Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Bacchus

Here's Voronin!! 3 pts in the bag I'd say :rolleyes:

Melion

Odds on Torres getting injured?

Peyton Manning

Oh my god, lol @ Voronin

Chucky the tree

jesus, even for a free transfer we got ripped off.

Chardee MacDennis

Chucky the tree wrote: »

jesus, even for a free transfer we got ripped off.

God he is terrible, Leverkusen(sp?) must be laughing....

StickyMcGinty

Call_me_al wrote: »

God he is terrible, Leverkusen(sp?) must be laughing....

jesus was it that bad a miss?? ffs

what a joke, he actually looked like a decent squad player for the first few games of the season

Chardee MacDennis

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

jesus was it that bad a miss?? ffs

what a joke, he actually looked like a decent squad player for the first few games of the season

not just one bad miss but two... :mad:

Tusky

Poor games from Pennant, Voronin & Riise.

To counter that, Carragher, Plesis, Crouch & Arbeloa were great.

Good result for us but we could have won it! What a miss from Voronin, all he had to do was keep it low.


Plessis: Opta stats 87% passing accuracy.

StickyMcGinty

Tusky wrote: »

Plessis: Opta stats 87% passing accuracy.

niiice.

thats one of our main problems at the moment, i tihnk alonso and masc only had ~75% passing accuracy last wedensday

mike65

The ESB kindly blew a local fuse so missed the last 40 mins. Slightly gutted we only drew. Was Voronin on for Crouch?

Mike.

tonc76

voronin came on for benayoun torres came on for crouch on 80 mins

dc69

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

niiice.

thats one of our main problems at the moment, i tihnk alonso and masc only had ~75% passing accuracy last wedensday

plesiss,max pass was about 40 yards.he was passing about 10 foot on average,Alonso is one of the best passers in the prem if not the best.

I agree plesiss did have a good game though.

Melion

dc69 wrote: »

plesiss,max pass was about 40 yards.he was passing about 10 foot on average,Alonso is one of the best passers in the prem if not the best.

I agree plesiss did have a good game though.

He played one pass about 50 yards straight on to Riise's chest, it was a cracking pass. He does look good though and didnt let anyone down today. He went quiet in the 2nd half though.

jesus_thats_gre

Extremely good performance for a debut! You really couldn't ask for more from a player in his position.

dc69

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Extremely good performance for a debut! You really couldn't ask for more from a player in his position.

agreed,the only thing i thought he could have done better was to actually tackle when someone was running.he seemed to run alongside and was reluctant to go for it.It was his first game though and he did well.

GBX

dc69 wrote: »

agreed,the only thing i thought he could have done better was to actually tackle when someone was running.he seemed to run alongside and was reluctant to go for it.It was his first game though and he did well.

Probably nervous on his debut to get a card. Good one for the future.

spockety

Aye, what a game to mark your debut, fair play to the lad.

He looked very composed when on the ball (couple of nice little turns and dinks to get away from chasing Arsenal players etc.), sprayed some good passes and I don't recall any head banging off table mistakes from him. He wasn't very impressive off the ball however, but it's hard to criticise given he has never played a PL match before.. but he jogged instead of running, and failed to put in tackles when he should have. He didn't get subbed, so Rafa was happy enough and I'm sure it is not the last we have seen of him, especially if we make it to the next round of the CL.

mike65

Can't see him lining out against Fernabache to be honest! :pac:

Mike.

Tusky

Our biggest stumbling block has been our defense of set pieces & crossed into the box. In recent memory.

-Bendtner header today
-Adebayor header on Wed
-Ronaldo & Wes Brown against utd

Its ridiculous.

mike65

Its true yet the number of goals conceeded this season is good, so if they can just figure out how to attack a high ball Reina will be a shoe in for the Golden Gloves (he's in the running as things stand for this season).

Mike.

Tusky

mike65 wrote: »

Its true yet the number of goals conceeded this season is good, so if they can just figure out how to attack a high ball Reina will be a shoe in for the Golden Gloves (he's in the running as things stand for this season).

Mike.

Hes not really in the running. 6 games to go.

VDS - 20
Cech - 19
James - 17
Reina - 15

[edit] actually those are the cleen sheets per team. VDS & Cech were both out for a while so thats stats may be off.

I actually think Reina has had a fairly poor second half to the season.

spockety

mike65 wrote: »

Can't see him lining out against Fernabache to be honest! :pac:

Mike.

Heh.. no I more meant for PL games if Rafa wants to save some players for CL semi's, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

PHB

Every team is vulnerable to crosses into the box, you stop them with good full backs, which Liverpool haven't really had. Finnan and Arbeloa have been out injuried, and the LB has been a problem since the start of the season.

I thought Sretkle today was very very interesting. To me, he looks like a young Rio Ferddinand. If he can improve his heading a bit, and work on dealing with more route 1, I think he'll be a great signing.

Zapp Brannigan

Delighted to see Plessis get a start, very promising. But where is Insua! Damn it I wanna see him get a chance!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Reina 16.

VDS 15.

James 14.

Cech 13 - one of thos only on the pitch for 63 mins.

Or such is the stats that I could compile.

PHB

From Fantasy football

Reina - 15
James - 14
Howard - 13
Van der Sar - 13
Cech- 13
Almunia - 11

Which is why this whole clean sheets thing is kinda funny, because Reina has concedded 24 goals in 2880 minutes (1 in every 120), compared to VDS, who has concedded 12 in 2115 (1 every 176 minutes)

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote: »

Which is why this whole clean sheets thing is kinda funny, because Reina has concedded 24 goals in 2880 minutes (1 in every 206), compared to VDS, who has concedded 12 in 2115 (1 every 176 minutes)

Well things like goals,assists etc are done on the amount so why should it be different for this?

If someone plays 3 games this season and scores a hattrck in each (goal every 30 mins) should he be given the golden boot?

machiavellianme

PHB wrote: »

Reina has concedded 24 goals in 2880 minutes (1 in every 206), compared to VDS, who has concedded 12 in 2115 (1 every 176 minutes)

You driving a Peugeot or something, cant see how else you got 206 there? 2880/24 =120 mins per goal

unless you used 2*60 and permutated the numbers?

PHB

Yeh, don't know what happened there My trust in windows calculator has been shaken.

Well things like goals,assists etc are done on the amount so why should it be different for this?

Well no actually, they aren't. If they were done in this way, it would be done in how many games a player scores in.

I was just using the numbres to point out how silly it was, VDS has concedded so few goals this season its just amazing.

Brando_ie

Is there any possible way Liverpool can avoid conceding a penalty on Tuesday!!!....

I have a terrible feeling that some lad will fall over in the center circle and the ref will point to the spot!!!

Its squeaky bum time until the final whistle now for me..... damn Karma.... damn it to hell

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

just add it to the list, zonal marking, reina, rotation etc.

Hell, Andy Gray just took the opportunity to make the original point that 'for a such a big man' Crouch is rubbish at headers. Never heard that one before. :rolleyes:

It's very easy to pass it off and say that every just goes on about zonal markign like it's some new buzz word but the goal today showed exactgly where zonal markign causes problems.

When the ball comes in Bendtner is beside Carra with another player (I wasnt minding who it was) beside crouch. Everyone moves forward as the ball comes in. Bendtner moves out of Carras "zone" so he has to leave him. Crouch is movign towards roughly where the ball is going but Bendtner comes in around him. The result is nobody marking Bendtner.. The same thing happen in the European game. People can attack my opinion on it all they want but it was very simple to at least try prevent Bendtner scoreing and thats let Carra stay with him and hassle him when he tries to go for the ball. He might still have scored if he was properly marked but it would have been more difficult and less likely.It's resulting in soft goals from unmarked players.

spockety

Stekelly wrote: »

It's very easy to pass it off and say that every just goes on about zonal markign like it's some new buzz word but the goal today showed exactgly where zonal markign causes problems.

When the ball comes in Bendtner is beside Carra with another player (I wasnt minding who it was) beside crouch. Everyone moves forward as the ball comes in. Bendtner moves out of Carras "zone" so he has to leave him. Crouch is movign towards roughly where the ball is going but Bendtner comes in around him. The result is nobody marking Bendtner.. The same thing happen in the European game. People can attack my opinion on it all they want but it was very simple to at least try prevent Bendtner scoreing and thats let Carra stay with him and hassle him when he tries to go for the ball. He might still have scored if he was properly marked but it would have been more difficult and less likely.It's resulting in soft goals from unmarked players.

But Ste, how many goals are conceded a season by teams using man marking?
S**tloads. Absolutely S**tloads. Yet we do not see man marking being taken
apart as a tactic in matches every time a goal goes in.

You (rightly) see the IMPLEMENTATION of man marking being taken apart (e.g. "Look, just here, he lost his man, and bam, in it goes"), but never the concept.

With zonal marking, it is the concept that is torn up by commentators without a second thought, rather than the implementation.

The only time I have ever seen a pundit take the time to criticize the implemenation of Liverpool's zonal marking was Gordon Strachan the other night on Sky for the CL match. He uses zonal marking, and he was able to point out in detail what exactly the problem was with the implementation on Wednesday which led to Arsenal scoring from a set piece against us.

There are no plaudits for zonal marking the other 95% of the time it is successful in defending a set piece against Liverpool.

OPENROAD

Brando_ie wrote: »

Is there any possible way Liverpool can avoid conceding a penalty on Tuesday!!!....

I have a terrible feeling that some lad will fall over in the center circle and the ref will point to the spot!!!

Its squeaky bum time until the final whistle now for me..... damn Karma.... damn it to hell

We (Arsenal) should have had another pen today, that is two in two matches now, bet you Liverpool get one on Tuesday and it gets given

Dub13

OPENROAD wrote: »

We (Arsenal) should have had another pen today, that is two in two matches now, bet you Liverpool get one on Tuesday and it gets given

Lets hope so.;)

hamnegg

OPENROAD wrote: »

We (Arsenal) should have had another pen today, that is two in two matches now, bet you Liverpool get one on Tuesday and it gets given

Typical, things don't go your way start crying and blame everyone else. At least if we are muck we(Liverpool) will admit it, most of us anyway. Swings and roundabouts.

OPENROAD

hamnegg wrote: »

Typical, things don't go your way start crying and blame everyone else. At least if we are muck we(Liverpool) will admit it, most of us anyway. Swings and roundabouts.

I'll remember that the next time decisions go against Liverpool.

mike65

Arsenal fans or many of them fall for the hype created around Wenger as "genius" and the team as "artists" too good for the rest of us.

Mike.

OPENROAD

mike65 wrote: »

Arsenal fans or many of them fall for the hype created around Wenger as "genius" and the team as "artists" too good for the rest of us.

Mike.

Won't rise to it;)

lpool2k05

spockety wrote: »

But Ste, how many goals are conceded a season by teams using man marking?
S**tloads. Absolutely S**tloads. Yet we do not see man marking being taken
apart as a tactic in matches every time a goal goes in.

You (rightly) see the IMPLEMENTATION of man marking being taken apart (e.g. "Look, just here, he lost his man, and bam, in it goes"), but never the concept.

With zonal marking, it is the concept that is torn up by commentators without a second thought, rather than the implementation.

The only time I have ever seen a pundit take the time to criticize the implemenation of Liverpool's zonal marking was Gordon Strachan the other night on Sky for the CL match. He uses zonal marking, and he was able to point out in detail what exactly the problem was with the implementation on Wednesday which led to Arsenal scoring from a set piece against us.

There are no plaudits for zonal marking the other 95% of the time it is successful in defending a set piece against Liverpool.

I 100% agree with this!!Zonal marking is relatively new which is why people who dont understand the concept of it always criticise it!!I remember before the Utd game Liverpool rarely conceded any goals from set pieces!!Nobody would ever praise their system then though.

When theres a goal from a set-piece with a team using man marking nobody ever states the case for zonal!!its just lazy when pundits and commentators dont do research!

Thanx 4 The Fish

That lad who writes for LFC.tv tomkinson has analysed the stats and Zonal marking is by far and away the best used system for defending set pieces in the prem.

PHB

It is the best system per game, no doubt about that. Against weaker teams, its better than man for man. However top teams are able to beat the system. Why? Because those 2 or 3 inchs inbetween the zones are exploitable by those with amazing set piece delivery. That's why in the past couple of games against Arsenal and United, you've been beaten on set pieces. United are very good at beating the system, it's been the basis of the victories over you.

KdjaCL

Commentators ie Andy gray generally want to see big man vs big man in a bone crunching tussle for the ball.

Zonal marking or man to man means **** all if its a decent cross, watched fa cup to day and none of WBAs corners got past the 1st man. Can mark where you want but if its a decent ball delivered to a players head its gonna be a goal most of the time.


I shocked at state of the corners you see in football from pros, its a kick they practice every bloody day but more often then not dont clear the 1st man or just "float" it over and hope for the best.


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

Look at the amount of free headers and shots we concede, They dont all end in goals obviously and I'm not sure if it's because players are wonderig how the hell they ended up free and clear in the middle of the box or what but its like watchign schoolboy at times. Players are running into the box completely un noticed/watched. Theres often 2 and 3 players over in parts of the box that if the right ball is out in we're ****ed.

We have one of the 4 best defences in the league (I mean the the actual players , not the stats) so we should be conceding less than the other 16 teams in the league anyway, purely by having the better players. however we are struggling at the back at times badly because of the lack of marking going on. We also have, up to a few games ago (but thats just a form issue) arguably the best keeper in the league. Reina has saved an awful lot of shots that other keepers wouldnt when players are left on their own in the box.

Assuming the ball is half decent into the box from a set piece, the opposition nearly always get to it. Our players are left standing static in rows and not beign able to attack the ball . It's a simpel fact that a player running onto the cross is at an advantage over one that is making a standing jump.

The system is like watching front players en mass. When the ball is up front and the defender gets it, most strikers make a half hearted attempt to win it, but once the ball leaves their area ("zone") they lose interets till the ball comes back down their end. In the Liverpool box an opposition player runs across the box, passing through say 3 players "zones", as he enters each players zone he watches him for a bit, then he leaves the zone and the player stands there waiting for soemone else to come near him. Meanwhiel that opposition player has the run of the box. As PHB alluded to, the opposition just have to be carefull not to get too close to our defenders and they pretty much have a free shot if the player putting the ball in can pick them out. Kind of like negotiating a minefield. dont step on a mine and your grand. The mines wont chase you.

Reina having a couple of flappy games has really exposed our marking from set pieces. When he doesnt get to a ball we are in big trouble and that has really shown.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Reina still has more clean sheets than any other keeper in the league.

Guy:Incognito

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Reina still has more clean sheets than any other keeper in the league.

I think we established that seeing as he's played more games than the other top keepers he's had a better shot at it in fairness. David James only has 1 less and he has to play behind the Pompy defence.

lordgoat

Just saw Aresnals goal, great ball in, great header. I think that reina could have come and punched it. The second of 3 draws

Daemonic

Watching MOTD highlights and Voronin actually made me LOL when he fell on his arse when trying to turn with the ball. Every team should be forced to have a comedy player

mike65

Well lets see - hang on, that sounds like a fresh thread .

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

He could be made wear a clown suit.:D

KdjaCL

Vorinin is a smashing player, the perfect foil for a striker. No idea why he hasnt done in it the PL.


hmmm an addition to my confessions thread.


kdjac