Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

jesus_thats_gre

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The Pool were shocking today. Mascherano a total plonker! I can't remember the last time we had a decent winger in the team, and Skrytel is another brutal benitez buy. Might to sell a rake of players and bring in some proven talent. Also, such a depth of good players at united - very few young players at liverpool who can come off the bench and do the damage of the likes of nani. Any chance of berbatov coming to LFC? Nothing short of a champions league will do this year.

Jesus christ. It is bad enough having opposing fans come out with nonsense like this but our own supporters? It breaks my heart!


Skrtel has been extremely solid since he joined the club! He is far from being a brutal buy.

United have the depth because they have been building that squad for 7 or 8 years and have spend an absolute fortune on it. The fact that they could have Tevez and Nani on the bench is a reflection the position that they are in.

Rafa has spent 100 million off on 20 players in the past 4 years. United have spent virtually the same amount on 5 or 6 players. They were able to do this as the 20 man squad that Rafa has been building for the past 4 years was already in place at United.

No being able to realise that is somewhat worrying tbh. In terms of development, they are are about 3 years ahead of us. That is reflected in the number of superior players that they have throughout their whole squad when compared to ours.

d22ontour

el rabitos wrote: »

as a team we were second best from the start, had a bit of a push for about 15 minutes in the second half but that ended with their second goal.

2 of their goals were from bad individual errors, alonso and reina

alonso had another poor game, he's just a spectator with the best view of the game.

aurelio was the biggest plus for me today, thought he kept ronaldo in his pocket down the right flank for utd. always had a question mark over aurelio defencively, showed alot of composure and confidence today. hope he stays fit next season for the duration.

united defended from the front, hounded us, first to most balls, pressured us when we had it. basically owned us tbh.

masch was an idiot, when your manager has to come down the line to get you off the pitch you've crossed the line to embarrasing the club territory. wanted to slap the head off him at that stage myself. he's done us no favours, he's a top player and we need him.

having said that, the ref was a joke, mach and torres were booked needlessly, i just hate the reaction, complaining to the point that benitez had to restrain him was immature and unprofessional imo.

my expectations were low going into it, hoped for a draw, a win would have been awesome, but we cant compete with them or chelsea or arsenal on a sustained level right now.

if we sold the amount of players that deserved to be sold in the summer we'd have so many players to replace that it would take years to mount a challenge.

4th spot and at least 1 hole dug in the ground at stanley park would be a good year at this point. we need that stadium.

Excellent post , agree with the ref bit too.Consistency and referees don't go hand in hand.

Malice

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

In other news, colour of magic is on in an hour and a half, that should a decent show, unlike the game today

Thanks for reminding me. I will definitely take a look at that.

As for the match, yet again the ref costs us. While it won't change anything, I would like referees to have the opportunity to explain their decisions. Why was Torres booked for getting clattered but Ronaldo does a dying swan impression later and gets nothing. Why was Mascherano booked for sliding in on Carrick but Rooner gets nothing for clattering Reina?
If there is to be a clampdown on players talking, not abusing or shouting but talking to the ref then I expect games to be abandoned left, right and centre as players will be sent off all over the place.
Regarding the goals I thought we were suprisingly vulnerable. Both Alonso and Skrtel lost their man for the first two goals. Reina, despite some excellent saves in one on one situations also looked quite shakey.
As for positives to take from the match, I can't really think of any .

Thanx 4 The Fish

malice_ wrote: »

Thanks for reminding me. I will definitely take a look at that.

you're welcome

malice_ wrote: »

As for positives to take from the match, I can't really think of any .

It's over....

The Chessplayer

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Jesus christ. It is bad enough having opposing fans come out with nonsense like this but our own supporters? It breaks my heart!


Skrtel has been extremely solid since he joined the club! He is far from being a brutal buy.

United have the depth because they have been building that squad for 7 or 8 years and have spend an absolute fortune on it. The fact that they could have Tevez and Nani on the bench is a reflection the position that they are in.

Rafa has spent 100 million off on 20 players in the past 4 years. United have spent virtually the same amount on 5 or 6 players. They were able to do this as the 20 man squad that Rafa has been building for the past 4 years was already in place at United.

No being able to realise that is somewhat worrying tbh. In terms of development, they are are about 3 years ahead of us. That is reflected in the number of superior players that they have throughout their whole squad when compared to ours.

We were absolutely hopped off today. Even a blindman can see that! To say that we are in a period of transition is the most feeble excuse. What a load of cobblers!!! We've been in transition since Roy Evans took the reins. Apart from Torres we had a better team when we won the champs league. Totally stand by my comment about our wingers - look at the state of benayoun and pennant. Babel would only be a bench player at united until he develops a bit more. Not sure why you're raving about Skertel - Portsmouth, Man City and Spurs have better centre-backs than that lad.

The state of Mascherano today - what a plonker.

Dirk Kuyt is absolutely shocking! :eek: How is he still wearing a red shirt?

jesus_thats_gre

The Chessplayer wrote: »

We were absolutely hopped off today. Even a blindman can see that! To say that we are in a period of transition is the most feeble excuse. What a load of cobblers!!! We've been in transition since Roy Evans took the reins. Apart from Torres we had a better team when we won the champs league. Totally stand by my comment about our wingers - look at the state of benayoun and pennant. Babel would only be a bench player at united until he develops a bit more. Not sure why you're raving about Skertel - Portsmouth, Man City and Spurs have better centre-backs than that lad.

The state of Mascherano today - what a plonker.

Dirk Kuyt is absolutely shocking! :eek: How is he still wearing a red shirt?

Are you taking the piss? We had a better team when won the CL?

The Chessplayer

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Are you taking the piss? We had a better team when won the CL?

Well, we are hardly light-years ahead of where we were. At least now we have a decent striker in Torres. Too much raving about Mascherano. He's a ball-winner, not a match-winner. No better than Hamann in his prime.

With your attitude you'd be better off supporting Aston Villa. Look how much losing Agger has affected us. God help us if Torres and Gerrard got injured.

I have loyalty to the club, and it pains me to see these Aston Villa calibre players at my club. Sunderland wouldn't even take some of our cast offs. Benitez has had a miserable season. If Arsenal knock us out of Europe then I think Benitez should be sacked. No manager is bigger than the club.

If the club doesn't cop itself on we run the risk of getting leap-frogged by Spurs.

Chardee MacDennis

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Well, we are hardly light-years ahead of where we were. At least now we have a decent striker in Torres. Too much raving about Mascherano. He's a ball-winner, not a match-winner. No better than Hamann in his prime.

With your attitude you'd be better off supporting Aston Villa. Look how much losing Agger has affected us. God help us if Torres and Gerrard got injured.

I have loyalty to the club, and it pains me to see these Aston Villa calibre players at my club. Sunderland wouldn't even take some of our cast offs. Benitez has had a miserable season. If Arsenal knock us out of Europe then I think Benitez should be sacked. No manager is bigger than the club.

If the club doesn't cop itself on we run the risk of getting leap-frogged by Spurs.

jesus giving villa a hard time there; i would take a few of their players off them any day and so would most of the prem. we've discussed the torres and gerrard thing to death and we're not as bad as you think if we lose them.

and Masch is only 23/24, Hamann was 27 when he signed for us, Masch still has a lot of developing to do, particularly mentally it would seem; but I would be very surprised if he ended up not being a much better signing than didi.

Malice

The Chessplayer wrote: »

If Arsenal knock us out of Europe then I think Benitez should be sacked.

So who would you replace him with?

Chardee MacDennis

Rafa backs Masch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/7310584.stm

Dr Galen

this discussion has come up over and over and over again. No disrespect to you but you seem to be living in Championship Manager Land mate.

We simply haven't had the funds to go out and spend the money that we'd need to in order to meet your standards of player. Its taken years for Man Utd to get to level that they are at. I agree there is mediocrity in the squad, but you can't change that in 3 seasons. That takes time, and although I've had my doubts about Rafa from time to time, sacking him this season would have no real benefit to the club, would in fact set us back about 2 years

The Chessplayer

Call_me_al wrote: »

jesus giving villa a hard time there; i would take a few of their players off them any day and so would most of the prem. we've discussed the torres and gerrard thing to death and we're not as bad as you think if we lose them.

and Masch is only 23/24, Hamann was 27 when he signed for us, Masch still has a lot of developing to do, particularly mentally it would seem; but I would be very surprised if he ended up not being a much better signing than didi.

Look - i don't care about gerrard, benitez or mascherano. The club is more important than any personality. This is the business end of the season and we should be fighting for the title. I'm not interested in having a perpetual transitionary period. Liverpool should be serious challengers for all honours - every single year.

Mascherano was an absolute disgrace today. Reina was brutal as well.

The Chessplayer

malice_ wrote: »

So who would you replace him with?

Martin O'Neill. Has always done well with crap players - and we have no shortage of them. We need a safe pair of hands.

A few weeks ago, Benitez came out and admitted that tactics will never be as effective in the Prem as in Europe. He's been managing LFC for a few years and he has only just figured this out.

Dr Galen

The club is more important than any personality.

agreed, though I think that this has been shown to be the case. up til this game though Masch, Gerrard and Torres have been pretty good

This is the business end of the season and we should be fighting for the title. I'm not interested in having a perpetual transitionary period. Liverpool should be serious challengers for all honours - every single year.

while as a Liverpool supporter I want the team to be challenging too, I would love to know how you feel things should be running or maybe some solutions to the problems that your highlighting. Since Souness was in charge, Liverpool have had a lack of squad quality, Rafa has had 3 years in charge and has set about slowly building a decent squad. The rights and wrongs of how hw has gone about this have been discussed to death on here, but how you can think that the squad is worse now than when we won the CL is nonsense IMHO.

IF his current policy of buying quality players now instead of decent squad (or Villa players or you call them ) e.g Torres, Masch continues our first 11 will be vastly improved in the next year or two, with a decent backup in every position. That WILL bring us the league.

DSB

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Martin O'Neill.

Please take him off our hands.

~Rebel~

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Martin O'Neill. Has always done well with crap players - and we have no shortage of them. We need a safe pair of hands.

A few weeks ago, Benitez came out and admitted that tactics will never be as effective in the Prem as in Europe. He's been managing LFC for a few years and he has only just figured this out.

so..you critisise Rafa's transfer activity, and then suggest the man who neglected to have a single right back at his club..I really like Martin O Neil and all, but it makes no sense to opt for him to do well in the transfer market and solve our 'transitional' problems.

Dr Galen

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Martin O'Neill. Has always done well with crap players - and we have no shortage of them. We need a safe pair of hands.

A few weeks ago, Benitez came out and admitted that tactics will never be as effective in the Prem as in Europe. He's been managing LFC for a few years and he has only just figured this out.

what makes you think he'd leave Villa? He's always been a manager known for hanging around and finishing the job he has. Certainly Liverpool would be attractive to any manager, but can't see him leaving Villa this year anyway.

Anyone else you could suggest?You do realise though that any new manager will have to deal with exactly the same issues hat Rafa has. A new manager isn;t going to get handed 200million and told to rebuild the squad Abramovic style

Sqaull20

The Chessplayer wrote: »

We were absolutely hopped off today. Even a blindman can see that! To say that we are in a period of transition is the most feeble excuse. What a load of cobblers!!! We've been in transition since Roy Evans took the reins. Apart from Torres we had a better team when we won the champs league. Totally stand by my comment about our wingers - look at the state of benayoun and pennant. Babel would only be a bench player at united until he develops a bit more. Not sure why you're raving about Skertel - Portsmouth, Man City and Spurs have better centre-backs than that lad.

The state of Mascherano today - what a plonker.

Dirk Kuyt is absolutely shocking! :eek: How is he still wearing a red shirt?

Bang on...

evil_seed

i was wondering how long the "sack rafa" brigade was gonna take to raise their nasty little heads. 4 hrs not bad. we're hardly at crisis point. we haven't been at crisis point all season in my opinion, it was just the press had to talk about something after there was no more mourinho. rafa knows what he's doing. too many people want the quick fix these days its pathetic

Dr Galen

evil_seed wrote: »

i was wondering how long the "sack rafa" brigade was gonna take to raise their nasty little heads. 4 hrs not bad. we're hardly at crisis point. we haven't been at crisis point all season in my opinion, it was just the press had to talk about something after there was no more mourinho. rafa knows what he's doing. too many people want the quick fix these days its pathetic

Bang on...

leninbenjamin

evil_seed wrote: »

we're hardly at crisis point. we haven't been at crisis point all season in my opinion, it was just the press had to talk about something after there was no more mourinho. rafa knows what he's doing. too many people want the quick fix these days its pathetic

haven't exactly gone forward much though in time Benitez was there. Wenger has built almost a brand new team capable of mounting a title challenge (which sadly may have come to a premature end this day but still...), with less resources in a similarish period. I think it's fair to expect more of Benitez.

evil_seed

^^
correct me if i'm wrong but apart from adebayor, gallas and sagna havent the rest of the arsenal team been there for 4 plus years. they know the system. it hasnt changed from the days of petite and overmars. stability is the key. sacking rafa will only undo all the work he has done and hence have more unstability

Kimbot

Listened to most of this on the radio and caught the last 30 minutes on TV.
Have to say the Ref was inconsisstant, Ronaldo dived looking for a peno and no card was shown... is that what Fergie was talking about during the week by saying refs have to protect him?? i.e. let him try and cheat. If I was a ref and saw that he would have gotten booked straight away.
Torres' card was a bit stupid from what I saw and Masch should have kept his mouth shut but he didn't.

leninbenjamin

evil_seed wrote: »

^^
correct me if i'm wrong but apart from adebayor, gallas and sagna havent the rest of the arsenal team been there for 4 plus years. they know the system. it hasnt changed from the days of petite and overmars. stability is the key. sacking rafa will only undo all the work he has done and hence have more unstability

add Hleb, Rosicky, Flamini, Eduardo, Walcott, Eboué, Van Persie, Diaby... all under 4 years... Toure at six years has been the longest at the club of all the current starting 11 ( I believe).

point is, look at the progress Wenger made in that 4 year period. in a similar period Benetiz hasn't even come close really. I mean the majority of the same vulnerabilities are there that he inherited from day 1, aren't they?

Mental Mickey

Mascherano is a f**king twit. What was he trying to prove to the ref by shouting at him?? Was he trying to show how well his English speaking had been progressing!!?? :rolleyes:

Idiot. And when Rafa was asked about it, he said that he asked Ryan Babel what happened, and of course, Babel said "nothing"!??

I don't see Benitez being at Liverpool for too much longer, if we don't mount a serious challenge for the title................?

shotamoose

If the best argument against Rafa is that he's not Arsene Wenger, then that's not a very good argument. I agree, Wenger is a wonderful manager, but if we sack Rafa we don't get Wenger, we get someone else who might be worse and we might also wave bye bye to some of the very good signings Rafa has made, particularly the Spanish speaking contingent two of whom may have had very bad days today but should form part of the spine of the team for years to come. I'm not saying we hang onto Rafa come what may but I don't think today proves he can't deliver the goods. Right now, I'm more concerned about the lack of maturity and leadership shown by some of the players, particularly the trio in central midfield.

Mikeyt086

Lads you remember that Liverpool Simpsons pic?

Well i asked the guy/girl who made it about the chances of a United one and, it turns out, he/she got paid $1,100 for it! Turns out it was a project that someone paid $1,100 for.

Madness.

spockety

leninbenjamin wrote: »

haven't exactly gone forward much though in time Benitez was there. Wenger has built almost a brand new team capable of mounting a title challenge (which sadly may have come to a premature end this day but still...), with less resources in a similarish period. I think it's fair to expect more of Benitez.

Haha, yes, and Arsene Wengers record at Arsenal since Benitez took the reigns at Liverpool has been spectacular, hasn't it?
(in case you've forgotten, Benitez has steered Liverpool higher in the league than Arsenal for 2 of his 3 full seasons so far,
and this season isn't over yet)

Honestly, what team to you think is more likely to come away with a trophy from this season... Wenger's Arsenal, or Benitez's Liverpool?

d22ontour

spockety wrote: »

Honestly, what team to you think is more likely to come away with a trophy from this season... Wenger's Arsenal, or Benitez's Liverpool?

For me i would say Benitez, Arsenal look like a tired team.Scousers in Europe is a fear for me .

Cyrus

usual reactionary rubbish in a lot of the posts above

we had a bad day but even before the sending off we were on our way to being beaten by this years champions who were better on the day, it wouldnt have been 3 but it doesnt really matter

masch was silly but bennet had a shocker and is a disgrace

we should comfortable finish fourth and hopefully continue to progress in the champions league.

i think rafa should be given next season at least, if he were to finish in the top three and within 10 points of the title then that would be real progress

HashSlinging

Mascherano? he was bound to be sent off at some stage of the game he should have been subbed once he got the yellow card, v bad management tactics from liverpool. I'm not sure if it made much of an impact on the game as utd were all over liverpool 90% of the time.

This is ten minutes into the game..

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mgt_Ry9ljGI

Mental Mickey

HashSlinging wrote: »

Mascherano? he was bound to be sent off at some stage of the game he should have been subbed once he got the yellow card, v bad management tactics from liverpool. I'm not sure if it made much of an impact on the game as utd were all over liverpool 90% of the time.

This is ten minutes into the game..

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mgt_Ry9ljGI

And the muppet said it at least twice more before he was sent off!!!:rolleyes: Idiot.

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

usual reactionary rubbish in a lot of the posts above

we had a bad day but even before the sending off we were on our way to being beaten by this years champions who were better on the day, it wouldnt have been 3 but it doesnt really matter

masch was silly but bennet had a shocker and is a disgrace

we should comfortable finish fourth and hopefully continue to progress in the champions league.

i think rafa should be given next season at least, if he were to finish in the top three and within 10 points of the title then that would be real progress

Are you Andy Gray in disguise??? Granted, Bennett is not one of the better referees, but no official should have to put up with that!? Masch seemed to be wound up from the start. He deserved to be sent off. He ran across the pitch after Torres was fouled to have a go at the ref......what sort of idiot is he?

Cyrus

doesnt look like f off to me? and if it was who was it aimed it?

why would liverpool have taken their best player off? if bennet wasnt such a twat he wouldnt have been complaining in the first place and would not have been sent off, united fans have short memories, i remember keane followed by a pack hunting referees around the pitch for years.

Cyrus

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Are you Andy Gray in disguise??? Granted, Bennett is not one of the better referees, but no official should have to put up with that!? Masch seemed to be wound up from the start. He deserved to be sent off. He ran across the pitch after Torres was fouled to have a go at the ref......what sort of idiot is he?

he asked him what was that for, what exactly did bennet have to put up with? after he booked torres for nothing......

Thanx 4 The Fish

Certainly looks like it to me, but he was not sent off for that, was he...

Jazzy

HashSlinging wrote: »

he should have been subbed once he got the yellow card, v bad management tactics from liverpool.
This is ten minutes into the game..

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mgt_Ry9ljGI

in a big game like that its pointless to sub b4 half time unless its an injury.
you should have enough faith in your players and captain that they wont make a tit out of themselves and get sent off needlessly.
lesson learnt for masch here i reckon - dont be a f**kin spare tit in a big game like that.

in a way tho im glad to see some fire outta a liverpool player like that. i think its something we sometimes miss (obviously dont get sent off or carded cos of it)

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

doesnt look like f off to me? and if it was who was it aimed it?

why would liverpool have taken their best player off? if bennet wasnt such a twat he wouldnt have been complaining in the first place and would not have been sent off, united fans have short memories, i remember keane followed by a pack hunting referees around the pitch for years.

Read my post again. I didn't say that Liverpool should have taken their best player off!!?? I said Mascherano DESERVED to be sent off. And he did say **** off to Bennett at least twice. Have a look on youtube again, and you'll find it.

Cyrus

wasnt replying to you, post above that

and players tell the ref the f off all the time, it happens every game, in fact rooney does it most games too

d22ontour

Cyrus wrote: »

doesnt look like f off to me? and if it was who was it aimed it?

why would liverpool have taken their best player off? if bennet wasnt such a twat he wouldnt have been complaining in the first place and would not have been sent off, united fans have short memories, i remember keane followed by a pack hunting referees around the pitch for years.

Such a pathetic reply.Most United fans that i knew at the time thought it was a disgrace how they acted even if the replay justified the ref got it wrong.Unfortunatley for you that is irrelevent seeing as most of us have joindates that surpass that event by years.

/phail for you.

:rolleyes:

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

wasnt replying to you, post above that

and players tell the ref the f off all the time, it happens every game, in fact rooney does it most games too

Yeah, but Mascherano overdid it, imo. Bennett told him to keep quiet, but he kept it up. Even Benitez was screaming at him(Masch)from the sidelines, trying to calm him down.

Mental Mickey

d22ontour wrote: »

Such a pathetic reply.Most United fans that i knew at the time thought it was a disgrace how they acted even if the replay justified the ref got it wrong.Unfortunatley for you that is irrelevent seeing as most of us have joindates that surpass that event by years.

/phail for you.

:rolleyes:

LOL

HashSlinging

Cyrus wrote: »

doesnt look like f off to me? and if it was who was it aimed it?

why would liverpool have taken their best player off? if bennet wasnt such a twat he wouldnt have been complaining in the first place and would not have been sent off, united fans have short memories, i remember keane followed by a pack hunting referees around the pitch for years.

ref's were out to make a skapegoat of someone after the ashley cole incident last week, if Mascherano had an issue he should have gone to gerrard not the ref esp after a yellow card AND a verbal warning...

Cyrus

d22ontour wrote: »

Such a pathetic reply.Most United fans that i knew at the time thought it was a disgrace how they acted even if the replay justified the ref got it wrong.Unfortunatley for you that is irrelevent seeing as most of us have joindates that surpass that event by years.

/phail for you.

:rolleyes:

yeah, funny because none of the united fans i know thought it was, they must all be gone and be replaced with considerate caring types who see things differently :rolleyes:

Cyrus

Mental Mickey wrote: »

LOL

glad you lads are amusing each other

Mental Mickey

HashSlinging wrote: »

ref's were out to make a skapegoat of someone after the ashley cole incident last week, if Mascherano had an issue he should have gone to gerrard not the ref esp after a yellow card AND a verbal warning...

Which is why the same rule that is in rugby needs to be brought into soccer......ASAP

jesus_thats_gre

Lads, can you **** off with the bickering to the thread discussing the match?

Mental Mickey

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Lads, can you **** off with the bickering to the thread discussing the match?

Who's bickering? Not me, for one.

themont85

Apparently Rooney swore something like 30 times in a couple of minutes, according to graham poll in a game. But he didn't send him of because they were directed at poll, just generally swearing at anything

HashSlinging

no this is a general discussion thread, and were discussing generally **** off yourself.