Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mental Mickey

HashSlinging wrote: »

no this is a general discussion thread, and were discussing generally **** off yourself.

:rolleyes: Whatever.

HashSlinging

themont85 wrote: »

Apparently Rooney swore something like 30 times in a couple of minutes, according to graham poll in a game. But he didn't send him of because they were directed at poll, just generally swearing at anything

Tourettes time!!


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cD6RV4Rb8

Mental Mickey

HashSlinging wrote: »

Tourettes time!!


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cD6RV4Rb8

What's that got to do with Rooney or Masch????

:rolleyes:

BaZmO*

HashSlinging wrote: »

Mascherano? he was bound to be sent off at some stage of the game he should have been subbed once he got the yellow card, v bad management tactics from liverpool. I'm not sure if it made much of an impact on the game as utd were all over liverpool 90% of the time.

This is ten minutes into the game..

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=mgt_Ry9ljGI

If Benitez had of taken him off that early in the game he would've been crucified by fans and media alike. If anything the ref should've went over to Gerrard and told him that if Masch doesn't STFU he'll be taking an early bath. In the end the ref was right to send him off but he could've prevented it. And failing that Gerrard should've seen it coming and had a word anyway.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Certainly looks like it to me, but he was not sent off for that, was he...

It was for constant dissent throughout the game. Think the ref just had enough.

Mental Mickey

BaZmO* wrote: »

If Benitez had of taken him off that early in the game he would've been crucified by fans and media alike. If anything the ref should've went over to Gerrard and told him that if Masch doesn't STFU he'll be taking an early bath. In the end the ref was right to send him off but he could've prevented it. And failing that Gerrard should've seen it coming and had a word anyway.



It was for constant dissent throughout the game. Think the ref just had enough.

Bang on.

d22ontour

Mental Mickey wrote: »

:rolleyes: Whatever.

Don't reply to being told to fúck off. It get you banned apparently.

:eek:

Mental Mickey

d22ontour wrote: »

Don't reply to being told to fúck off. It get you banned apparently.

:eek:

What??

d22ontour

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What??

That was my 'fight teh powah' remark for being banned for replying to someone who told me to fúck off not once but twice ...

HashSlinging

BaZmO* wrote: »

If Benitez had of taken him off that early in the game he would've been crucified by fans and media alike. If anything the ref should've went over to Gerrard and told him that if Masch doesn't STFU he'll be taking an early bath. In the end the ref was right to send him off but he could've prevented it. And failing that Gerrard should've seen it coming and had a word anyway.

Since when have the media and fans crucified a manager for being proactive, and making the right decision, he got a yellow and a warning, how many red lights does benitez need!! another big game next weekend no Masch for that whole game not good enough from benitez.

Everyone calm feckin down with the ****'s

Mental Mickey

d22ontour wrote: »

That was my 'fight teh powah' remark for being banned for replying to someone who told me to fúck off not once but twice ...

Surely the person who tells YOU(or me)to f... off should be banned, and not the person at the receiving end???

BaZmO*

HashSlinging wrote: »

Since when have the media and fans crucified a manager for being proactive, and making the right decision, he got a yellow and a warning, how many red lights does benitez need!! another big game next weekend no Masch for that whole game not good enough from benitez.

It's all very well saying that Benitez should've known he'd be sent off, and maybe he did, but he would've needed to have taken him off after 30mins and that would've been madness and he would've gotten stick for it.

HashSlinging

If a player is displaying traits like Masch did (yellow and warning) he should be subbed asap, rather than risk being a man down, I've seen plenty of games where this has happened, its school boy level football managment.

BaZmO*

So what you're saying is that Rafa is no better than a schoolboy manager? Interesting...

HashSlinging

Intersting way of twisting what I wrote, you know exactly what I mean. It was a bad tactical decision by him to keep him on, how does that make it sound like I'm questioning rafas' managment style as a whole.

Chardee MacDennis

HashSlinging wrote: »

If a player is displaying traits like Masch did (yellow and warning) he should be subbed asap, rather than risk being a man down, I've seen plenty of games where this has happened, its school boy level football managment.

well that means any time gerrard, carra, rooney, ferdinand, terry, eboue, toure gets booked they'll all have to come off coz they all give terrible abuse to refs.

watching it again i am amazed how Alonso and Auriello just stood there watching, but maybe it's because Masch wasn't incensed but actually smiling when he approached Bennet.

oobydooby

HashSlinging wrote: »

If a player is displaying traits like Masch did (yellow and warning) he should be subbed asap, rather than risk being a man down

Only saw some of the start of this match, but Masch was reminding me of Pennant against Porto earlier in the season. I think Benitez likes players who have discipline and I'm sure he'll be livid privately with Masch. Dunno if he should have subbed him so soon so early in the match but perhaps taken him off for 3 or 4 minutes to see if he was calm and then sub him if not.

No complaints here about the 2nd yellow - I still don't know why Torres was booked But I'd like to see all refs being consistent in terms of dissent. Also Masch only seemed to really lose the head after being sent off, not before being sent off. I hope this talk of a 6 game ban is just rubbish.

The Chessplayer

evil_seed wrote: »

i was wondering how long the "sack rafa" brigade was gonna take to raise their nasty little heads. 4 hrs not bad. we're hardly at crisis point. we haven't been at crisis point all season in my opinion, it was just the press had to talk about something after there was no more mourinho. rafa knows what he's doing. too many people want the quick fix these days its pathetic

Benitez hasn't got the guile to bring the league to Anfield. Winning trophies is all that matters. It's not like Rafa's family will go hungry if he gets the sack.

I don't like the way he has Liverpool playing either. At least Wenger aspires to good football. Too many on here talking about him slowly putting a squad together. He has had plenty of time in fairness. Benitez bringing the league to Anfield is a fairytale.

Chardee MacDennis

oobydooby wrote: »

I hope this talk of a 6 game ban is just rubbish.

:eek: that cant be right... there is no ay anything he did on the pitch deserves anything more than the 1 game ban he is due, especially when you put it in context of what goes on at every game.

also it is ridiculous to introduce a policy like this mid-season (if indeed it's not just bennett acting up) as it is not fair to just punish one team mid season why not wait to the new season and then BAM anytime someone gives crap to the ref yellow - i would fully support it but at the moment Masch looks like a victim of Ashley Cole acting like a fool over the week.

oh and btw did anyone hear andy gray saying Everet (sp?) the head of the ref's said Bennett should have come on the pitch in the chelsea game, he was the 4th official, and sent off Cole! surely the 4th official doesnt have that power?

Mental Mickey

Call_me_al wrote: »

:eek: that cant be right... there is no ay anything he did on the pitch deserves anything more than the 1 game ban he is due, especially when you put it in context of what goes on at every game.

also it is ridiculous to introduce a policy like this mid-season (if indeed it's not just bennett acting up) as it is not fair to just punish one team mid season why not wait to the new season and then BAM anytime someone gives crap to the ref yellow - i would fully support it but at the moment Masch looks like a victim of Ashley Cole acting like a fool over the week.

oh and btw did anyone hear andy gray saying Everet (sp?) the head of the ref's said Bennett should have come on the pitch in the chelsea game, he was the 4th official, and sent off Cole! surely the 4th official doesnt have that power?

Andy Gray simply doesn't like Steve Bennett. He has an easy job in his nice studio, with the benefit of replays and such. Referees have to make quick decisions on the spot. I think he was dead right to send off Mascherano - the guy was giving lip from the start of the match.

Mental Mickey

oobydooby wrote: »

Only saw some of the start of this match, but Masch was reminding me of Pennant against Porto earlier in the season. I think Benitez likes players who have discipline and I'm sure he'll be livid privately with Masch. Dunno if he should have subbed him so soon so early in the match but perhaps taken him off for 3 or 4 minutes to see if he was calm and then sub him if not.No complaints here about the 2nd yellow - I still don't know why Torres was booked But I'd like to see all refs being consistent in terms of dissent. Also Masch only seemed to really lose the head after being sent off, not before being sent off. I hope this talk of a 6 game ban is just rubbish.

What do you mean by this? A player can't be taken off, then brought back on, and then subbed again????

roar_ie

that cant be right... there is no ay anything he did on the pitch deserves anything more than the 1 game ban he is due, especially when you put it in context of what goes on at every game.

also it is ridiculous to introduce a policy like this mid-season (if indeed it's not just bennett acting up) as it is not fair to just punish one team mid season why not wait to the new season and then BAM anytime someone gives crap to the ref yellow - i would fully support it but at the moment Masch looks like a victim of Ashley Cole acting like a fool over the week.

oh and btw did anyone hear andy gray saying Everet (sp?) the head of the ref's said Bennett should have come on the pitch in the chelsea game, he was the 4th official, and sent off Cole! surely the 4th official doesnt have that power?

The possibility of his ban being extended is in relation to not leaving the pitch in a prompt manner and it being necessary for Benitez to calm him down and have other members of the coaching staff escort him away and down the tunnel. There is precendence for the FA to extend a ban because of this.

PHB

I'd imagine his ban will be extended because he took so long to leave.

Mascherano was not sent off for that one incident. He was sent off because this was the 3rd or 4th time that he had complained to the ref since he was booked. He was constantly arguing with the decisions, and only has himself to blame.

oobydooby

Call_me_al wrote: »

at the moment Masch looks like a victim of Ashley Cole acting like a fool over the week.

I agree. Cole should have been sent off too. And Riley's weakness has again hurt Liverpool from this perspective. Although I'm disappointed Masch was sent off, I won't complain about it if this kind of thing isn't tolerated anymore. The rule wasn't changed mid season, it's just that too many weak refs take this kind of crap. Anyone who's played at any level here knows that the tough refs get the most respect and the least lip.

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What do you mean by this? A player can't be taken off, then brought back on, and then subbed again????

I mean pull him off the pitch/battlefield for a few minutes and play with 10 men while the player cools down and gets a bit of advice from the manager.

Mental Mickey

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_7310000/newsid_7310600/7310637.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2

Don't know if this has been posted already???

Mental Mickey

I mean pull him off the pitch/battlefield for a few minutes and play with 10 men while the player cools down and gets a bit of advice from the manager.[/QUOTE]

Don't think teams are allowed do that.......? And what happens if the team loses a couple of goals while the player is "cooling down"?? Doesn't make sense...?

Mental Mickey

PHB wrote: »

I'd imagine his ban will be extended because he took so long to leave.

Mascherano was not sent off for that one incident. He was sent off because this was the 3rd or 4th time that he had complained to the ref since he was booked. He was constantly arguing with the decisions, and only has himself to blame.

Exactly. He was constantly in the referees ear from the first whistle, he has nobody to blame but himself. And I think Benitez looks silly trying to defend him.....?

Cyrus

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Benitez hasn't got the guile to bring the league to Anfield. Winning trophies is all that matters. It's not like Rafa's family will go hungry if he gets the sack.

I don't like the way he has Liverpool playing either. At least Wenger aspires to good football. Too many on here talking about him slowly putting a squad together. He has had plenty of time in fairness. Benitez bringing the league to Anfield is a fairytale.

more nonsense, i suppose ferguson didnt have the guile to bring it to united either in his first four years, and benitez has managed to finish ahead of the genius that is wenger in the league aswell.

he also has had the guile to win and get to the final of a second european cup.

he deserves more time, replacing him will put us back where we were before he took over, do people not get that:(

Cyrus

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Exactly. He was constantly in the referees ear from the first whistle, he has nobody to blame but himself. And I think Benitez looks silly trying to defend him.....?

managers protect their players publicly, you dont think benitez is going to do any different than fergie or 'i didnt see the incident' wenger

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

more nonsense, i suppose ferguson didnt have the guile to bring it to united either in his first four years, and benitez has managed to finish ahead of the genius that is wenger in the league aswell.

he also has had the guile to win and get to the final of a second european cup.

he deserves more time, replacing him will put us back where we were before he took over, do people not get that:(

I too don't think he has the guile to bring the league title to Anfield. He seems to have no problem whatsoever managing in European games, but in the league, he just doesn't seem to have the abilities? I think it'll be a few years yet before the league title is at Anfield....? Gerard Houllier was the last Liverpool manager to mount a serious challenge in the Premiership. We finished 2nd the year Arsenal won it.........remember???

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

managers protect their players publicly, you dont think benitez is going to do any different than fergie or 'i didnt see the incident' wenger

True.

Cyrus

was that not second on goal difference, 2/3/4 place all had same points?

benitez has the record premiershiip league points tally of 82 for liverpool

Mental Mickey

Cyrus wrote: »

was that not second on goal difference, 2/3/4 place all had same points?

benitez has the record premiershiip league points tally of 82 for liverpool

Cant remember exactly? But Houllier guided the team to their best Premiership finish in that year. Benitez may have the points record, but he hasn't even come close to bringing the title to Anfield, and I don't think he ever will......?

oobydooby

For the record I have every faith in Benitez winning the English league but this has been done to death. We are not as good as the other English teams and haven't been for a long time. Our successes in the past 15 years have been us largely overachieving. That Benitez can compete and has competed for four years with the best in Europe in one-off games shows he has the nous to get the best out of a squad. Before him we were a UEFA cup team with a CL pedigree.

I don't buy this genius in Europe/ crap in EPL to be honest. The flip side us Pool fans sometimes point out is MU's relative underachievement in Europe (in jest to mates, or as trolls on message boards:o). IMHO Ferguson has been unlucky in Europe this past decade or so and his team have underachieved. Yes his teams are better suited to EPL style football but does that make Ferguson tactically naive - not a chance! Remember he also guided MU and Aberdeen(!) to European success when they were not necessarily the best teams in their domestic leagues. A top manager is a top manager and I think Benitez has what it takes to be in Ferguson's bracket. Remember too that Ferguson will rank up there with Busby when he retires and that Wenger is also a legend in the making for Arsenal. With Abramovich behind Chelsea too, Benitez is doing very well in an extremely competitive environment, and he will only get more successful IMO.

Chardee MacDennis

PHB wrote: »

Mascherano was not sent off for that one incident. He was sent off because this was the 3rd or 4th time that he had complained to the ref since he was booked. He was constantly arguing with the decisions, and only has himself to blame.

i completely agree but there is no precedent for it, in fact the precedent seemed to be say whatever the hell you want to a ref and nothing happens, if you watch Clattenberg, he just laughs in players faces when they start abusing him and then when they've stopped he tells them to calm down or there will be trouble.

I would be surprised if Masch was told next time you say a word your off as i dont think any player would run 10/15 yards t have a chat with the ref if he felt he would be sent off.

the worst thing is i know next week or two Bennett will find himself in the same position and I am not sure if he will treat it the same again. As long as the rules remain consistent I wouldnt be complaining.

Chardee MacDennis

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Cant remember exactly? But Houllier guided the team to their best Premiership finish in that year. Benitez may have the points record, but he hasn't even come close to bringing the title to Anfield, and I don't think he ever will......?

Rafa has got us our highest premier league total ever, so obviously we have progressed a bit. also Houllier had an average of around 1.4 points per game and Rafa has 1.8 since he took over so obviously this is a big difference. Also both Rafa and houllier have brought us to 2nd, although i dont think Houlliers total would have ever won us a league but Rafa's (82 iirc) would have won it like 5 out of the last 18 years or something.

i wrote a long post about this a while ago, if you dont believe me you can look through the thread and find the figures.

PHB

I think in terms of Rafa Europe vs. the league, the issue is what it says in my sig. You can't win the premiership on penalties, because you can't win the premiership by being defensive. Away goals don't work in the league, nor does drawing and winning on penalties. As such, you can't beat better teams than you in that sort of way, and it comes down more to how good your players are.

I think everybody knows what Liverpool need player wise, with similar or slightly different viewpoints.

I think they need
A new LB/CB[for cover, somebody like Heinze or Silvestre]
A new LW
A new RW
A new striker

I think one of those wingers could be a young player with potential. I think the striker should be somebody who works well in a long ball system. I think they have to buy an utterly top class striker, no doubt about it.

oobydooby

PHB wrote: »

I think in terms of Rafa Europe vs. the league, the issue is what it says in my sig. You can't win the premiership on penalties, because you can't win the premiership by being defensive. Away goals don't work in the league, nor does drawing and winning on penalties. As such, you can't beat better teams than you in that sort of way, and it comes down more to how good your players are.

I'm usually on a mac so I can't see sigs:) If I had the heart I'd argue one or two of those points with you but if it boils down to how good our players are (as it will eventually) then that's the reason why Liverpool are fourth. But by the same rationale we should be well clear of Everton!

If instead of 'defensive' you said 'smart' or 'tactically' then I guess I'd agree. We've all been beaten up by smaller guys who know how to fight (or at least we've seen a small guy take a bigger guy).

I doubt anyone but Rafa (or perhaps one of the top top managers) would have achieved what Liverpool have these past four years in europe with those players. Boxing clever or not...

Melion

Jesus christ, why does this come up everytime we lose a game? We dont need any other fans coming in here telling us how poor Benitez is, how we'll never win the league with him in charge, how poor our players are. Sure we know all this already, dont think you're the first to mention it. We've all discussed it 100's of times before, Liverpool fans know what we need so again, dont need other teams fans coming in here repeatedly telling us (Silvestre ).

Oh and Masch deserved to go, dont think anyone can argue that point.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

I think in terms of Rafa Europe vs. the league, the issue is what it says in my sig. You can't win the premiership on penalties, because you can't win the premiership by being defensive. Away goals don't work in the league, nor does drawing and winning on penalties. As such, you can't beat better teams than you in that sort of way, and it comes down more to how good your players are.

I think everybody knows what Liverpool need player wise, with similar or slightly different viewpoints.

I think they need
A new LB/CB[for cover, somebody like Heinze or Silvestre]
A new LW
A new RW
A new striker

I think one of those wingers could be a young player with potential. I think the striker should be somebody who works well in a long ball system. I think they have to buy an utterly top class striker, no doubt about it.

In the summer i would prioritise one top class striker and one top class winger above any other signings. After that i would, with whatever money is left, to buy a right back/left back and a central midfielder (another is badly needed if we continue to play 3 in the middle)

And none of them should have to fit into a long ball system, because Liverpool don't deploy a long ball system.

gucci

HashSlinging wrote: »

Since when have the media and fans crucified a manager for being proactive, and making the right decision, he got a yellow and a warning, how many red lights does benitez need!! another big game next weekend no Masch for that whole game not good enough from benitez.

At least Rafa does not have to worry about Mascherano playing his 6 games in 16 days with the international match against Egypt he was freaking out about last week :rolleyes:

Yesterday was super disappointing grand slam on top of my hangover.

Too many of our players packed it in with about 30mins left. Alonso? I'd like to say it was just a once off, but he looked way off it yesterday. Crouch must be on his way out of the club in the summer, why else would he not have came on for Torres instead of J A Riise? Dont think defending a 3-0 lead was tactical substitution on Rafas part.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

I think in terms of Rafa Europe vs. the league, the issue is what it says in my sig. You can't win the premiership on penalties, because you can't win the premiership by being defensive. Away goals don't work in the league, nor does drawing and winning on penalties. As such, you can't beat better teams than you in that sort of way, and it comes down more to how good your players are..

You argument would have been impossible to argue with last season but this season there has been a big move away from that. That is reflected in the amount of goals we have scored and conceeded.

PHB wrote: »

I think everybody knows what Liverpool need player wise, with similar or slightly different viewpoints.

I think they need
A new LB/CB[for cover, somebody like Heinze or Silvestre]
A new LW
A new RW
A new striker.

Ironically, he spent 6 months trying to sign one of them.

With a full quota of players - Carra, Agger, Skrtel, Hypia, Finnan, Arbeloa, Riise and Aurelio - is more than sufficient.. Replace Riise with someone and there is little to complain about imo.

The other 3 cannot really disputed when playing 4 - 4 - 2. Playing 4 - 3 - 3, we would only need to add a right winger as I am confident that Babel is will be ready for first team football next season. Bentley for 12 million has been

There is no doubting that Kewell will go and be replaced by someone. Leto seems to be completely out of favour also. Expect some changes here anyway.

I also expect Voronin to be gone and would hope Kuyt follows him. Expect at least 1 quality player to come in at least.

PHB wrote: »

I think one of those wingers could be a young player with potential. I think the striker should be somebody who works well in a long ball system. I think they have to buy an utterly top class striker, no doubt about it.

Agree with all these points.

Zapp Brannigan

Gotta hope for a resurgent performance next sunday against the Evertonians. I'll be at the match so I'll be wanting us to really hammer them!

astrofool

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Ironically, he spent 6 months trying to sign one of them.

In this case, it was always clear that the move would not happen, and he should have moved on much sooner and got someone else.

jesus_thats_gre

astrofool wrote: »

In this case, it was always clear that the move would not happen, and he should have moved on much sooner and got someone else.

How do you know that he didn't? He signed Skrtel in the next window..

astrofool

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

How do you know that he didn't? He signed Skrtel in the next window..

You're defending the undefendable in a few threads here, ANYWAY.....

Fat Spanish Waiter with a smidge wrote:

The situation is very clear and I'm confident in the outcome. I'm not looking for any other left-back.

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/08/10/sfnliv110.xml

jesus_thats_gre

astrofool wrote: »

You're defending the undefendable in a few threads here, ANYWAY.....

Like what?

astrofool wrote: »

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/08/10/sfnliv110.xml

What does this represent - conclusive proof that Rafa had no other targets other than Heinze?

Dont be at yourself

Why do people think we need a winger? Our best system is the current 4-2-3-1, with a narrowish three off Torres. Gerrard can fulfill the centre of that 3, Babel can fill the left-hand side, so we just need one more, an 'inside-right'. Kuyt's there at the moment, but he's not cutting the mustard. Bennayoun is probably a better fit, and I don't think it would suit Pennant at all. With the left-foot on David Silva, I'd love to see him there.

We could have the best wingers in the world skinning full-backs and firing in crosses, but it won't play to the strengths of our team, and it will mean choosing two from Macherano/Gerrard/Lucas/Alonso.

ShiverinEskimo

I can't see how having to choose between 4 centre midfielders is ever going to be a problem.

United have to choose from Anderson/Scholes/Carrick/Hargreaves. All excellent players. All fighting for the middle of the park and it has given United an excellent advantage at this time of the season when legs are getting weary.

The more the merrier.

Chardee MacDennis

normal service resumes:

Dubai International Capital is set complete a £400m takeover of Liverpool in the next three weeks, according to a source close to the proposed deal. (The Independent)

ibh

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Why do people think we need a winger? Our best system is the current 4-2-3-1, with a narrowish three off Torres. Gerrard can fulfill the centre of that 3, Babel can fill the left-hand side, so we just need one more, an 'inside-right'. Kuyt's there at the moment, but he's not cutting the mustard. Bennayoun is probably a better fit, and I don't think it would suit Pennant at all. With the left-foot on David Silva, I'd love to see him there.

We could have the best wingers in the world skinning full-backs and firing in crosses, but it won't play to the strengths of our team, and it will mean choosing two from Macherano/Gerrard/Lucas/Alonso.

I agree that it's not an out an out winger that we need instead of Kuyt but if we had a winger playing in that position they could easily revert to a 4 man midfield.
The type of player that i think would suit that position is Nedved or Ljungberg (obviously not now, but when they were in their prime..).

I wouldn't be calling for the signing of Bentley. I don't like him, i know he's pretty good but i just think he ain't top class and whats the point in signing someone like him if you can get a real talent for a few quid extra.

I like the idea of Villa. I used to watch a lot of spanish league and he is pure class.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso was heading back to Spain in the summer. If he is we should try to use him as part of a swap deal as he is still very highly rated in Spain. A friend of mine from Madrid reckons they would still jump at the chance of signing him..