Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Skittlebrau

We're playing way too many long balls. None of which have really caused Birmingham any problems.

Birmingham look like they just came to defend. Reina hasn't touched the ball yet.

This is the sort of game I hate watching. We'll have all the play and struggle to break them down.

I'd bring on Torres for Mascherano now and play 3 up front. Gerrard could boss this midfield on his own in his sleep.

Dirk Gently

Thanks rebel, thats the stream I usually use but I did once get a stream with perfect quality full screen picture. of course I never saved the site and usually end up chasing the dragon every week before I fall back on oul livefooty doctor.

Skittlebrau

Pretty dire first half. Riise has probably been our best player but that's not saying much.

Rafa needs to make changes. This has frustrating 0-0 draw written all over it.

~Rebel~

anyone have any links for stream now? That livefooty doctor one isnt working for me anymore.

Daemonic

Nope, gave up on the streams and I'm listening to it on LFC.tv....and even listening is frustrating:mad:

mike65

Pityful. Benitez has to learn, play your best 11.

Mike.

Skittlebrau

Dammit!! Wonderful overhead kick from Torres. Just over.

This is getting painful.

NotWormBoy

mike65 wrote:

Pityful. Benitez has to learn, play your best 11.

Mike.

You'd wonder... its not as if he hasn't had ample opportunity to learn this in the last two years.

StickyMcGinty

good god.... cant score against birmingham at home, nightmare. our good start to the season doesnt seem as good now, arsenal thumping derby so we're already 5 points clear

Davei141

Same ****e different season...

"i feel we controlled the game and created chances...but the goal keeper was man of the match..blah blah blah"

Sizzler

Best fans in the world eh...but they sure like to boo :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

The really depressing thing is that from an attacking sense that was pretty much our strongest team with the exception of Torres for either Kuyt or Voronin, who, lets face it, should be more then enough as a partnership against Brum at home.

<edit> got the last 20mins with livefooty again - really woeful finish, something just looks...wrong..

Skittlebrau

I'm trying to come up with a positive from that game and the only one I can think of is that at least we didn't concede a peno.

We were terrible. Birmingham just put every man behind the ball and we had nothing. Would have like to have had Yossi on the bench to try and create something.

Not one Liverpool player stood out for me.

machiavellianme

Redknapp is right. Rafa really hasnt a clue how to mount a premiership campaign.

Everyone can see this rotation muck isnt working. Spending millions on star strikers to have him resting cosy on the bench doesnt win premierships.

~Rebel~

Skittlebrau wrote:

I'm trying to come up with a positive from that game and the only one I can think of is that at least we didn't concede a peno.

We were terrible. Birmingham just put every man behind the ball and we had nothing. Would have like to have had Yossi on the bench to try and create something.

Not one Liverpool player stood out for me.

One positive is your still at the top, a point ahead of me, on both TIA and Boards.ie FantasyRafa leagues!

Damn international break fkin up our momentum we were actually looking incisive before that..

Ardent

Benitez commits football suicide for the second week in a row. What's so hard about playing your best team? I doubt we'll ever win the league under tinkerman.

Kuyt, Riise and Babel should be perma-benched.

el rabitos

el rabitos wrote:

'd like to see the team come out screaming against birmingham and kill them tbh. i expect nothing but a convincing victory, none of this letting some ****hawk keeper have the game of his life against us that always seems to happen when we play birmingham or derby or whatever relegation/midtable fodder we play. thats about all that would restore some faith.

i told me so.

why why why does he INSIST on leaving the best possible starters on the bench??

23 year old torres ffs, he can play 2 games a week!

i give up. dont want to be a drama queen but i give up. i really doubt we're going to win the premiership with this constant inability to learn from mistakes, you can tell what the bleedin result will be against teams like birmingham before the match even happens.

its getting to the point it did with houllier, like running into a brick wall, not learning from mistakes, not able to push on to the next level. again, not good enough, that feels like a loss.

~Rebel~

machiavellianme wrote:

Redknapp is right. Rafa really hasnt a clue how to mount a premiership campaign.

Everyone can see this rotation muck isnt working. Spending millions on star strikers to have him resting cosy on the bench doesnt win premierships.

thats all well and good but that was our full team except for Torres that we had out there. We weren't even creating the chances -At Home To Birmingham! - which is most worrying. Kuyt and Voronin are 2 quality players, its not like we had Ali Dia up front.

PHB

In all fairness, it wasn't a very weak team. It was close to Liverpools best team bar I'd really love to know why he left out Torres though? To rest him for the Carling Cup?

Necronomicon

Well, Rafa had to leave out at least one star, otherwise he wouldn't get his rotation fix.

Ardent

~Rebel~ wrote:

thats all well and good but that was our full team except for Torres that we had out there. We weren't even creating the chances -At Home To Birmingham! - which is most worrying. Kuyt and Voronin are 2 quality players, its not like we had Ali Dia up front.

Disagree. Our strongest team has Finnan, Crouch and Torres on. Kuyt is a rubblish player, lets not delude ourselves. The jury's still out on Voronin.

~Rebel~

Ardent wrote:

Disagree. Our strongest team has Finnan, Crouch and Torres on. Kuyt is a rubblish player, lets not delude ourselves. The jury's still out on Voronin.

On Finnan, having Finnan or Arbeloa is much of a muchness, our defence was never in any trouble today so resting Finnan was never going to be a problem. We had no problems defensively, only in attack (and Arbeloa on the right is just as good as Finnan at going forward).

Crouch has been rubbish this season, absolutely rubbish. He's done basically nothing to deserve a place this year. When he's on form, yes hes good, but hes really not on form. His heading seems to have gotten even worse. Id play Kuyt before him every day of the week.

Skittlebrau

Ardent wrote:

Disagree. Our strongest team has Finnan, Crouch and Torres on. Kuyt is a rubblish player, lets not delude ourselves. The jury's still out on Voronin.

No way is Crouch in our strongest team. And Finnan wasn't necessary today at all. Birmingham hardly ventured into our half let alone created anything.

Torres should have started, that's about it.

We still should have been able to win comfortably with the team we had out.

machiavellianme

Ardent wrote:

Disagree. Our strongest team has Finnan, Crouch and Torres on. Kuyt is a rubblish player, lets not delude ourselves. The jury's still out on Voronin.

I'll have to agree. Kuyt is rubbish. For all his running and supposed workload, wheres the end product. Very few goals or assists. Crouch is just as bad though. Far too many wasted chances and way too clumsy. Having a good football brain doesnt cut the mustard if he cant score goals. Its time we splash out on quality wingers and play them till they can play no more. Resting players for what might happen at the end of the season is nonsense, especially if the seasons long finished.

Ardent

Let me clarify - I would have had Finnan on and Arbeloa over on the left in place of Riise. Riise is muck.

Of our forwards, the only decent one we have is Torres. Of the rest, I'd rate Crouch as the best. He's only had one league start this season (admittedly he was cack last weekend) and it's hard when you're not getting games.

For me, the strongest team today would have been:

Reina
Finna-Carra-Hyppia-Arbeloa
Pennant-Gerrard-Macher-Babel
Torres-Crouch

We have yet to see the Torres-Crouch partnership.

Skittlebrau

~Rebel~ wrote:

One positive is your still at the top, a point ahead of me, on both TIA and Boards.ie FantasyRafa leagues!

Still missing that elusive 11/11 though. I want a T-Shirt!!

Next game is going to be nigh on impossible to predict.

~Rebel~

Just listening to the todayfm phone in. Some idiot shting on about Gerrard having to play in the middle for the team to be a success. Obviously doesnt pay much attention when he's watched Pool this year.

IMO the rotation argument is just covering up the real issue here. We weren't incisive enough, we weren't creating chances, we weren't imposing the ability of our players on Brum. What would be the differenece in having Torres up there? He can make something from nothing yes, but that in inself only papers over the cracks as well, sure how many times have we complained about needing Gerrard to bail us out? That would be the same. We need the Team to be able to work through oppositions who park the bus without needing something incredible from one man.

Skittlebrau

Riise was better than Babel today. Easy to look halfway decent in such a mediocre performance I know though.

For all the criticism of Kuyt I think he links up the best with Torres so if Torres is going to be number one then Kuyt has to be number two.

Ardent

machiavellianme wrote:

Resting players for what might happen at the end of the season is nonsense, especially if the seasons long finished.

Spot on. Also, why rest a player with a long term view of the season when that player could easily get injured at any point and miss the rest of the season?

Benitez takes this rotation lark way too far. I mean who are we playing mid next week? Reading in the Carling f*cking Cup???

~Rebel~

Skittlebrau wrote:

Riise was better than Babel today. Easy to look halfway decent in such a mediocre performance I know though.

For all the criticism of Kuyt I think he links up the best with Torres so if Torres is going to be number one then Kuyt has to be number two.

I agree with that actually, Kuyt's best work (along with sheer workrate) is keeping posession and making clever passes for people. Definately we would have been an improved team today with those 2 up front. Still incredibly annoyed the more then capable 11 out there today couldnt get the job done. Would like to see Benayoun in for another go.

Ardent

~Rebel~ wrote:

We weren't incisive enough, we weren't creating chances, we weren't imposing the ability of our players on Brum. What would be the differenece in having Torres up there?

In fairness, there were plenty of balls near or at Kuyt's feet today that Torres would have killed Birmingham with. Kuyt is too ponderous and technically limited. That's the difference.

machiavellianme

~Rebel~ wrote:

I agree with that actually, Kuyt's best work (along with sheer workrate) is keeping posession and making clever passes for people.

Is that not a midfielders job? Stevie G(one missing) or Babel or Pennant should be making those passes, not Kuyt. He should be hovering around the edge of the box with one thing on his mind...pulling the trigger the second a ball comes close and not scheming about who he can pass it to so he doesnt have to deal with missing

Daemonic

Wouldn't mind seeing Kuyt replaced with Yossi for a game or 2. He has the imagination that Liverpool so sadly lacked today. 11 players with not an idea between them

mike65

Torrres won't have played a full game for Liverpool in weeks!

Gerrard has gone missing again, Rafa dropped him for a couple of matches and it seems he's pissed off.

Mike.

~Rebel~

machiavellianme wrote:

Is that not a midfielders job? Stevie G(one missing) or Babel or Pennant should be making those passes, not Kuyt. He should be hovering around the edge of the box with one thing on his mind...pulling the trigger the second a ball comes close and not scheming about who he can pass it to so he doesnt have to deal with missing

That has always always been one of the second strikers roles. Receiving the ball with back to goal deep in the opponants half, keeping posession and passing to either the lead striker or the onrushing midfielders, and thats a job that Kuyt does well.

mike65

Somehow we're still second in the table!

The bench was another concern for me, no Lucas, no Aurelio, no Yossi. No creative options. The game against Reading better be a belter

Mike.

Peyton Manning

For Pool fans - does anybody know why Rafa rotates so much? And is his constant rotation inevitably holding Liverpool back from their full potential?

jesus_thats_gre

Archimedes wrote:

For Pool fans - does anybody know why Rafa rotates so much? And is his constant rotation inevitably holding Liverpool back from their full potential?

No idea and yes. Rotation has obvious benefits towards the end of the season but drastic overhauls of the of the starting eleven for every match is just too much. Chaging 1/2 players is harmless. Changing 5 every match is just ****ed.

mike65

Did he do this at Valencia? Or is it just a reflex action caused by the first year in charge when Liverpool had a slew of 1st team players injured for weeks/months on end?

Mike.

zing

Archimedes wrote:

For Pool fans - does anybody know why Rafa rotates so much? And is his constant rotation inevitably holding Liverpool back from their full potential?

Here's an interesting read on the subject:
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2007/aug/8/NG156624070808-1304.htm
That would suggest that he rotates the same as others but it just seems to be hyped up with Rafa - maybe that stems from how long he first went without naming the same starting 11 twice in a row.

That team today should have been capable of doing the job - B'ham did park the bus for quite a long period but that 11 should have been able to break them down at least once. And I'd say once would have been enough to undermine their confidence enough to maybe get a second or third. I though we did miss Finnan a bit though - his delivery into the box/assists is far far better than Arbeloa's.

Seriously thinking about sticking a few quid on Reading now 8-1 for Reading to nick it 1-0.

d22ontour

Sometimes i find pool fans to be baffling at times.A great start made but it's still not enough to satisfy them ... In previous years it wouldn't be unusual to see them conceding the title within 10 games or so but now they have a squad capable of challenging and are hardly light years behind but still it's doom and gloom.No team can win every week but pool fans seem to expect it at times ? Why ? 5 years ago everyone ' pool fans included ' would laugh at the chances of Liverpool winning the league but now they have the chance to do so and 3 points are expected every game ... If only football worked out that way , eh ?

Daemonic

The disappointment with the last 3 games is more about the performance than the results really. The lack of imagination and inability to pass the ball more than 2 or 3 times before its given away cheaply would be cause for concern against better teams. So not all doom and gloom, just concern at the, frankly piss poor, performances.

~Rebel~

d22ontour wrote:

Sometimes i find pool fans to be baffling at times.A great start made but it's still not enough to satisfy them ... In previous years it wouldn't be unusual to see them conceding the title within 10 games or so but now they have a squad capable of challenging and are hardly light years behind but still it's doom and gloom.No team can win every week but pool fans seem to expect it at times ? Why ? 5 years ago everyone ' pool fans included ' would laugh at the chances of Liverpool winning the league but now they have the chance to do so and 3 points are expected every game ... If only football worked out that way , eh ?

First off you should really have a "some" in front of the "pool fans to be baffling at times" comment as we're all special individual snowflakes We do all have different opinions on plenty of stuff about the club though.

I know what your saying and yes it probably is a bit more doom and gloom then it should be, but at the same time thats probably Because we end up surrendering the title hopes within the first few weeks and we really dont want to see that happen again after hopes have risen for a genuine push.

Its just frustrating though, before the international break we were doing great stuff, beating villa, all but beating Chelsea, comfortably easing past Toulouse to get into the champs league with 2 wins, beating Sunderland and destroying Derby with 6goals. Then we have the break and since then Draw with Pompy with a poor team out, draw with Porto with the best team available out (and an absolutely terrible terrible performance) and draw at home to Brum with a very strong team out. Can just see the old form and mistakes cropping up with the new team.

Im sure you'd find fans of Man U, Chelsea or Arsenal all being very pissed off to be having a scoreless draw with Brum at home as well.

Zapp Brannigan

Really feels like a loss today. Birmingham are a team we really should be destroying on our way to the title. Instead we get a pathetic performance...again! Where was Gerrard?

jesus_thats_gre

mike65 wrote:

Did he do this at Valencia? Or is it just a reflex action caused by the first year in charge when Liverpool had a slew of 1st team players injured for weeks/months on end?

He done it at Valencia iirc.

KdjaCL

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

Really feels like a loss today. Birmingham are a team we really should be destroying on our way to the title. Instead we get a pathetic performance...again! Where was Gerrard?

When was the last time you beat this team?


kdjac

~Rebel~

7-0 in the FA cup the year before last.

In the premiership, not since Houllier.

d22ontour

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

Birmingham are a team we really should be destroying on our way to the title.

This is what i was talking about. The expectancy is there with a team that i feel is possible to actually challenge in some way but liverpool fans are somewhat deluded by the actual way they play .There are only 2 teams in England who actually play football in the attacking sense and liverpool will never progress to that lvl.Pass and move in the 80's meant the goalkeeper holding the ball for 20 minutes. /yawn. Is it a coincidence Liverpool declined from the backpass rule being abolished ? Nah it was a Scot who got rid of irish hanger ons who were past it ???? Omg we can't waste 1/4 of a match with negative tactics .... Zomfg teh haxxorz have denied us all we were ever good at... Total footbal ? Lfmao @ scousers who think you ever played the game positively...

copacetic

just turning from being half a troll to an all out troll, nice.

~Rebel~

copacetic wrote:

just turning from being half a troll to an all out troll, nice.

yeah, caught me by surprise! The first one i thought was a potential decent point so i went and wrote a thought out reply to be greated by;

Zomfg teh haxxorz have denied us all we were ever good at... Total footbal ? Lfmao @ scousers who think you ever played the game positively...

in return. Ah well...