Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

jesus_thats_gre

The extreme criticism that Vorinin receives is uncalled for. I am not saying that he is a great player in anyway. Take todays game for example, he is just back from an extremely long injury and is majorly lacking match fitness.. In general though, he is a so so player who's decision making isn't bad, is a decent striker of the ball but lacks pace.

Guy:Incognito

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The extreme criticism that Vorinin receives is uncalled for. I am not saying that he is a great player in anyway. Take todays game for example, he is just back from an extremely long injury and is majorly lacking match fitness.. In general though, he is a so so player who's decision making isn't bad, is a decent striker of the ball but lacks pace.

Match fitness has nothing to do with him being clear in on goal and using his right foot to hit a ball that was perfectly tee'd up for a simple enough left foot finish. It's appaling that so many professional footballers cant do a simple thing like that with their so called bad foot.

mike65

His positional sense isn't bad, his finishing never was good though, would be better in what was Yossis role today. I see Rafas been mentioning Crouchy in dispatches, no doubt to keep him sweet, new contract offered but I doubt he'll stay.

Mike.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I would say we will have him for another season anyway, not sure if he will want to stick around for too long after that though. Some players are suited to coming off the bench for their days ala Pegguy and Ole and others want to play every week which is completely understandable.

mike65

I'd love to see him start on Tuesday, that would bowl Wengers back line a googly. Keep Yossi in the postion Gerrard would normally take up.

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Reina
Finnan--Carra-Skrtel--Aurelio

---

Masch
Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Yossi

---

Crouch

Subs - Martin, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Riise

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mike65 wrote: »

I'd love to see him start on Tuesday, that would bowl Wengers back line a googly. Keep Yossi in the postion Gerrard would normally take up.

---

Reina
Finnan--Carra-Skrtel--Aurelio

---

Masch
Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Yossi

---

Crouch

Subs - Martin, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Riise

Torres on the bench...?
I'm still of the opinoin that we need two up front.

Daemonic

Same team as Wednesday for me. Finnan on the right and Carra back in the centre maybe, but other than that stick with the first choice 11.

leninbenjamin

mike65 wrote: »

I'd love to see him start on Tuesday, that would bowl Wengers back line a googly. Keep Yossi in the postion Gerrard would normally take up.

---

Reina
Finnan--Carra-Skrtel--Aurelio

---

Masch
Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Yossi

---

Crouch

Subs - Martin, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Riise

surely the mobility of Flamini and Cesc would tear that midfield to shreds though. and it would just result in the Pool playing the long ball, which would play right into Arsenals hands ( i know it works for Chelsea, but that's simply because they've Drogba) as they try and carve out lots of possession.

lordgoat

Stekelly wrote: »

Match fitness has nothing to do with him being clear in on goal and using his right foot to hit a ball that was perfectly tee'd up for a simple enough left foot finish. It's appaling that so many professional footballers cant do a simple thing like that with their so called bad foot.

+1

I can't agree more with this statement.

and in a side note, scored one with old lefty today and hit the bar as well.


Awful miss by voronin though.

Jazzy

leninbenjamin wrote: »

surely the mobility of Flamini and Cesc would tear that midfield to shreds though. and it would just result in the Pool playing the long ball, which would play right into Arsenals hands ( i know it works for Chelsea, but that's simply because they've Drogba) as they try and carve out lots of possession.

yeah i agree with that too. we need the alonso-masch-gerrard midfield on tuesday imo

hamnegg

leninbenjamin wrote: »

surely the mobility of Flamini and Cesc would tear that midfield to shreds though. and it would just result in the Pool playing the long ball, which would play right into Arsenals hands ( i know it works for Chelsea, but that's simply because they've Drogba) as they try and carve out lots of possession.

Did anyone else not find it odd that Cesc played the full 90 today? Gerrard, Torres and Alonso rested?

jesus_thats_gre

Arsenal had to win this match to maintain any sort of hope of getting the league (assuming United win tomorrow that is). Fabregas is the creative influence in the centre of midfield. Having him on for the full match isn;t that surprising.

mike65

I would use Crouch as a bean-pole battering ram for 55 mins then bring on Torres by that point the likes of Senderos and Toure will be begging for mercy.

Mike.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I would leave both of them on, torres running on to some of those Crouchie knock downs would work very well I think. And with Gerrard bursting through too could be a very good setup. The amount of ball that Crouchie won yesterday was incrdible na dhe controlled or knocked on most of them.

shotamoose

Yeah, Crouch was so good and he has such a great record against the Arse that Rafa must be pondering. I don't think it'll happen but I think there's a good case for going back to 4-4-2 and sticking Stevie G back in right midfield (massaging his ego by assuring him it's for one game only of course).

Guy:Incognito

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

I would leave both of them on, torres running on to some of those Crouchie knock downs would work very well I think. And with Gerrard bursting through too could be a very good setup. The amount of ball that Crouchie won yesterday was incrdible na dhe controlled or knocked on most of them.

he had a lot of the ball yet still cant seem to win a header. He was the closest man for both the Arsenal goal and the their other best headed chance in our box.

He seems to have an aversion (sp?) to jumpign for the ball, he kind of pulls his legs up and ducks his head.

Mr Alan

Plessis looked excellent yesterday looks like he is gonna be a super player if he can deal with an away debut against Arsenal as easily as that. Held his own against gilberto,fabregas and Flamini. Strange how the london based media still soils themselves over arsenals kids, but Lucas and Plessis dont get hardly a mention?

PHB

4-4-2?! That'd be extremely surprising. First off, it would put Gerrard back into center midfield, which IMO, would loss possession just too much against Arsenal, and would result in him having to sit back a lot.

Gerrard played against Arsenal as a 2nd striker, and did much much less defensive work. He scored your goal. Crouch playing would push Gerrard back, and drop Alonso.
If you play Crouch, you become more and more a longball team, because Alonso won't be playing, and the link up won't be as good.

Secondly, it's too offensive. I'd be shocked if you didn't concede in a 4-4-2, while in a 4-5-1, it's very possible you won't concede at all, which I've no doubt is Rafas goal. Wenger will set his team out to score 2 goals, no doubt about that, a defensive formation is the natural way to go (although I'd say in the first 20 minutes, Liverpool will go at Arsenal hell for leather.)

Mr Alan

Old Trafford Lock In

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rfihh4xrjU

shotamoose

Mr Alan wrote: »

Strange how the london based media still soils themselves over arsenals kids, but Lucas and Plessis dont get hardly a mention?

True of the tabloids I'm sure but in fairness to them the Observer made Plessis their MOTM!

redspider

A good day at the office for Liverpool. A good result using a lot of '2nd string' players, compared with Arsenal who had most of their 1st 11 out. Liverpool not only got a good result, but probably shaded it in terms of opportunities to score and a draw was a fair result all told.

One bad aspect was the soft goal given away, again given by a poor execution of the zonal marking (( agree with the posters that said that). I think that with Reina offering so little protection (ie: presence) to defenders on the 6 yard line and in that busy 6 yard box, there is a lot of unsuredness and players are leaving their spots and the zonal marking pattern loses its shape. Then its just a matter of time if a goal will come from such opportunities. And losing the shape of the zonal marking pattern is what happend in the CL match as well.

I am not happy with Reina though who on both occasions failed to even put a good dive in and just watched the ball more or less go in. Okay, the headers were from point blank range but he needs to be more active than that when a header is from 6 yards out. You cant just wait to see where its going to go, as its too late. Also, shouldnt he be off his line, come at least 3 yards out. That greatly increases his presence. He also needs to jump vertically, rather than sideways. Get him to watch a GAA match quickly please Rafa.

Rafa will need to get this zonal marking messes sorted out before the match on Tue. Ironically, before the 1st match I was saying that Reina's trait of dodgy handling of crossing was unlikely to be tested by Arsenal who do not play the crossing game (they play more inside the 'channel' and passing), but crossing is the way that Arsenal have scored twice so far and it will likely be a threat on Wed, unless we get our act together.

A great debut for Plessis. I didnt recognise the name when I saw him on the teamsheet. Even though he played a simple enough game, he did well, so Rafa's surprise choice paid off.

hamnegg wrote: »

Did anyone else not find it odd that Cesc played the full 90 today? Gerrard, Torres and Alonso rested?

Yeah, I did notice that alright and think it will play into Liverpool's hands. Fibreglass was tired before the end of the match last Wed, and is likely to be the same on Tue.

I expect Arsenal will tire a lot on Tues. We need to exploit that by keeping the ball, letting the ball do the work and forcing Arsenal to chase. We dont have to force a goal or make risky passes in looking for one. I hope Rafa adopts that as a tactic and can get the players to do it as well, ie: passing.

So that will mean ensuring that the likes of Hyypia and Carra do not lob long hopeful balls forward, but instead keep the passing going. They are not that good at that though, unlike Arsenal who pass, pass, pass. Also, Stevie G will need to keep his passes simple and not look for the killer 60 yard pass or have his foot ready to do a 20-yard pass to Kuyt expecting Kuyt to be as good as Maradona or as Stevie G himself. He needs to keep things simple, ensure posession, and the goals will come.

So far in the Arsenal trilogy, its advantage Liverpool. I think Rafa would have jumped at the 2 results that have happened so far if they were offered to him at the start, so he is happy and we arer in a good position. Now there are a multitude of ways to get past Arsenal and win the tie in this 2nd leg - 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 (pens), 2-0, 2-1, will all be enough. Arsenal are having a torrid time lately and their confidence cant be high. If we can get that 1st goal, the tie should be ours. I think we will do it ...... lets hope so.

Redspider

mada999

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

I would leave both of them on, torres running on to some of those Crouchie knock downs would work very well I think. And with Gerrard bursting through too could be a very good setup. The amount of ball that Crouchie won yesterday was incrdible na dhe controlled or knocked on most of them.

yeah I agree with that, Crouchie won nearly every header yesterday..could be a good option to have him on with Torres, but who do you sacrifice in midfield then...

redspider

I dont think Rafa will play Crouch. I think he will stick with a 4-2-3-1 with Torres up-front with Gerrard in behind him in the centre and roaming and looking to link up. Torres is fairly mobile too.

Benitez may make some changes in the personnel. If Finnan is okay, he may play him at RB and play Carra and Skrtel in the centre. Hyypia whilst good in the air could be caught for pace. Finnan should be able to offer more in terms of possession and attacking options going down the right. Aurelio will likely get his LB berth back. And Mash and Alonso back in centre midfield. I expect Rafa to keep his trust in Kuyt. He may be tempted to throw on Benayoun instead of Babel, as Rafa always seems to surprise us all. Or else Aurelio as LM and Riise at LB. Rafa probably wont decide until Tues evening.

Redspider

Tusky

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Reina

Carra---Skrtel--Hyypia--Aurelio

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Masch--Alonso

Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Torres

I think this is the team we will see.

dobsdave

Cesc doesnt like the way we play::eek:

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/04/06/manual_120309.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Thanx 4 The Fish

Oh well, perhaps they would prefer it if we kept giving them the ball all the time and not challenging all the time. That would at least guarantee that they get a few chances, but would they be happy even then

Mental Mickey

dobsdave wrote: »

Cesc doesnt like the way we play::eek:

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/04/06/manual_120309.html&TEAMHD=soccer

He's a t****r anyhow. Who cares what he thinks??

PHB

I would have some respect for Cescs opinion, had he not shown no respect to Mark Hughes at all, as such, he's fast becoming a player I intensively dislike.

Tusky

I really like him as a player but I find he can come across as quite arrogant sometimes.

Mascherano has been getting a lot of praise from players in different teams lately. Who was it from Inter that was raving about him as well ?

Fabregas went on to praise Javier Mascherano, whose tenacious play was a big reason for the Spaniard's peripheral role in the first leg of the Champions League tie at the Emirates.

He said: "I could feel his breath on my neck all the first half. For me, I think he is an amazing player. Defensively, he's very good and with the ball, he knows what he is doing. He reminds me a little bit of Mathieu [Flamini] as well."

kryogen

its because masch is one of the best in the world in his position, he deserves the credit he gets

Zapp Brannigan

Twas Zanetti who was singing Masche's praises the other month.

PHB

I find it funny that Fabregas bitches about Liverpool not playing football, but then praises their most brilliant destructive player, Mascherano.
It's as if he's talking ****e, or more accurately, trying to goade some of the Liverpool players into over-extending themselves against Arsenal.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Strange how the london based media still soils themselves over arsenals kids, but Lucas and Plessis dont get hardly a mention?

Maybe because the arsenal kids are better?

rosboy

IrishMike wrote: »

Maybe because the arsenal kids are better?

Maybe in the past IrishMike. Benitez has brought in some very exciting youngsters in the last couple of years Think next year we'll see a few pushing for places on the first team (Plessis, Insua, Leto, Nemeth, Darby and a few more)

Thanx 4 The Fish

has scored in most of the games I have seen him in on LFC Tv.

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

I would have some respect for Cescs opinion, had he not shown no respect to Mark Hughes at all, as such, he's fast becoming a player I intensively dislike.

and he apologised to hughes,so cut him some slack.

dc69

OPENROAD wrote: »

and he apologised to hughes,so cut him some slack.

because he was forced to,the fact that he did it in the first place shows his true colours.Look at the videos of him on youtube,spitting,diving etc.

i agree with phb.

OPENROAD

dc69 wrote: »

because he was forced to,the fact that he did it in the first place shows his true colours.Look at the videos of him on youtube,spitting,diving etc.

Bit like Torres and Gerrard

dc69

OPENROAD wrote: »

Bit like Torres and Gerrard

no,not at all.Ive never seen gerrard or torres spit at anyone,and seldom dive as much as the specialists arsenal.Gerrard very rarely dives at all.Fabregas is a nasty piece of work,simple as.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zbkJrlrO9tQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=doOw2_Na51E&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qUNmgIF_9vw&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CvlsEbcZq98&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4sR7FZ97Y0&NR=1

when a team has a 7 minute video of them cheating and diving,you know they are consistent offenders.The last vid is my favourite.

PHB

Screw the diving, who cares, everybody does it. But spitting is a whole new level imo. The guy is immensely talented, amazing player, but I really hope he grows up. He's still very young, and maybe he'll mature a lot

jesus_thats_gre

Most young but extremely talented players have that arrogant side to them, whether it be Rooney, Ronaldo or Fabregas. It manifests itself in various ways.

Tusky

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Most young but extremely talented players have that arrogant side to them, whether it be Rooney, Ronaldo or Fabregas. It manifests itself in various ways.

I dont find Rooney particularly arrogant.

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

Screw the diving, who cares, everybody does it. But spitting is a whole new level imo. The guy is immensely talented, amazing player, but I really hope he grows up. He's still very young, and maybe he'll mature a lot

and I agree it is disgusting and for that incident he should have got a red and been fined by the club. That incident is a few years ago, and thankfully he has not done it again.

As you said all clubs have divers, I could just as easily look up youtube and post incidents of players from every club, we still have players at Arsenal who do but it is hypocritical for people to come on here and pretend that it is not a problem at there club.

Tusky

Just thinking about this new signing. Any chance it could be Robbie Keane and Ballague just got it wrong with the 'English' comment ?

Can play on the right, would slot into the first 11 & isnt a huge name.

Hes a Liverpool fan and has the work ethic that Benitez looks for.

Kimbot

Tusky wrote: »

Just thinking about this new signing. Any chance it could be Robbie Keane and Ballague just got it wrong with the 'English' comment ?

Can play on the right, would slot into the first 11 & isnt a huge name.

Hes a Liverpool fan and has the work ethic that Benitez looks for.

Could well be.
I had thought about him playing for us now for a good while.

dc69

jonny24ie wrote: »

Could well be.
I had thought about him playing for us now for a good while.

i would have thought robbie keane would cost big bucks though.whoever he plays with he seems to make better,if bent cost 18 million,i would rate keane at at least 14 ?

mike65

News of the World said we have "signed" the Brailizan right back Rafinha.

Mike.

Tusky

mike65 wrote: »

News of the World said we have "signed" the Brailizan right back Rafinha.

Mike.

If that is true I will do a backflip!

Ideal summer would be something like this.

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Torres

---

Crouch

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

NEW
Benayoun

---

Kuyt

---

Pennant

---

Alonso---Mascherano

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Lucas

---

Plesis


NEW

---

Carra

---

Agger

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Rafinha
Aurelio----Skrtel

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Hyypia

---

Arbeloa

---

Reina

---

Itandje

Thanx 4 The Fish

I really do think that Keane is slightly overrated. He plays at a team that until recently have been massively focussed on getting the ball to him and having him score, I would guess that his goals to chances ratio is pretty low, not a great worker IMO either.

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

I dont find Rooney particularly arrogant.

Yes, but is an over aggressive thug on occassions. As he gets older, it will die down. As it has done this season actually.