excellent Torres, Gerrard is becoming a more constant menace to opponents.

It is easy to wonder how it has taken Rafa so long to hit upon this formula - the answer lies in Torres himself. The young Spaniard's pace, skill, and movement create space for Gerrard to operate where he is most dangerous - in the opposition's last third. Gerrard's new role, and Torres's brilliance, also allow Benitez to field both Alonso and Mascherano - while getting width from the likes of Babel and Pennant. The results have been striking.

And so Gerrard gets to ply his trade in the middle - his ego sated. And Rafa gets the midfield rigour he craves. Now the only question is how long the local hero will stand for playing second fiddle to Fernando?

mike65

True enough, the current formation works for the team and Gerrard (note which comes first!). The last comment is silly - G-Unit won't leave cos of Torres they are practically in bed together! :pac:

Mike.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

G-Unit won't leave cos of Torres they are practically in bed together! :pac:

Ohhhh the idea of it

Still waiting to see the first, "TORRES IS TURNING US ALL GAY!" banner on the kop

Jazzy

what would ppl think of pool making a move for jaoquin in the summer to fill that RW position?
I think its hard to call as he has a;ways been a very naturally gifted player but has never really taken off. you could almost say the same about torres before he came to pool although he was a bit more proven in la liga.
who else would ppl like to see come in on the RW?

~Rebel~

They really do look incredibly close sometimes...

http://img.skysports.com/07/11/218x298/torres_gerrard_602532.jpg
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00450/gerrard_tores_280x3_450317a.jpg

~Rebel~

Jazzy wrote: »

what would ppl think of pool making a move for jaoquin in the summer to fill that RW position?
I think its hard to call as he has a;ways been a very naturally gifted player but has never really taken off. you could almost say the same about torres before he came to pool although he was a bit more proven in la liga.
who else would ppl like to see come in on the RW?

Id love to see Mancini, maybe Queresma (though he goes missing a lot too), maybe Carlos Eduardo as a cheaper option with loads of potential. Love Benzema, Ben Arfa has potential too. Nasri would be nice, the guy Menez(sp) at Monaco looks good in that kind of role too.

To be honest that role would have suited Luis Garcia and Pongolle pretty well too!

gucci

Jazzy wrote: »

what would ppl think of pool making a move for jaoquin in the summer to fill that RW position?
I think its hard to call as he has a;ways been a very naturally gifted player but has never really taken off. you could almost say the same about torres before he came to pool although he was a bit more proven in la liga.
who else would ppl like to see come in on the RW?

Joaqúin was a serious act 2years ago, but to be honest i dont see spanish football now so i cant comment, would the price be massive on him?? hes only 25 or 26 isnt he?
*edit* just seen hes 26, and according to wiki has only made 6 appearances this season? Is he injured??

whatawaster

gucci wrote: »

Joaqúin was a serious act 2years ago, but to be honest i dont see spanish football now so i cant comment, would the price be massive on him?? hes only 25 or 26 isnt he?
*edit* just seen hes 26, and according to wiki has only made 6 appearances this season? Is he injured??

he's looked quite poor the few times i've seen him for Valencia

mike65

Harry Kewell sends signal

HARRY KEWELL'S Liverpool career appears to be drawing to a close after he told Rafa Benitez he wants to be allowed to travel to a training camp with a young Australia side rather than work on his fitness at Melwood.

Kewell is keen to join up with an Australia squad featuring just four senior players next week while his Liverpool team-mates are preparing for the visit of Manchester United in the Premier League.

Should Benitez relieve Kewell of his Melwood duties it will be the clearest indication yet that the injury-plagued winger has no future at the club.

Kewell was not in the Liverpool squad which travelled to Milan for Tuesday’s Champions League tie and he has not played for the first team since a fleeting substitute appearance against Barnsley last month.

With his current contract due to expire this summer and with no suggestions that he will be offered a new deal, all indications are that he is now heading towards the Anfield exit door.

Okay its nothing we couldn't have guessed. Pity he never got his mojo working last Autumn.

Mike.

gucci

mike65 wrote: »

Harry Kewell sends signal

Okay its nothing we couldn't have guessed. Pity he never got his mojo working last Autumn.

Mike.

So i guess its off to Newcastle for him then. I wonder will he genuinely be disappointed with his career once he finishes up playing or will he care? His early days at leeds promised so much

Mr Alan

i would love to see BEntley coming in, but cant really see it happening.

Malice

mike65 wrote: »

Harry Kewell sends signal

We might get someone worthy of wearing the number 7 jersey again at long last! I wonder will one of the existing players in the squad take it or will it be left vacant ready for Joaquin/Aimar/Quaresma etc. next season

mike65

I'd take Bentley over the fancy dan Johnny Foreigners!

Mike.

whatawaster

Bentley would cost a small fortune unfortunately being English. He is class though. Same with Young and Agbonlahor.