Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

mike65

Stop Ronaldo and you stop Utd should be the message from tonights game.

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

Defo ^^ There is nothing wrong with having such a player but they really have been blessed to keep him fit all season. Would have been interesting.

BaZmO*

Ah now c'mon, there's more than just Ronaldo in the Utd. team. 15 goals conceded this season would suggest that they've got a pretty decent defence too, especially when you consider that Ronaldo is not exactly renowned for his defensive qualities.

jesus_thats_gre

Of course there is more to them. I genuinely don't mean to trivialise anything they have achieved or will go onto achieve this season. It's just that there has been quite a few occassions whereby United have looked completely devoid of ideas or incapable of getting that goal unless Ronaldo does it for them. He is without doubt the most influencial player on that team and and league. Any team loosing a player of that stature would be affected negatively.

Jazzy

aye, getting through utd's defence will be the hardest part about the match. ferdinand had torres in his pocket last game... lets hope he makes one of his patented f-ups

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Of course there is more to them. I genuinely don't mean to trivialise anything they have achieved or will go onto achieve this season. It's just that there has been quite a few occassions whereby United have looked completely devoid of ideas or incapable of getting that goal unless Ronaldo does it for them. He is without doubt the most influencial player on that team and and league. Any team loosing a player of that stature would be affected negatively.

Stumbled across this by chance:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/03/19/ronaldos_brilliance_masks_unit.html

Manchester United may have gone three points clear at the top of the table and been boosted by Chelsea's failure to beat Spurs, but they are still far from certain to be champions of England, let alone of Europe.
Many big games await Sir Alex Ferguson's men and each will present challenges that they have previously failed. There's the forthcoming clashes with Liverpool, Arsenal, Roma and Chelsea, of course. But the trips to Blackburn, where United have lost in three of the last five seasons, and to Middlesbrough, the most perverse team in the country in that no matter how deep the rut they appear to be in they're always apt to upset the big four, will also be seriously hazardous - remember how impotent United looked when flopping at humdrum sides such as Manchester City, West Ham and, of course, Bolton earlier in this campaign? And the last-day-of-the-season trip to Wigan's bog promises to be just as unpleasant.
Why have United at times looked feeble away to beefy and well-drilled underdogs? For the same reason that Bolton controlled much of the play tonight - ie because United's midfield often struggles to assert itself. Darren Fletcher is patently not part of the manager's first-choice central pairing, but Anderson might be and he was bypassed for long periods tonight.
It will be fascinating to see who Ferguson fields in the centre against Liverpool on Sunday and in the remaining major matches this season. The choice isn't obvious. Paul Scholes' influence has inevitably waned as his mobility has declined. Owen Hargreaves has been hampered by injury and frequently looked less than fully fit (presumably the decision to deploy him at right-back tonight was designed to give him a relatively easy work-out ahead of the bigger games in store). Michael Carrick's passing often compensates for his relative lack of dynamism but, like the other options, he rarely offers a goal threat: while Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fabregas and Frank Lampard bang in the goals elsewhere, United's five central midfielders have between them mustered three league goals this season.
Few would expect those players to score more. Few goals from central midfield is, then, part of the manager's plan. Their job is exclusively to feed the forwards. The problem is United's forward are not reliable.
Wayne Rooney has been particularly profligate, and in particularly unforgivable fashion. He has exquisite skills, instinctive ingenuity and natural warrior spirit; but that instinct has become infected and his spirit soiled - the result is awful finishing. The wonky shooting could be borne of sloppiness. But his demeanour, the creeping strut in his game, suggest something even less excusable - a penchant for the stupidly ostentatious. It seems he overcomplicates things not because of an idealistic, Arsenalesque commitment to artistic purity, but because of a grubby lust to inflate the hype around him, to soup up his image. The botched lobs at home to Newcastle or the foiled attempts to saunter into the net with the ball during the Cup defeat by Portsmouth suggested that to him a clear sight of the net are not so much a chance to score a goal as an opportunity to fatten his reputation. Ronaldo, for one, is much more focused; much less arrogant. The irony, then, is that Rooney's lack of humility accounts for his modest goal tally this season.
Industrious Carlos Tevez's focus doesn't look blurred. His aim and touch just seem to be unsure, as was evident as early as the eighth minute tonight when he chested down a ball six yards from goal then swiped at fresh air. The coolness that Rooney radiates when at his best is a quality bestowed on a chosen few - and Tevez isn't one of them. Louis Saha is a far sharper striker. When fully fit. But when, and for how long, will that be?
Out wide Nani is, understandably, immature. The 21-year-old's decision-making on the ball needs fine-tuning (witness his choice to shoot from 30 yards in the 83rd of tonight's game when he had two team-mates in far better positions) and his propensity to disappear for long periods in games, such as tonight's, is another symptom of his youth.
The upshot of all this, as was demonstrated again tonight, is that defensively solid United are over-reliant for goals on Ronaldo, whose brilliance has regularly rescued them this season, masking the shortcomings of both the manager and some of his team-mates. Twenty-four league goals so far represents a stupendous return for the Portuguese; if he were to get injured or suspended or simply have a couple of off-days during the run-in, however, a more pertinent statistic may be his number of league assists - a paltry three, which shows how often his team-mates have spurned the chances he's created for them.
United have spoken much recently of how their experience could help them in the run-in. But the fact is attitude adjustment is needed at Old Trafford. Not least from Ferguson, whose passive formations against the big teams, particularly away in the Champions League, and apparent tolerance of slackness up front, encourage a Ronaldo-dependency that could yet sabotage their quest for trophies.

Had no idea that United's central midfield players only scored 3 goals the whole season. We defo have the better of them in those positions in my opinion.

It's weird too, if you look at United's wingers and strikers, they are superior to ours in nearly every way but they don't seem to be hitting the back of the net either:

Ronaldo 24
Tevez 11
Saha 5
Giggs 2
Nani 2
Park 1
Scholes 1

Compared to the pool:

Torres 20
Gerrard 10
Babel 4
Kuyt 3
Benayoun 3
Voronin 3
Crouch 2
Pennant 1
Aurelio 1

A major part of what seperates both clubs is how solid United are at the back. We have made so many bad mistakes this season that have cost anything up to 10points. United just don't that and breaking them down is extremely difficult. It is gonna take some effort to beat them.

IrishMike

Just thought i would highlight this for anyone who hasnt seen it in the United vs Liverpool thread

United :
Ronaldo 33
Tevez 15
Rooney 13
Saha 5
Ferdinand 3
Giggs 3
Nani 3
Fletcher 2
Pique 2
Carrick 1
Hargreaves 1
Park 1
Scholes 1
Vidic 1
(own goals) 2
Total 84 goals

Liverpool:
Torres 27
Gerrard 19
Benayoun 10
Kuyt 9
Babel 8
Crouch 8
Voronin 4
Hyypia 3
Xabi Alonso 2
Aurelio 1
El Zhar 1
Lucas 1
Mascherano 1
Pennant 1
Sissoko 1
(own goals) 3
Total 99 goals


Top 3 scorers for both teams

Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun 56 goals from 99 goals = 56.5% of team goals
Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney 62 goals from 86 goals = 73% of team goals

DeadSkin

Was checking the match odds last night on paddypower, they have Liverpool at 3-1 for the win. Nice odds, only thing that's putting me off is Torres has only scored 2 away goals in the Prem this season.
Another way at lookin' it tho' is he has to score sometime soon away from home

Mr Magnolia

3-1 might not be all that great. When was the last time we beat Utd in Old Trafford in the league?

walshki

I wouldn't take 3-1 at this stage - the majority of these players if not all have underperformed against united regularly. Hope that changes.

_blank_

It's going to be a draw.

So is the other "grand slam" farce.

BaZmO*

The "Premier League Thriller" qouta was used up last night in the Spurs/Chelsea match. The matches on Sunday will be the usual borefests especially considering how much is riding on the games.

Jazzy

Happy birthday Fernando Torres

Malice

BaZmO* wrote: »

The "Premier League Thriller" qouta was used up last night in the Spurs/Chelsea match. The matches on Sunday will be the usual borefests especially considering how much is riding on the games.

I for one will be perfectly happy if Liverpool come away with a scruffy 1-0 courtesy of a jammy goal off Kuyt's rear end.

BaZmO*

malice_ wrote: »

I for one will be perfectly happy if Liverpool come away with a scruffy 1-0 courtesy of a jammy goal off Kuyt's rear end.

And conversely, I will be perfectly happy if Utd. come away with a scruffy 1-0 courtesy of a jammy goal off O'Shea's rear end

Malice

BaZmO* wrote: »

And conversely, I will be perfectly happy if Utd. come away with a scruffy 1-0 courtesy of a jammy goal off O'Shea's rear end

Actually if Liverpool won 1-0 courtesy of an O'Shea own goal, that would be nice too.

BaZmO*

malice_ wrote: »

Actually if Liverpool won 1-0 courtesy of an O'Shea own goal, that would be nice too.

You do know that Utd. are playing at home? Therefore a 1-0 win for Liverpool would be impossible.

Malice

BaZmO* wrote: »

You do know that Utd. are playing at home? Therefore a 1-0 win for Liverpool would be impossible.

Maybe we can look into getting Danny Murphy back for it? I'm sure Fulham won't miss him.

deisedevil

BaZmO* wrote: »

And conversely, I will be perfectly happy if Utd. come away with a scruffy 1-0 courtesy of a jammy goal off O'Shea's rear end

I couldn't write here what i said about O'Shea last year when he came on against the Pool. I couldn't say here what I was shouting after he scored either. lol.
I'll take a rebound from Reinas kickout off the ref hits gerard in the stones and dribbles over the line.

redspider

Premier League, England: Played-30 Review

We have now reached the 30-game stage for all clubs, and approach the final run-in. Its a useful time to compare performances this season.

The points tally for the clubs in games 1-10, 11-20 and 21-30 are as follows:

Arsenal     26   Chelsea     23   Man Utd     25	
Man Utd     23   Man Utd     22   Chelsea     24	
Man City    22   Arsenal     21   Everton     23	
Blackburn   21   Everton     20   Liverpool   21	
Liverpool   20   Liverpool   18   Arsenal     20	
Chelsea     18   Aston Villa 18   Portsmouth  19	
Portsmouth  18   Tottenham   17   Aston Villa 16	
Newcastle   17   West Ham    15   Blackburn   16	
Aston Villa 15   Man City    14   Wigan       15	
West Ham    14   Portsmouth  13   West Ham    14	
Everton     13   Reading     12   Man City    12	
Reading     10   Middlesbro  12   Tottenham   12	
Birmingham   8   Bolton      12   Middlesbro  11	
Fulham       8   Birmingham  11   Sunderland  10	
Sunderland   8   Blackburn    9   Birmingham   8	
Wigan        8   Newcastle    9   Bolton       8	
Middlesbro   8   Sunderland   9   Fulham       8	
Tottenham    7   Wigan        8   Reading      6	
Derby        6   Fulham       7   Derby        3	
Bolton       5   Derby        1   Newcastle    3	

What's clear to see is the continuation of Man Utd and Chelsea at the top. Everton are doing well and once again were ahead of Liverpool. Arsenal continue to slip. At the bottom, the implosion of Newcastle with a mere 3 pts is catastrophic even by their standards. Reading are also on relegation form with just 6 pts from the last 10 games. Sunderland are showing indications that they could stay up, and Wigan now seem out of danger.

The differences in point tallies between now and this stage last season are:

West Ham    +20	
Aston Villa +15	
Arsenal     +12	
Man City    +12	
Everton     +10	
Portsmouth   +8	
Blackburn    +6	
Liverpool    +5	
Wigan        -2	
Chelsea      -4	
Man Utd      -5	
Middlesbro   -5	
Newcastle    -8	
Tottenham    -9	
Fulham      -11	
Reading     -16	
Bolton      -22	

So Liverpool are +5 pts ahead of last season. Not meteoric, but a step in the right direction. Arsenal are +12 pts better off than last, and even though their tilt at the title race may be coming slightly unstuck, it is a stellar improvement. West Ham are the biggest improvers and this is a solid season for them. The same can be said of both Aston Villa and Man City, and Everton fans should be happy too.

Both Man Utd and Chelsea are slightly worse than what they were last season, which makes for a closer race. Bolton, Reading and Fulham have had the most adverse seasons, followed by Spurs.


The Played-30 Ladder Table views of the last 2 seasons looks something like this:

2006-07 Pld 30 Ladder									
75	Man U								
74									
73									
72									
71					2007-08 Pld 30 Ladder				
70					70	Man U			
69	Chelsea				69				
68					68				
67					67	Arsenal			
66					66				
65					65	Chelsea			
64					64				
63					63				
62					62				
61					61				
60					60				
59					59	Liverpool			
58					58				
57					57				
56					56	Everton			
55	Arsenal				55				
54	Liverpool			54				
53					53				
52					52				
51					51				
50					50	Portsmouth			
49					49	Aston Villa			
48					48	Man C			
47	Bolton				47				
46	Everton				46	Blackburn			
45	Tottenham			45				
44	Reading				44				
43					43	West Ham			
42	Portsmouth			42				
41					41				
40	Blackburn			40				
39					39				
38					38				
37	Newcastle			37				
36	Man C	Middlesboro		36	Tottenham			
35					35				
34	Aston Villa	Fulham		34				
33	Wigan				33				
32					32				
31	Sheff Utd			31	Wigan	Middlesboro		
30					30				
29					29	Newcastle			
28					28	Reading			
27	Charlton			27	Birmingham	Sunderland		
26					26				
25					25	Bolton			
24					24				
23	West Ham			23	Fulham			
22					22				
21					21				
20	Watford				20				
					19				
					18				
					17				
					16				
					15				
					14				
					13				
					12				
					11				
					10	Derby			

redspider

mike65

Interesting.

Looks like Carson will not be staying at Villa, they won't pay the money and Paul Robinson is being targeted according to the papers. (wtf?).

Luis Garcia is probably leaving Atletico this summer.

Mike.

Malice

mike65 wrote: »

Luis Garcia is probably leaving Atletico this summer.

Apparently Garcia has been inconsistent for Atletico this season. That's not surprising, he frustrated and delighted during his time at Liverpool. To borrow a phrase: When he was good he was very, very good but when he was bad he was horrid.

NotWormBoy

Garcia inconsistent? ;-) Never. Shocker alright.

machiavellianme

Jazzy wrote: »

aye, getting through utd's defence will be the hardest part about the match. ferdinand had torres in his pocket last game... lets hope he makes one of his patented f-ups

Yes but no ferdinand this time. Pique will have to have the game of his life to keep up with Fernando

gucci

mike65 wrote: »

Interesting.

Looks like Carson will not be staying at Villa, they won't pay the money and Paul Robinson is being targeted according to the papers. (wtf?).

Luis Garcia is probably leaving Atletico this summer.

Mike.

Is there anything about where Garcia will go? Will he move to a nice coastal team for a nice rest for the last few years of his career or will Keegan buy hiim for 12million?

At least Carson is in the England squad again, so he might be able to get a move to a decent club, although at what price? If he isnt kept on at Villa then i'd be a little worried if i was him, career would be in limbo a bit as to where to go next.

gucci

Andriy Voronins wife knows how to dress for the March weather:pac::pac:

lpool2k05

machiavellianme wrote: »

Yes but no ferdinand this time. Pique will have to have the game of his life to keep up with Fernando

I wouldnt be suprised if Rio made an amazing recovery :mad: More mind games!!

~Rebel~

IF Rio doesn't start (and i still think he will), I wouldn't be surprised to see Wes Brown beside Vidic and Neville at RB. He's been playing reserve games and you just know he'll be pestering Sir to play this one!

machiavellianme

lpool2k05 wrote: »

I wouldnt be suprised if Rio made an amazing recovery :mad: More mind games!!

I'd say he's just so terrified that Torres will skin him that Rio has been too afraid to even play Derby and Bolton last week as the trauma overwhelmed him.

Zapp Brannigan

I've no doubt Rio will be starting. But this time Torres is on an incredible vein of form so he might have enough to wreck Rio's head the entire match.

Waster

Ferdinand will definitely start in my opinion. It's only Fergie getting an excuse ready to prevent him going to play for England.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Looking forward to Rios regular fnck up, difference for us is that now we have somebody who could capitalise up top for us.

Dub13

Dub13 wrote:

For the next 2 Weeks Irishkop will be Running a Reverse Auction with the Money Raised going to the Bob Paisley Memorial Fund.

You will be Bidding for 2 Tkts to the Liverpool V Arsenal Champions League Quarter Final at Anfield on Tuesday April 8th.the Lowest Unique Bid will Win.

Bids Cost 5 Euro each and you can Bid as often as you wish.

to Submit a Bid(s) you need to PM avidmerrion and ihe will give you a Reference Number and the Sort Code and Number of an Account where you can Lodge the Money.make sure you include the Reference Number when Lodging the Money or we will not know who the Money is from.

On Receipt of your Money you will then be Contacted to Submit your Bid(s).
to give the successful Bidder Time to organise Travel and Accomodation we will Close the Auction at 1.30 pm on Tuesday April 1st,that's a full Week before the Game.

So get your Bids in ASAP and hopefully we can Raise a nice few Quid for Sir Bob.
Good Luck!

We are now taken Pay Pal for this.

Thanx 4 The Fish

How is the fundraising going Dub ?

BTW, I would take Garcia back gladly, always handy to have if only to bring to unlock a defence or score a wonder goal, or of course give the ball away needlessly.

~Rebel~

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

How is the fundraising going Dub ?

BTW, I would take Garcia back gladly, always handy to have if only to bring to unlock a defence or score a wonder goal, or of course give the ball away needlessly.

The new WF role we have is pretty much perfect for him now as well. Him and Babel in those positions would be an improvement on Kuyt. I still love Kuyt's work efthic and he can put in a great cross, but when we're trying to attack quickly, everything slows down when the ball goes to him. He's better at just being up front near goal rather then being involved from the halfway line.

Dub13

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

How is the fundraising going Dub ?

Its gong a long nicely,the 5 a side is getting bigger all the time and the 2 Arsenal Cl Tickets are bringing in a few bob.Its great to see different fans groups all pulling together for the one cause.

As for the memorial,The granite has been ordered and will be ready in plenty of time for the summer.The money is been spent as it comes in so this means we need to get the rest in asap.

Chardee MacDennis

would take him back in an instant - would be a huge improvement on Dirk. although i assume next year we will ahve a proper rw, fingers crossed!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Agreed, let Kuyt drag them all over the place for an hour and then bring on little Luis to do some work out there, he cuts in well too and can score coming in off the wing. As well as that, tomkinson worked out that Garcia was involved in more goals (goal/assist/touch for the assist) than any other player at the team. some of his stupid looking passes would look a lot better too if Torres was running on to them as opposed to Crouch or Baros.

Dub13

Irishkop have been offered seats on a Private Charter - Aer Arran for the champions league game against Arsenal

Departs Dublin 2pm
Direct to John Lennon Airport Liverpool
Transfers To & From Anfield,
Departs - depending on on Extra time approx 11.30
Price- €240. No extra's taxes ect ect


Its expensive I know, but its private charter, and for convenience, only half day from work, and no hotels, back in Dublin just after midnight. check in up to 1.30 latest

Places are limited if your interested please private message me

mike65

So the campaign to bring back little Luis starts here! Unfortunatly Garcia returned to Spain cos he wanted to. Rafa would'nt back-track now even though he would have kept him.

Mike.

Tusky

Luis would be a big step backwards. He did very well for us in some big games but he isnt good enough to improve the first 11. We have plenty of decent attackers good enough for the bench (Benayoun, Pennant, Kewell, Crouch, Kuyt) but very few that are good enough to start regularly (Torres, Gerrard, Babel).

We need to bring in signings that will instantly improve the first XI in my opinion.

PHB

Kuyt has lots that Garcia didn't have, Garcia had lots that Kuyt didn't have, neither are good enough for the first 11, personally I'd prefer Garcia as a squad player. Nonetheless, you want somebody who is both Kuyt and Garcia

shotamoose

I think Kuyt is the better midfielder and Garcia the better striker, which is sort of the wrong way around.

Jazzy

PHB wrote: »

Kuyt has lots that Garcia didn't have, Garcia had lots that Kuyt didn't have, neither are good enough for the first 11, personally I'd prefer Garcia as a squad player. Nonetheless, you want somebody who is both Kuyt and Garcia

exactly my feelings.... even tho Kuyt is the SCORPION! rawr!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Does he glow under UV light like scorpions do ? That would be a good way to check

mike65

Michael Robinson talks to Fernando Torres (and a few old blokes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR8EU8UaHZo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tto7bcWUy3k&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQtH4Gh79Zk

Mike

zAbbo

Everton drawing, puts them 2 points behind with a game in hand for us (today versus some team)

Chardee MacDennis

just watched that Micahel Robinson interview, great interview from Torres but Souness is a fool.

Chardee MacDennis

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez is confident of beating off competition from Atletico Madrid to land Blackburn's David Bentley in a £12million swoop. (Sunday People)

as much as i do like Bentley I don't think he is the step in class we need, i would be expect someone a bracket above him.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Sounness does indeed have a touch of the fool about him.

I fancy us today but I fancied us last game and we had no joy too.

There'll be something in the goal tonight,
When reds Unite,
Fernando.....

come on Boyos, let's be avin youuuuuu.