Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

i dont want owen either Yom, but its about striking a balance between spending big money well (Rooney,Tevez,Torres) and spending reasonable money on players that are better than wat we already have (arbeloa,vidic,evra) the question is, would Owen make us a stronger team? i'm not convinced he would tbh.

PS: werent Utd talking about signing Owen as recently as Jan?

IrishMike

PHB wrote: »

Eh, Fergies been after Owen for years. He just wanted to sign him on the cheap.

You are flogging a dead horse PHB.
Rafa would not want Owen for the following reasons:

1) Wages
2) Injury prone
3) Liverpool dont play a system which could accomodate his as a first choice player
4) His form is always crap for 4-5 games after he gets injured.
5) Benitez holds grudges
6) His age

stick-dan

So what striker should we be looking at then? Because as said we do need wingers and if we are investing in wingers for the club then we have to abide by the cost/effectiveness ratio. We point out the problem of wingers but really up front we depend on torres alone, Kuyt although a fantastic work-horse for the team he just doesn't cut it goals wise at this level and crouch almost has one foot out the door. We need a striker close to the quality of torres, Who would ya pick?

PHB

Whether Rafa would want to buy Owen is another issue, I really don't know, but I'm just saying I think he'd be a good singing.

Liverpool need another striker, they have to have better cover for Torres, and I don't think you'd get a player of Owen's quality for a similar price.
Who else is there?
There's only so much money to go around, and not that many players to sell to fund transfers, you gotta focus, and I think the focus should be lots of money on a winger, and then a cheaper striker.

Rafa has to find some offensive bargains if you want to be able to challenge. Owen is such a bargain.

Sqaull20

Anyone who wants to sign Owen is a damned fool.

Only 15 year old girls from taiwan and 40 yr old shirtless men from england still think michael owen is good.

The guy's hamstring has been broke since he was a teenager. It goes in November (when it gets cold)

Brando_ie

PHB wrote: »

Eh, Fergies been after Owen for years. He just wanted to sign him on the cheap.

KMH says that is nonsense, unless he wants him to mind the gee gee's!!

yom 1

Has there been any rumblings from the meeting between Gillette, Hicks and DIC at the Emirates last week or did it actually go ahead at all?

Charlie

Now that we're free of debt and the owner has a fair bt of wedge, I don't think Newcastle are a selling club. If Owen were to go (which I really hope he doesn't) it would be because an above market bid was made, and tbh I don't see Liverpool spending 20+ million on him.

Also, Keegan has helped Owen immensely since he has joined the club, re-inventing him (the same Keegan who's allegedly tactically inept), and I think Owen will want to continue that relationship in order to ensure his England place. I don't think Rafa would guarantee him the same amount of attention, or goals, I don't think.

TBH I would see Martins being more of a Rafa buy (again I hope not)

whatawaster

It's clear we need a top class winger in the summer. Who it will be is anyone's guess. If money were no option, our realistic targets could be Quaresma, Ribery, Schweinsteiger (who i don't really rate tbh), Fernandez. However i expect someone else - along the lines of Young, Lennon (don't rate him either) or Bentley, or even McGeady.
Then we need a top YOUNG striker. Young because they must be willing to play second fiddle to Torres for a year or two at least. Agbonlahor would be a good option though probably pricey.
Then we need a right back - looks like it'll be Rafinha.
Then a young attacking midfielder to cover Gerrard, and a young winger (those two young South Americans Rafa is apparantly tying up?), similar in price to Lucas maybe?

Possible Ins:
First Choice Winger - 15m
Backup for Torres - 10m
Rafinha - 8m
Young Winger - 5m
Young AMC - 5m

Total 43m

Out:
Pennant - 5m
Crouch - 10m
Carson - 5m (and looking like less every day)
Riise - 5m
Voronin - 2m

That's a net spend of only 16m. Possibly upgrade one of the above purchases to a world class option if available.
I am confident Plessis, Insua and Nemeth will make the step up next season

---

Reina/Itandje

---

Rafinha/Finnan/Arbeloa----Carra/Skrtel

---

Agger/Hyypia----Aurelio/Insua/Arb

---

Mascherano/Plessis----Alonso/Lucas

---

---

Gerrard/New AMC/

---

New Top Winger/Kuyt//Benayoun

---

Babel/New Youngster

---

Torres/New/Nemeth/Kuyt

---

That's a potentially very good, young squad.

woodyg

Sqaull20 wrote: »

The guy's hamstring has been broke since he was a teenager. It goes in November (when it gets cold)

I'd like to see the stats for when he does get injured wouldn't suprise me if this wasnt to far off as a guess!

Owen to the pool is just a bad idea, too expensive in fee and wages for what he brings to the table.
It could be a very quite Summer for the pool transfer wise unless the board room is settled.
I can see a maximum of 3 players coming in with as many as 5 going out.
1 striker 1 winger and 1 attacking midfielder/support striker.
Who goes well take your pick from Crouch, Kewell, Voronin, Pennant, Rise, Benayoun, Leto, Roque, Guthrie, Carson.

There is potential to raise a nice sum from that lot towards a good kitty with out even going to the board with the hands out going please sir can i have some more.

Personaly i would not like Crouch to go he showed on Sunday he is still a very good player who is a different option to any one else we have or any one else in the world really. Raffa knows this but also knows he wants to play more.
Kuyt will be kept cause he just gives so much on the field in terms or effort and work rate and i never hear or see him complain about being asked to play wide or in midfield. Attitude wise he is a champ.

ibh

woodyg wrote: »

I'd like to see the stats for when he does get injured wouldn't suprise me if this wasnt to far off as a guess!

Owen to the pool is just a bad idea, too expensive in fee and wages for what he brings to the table.
It could be a very quite Summer for the pool transfer wise unless the board room is settled.
I can see a maximum of 3 players coming in with as many as 5 going out.
1 striker 1 winger and 1 attacking midfielder/support striker.
Who goes well take your pick from Crouch, Kewell, Voronin, Pennant, Rise, Benayoun, Leto, Roque, Guthrie, Carson.

There is potential to raise a nice sum from that lot towards a good kitty with out even going to the board with the hands out going please sir can i have some more.

Personaly i would not like Crouch to go he showed on Sunday he is still a very good player who is a different option to any one else we have or any one else in the world really. Raffa knows this but also knows he wants to play more.
Kuyt will be kept cause he just gives so much on the field in terms or effort and work rate and i never hear or see him complain about being asked to play wide or in midfield. Attitude wise he is a champ.

Would like to see us sign Lucas Podolski as a back up to Torres. He's having a sh!t season at Bayern but is a good player, only 21 and probably wouldn't cost the earth.
Would like to see us go for Philip Lahm as well from Bayern. Again, not his best season but he is a quality full back and very good going forward and has 2 good feet.

Can't be arsed trying to think of wingers to sign.. Don't like the kind of prices being suggested for Ashley Young, already stated last week that i'm not set on Bentley either. I'd prefer someone like Van de Vaart and play him in the positions Kuyt's been in.

whatawaster

ibh wrote: »

Would like to see us sign Lucas Podolski as a back up to Torres. He's having a sh!t season at Bayern but is a good player, only 21 and probably wouldn't cost the earth.
Would like to see us go for Philip Lahm as well from Bayern. Again, not his best season but he is a quality full back and very good going forward and has 2 good feet.

Can't be arsed trying to think of wingers to sign.. Don't like the kind of prices being suggested for Ashley Young, already stated last week that i'm not set on Bentley either. I'd prefer someone like Van de Vaart and play him in the positions Kuyt's been in.

Yes to Podolski. Lahm will be far too expensive for a full back. And is he THAT much better than Rafinha?

Stephen Ireland would be great backup for Gerrard.

jesus_thats_gre

Owen would make perfect sense. He is obviously far too injury prone for any of the big clubs to have to depend on his as a first choice striker. However, having him as an alternative/partner to Torres would make alot of sense - if only because he is a far better player than Kuyt or Voronin. Even if he only started 20 games a season due to injury, he would still be putting them away when has plays (which he keeps proving every season).

Bounty Hunter

Ashley young is not for sale and Liverpool/anybody else would have to pay well well over the odds for him if he were to be signed. He only arrived at Villa in January of last season for a fee that will eventually end up being £9.75 million and since then his value has sky-rocketed IMO, he has gotten into the England set-up, can play on both sides aswell as an emergency forward and is in many a persons team of the season.

He isnt going anywhere cheap!

jesus_thats_gre

IrishMike wrote: »

You are flogging a dead horse PHB.
Rafa would not want Owen for the following reasons:

1) Wages
2) Injury prone
3) Liverpool dont play a system which could accomodate his as a first choice player
4) His form is always crap for 4-5 games after he gets injured.
5) Benitez holds grudges
6) His age

I am pretty certain that there was an article published about 3 weeks ago talking about how Rafa had a choice between a 10 million Owen of a 20 million Torres and decided to gamble the majority of his transfer pot on Torres.

jesus_thats_gre

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Now that we're free of debt and the owner has a fair bt of wedge, I don't think Newcastle are a selling club. If Owen were to go (which I really hope he doesn't) it would be because an above market bid was made, and tbh I don't see Liverpool spending 20+ million on him.

Ironic that you say this considering is he apparently desperately trying to sell the club after loosing a fortune in financial markets, nevermind players.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Also, Keegan has helped Owen immensely since he has joined the club, re-inventing him (the same Keegan who's allegedly tactically inept), and I think Owen will want to continue that relationship in order to ensure his England place. I don't think Rafa would guarantee him the same amount of attention, or goals, I don't think.

TBH I would see Martins being more of a Rafa buy (again I hope not)

IIRC, Owen was one of those that claimed (certainly implied as much anyway) that he was tactically inept.

astrofool

whatawaster wrote: »

Possible Ins:
First Choice Winger - 15m
Backup for Torres - 10m
Rafinha - 8m
Young Winger - 5m
Young AMC - 5m

Total 43m

Out:
Pennant - 5m
Crouch - 10m
Carson - 5m (and looking like less every day)
Riise - 5m
Voronin - 2m

I'd be extremely sceptical of simply replacing Crouch with a better younger player without a large net deficit cost wise, esp. as Crouch has 1 year on his contract. I also don't see Voronin leaving after a single season, he'll likely be there for another season yet. You're essentially trying to get rid of deadweight (Riise/Pennant), and get in young players who will propel Liverpool up the table, at virtually no net cost, highly unrealistic.

IrishMike

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am pretty certain that there was an article published about 3 weeks ago talking about how Rafa had a choice between a 10 million Owen of a 20 million Torres and decided to gamble the majority of his transfer pot on Torres.

Was it not that despite pleading from Gerrard and Carragher he decided Owen
wasnt what Liverpool needed and instead opted for Torres?
He said something along the lines of they had a list of potential targets and that Owen was one of them, but for a number of reasons they decided against him

Charlie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Ironic that you say this considering is he apparently desperately trying to sell the club after loosing a fortune in financial markets, nevermind players.

Yeah that story was in the Sun alright, whihch as most Liverpool supporters know, is a bastion of truth.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

IIRC, Owen was one of those that claimed (certainly implied as much anyway) that he was tactically inept.

He said that he wasn't impressed by Keegan as an England manager, which is fair enough. However, Keegan's strength is being involved day to day with a team, getting to know the team and building up confidence. I'm not saying that Keegan is some sort of tactical genius, but he isn't the fool the press paint him to be. How he has deployed Owen and changed his style is an example of this.

Anyway, this is a Liverpool thread and I don't want to hijack it, so enough said.

whatawaster

astrofool wrote: »

I'd be extremely sceptical of simply replacing Crouch with a better younger player without a large net deficit cost wise, esp. as Crouch has 1 year on his contract. I also don't see Voronin leaving after a single season, he'll likely be there for another season yet. You're essentially trying to get rid of deadweight (Riise/Pennant), and get in young players who will propel Liverpool up the table, at virtually no net cost, highly unrealistic.

i don't think so. Crouch is an England international and i think there will be half a dozen clubs looking to sign him. Maybe a bidding war. Riise too has a very good reputation outside Liverpool. Pennant may be used as a make-weight in a deal for Young perhaps. He'd do great in a mid table side i think. Carson too is an england international so we have several very sellable players who can bring in plenty of money.
Ideally the young players will cost similar amounts to Agger and Lucas and will be bedded in slowly just as they were. They will be backup initially, of course. I don't think any of that is unrealistic. I also don't think they'll be the players to shoot us up the table. I think the top class winger/Rafinha/improved Babel may help us do that.

monkey9

Just in terms of this English player that Ballague says we have virtually for the summer. There was a small bit in the People yesterday saying that Liverpool have pretty much captured.......Lee Cattermole from Middlesboro.

IrishMike

monkey9 wrote: »

Just in terms of this English player that Ballague says we have virtually for the summer. There was a small bit in the People yesterday saying that Liverpool have pretty much captured.......Lee Cattermole from Middlesboro.

The title is a shoe in if thats the case :rolleyes:
Really really really hope u are wrong

Tusky

monkey9 wrote: »

Just in terms of this English player that Ballague says we have virtually for the summer. There was a small bit in the People yesterday saying that Liverpool have pretty much captured.......Lee Cattermole from Middlesboro.

Yeah saw that. My heart sank. Yay a central midfielder.

Cyrus

just what we need

:(

monkey9

IrishMike wrote: »

The title is a shoe in if thats the case :rolleyes:
Really really really hope u are wrong

God, so do i. I keep telling myself, sure it's only a red top rag etc etc.......but the horror resides within me

dobsdave

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Ashley young is not for sale and Liverpool/anybody else would have to pay well well over the odds for him if he were to be signed. He only arrived at Villa in January of last season for a fee that will eventually end up being £9.75 million and since then his value has sky-rocketed IMO, he has gotten into the England set-up, can play on both sides aswell as an emergency forward and is in many a persons team of the season.

He isnt going anywhere cheap!

Ok, a straight swap for Carson it is then.;)

zAbbo

Cattermole's not a bad player, not what we need though.

Just think, another few weeks, and it's transfer speculation silly season.

It sounds like Rafa has some deals done, as he likes to get players in early, even more so with Euro 08 happening.

Another end of season clearout will probably happen, but Rafa knows the importance of having good squad players.

He'll not sell, unless he can get better in as replacements.

I think Benayoun, Pennant, Riise, Kewel, Crouch, Vorinin could all go

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

Yeah saw that. My heart sank. Yay a central midfielder.

Is he any good though? We may not need to despair - we do need another CM. now we play 3 in the middle - Mascherano/Plessis???, Alonso/Lucas, Gerrard/???.
I haven't seen enough of Cattermole to judge, but personally i think either Johnson or Ireland, preferrably Ireland, from City would be good choices.

IrishMike

whatawaster wrote: »

preferrably Ireland, from City would be good choices.

He will never join.
Would mean he would have to sell his "ride" for fear of being lynched

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/IrelandPinkRange_468x269.jpg

whatawaster

IrishMike wrote: »

He will never join.
Would mean he would have to sell his "ride" for fear of being lynched

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/IrelandPinkRange_468x269.jpg

Bizarre.
He'll be a top player though.

zing

yom 1 wrote: »

Has there been any rumblings from the meeting between Gillette, Hicks and DIC at the Emirates last week or did it actually go ahead at all?

Gillet apparently wasn't there due to being snowed in somewhere or other in the US. Foster was there though iirc. Hicks as we've seen from pics was also there along with his posse. No word as to whether DIC were there.

spockety

Back to the issues at hand.. Arsenal come to Liverpool tomorrow night. Stolen from a long time ago and from another forum, but a classic posting nonetheless..

Rushian@RAWK wrote:

Have you ever entered an empty stadium? Try it. Stand in the middle of the field and listen. There is nothing less empty than an empty stadium. There is nothing less mute than stands bereft of people.

At Wembley, shouts from the '66 World Cup which England won still resound, and if you listen very closely you can hear groans from 1953 when England fell to the Hungarians. Montevideo's Centenario Stadium sighs with nostalgia for the glory days of Uruguayan football. Maracana is still crying over Brazil's 1950 World Cup defeat.

At Bombonera in Buenos Aires, drums boom from half a century ago. From the depths of Azteca Stadium, you can hear the ceremonial chants of the ancient Mexican ball game. The concrete terraces of the Nou Camp in Barcelona speak Catalan, and the stands of San Mames in Bilbao talk in Euskera.

In Milan, the ghost of Giuseppe Meazza scores goals that shake the stadium bearing his name. The final of the '74 World Cup, won by Germany, is played day after day and night after night at Munich's Olympic Stadium.

The stadium of King Fahd in Saudi Arabia has marble and gold boxes and carpeted stands, but it has no memory or much of anything to say.

Eduardo Galeano, Football in Sun and Shadow, 1995

Next Monday evening Chelsea will train in an empty stadium. The loudest empty stadium in the world. It'll whisper to them of Liverpool's four glorious European Cup victories. Kopites now long departed will take up their specs again and invoke visions in the Chelsea minds of St Etienne, Inter Milan, Auxerre, Roma, Barcelona and Juventus.

The stands will echo to songs of triumph and glory, of the dignity of Elisha Scott and Billy Liddell, the heart of Ian St John and Emlyn Hughes, the strength of Tommy Smith and Graeme Souness, and the brilliance of John Barnes and Kenny Dalglish.

And when the Chelsea players look around, nervously, to see where these evocations are coming from they'll see no one there. They'll return to their hotel and
struggle to sleep as their minds are filled with thoughts of Reds coming up that hill once more, victorious and glorious.

And on Tuesday evening it is up to us, today's fans, to do our footballing ancestors proud at Anfield. Tuesday night is a chance for Glory, both on and off the pitch.

Do your best Reds, for there's nothing more you can do, and Rafa's team will have the chance to emulate the great teams of yore in Istanbul.

This can and will be OUR year.

© Rushian 2005

Guy:Incognito

monkey9 wrote: »

Just in terms of this English player that Ballague says we have virtually for the summer. There was a small bit in the People yesterday saying that Liverpool have pretty much captured.......Lee Cattermole from Middlesboro.

Hopefully the cattermole rumour is unrelated and complete rubbish.

Did he say what position? If he didnt specify a Striker, I hope it's Bentley.

I heart Bentley.

Melion

If we are selling Alonso this summer then we could do a lot worse than Lee Cattermole. He's a great midfielder, more like Masch than Alonso in that he likes a tackle but wouldn't be a bad option to have in the centre. But if we are keeping Xabi then signing him is pointless.

Zapp Brannigan

Stekelly wrote: »

Hopefully the cattermole rumour is unrelated and complete rubbish.

Did he say what position? If he didnt specify a Striker, I hope it's Bentley.

I heart Bentley.

He said that the player wasn't currently playing on the right, so Bentley seems doubtful.

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

If we are selling Alonso this summer then we could do a lot worse than Lee Cattermole. .

We could do a lot better though.

jesus_thats_gre

If he is 4th or 5th choice, we don't need to do alot better. Christ, if we loose a central midfielder, he needs to be replaced. He is either going to be replaced with someone superior who will compete for a place in the first team or will provide cover and allow the present 3rd and 4th choice to state their claim on the the starting 11. Also, if Alonso is sold, we wil get anything between 10 and 15 million for him while Catermole will only cost a 3rd of that, thus leaving anything up to 10 million for signing quality in a position that badly needs strenghtening.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

If he is 4th or 5th choice, we don't need to do alot better. Christ, if we loose a central midfielder, he needs to be replaced. He is either going to be replaced with someone superior who will compete for a place in the first team or will provide cover and allow the present 3rd and 4th choice to state their claim on the the starting 11. Also, if Alonso is sold, we wil get anything between 10 and 15 million for him while Catermole will only cost a 3rd of that, thus leaving anything up to 10 million for signing quality in a position that badly needs strenghtening.

To add to this, I would prefer existing squad and youth players be given the chance to come in.

Tusky

We have 4 CMs in squad. In the current formation Lucas can fill in for any one of them. If Gerrard is out, it is likely we will go 4-4-2 and replace him with a striker. OR we could play Benayoun, Babel or Kuyt in his position. Plesis also impressed against Arsenal.

In summary : we dont need another CM.

mike65

would prefer existing squad and youth players be given the chance to come in

Quiet so, they're cheap and the progress some are making in the reserves suggests its about time two or three were seriously road tested. Anderson who is on loan with Swansea is a player I'd like to see given a go. Guthrie will join Bolton by the looks of it (a season or three in the Championship beckons though!).

Here is the squad for the rezzies game tonight, lots of talent

Liverpool team: David Martin, Stephen Darby, Emiliano Insua, Mikel San Jose Dominguez, Ronald Huth, Daniel Ayala, Nabil El Zhar, Jay Spearing, Dani Pacheco, Krisztian Nemeth, Ryan Flynn.

Subs: Gerardo Bruna, Peter Gulacsi, Damien Plessis, Martin Kelly, Andras Simon

Ps Hyypia put pen to paper today.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Is Guthrie coming back at the end of the season? He's looking good at Bolton and if he's happy I think he'd provide good cover.

EDIT, oops, missed Mikes post,

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

In summary : we dont need another CM.

We do if Alonso is sold!

StickyMcGinty

Reserve game kicking off on LFV.tv in a few mins v Blackburn

a win for the pool and they'll be crowned reserve league champions

Squad:

The Liverpool team is

David Martin
Stephen Darby (captain)
Emiliano Insua
Mikel San Jose
Ronald Huth
Daniel Ayala
Nabil El Zhar
Jay Spearing
Daniel Pacheco
Krisztian Nemeth
Ryan Flynn

Subs

Gerardo Bruna
Peter Gulacsi
Damien Plessis
Martin Kelly
Andras Simon

Tusky

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

We do if Alonso is sold!

Yes. But if we are selling Alonso we should be looking at better players than Cattermole.

Mr Alan

that johnson lad at City is still bein linked with us a lot, looks decent anytime i've seen him.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Insua looking lively. Pitch is a bit of a mess.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Nemeth takes a tough ball down, shrugs off two defenders and scores again, 8 goals in 9 reserve games, not too shoddy.

mayordenis

i reckon if none of plessis, anderson, nemeth, san jose, el zhar, insua get a decent run next year there probably no point in us having a youth system,

nemeth just scored, good goal,

hamill still on loan yea?

Thanx 4 The Fish

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/hammill/

He is out at southampton.

Tusky

What happened to Bruno ? Wasnt he supposed to be a great talent ? Havent seen or heard much of him since he joined.