Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

prendy

Call_me_al wrote: »

normal service resumes:

Dubai International Capital is set complete a £400m takeover of Liverpool in the next three weeks, according to a source close to the proposed deal. (The Independent)

ah al nearly 10 pages without it!

spockety

prendy wrote: »

ah al nearly 10 pages without it!

Aye, would have thought there's been a media blackout in the last couple of weeks while the deal is being done..

Dont be at yourself

I can't see how having to choose between 4 centre midfielders is ever going to be a problem.

Moving to a 4-4-2 requires the dropping of two very high-quality players, in order to accommodate two wingers. As we dont have any out-and-out wingers in our squad that would work in such a system, it seems a much better strategy to buy in one top class player for the 4-2-3-1 system.

Mr Alan

-Maschs sending off was a joke.
-Granted he should not have gone to the ref cause everyone knows that Bennett is a joke and had a point to prove after getting a telling off over the Cole incident.
-The FA and media will make Masch a scape-goat for all this "respect campaign" they have started. Suits them better to make a mental little argie the scapegoat as opposed to Gerrard,Rooney,Terry,Cole etc.
-Liverpool need to grow a pair of balls in the PL, they took that defeat like a bunch of ****in arse-bandits tbh. Riise even swapped shirts with Rooney at the end and hugged him after the full time whistle. ****ing embarrasment. the fans hurt so much after a defeat like that, yet the players dont seem ****ing arsed. thats why its hard to be pissed off at masch, if all our players had the drive and passion he had, we'd be a different team.
-Where were you Steven? Where were you when Torres was having the ****ing ****e knocked out of him? Where were you when a 23 year old Argie at the club just over a year was the only person who would stick up for him and confront the ref about how shote he was performing?
-The Liverpool fans were excellent and the Torres tune (complete wit bouncing) sounded animal.
-My views on the Utd fans, i cant put here.
-ferguson-how much of a ****ing hypocrite are you? protection for Ronaldo? Yea, i'm sure your ****ing excellent centre halves, and anyone who got near him were not under order not to kick the ****e out of him. i dont mind it, its a mans game, but stop your ****ing crying when anyone dares go near your beloved little Ronaldo.

anyway, ****e weekend.

redspider

A poor performance by Liverpool and a poor result. Liverpool played okay for most of the first half, although there were signs. Should Carra have been sent off for that early slow challenge on Rooney? Perhaps a let-off. It showed that Carra's turn of pace is weakening.

Mascherano deserved his 1st yellow I thought. He was putting in good tackles, and Liverpool seemed to be containing Man Utd's threat by and large. Then came the first goal. Skrtel left the ball for Reina, rightly I presume given that Reina called for it and came, but Reina once again failed to deal wit ha cross. I have said it time and time again over the seasons as have many of you hear no doubt and the media 'experts'. He just doesnt seem to jump right, adjust his jump to be more elevated rather than a diving jump. It is a severe weakeness in his game which hampers us time and time again, in dead ball situations, corners and crosses in general.

Kudos have to be given to Wes Brown though for staying up and coming in to challenge for the header and getting it in off his shoulder. All of the Man Utd team were surprised that it was a goal. I thought I heard a whistle blown but there wasnt. And it was typical of recent Man Utd Liverpool games, with the likes of O'Shea and Ferdinand adding to the list of unlikely scorers and a 'tradition' stretching back to Pallister and before that with Greenhof's chest in 1977.

Next came the sending off. Masch just didnt shut up all afternoon. He deserved to go in my book and 10 mins before that we were discussing it that if Masch doesnt shut up he may find himself sent off. And so it came to pass. Ironically, it was a free for Liverpool and Torres got booked for back-chat to the ref.

It wasnt a good match for the spanish speakers - the portuguese speakers had a much better day.

With 10-men, it was a tough task, I thought Liverpool did okay. There were a few chances for us at 1-0 down. But when C.Ronadlo got the second headed goal, and once again from a Reina mistake, it was over. Nani's goal was well despatched as he wrong-footed Skrtel.

Liverpool need to learn from this mistake. Masch clearly for his discipline. As a good player who needs to tackle a lot, he needs to let that do his talking. I'm sure he will be 'debriefed' this week. Stevie Gerrard in previous years would have been a player getting into trouble, and it shows how he has matured. How to fix the Reina problem with crosses though, I dont know. He is good at other aspects, not perfect, clearly good at penalties.

Liverpool should now take the lessons from this match, lick their wounds and come back refreshed. For once, the international friendlies might serve as some respite for the players, mentally if nothing else before the head into a very daunting set of matches. I expect the match with Everton will be a close one, and a draw at least for Liverpool. They have the mental capacity to beat them, and the players too.

Some small good news was that Chelsea beat Arsenal, and hence it is a good time to play Arsenal both in the CL and the league. Liverpool, if they draw against Everton, will be able to optimisse for the CL games, and Arsenal may be doing likewise, so it will be interesting to see how the teams are set-up etc.

Liverpool's season is not over yet .....

Redspider

Mr Alan

redspider wrote: »

Stevie Gerrard in previous years would have been a player getting into trouble, and it shows how he has matured

Matured?thats one way to look at it.

another is that he is afraid to upset his England mates?

Personally i'd prefer to see him challenge the ref when he not protecting Torres being constantly fouled, and would prefer he got in the face of our rivals.

show some backbone Stevie lad!

BaZmO*

redspider wrote: »

Stevie Gerrard in previous years would have been a player getting into trouble,

Not in a Utd. game he wouldn't. Gerrard always goes missing in the games against Utd.

Mitch Connor

BaZmO* wrote: »

Not in a Utd. game he wouldn't. Gerrard always goes missing in the games against Utd.

Not *ALWAYS*, unfortunately.

Anyway, I find the 'goes missing' stuff really annoying. Most BIG players go missing against BIG teams because people expect the same dominating performance they put in against lesser sides. Simply fact is the better the opposition you come up against, the harder it will be for you - less time on the ball and less space. Gerrard, Ronaldo, Henry, Lampard, happens to them all. The only players this doesn't really happen with are defenders and out-and-out goal paoching strikers, cause their game is not dependent on being everywhere and doing everything.

Midfielders and withdrawn creative attackers will always have quiet games unless the other players in their midfield dominate the opposition and the opposition doesn't play a tactically specific game against that 'star man'

redspider

I didnt see Torres being kicked all over the place or getting excessively bad treatment. I meant to include in my post that I thought that Torres, unlike the encounter at Anfield from earlier in the season, stood up very well against Vidic and Ferdinand and got past them a couple of times. Liverpool were very close to scoring and close to creating good chances with a final better touch. Gerrard with a better pass at one stage could have set someone up. Torres if sharper could have toe-poked in that half chance from about 4 yards out, etc.

But overall, we got off with just as many chances, more so in fact, than we created, and I think that even with all 11 players on the pitch, Man Utd would still have won the game, although perhaps tighter at 1-0. It certainly would have felt a better result, but its still the same with 0 points - moral victories can help mentally though, or at least 'close defeats'. That's why this week is an important mental week for the Liverpool players and staff. Understand, learn, move on .....

Redspider

Killme00

Benitez got his tactics all wrong and the sending off gives him the perfect excuse to cover up for his shortcomings in the match.

Alonso and Gerard were very very poor.

Mitch Connor

redspider wrote: »

That's why this week is an important mental week for the Liverpool players and staff. Understand, learn, move on .....

Redspider

Bad time for an international break if that is the case, I assume most Liverpool players will be away til thursday/friday?

Mr Alan

Rafa getting a tactics lesson from "killme00".

comical

Killme00

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa getting a tactics lesson from "killme00".

comical

When will your love affair with Benitez end. He got it all wrong against Utd. How many PL point has he picked up against Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal since his arrival??????

emc2

redspider wrote: »

But when C.Ronadlo got the second headed goal, and once again from a Reina mistake, it was over.

I think the bigger mistake was having Alonso marking Ronaldo (clearly one of the best player in the air for utd.) I would have had one on the centre backs step up to mark him.

p.s I am not trying to start the stupid zone marking v man marking debate again. I am a zone marking fan.

redspider

Mr Alan wrote: »

Matured?thats one way to look at it.
another is that he is afraid to upset his England mates?
Personally i'd prefer to see him challenge the ref when he not protecting Torres being constantly fouled

Gerrard when playing in the advanced role is tasked with less tackling than Masch and Alonso in the 4-2-3-1 formation that was played. Gerrard didnt have to 'put himself about', so yes, I do think that when he was tasked to play alongside Alonso after Masch got sent-off it was a sign of maturity not to even get a yellow. I think many of us would have given into the temptation at 2-0 or 3-0 down to kick a player or two in frustation. Gerrard didnt and I think we should recognise that as a good trait in a player.

Liverpool committed 12 fouls in the match, Man Utd 12 as well, so it wasnt a dirty game. I thought Ferdinand was unlucky to get a yellow for kicking the ball away, but the Ref was perhaps semi 'compensating'. Torres was fouled on about 3 times in the match, 3 that were given at any rate, which is far from excessive. I know Rafa complained about it after, but without seeing cams on all the players and comparing, its hard to be definitive. From what I saw, he didnt seem to get harsh treatment or decisions.

Redspider

mike65

Your use of the smilie is less than well timed Killme00

Mike.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Said it before, say it again: Benitez can't win the premiership. He can be replied upon for a good CL run and 4th, but at the end of the day, I don't see much of an improvement on that and yestedfay was further evidence.

redspider

Tauren wrote: »

Bad time for an international break if that is the case, I assume most Liverpool players will be away til thursday/friday?

A change is as good as a rest, as they say, and I'm sure in the evenings, Gerrard, and the other players will be getting phone-calls from staff and other players, as well as family.

ciaran76

Slightly off topic but does anyone have any stats on how many goals Liverpool have let in this season that have been headers ?

Maybe I am wrong here but I seem to think that Liverpool conceed a high % of headers. I might be totally wrong but maybe one of you statto's out there may have the info

zing

Torres sat out this mornings training session with Spain and is a doubt for the game on Wed. I really hope they don't take any chances with him as it's just a friendly

mike65

Liverpool have conceeded 24 goals I cannot recall headers being a significant %.

9 inside 6 yard area, 11 peno area, 5 outside box.

Mike.

Mr Alan

goals from set pieces would make up a huge percentage i'd imagine though.

redspider

emc2 wrote: »

I think the bigger mistake was having Alonso marking Ronaldo (clearly one of the best player in the air for utd.) I would have had one on the centre backs step up to mark him.

Alonso isnt great in the 'battle' situation in the box and lost a step on Ronaldo, so I do agree that he should have done better and put in a challenge, although with zonal was it really his or in Reina's area?

I think that it was at least 80% Reina's fault as that area of the 6 yard box from a corner should be his, AND he went for it. He shouldnt have gone for it if he didnt think it was in his area and if he didnt think he would get to it, so for me, yet another poor crossing judgement decision by Reina.

We cant be going to Man Utd or other teams and giving away two soft goals with goalie errors. Thankfully Reina doesnt do such faux-pas in every match, But we remember Everton from last season and there is always one or two happening every now and again.

Even without the mistakes we would have lost anyway .....

Redspider

Killme00

mike65 wrote: »

Your use of the smilie is less than well timed Killme00

Mike.

Apologies my intention is not to rile anyone , there are enough muppets on here to do that. As a Utd fan i am obviously delighted witht he victory but i am also amazed at how poorly Liverpool approach these games. I think the sending off disguises the fact that Mr Benitez got his tactics all wrong. Bringing on Beyanoun for Babel when Kuyt was having a mare was awful as was bringing on Riise at any time (he has lost so much pace). In my opinion he should have brought on Crouch at half time and attacked Utd, at least then he could say post match that he changed things at half time and went for it.

Tom

ciaran76

mike65 wrote: »

Liverpool have conceeded 24 goals I cannot recall headers being a significant %.

9 inside 6 yard area, 11 peno area, 5 outside box.

Mike.

Thanks Mike.

mike65

Someone will have the stats or will trawl youtube

heh found a stat from Talksport on Feb 26th I've added yesterdays goal

Liverpool have conceded fewer headed goals (2) than any other side

65% of the goals Liverpool have conceded have come from set plays – the highest proportion in the top division

edit edit - now its two it may not be the lowest. Derby had conceeded 12 up to that date.

Mike.

Spud83

Killme00 wrote: »

Apologies my intention is not to rile anyone , there are enough muppets on here to do that. As a Utd fan i am obviously delighted witht he victory but i am also amazed at how poorly Liverpool approach these games. I think the sending off disguises the fact that Mr Benitez got his tactics all wrong. Bringing on Beyanoun for Babel when Kuyt was having a mare was awful as was bringing on Riise at any time (he has lost so much pace). In my opinion he should have brought on Crouch at half time and attacked Utd, at least then he could say post match that he changed things at half time and went for it.

Tom

In fairness to Benitez Utd created enough chances when Liverpool were playing 4-4-1 in the second half. If Crouch had been brought on then that would have opened up more space in the middle of the park where Utd already had an extra man.

Regarding the Riise sub it was to protect Torres from either injury or picking up a second yellow, they were already 3-0 down at that stage. Right decision.

Babel and Kuyt were both ineffective, Babel only got past Brown once and even then Anderson covered it easily. Kuyt was kept on as he was helping out the defence more and working harder than Babel. Babel and Beyanoun on the pitch with only ten men would have been asking for trouble.

In a game like that when you go ten men down and are already a goal down it is very hard to do anything. You have to try negate the extra space caused by losing the man, and just hope to nick the goal back. Going gung ho would not have worked IMO. Whatever about his tactics starting the game (he done nothing different to the last 5 games when Liverpool have been in the best form all year), it’s hard to criticise anything that happened in the second half. Remember he hardly had to time to react between the second and third goals.

spockety

A brief note to all bashers who have come from far and wide this morning, there are a few things that have been discussed to death on this thread. I will go over them again for you here, please check this list before you post, as there may be no need for you to point out things that we already know:

1) Benitez is no good. He will never win the Premier League for Liverpool. He hasn't got what it takes. He is tactically naive in England but obviously great in Europe.

2) Zonal marking is rubbish, Liverpool concede goals as a direct result of choosing to mark zonally as opposed to man marking.

3) Reina is not as good a keeper as Cech or Van De Sar.

4) Steven Gerrard is not as good as the hype makes out, and goes missing in 'big games'

5) Torres was in Ferdinand's pocket.

6) "How many points have Liverpool taken off Utd., Arsenal, and Chelsea since Benitez arrived?".

7) Benitez has spent 3.5 billion pounds since he arrived at Liverpool, or something in that region.

8) Benitez has taken 4 years and built nothing but a rubbish squad having spent 3.5 billion pounds (or something in that region).

9) Liverpool are a great cup team, but rubbish in the league.

10) Rotation has cost Liverpool a league challenge this season.

11) "Why do you all want DIC to buy your club, they could be worse than Hicks and Gillett?"


Feel free to add to this list, but if your point is already in one of those above, then thanks for taking the time to come and contribute to our thread, but we already know all about each of those points/facts. Cheers.

Killme00

spockety wrote: »

A brief note to all bashers who have come from far and wide this morning, there are a few things that have been discussed to death on this thread. I will go over them again for you here, please check this list before you post, as there may be no need for you to point out things that we already know:

1) Benitez is no good. He will never win the Premier League for Liverpool. He hasn't got what it takes. He is tactically naive in England but obviously great in Europe.

2) Zonal marking is rubbish, Liverpool concede goals as a direct result of choosing to mark zonally as opposed to man marking.

3) Reina is not as good a keeper as Cech or Van De Sar.

4) Steven Gerrard is not as good as the hype makes out, and goes missing in 'big games'

5) Torres was in Ferdinand's pocket.

6) "How many points have Liverpool taken off Utd., Arsenal, and Chelsea since Benitez arrived?".

7) Benitez has spent 3.5 billion pounds since he arrived at Liverpool, or something in that region.

8) Benitez has taken 4 years and built nothing but a rubbish squad having spent 3.5 billion pounds (or something in that region).

9) Liverpool are a great cup team, but rubbish in the league.

10) Rotation has cost Liverpool a league challenge this season.

11) "Why do you all want DIC to buy your club, they could be worse than Hicks and Gillett?"


Feel free to add to this list, but if your point is already in one of those above, then thanks for taking the time to come and contribute to our thread, but we already know all about each of those points/facts. Cheers.

12). Need some quality on the wings

_blank_

13. Torres is a roide.

spockety

Killme00 wrote: »

12). Need some quality on the wings

Thanks for that. Is that ridiculous gloating grin part of your sig, or do you reserve it for posts on this thread?

ibh

spockety wrote: »

A brief note to all bashers who have come from far and wide this morning, there are a few things that have been discussed to death on this thread. I will go over them again for you here, please check this list before you post, as there may be no need for you to point out things that we already know:

1) Benitez is no good. He will never win the Premier League for Liverpool. He hasn't got what it takes. He is tactically naive in England but obviously great in Europe.

2) Zonal marking is rubbish, Liverpool concede goals as a direct result of choosing to mark zonally as opposed to man marking.

3) Reina is not as good a keeper as Cech or Van De Sar.

4) Steven Gerrard is not as good as the hype makes out, and goes missing in 'big games'

5) Torres was in Ferdinand's pocket.

6) "How many points have Liverpool taken off Utd., Arsenal, and Chelsea since Benitez arrived?".

7) Benitez has spent 3.5 billion pounds since he arrived at Liverpool, or something in that region.

8) Benitez has taken 4 years and built nothing but a rubbish squad having spent 3.5 billion pounds (or something in that region).

9) Liverpool are a great cup team, but rubbish in the league.

10) Rotation has cost Liverpool a league challenge this season.

11) "Why do you all want DIC to buy your club, they could be worse than Hicks and Gillett?"


Feel free to add to this list, but if your point is already in one of those above, then thanks for taking the time to come and contribute to our thread, but we already know all about each of those points/facts. Cheers.

14). Anderson is better than Mascherano.

Killme00

spockety wrote: »

Thanks for that. Is that ridiculous gloating grin part of your sig, or do you reserve it for posts on this thread?

Relax!

15). Only 2 Liverpool players would get into the Utd tem even though there are seven better players in the Liverpool team!!

:eek:

ibh

16). Take Gerrard and Torres out of the Pool team and we would be in 13th. Put them two into the Newcastle team (currently 13th) and they would be fourth. Fact

mike65

So what? They are in the team. Same argument for Utd with Ronaldo

Mike.

Cyrus

ibh wrote: »

16). Take Gerrard and Torres out of the Pool team and we would be in 13th. Put them two into the Newcastle team (currently 13th) and they would be fourth. Fact

thats the stupidest comment yet

do that with any club, take rooney and ronaldo from united and lampard and drogba form chelsea and adebayor and fabregas from arsenal :rolleyes:

zing

He didn't use exclamation marks after 'Fact' so he must be talking crap We all know you need to use a load of them anytime you use Fact like that

ibh

Cyrus wrote: »

thats the stupidest comment yet

do that with any club, take rooney and ronaldo from united and lampard and drogba form chelsea and adebayor and fabregas from arsenal :rolleyes:

Do you actually think that I would write that being serious.. Some people need a reality check before posting.

Next time i'll put at least 10 exclamation marks so you know its sarcasm...

Nalz

mike65 wrote: »

So what? They are in the team. Same argument for Utd with Ronaldo

Mike.

eh no

ibh

mike65 wrote: »

So what? They are in the team. Same argument for Utd with Ronaldo

Mike.

Again, see above post.

I also previously posted "14). Anderson is better than Mascherano". This was posted with tounge firmly in cheek.

Might have to start using these ridiculous smileys after all.

mike65

ibh if you had posted FACT! then we would have got the joke. Stupid smilie :pac:

Mike.

ibh

mike65 wrote: »

ibh if you had posted FACT! then we would have got the joke. Stupid smilie :pac:

Mike.

tbh i didn't think it was necessary. I thought nobody could be so deluded as to think like that... Then i remembered that Eamon Dunphy is still getting airtime.

In future i'll work my keyboard a bit more.

PHB

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Why do people think we need a winger? Our best system is the current 4-2-3-1, with a narrowish three off Torres. Gerrard can fulfill the centre of that 3, Babel can fill the left-hand side, so we just need one more, an 'inside-right'. Kuyt's there at the moment, but he's not cutting the mustard. Bennayoun is probably a better fit, and I don't think it would suit Pennant at all. With the left-foot on David Silva, I'd love to see him there.

We could have the best wingers in the world skinning full-backs and firing in crosses, but it won't play to the strengths of our team, and it will mean choosing two from Macherano/Gerrard/Lucas/Alonso.

I think you're right about this to an extent.
I don't mean you need a right sided midfielder, you need an attacking winger. You need width. Liverpool are too narrow and don't strech teams enough. Babel isn't even naturally wide.
In terms of a striker, I think Torres could easily play as a wing forward, he's got the pace etc., if you got a big target man to take the balls down. Drogba worked for Chelsea, I'd say Berbatov would be unreal for Liverpool. I don't think United are willing to pay that sorta money, but I think Liverpool should consider it.

citytillidie

Trilla wrote: »

eh no

eh Yes

Its been proven with out Ronaldo's and Tevez's goals United would be 19 points worse off now that was before the Derby County and Bolton games so take that up to 23 points worse off.

_blank_

citytillidie wrote: »

eh Yes

Its been proven with out Ronaldo's and Tevez's goals United would be 19 points worse off now that was before the Derby County and Bolton games so take that up to 23 points worse off.

So bleedin' what?

Take the attacking minded players out of ANY side in the damn world and they'd all be worse off.

Stupid, stupid argument.

Cyrus

DesF wrote: »

So bleedin' what?

Take the attacking minded players out of ANY side in the damn world and they'd all be worse off.

Stupid, stupid argument.

yeah it is, thats why the idiots spouting it about gerrard and torres i.e. dunphy and whoever did this piece of 'research' should STFU

Nalz

citytillidie wrote: »

eh Yes

Its been proven with out Ronaldo's and Tevez's goals United would be 19 points worse off now that was before the Derby County and Bolton games so take that up to 23 points worse off.

well then its eh no...because I was quoting Mike who did not mention Tevez. And if anyone thinks that a United team without Ronaldo and Tevez is on a par with Liverpool team without Torres and Gerrard must be smoking something.

Rooney vs eh Crouch ?
Nani vs eh Pennant ?
Vidic vs eh Skertil ?
Giggs vs eh Kuyt ?
Scholes\Hargreaves\Carrick vs out of form Alonso ?
Rio vs Carragher?

no contest.

lpool2k05

Why dont Utd fans stick to the Utd thread unless they have something constructive to say??Utd won 3-0 and are currently better than liverpool...we get it!!but some of the things people are posting you would think liverpool are in the bottom half!!

Nalz

lpool2k05 wrote: »

Why dont Utd fans stick to the Utd thread unless they have something constructive to say??Utd won 3-0 and are currently better than liverpool...we get it!!but some of the things people are posting you would think liverpool are in the bottom half!!

So United fans in United thread and Pool in Pools is that it? As far as I can see people are being civil enough and making a point...and if some people cant take it, lose there cool or start the sulk then thats their prob. A point was made about United in the Pool thread, i disagreed. Am I and others not allowed respond to this? The comment "you would think liverpool are in the bottom half" is just silly. Everyone knows their one of the top 4 in England
despite where the finish.

most United fans are being constructive here...and if I've stepped on anyones toes, they need to put on a stronger pair of shoes

Mr Alan

trilla, to be honest post #14348 has been talked about a billion times in this thread, thats why people have little desire to hear the same ****e being rehashed again and again and again and again.