Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

jesus_thats_gre

Happy days. Extremely tense affair!

Guy:Incognito

Orizio wrote: »

You really can't prove such a claim and hard work alone is not enough. What of goals and skill?

For a start he's playign on the wing, not up front, Rafa is not counting on him scoring like a striker.

He's stopping plenty of attacks that could easily lead to goals and plenty is goign through him on te way up. Assist tonight on Babel's goal too.

opr

Long shot.

Ok emotion night and i have been on a high watching some of the youtube stuff and other things liverpool related.

Does anyone remember a poem that was posted the first time Liverpool played milan. It was real rousing stuff that left a lump in the throat.I have searched for ages with no luck.

Just thought i would ask incase anyone has it or remembers it.

Great great night

Opr

stick-dan

A magical night and a great one at that for liverpool fans worldwide.

The match was extremely open with respect from a neutrals point of view. Both side opted to attack from the beginning and a defensive lapse from liverpool saw arsenal take the lead and rightly so for the pressure they put us under in the initial stages. Then on the flip side a few minutes later and some vastly improved liverpool passing later we were back level after one of the rare contributions, from Mr Gerrard who was largely anonymous in the first half, a beautiful corner was met by Sami who using his experience lost his marker and headed home a goal worthy of any quarter final.

The second half saw a different side of liverpool reenter the pitch to finish the game. Liverpool bossed the second half and contrary to some commentators beliefs the second half bossing by liverpool of arsenal merited the result. The man of the hour fernando torres scored what was an absolute cracker after he cleverly left senderos for a fool and shot home to put liverpool 2 - 1 up.

Arsenal reintroduced themselves to the game through a goal that was definitely more about the assist than the actual goal. Theo Walcott showed some proper quality when he honestly made liverpool look like a sunday league team. Walcott made a devasting run and provided Adebayour with the cross that left him with nothing to do but place the ball in the net. All fans should appreciate walcotts contribution to this goal.

Two minutes later An electric babel sprung into action plowing into the box making bits of kolo toure and forced the penalty. Steven gerrard then after becoming involved immensely in the game since moving in centre due to babels introduction. Gerrard stepped up and took a penalty which although was guessed correctly by the arsenal goalkeeper was placed perfectly into the corner as to make it unreachable.

This seemed to knock the wind out of arsenal's sails and then the game was rounded up by marcus babel who got a well deserved goal for his dazzling contribution on the 90th minute.

An outstanding game, Thoroughly enjoyed it, possibly has made anfield our fortress again as it had been a tad dodgy during the season and provides great confidence when stepping into yet another semi-final with Chelsea.

Melion

3 words are all thats needed

OH MY GOD!!!

My heart barely took tonight. I nearly broke a chair celebrating the 3rd goal. My girlfriend and mate were afraid for their safety. Ill give my full view on the match tomorrow but for now..............

Told ya so

Mr Alan

you're lucky melion, when Arsenals second went in, i was sharpening my axe!

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

you're lucky melion, when Arsenals second went in, i was sharpening my axe!

So was i

Orizio

Stekelly wrote: »

For a start he's playign on the wing, not up front, Rafa is not counting on him scoring like a striker.

He's stopping plenty of attacks that could easily lead to goals and plenty is goign through him on te way up. Assist tonight on Babel's goal too.

While its true that he is playing out of position, he is still expected to ship in with more then a few from midfield, like Gerrard does. Moreover, his primary purpose is to set up attacks, not stop them. He is a striker playing on the wing, not a holding midfielder.

And while his workrate is undeniable, the whole of the team worked their socks off tonight. I'm not sure why he should come in for more attention then someone like Mascherano or Carragher for example.

An honest question - do people honestly want Kuyt playing anywhere on the Liverpool team next year?

mayordenis

Orizio wrote: »

While its true that he is playing out of position, he is still expected to ship in with more then a few from midfield, like Gerrard does. Moreover, his primary purpose is to set up attacks, not stop them. He is a striker playing on the wing, not a holding midfielder.

And while his workrate is undeniable, the whole of the team worked their socks off tonight. I'm not sure why he should come in for more attention then someone like Mascherano or Carragher for example.

An honest question - do people honestly want Kuyt playing anywhere on the Liverpool team next year?

so what he's our third highest scorer after torres and gerrard?

Guy:Incognito

Orizio wrote: »

While its true that he is playing out of position, he is still expected to ship in with more then a few from midfield, like Gerrard does. Moreover, his primary purpose is to set up attacks, not stop them. He is a striker playing on the wing, not a holding midfielder.

Are you Rafa? Cos he seem sperfectly happy with him. He's chipped in with soem goals. Gerrard is far and away our top scorign midfielder, why not compare Kuyt to the rest of them instead?

I'm perfectly happy to see him keep his placce as long as he keeps his performances levels up.

Orizio

mayordenis wrote: »

so what he's our third highest scorer after torres and gerrard?

He is joint third with Babel I think in the CL. But your only proving my point that he doesn't score as much as Gerrard, who also plays as an attacking midfielder.

An answer to my question?

Guy:Incognito

Orizio wrote: »

He is joint third with Babel I think in the CL. But your only proving my point that he doesn't score as much as Gerrard, who also plays as an attacking midfielder.

An answer to my question?

Theres a huge number of midfielders that dont score as many as Gerrard, are they all crap? As it happens, Gerrard has more league goals than Drogba, and he plays up front. What a useless player.

Melion

Are people really slagging off our players after tonight?

Mr Alan

Orizio wrote: »

An honest question - do people honestly want Kuyt playing anywhere on the Liverpool team next year?

yes.

Melion, always people like that on here after big games. its why i try to usually avoid the place.

Orizio

Cos he seem sperfectly happy with him

How you could possibly know that?

He's chipped in with soem goals. Gerrard is far and away our top scorign midfielder, why not compare Kuyt to the rest of them instead?

I've compared him too Gerrard and Babel in the CL, and I doubt he compares anymore favourably to them in the PL. Mascherano and Alonso are holding midfielders.

I'm perfectly happy to see him keep his placce as long as he keeps his performances levels up.

Very well. I'd prefer an actual winger, a better crosser and someone capable of going past players but maybe I'm crazy.

Orizio

Melion wrote: »

Are people really slagging off our players after tonight?

No. Kuyt had a fine game tonight, as did the whole of the team.

Melion

Orizio wrote: »

How you could possibly know that?

Because despite the fact he has 3-4 natural right wingers in the squad he persists in playing Kuyt out there?

Guy:Incognito

Orizio wrote: »

How you could possibly know that?

.

It's fairly simple really, he's in Rafa's 1st choice 11.

redspider

Liverpool 4-2 Arsenal (CL qrtr, 2nd leg) (5-3 agg)

A good result for Liverpool on the night AND deserved. But it wasnt plain sailing and things were nip and tuck towards the end. But it was yet another one of those unforgetable nights at Anfield, and yet another roller-coaster one as well, with the match swinging from one team to the other.

The first bit of big news of the night was Rafa's selection and 4-4-2 formation, and the inclusion of Crouch:

---

Reina

---

Carra - Skrtel - Hyypia - Aurelio
Kuyt - Masch - Alonso - Gerrard
---- Crouch --- Torres

---

I have to say it was an unusual choice and it put us in trouble in several ways right from the start, imo. Gerrard has been much happier and productive in the centre in a 4-2-3-1 and I think his performance on the night demonstrated once again that it is a waste to put him out there. Rafa kept with Carra at right back, a situation which I am not happy with either as I'd prefer to see him in the centre.

Liverpool started okay I thought. Diaby's goal was a half-chance that Reina should have been able to save. It was more or less straight at him and he failed to save it at the near-post, the ball going in off his knee. That is basic goalkeeping. If there is one thing which Rafa should take-away from the last 4 matches, its that Reina is not good enough as a keeper. I think we need a new one.

It was good to see Hyypia get on the scoresheet. Also, it being from a corner where the man-marking system (ironically Souness was on about zonal beforehand) failed with a simple run away then run forward at the last moment by Hyypia. Mind you, it wasnt against the best defender in the world as in Senderos.

BTW, was it just me or did Giles come across very biased tonight in terms of Arsenal? He bleated on about them constantly. I know he doesnt like Liverpool from his Leeds days, and he likes Arsenal's passing game, him being a passer himself in his day, but his commentary tonight was way over the top I thought. He was only commentating as Liam was in Dublin (Ireland press conference) but he was even more biased than Liam would be, who is usually quite fair despite his involvement in Arsenal.

Next came the goal from Torres. He was having a quiet night and couldnt get through, finding himself out very wide and sharing the front role with Crouch, but all he needs is half a yard, and I half expected him to get a goal. He finished it superbly and he is a class finisher.

After that, Arsenal upped their risk-taking leaving fewer players at the back. We should have exploited that better on a number of occasions to kill off the game when on the break, we had a 3 on 2, but we didnt capitalise.

Arsenal did get a goal which to me looked as if it had won the game. Walcott, well we know he has pace, got on a good run. It was after Liverpool had the ball at their end and Carra was quite far forward, as was Masch. It was a break down the middle, and player after player failed to catch Walcott. It was a tactical mistake by Liverpool perhaps being too far forweard and getting sucked in, but overall a good goal by Arsenal.

But before we had time to absorb that goal and the mountain to climb, Babel was down in the box and it was a penalty! I thought the decision was harsh. Toure did run across the back of Babel but these are not often given. I think given the angle that Babel was running, ie: straight towards goal and just 12 yards out, made up the ref's mind. Liverpool also had a good shout earlier with Kuyt, and that wasnt given, and that evened up the Hleb one fom the 1st leg.

Stevie G did well to slot home that pressure spot-kick. I thought he would take it. I had confidence in him, so it was good to see it fly into the corner. If that hadnt gone in we would be out and Arsenal through, so it was that tight.

The Babel goal at the end was just icing on the cake. Arsenal's heads were down at that stage and fresh-legged Babel could easily outrun Arsenal's last "defender", Fabregas.

So, a good night for Liverpool, which now sets us up with Chelsea, for the 3rd time in 4 years. They are sick of us. The good news from a Liverpool perspective is that they didnt put away Fenerbahce that easily, they may be missing Cech and they will be missing Essien. Also, with only 4th to aim for in the league, we should be able to optimise the team selection for the CL, as we are playing Fulham, etc. I think we have nothing to fear at this stage against Chelsea in the CL.

Redspider

Tusky

Orizio wrote: »

While its true that he is playing out of position, he is still expected to ship in with more then a few from midfield, like Gerrard does. Moreover, his primary purpose is to set up attacks, not stop them. He is a striker playing on the wing, not a holding midfielder.

And while his workrate is undeniable, the whole of the team worked their socks off tonight. I'm not sure why he should come in for more attention then someone like Mascherano or Carragher for example.

An honest question - do people honestly want Kuyt playing anywhere on the Liverpool team next year?

He has been poor for most of the season. In the last 9 games he has scored 4 and got about 3 assists and 2 mom awards from the wing. So at the moment, I am more than happy with him. Can be improved upon next year though.

Orizio

Melion wrote: »

Because despite the fact he has 3-4 natural right wingers in the squad he persists in playing Kuyt out there?

Kuyt is undoubtedly better then the likes of Pennant and Benayoun, but that doesn't mean Kuyt won't be sold off in the summer, nor does it mean that Liverpool would be better off with a natural winger of CL quality.

Orizio

Stekelly wrote: »

It's fairly simple really, he's in Rafa's 1st choice 11.

No its not that simple. He wouldn't be the first player to get regular play under Rafa only to be sold off.

kinaldo

Well done to Liverpool tonight. Great game of football that was. I feel sorry for Arsenal, Walcott and Wenger and I really hope we don't lose Brady on RTE. I hope Barcelona go on to win the competition but if it has to be an English team then I hope it's you guys.

Mr Alan

top man kinaldo

Guy:Incognito

redspider wrote: »

If there is one thing which Rafa should take-away from the last 4 matches, its that Reina is not good enough as a keeper. I think we need a new one.

Really disagree with this. He's on a bad run of form, he'll play his way out of it. I challange you to name any player thats never been off form.

redzerdrog

wenger not happy with fabregas defending for the last goal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSfyWbg0JV4&feature=related

redspider

stick-dan wrote: »

arsenal take the lead and rightly so for the pressure they put us under in the initial stages.

Liverpool bossed the second half and contrary to some commentators beliefs the second half bossing by liverpool of arsenal merited the result.

... rounded up by marcus babel

I didnt think Arsenal thoroughly deserved their 1st goal at that point in the game. They hadnt really threatened us that much up to that point, so for me, Arsenal got that goal before they really deserved one, if you know what I mean - ie: it was flattering.

Yes, I agree with you that it was Liverpool in control for vast swathes of the match, and our 16 attempts at goal to their 10 confirms that overall for the match it was more Liverpool. This was a deserved result and Arsenal fans cant really quibble about it.

Btw, its Ryan Babel, not Markus Babel. Markus left us some time ago .....

Redspider

Mr Alan

redspider wrote: »

I have to say it was an unusual choice and it put us in trouble in several ways right from the start, imo. Gerrard has been much happier and productive in the centre in a 4-2-3-1 and I think his performance on the night demonstrated once again that it is a waste to put him out there. Rafa kept with Carra at right back, a situation which I am not happy with either as I'd prefer to see him in the centre.

Please tell this is not a criticism of Rafa tonight?
He played another blinder tactically, like he usually does on the big stage. You'd prefer Carra at centre half? and Gerrard in the middle?
WE JUST BEAT ARSENAL 5-3 IN THE QF OF THE CL?!!? are you taking the piss?

Gerrard was just having a poor game tonight, his position was nowt to do with it, he was in pretty much a free role anyway-where he is at his best, granted he spent a bit longer out on the left than usual, but that shouldnt affect his performance. admitted himself he just had a mare. if he was in the middle we'd have been ****ed i reckon.

Carra in the middle? who would you have dropped? skrtl? the lad has been class since he arrived (exception of the havant game) he is tall and quick and hard as nails, as well as quite composed on the ball.

Hypia scored a brilliant header and bossed the defence most of the evening.

both are good shouts for MOM and you'd have prefered one of em dropped because you prefer Carra in the middle?! mystifying tbh

redspider wrote: »

If there is one thing which Rafa should take-away from the last 4 matches, its that Reina is not good enough as a keeper. I think we need a new one.

please tell me this is a joke? If you are for real, you are about the most mental poster on here.

he is the best goalie we have had for decades! cracking goalie. really brilliant, the best in the league imo. golden gloves in his first two seasons in the PL. setting all sorts of clean sheet records (granted the defence is a big part of that, but equally so is Reina).

all goalies make mistakes, whats important is how they bounce back from them-Reina is strong as an ox, mentality wise.

and he is a little mental, which all great goalies should be

PHB

Mr. Alan, you did concede twice, and could have concedded more. Defending on the whole wasn't that good. Rafa got the attacking tactics spot on imo in this match, but defensively you guys were poor. Concedding twice at home really doesn't warrent either of the CB's getting close to MOM, who imo was either Torres or Carragher.

Skertle looks like a great prospect, I said it myself, but he wasn't great tonight, at fault for the first goal. Hyypia scored a fantastic goal, but wasn't great either. Carragher put in a great performance as RB, but if he had played CB, you'd have been much more assured.

Is Agger going to be back against Chelsea? If not, I think you'd really want to get Finnan back our RB, and Carragher back in the centre with Skertle.

redspider

re Reina

Stekelly wrote: »

Really disagree with this. He's on a bad run of form, he'll play his way out of it. I challange you to name any player thats never been off form.

The only thing is that a bad run of form for a keeper is disasterous, and it is a major bad run of form. eg:

Man Utd 3-0 Liverpool (Reina at fault for the 1st 2!)
I also think he was partially to blame for Arsenal's two goals in the 1-1 matches - he didnt even dive.
And tonight for the 1st.

Lets face it, he's not as safe as houses and for us to attempt to win the league we need that. He is a good penalty stopper and can make good saves at times, but there are a whole slew of things wrong with his game which are basic in terms of goalkeeping, such as crosses. I don't think these problems are just 'bad form', but are more to do with behaviours that he has somehow picked up wrong.

Can he be fixed? Maybe. McGeady's improvement and other examples show that players can make giant strides at any stage of their career. Will he? I dont think so.

We are short in depth in the goalie position. Itandje doesnt cut it. Carson if he comes back may do so, although he has his faults. I think we at least need another good keeper in place, but Reina is 'the chosen one' at the moment and to me he has flaws ..... and sufficient flaws to hold us back.

redspider

Mr Alan

well see thats where i differ tbh, i thought that Alonso should have tracked Diabys run and Reina should have done better for the first, and the second was just class, the nature of the game meant there would always be goals scored. Hypia and Skrtle bossed the **** out of Chelsea at Stamford bridge not long ago if i'm not mistaken, there wont be many goals in those games, unlike when we play arsenal, there is always goals.

and by the way, Mascherano or Kuyt MOM for me

raven136

redspider wrote: »

re Reina



The only thing is that a bad run of form for a keeper is disasterous, and it is a major bad run of form. eg:

Man Utd 3-0 Liverpool (Reina at fault for the 1st 2!)
I also think he was partially to blame for Arsenal's two goals in the 1-1 matches - he didnt even dive.
And tonight for the 1st.

Lets face it, he's not as safe as houses and for us to attempt to win the league we need that. He is a good penalty stopper and can make good saves at times, but there are a whole slew of things wrong with his game which are basic in terms of goalkeeping, such as crosses. I don't think these problems are just 'bad form', but are more to do with behaviours that he has somehow picked up wrong.

Can he be fixed? Maybe. McGeady's improvement and other examples show that players can make giant strides at any stage of their career. Will he? I dont think so.

We are short in depth in the goalie position. Itandje doesnt cut it. Carson if he comes back may do so, although he has his faults. I think we at least need another good keeper in place, but Reina is 'the chosen one' at the moment and to me he has flaws ..... and sufficient flaws to hold us back.

redspider

he just equalled the great Clemence record of clean sheets in 100 games,he leads the golden gloves race,is a penalty master.Exactly why should we get rid of him.Unless someone tells me that Casillas is coming instead then we should keep him.

Malice

What a fantastic match that was! It reminded me a bit of Leverkusen in 2002 - when Litmanen scored we were going through only for Lucio to pop up down the other end for them. Arsenal looked like they were going to destroy us in the first half an hour. Sami's goal seemed to give us belief and I thought the cracker from Torres deserved to settle the tie. The trouble with games like this with the away goals rule and what makes it such compelling viewing is that the destiny of the tie can change dramatically in seconds. Adebayor scored with seven or eight minutes remaining and all of a suddent we were out. Thankfully we didn't have to suffer too long before the penalty swung it back in our favour and Babel applied the icing on the cake with a cool finish right at the end.

gucci

I don't know where really to start. what a game, not exactly the snore fest i had cynically predicted all day

An absolute Epic!

Mascherano and Torres have been such superb additions to the team its fantastic. Was great to see Sami score such a vital goal from a corner, iv been saying it all season with him playing so often we should be trying to get better ball in from corners, he would have 5 or 6 scored!

Critics of Reina is harsh imo, i agree he has made some mistakes regards giving away possession and crosses etc in the last few games, but to say he was at fault for the first is harsh. Yes keepers save shots like that in every game but largely luck plays a part (and we got the luck later with the penalty ) but as is said above, as the options available and statistics show.....hes probably as good as goal keepers get, so no point in changing him!

Torres goal was absolutely fantastic. Babel done very well against a tiring team as did Walcott (his run reminded me of a certain Mickey Owen in world cup versus Argentina) and Stevie G has balls bigger than planet mars to stick away the penalty with such conviction.

So its onwards and upwards from here. the fact we're playing the second leg V chelsea will mean Rafa will have to adjust his tactics once again, but I'm confident we can beat any team over two legs! Especially if we keep getting the breaks like we seem to get in these big euro games :pac::pac:

Cyrus

cannto believe people calling for reinas head,

he has had a shaky few weeks, and confidence is a brittle thing for goalies but i have every confidence he will be back to his brilliant best before the season ends.

i cant even begin to imagine who could replace him, the only 2 are cech (not as solid since the bad injury) and casillas

chances of signing either - nil!

redspider

I was about to post a reply on that Brady v Dunphy thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055271755) but it was locked by PSI so I'll put some comments here.

I didnt see the full clip, only this part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMTGmAZ0k4M

To respond to what people have said in that thread, I think Liam tries very hard to be partisan and impartial. He doesnt of course criticize Arsenal as much as he could perhaps, but from his commentary in the 1st leg he was quite fair and on other occasions he is quite fair.

He also had a long day, being involved with the Irish thing, which was the reason after all why he was in the studio and Giles was at Anfield. By the way, Gilesy was more partisan towards Arsenal, aided by Hamilton, than Liam ever is, far more in fact. It sounded like Johnny was supporting Arsenal on the night.

I dont think it was a huge hissy fit by Liam. I havent seen the footage of what riled him, and Dunphy and Souness didnt stick it to him as badly as they could from what I've seen so far.

I dont think RTE are anti-Liverpool. But certain personnel are at times, Dunphy will stick it into Liverpool whenever he can. He even said in 2005 that he would give up punditry if Liverpool won the CL, which they duly did, but he is not a man of his word. He will even readily admit that. He gets a lot of things wrong, he will readily admit that too. Yet he makes good television. Giles is also anti-Liverpool to a degree which emanates from his days at Leeds when Liverpool were big rivals. But a lot of what Giles says usually makes sense, when not talking about Liverpool.

And as others have said on the locked thread, there are a lot of RTE panelists that are ex-Liverpool, Souness, Whelan, Houghton, etc. O'Herlihy, who is the 'clown' in the pantomime, is I understand a Liverpool fan, and at times is the only person in the studio sticking up for Liverpool, but as his thoughts are rubbished by Dunphy, and to a certain extent Giles, he doesnt do Liverpool's cause any favours. He also sways in with the mood in the studio, which is his job to an extent, as even after 20+ years of watching football, he is NOT an expert.

Redspider

ps: I will get back on the other posts above later ....

Was it just me who heard George Hamilton shouting "OH NO!" when Liverpool were awarded that penalty? :rolleyes:

prendy

fantastic result deserved from a fantastic performance.

a couple of points.

1) any critisism of Reina is way off the mark, he's not playing well at the moment but he's world class and would make most teams in Europe. He'll play his way out of this.

2) Kuyt offered us so many options last night, id like to see how many passes from the 2 CB's and 2 Cm's went to him. He linked up really well with Carra and played him in behind the defence a few times.

3) Torres is unbelievable. Adebayor(sp) missed an absolute sitter and nando gets a half chance from a crouch flick and he burries it. best striker in the league by far.

4) welcome back Mr Alonso. I thought his insight and passing was back near his levels of last season. Okay he might have tracked for the goal but overall his performance was the most improved out of everybody.

5) Babel was just brilliant when he came on, okay it was against a tired defence but he caused serious problems and was the difference in the end.

6) Skyrtle looks like Hyypia, he's good defensively and can play the ball on the ground. Agger might have a fight for the place alongside carra next year.

Finally fair play to Rafa, He got it spot on last night. Arsenal didnt expect the 4-4-2 and crouch caused them problems. Roll on Chelski!!!!!

evil_seed

If flamini hadn't gotten injured i think arsenal may well have won. It wasn't until he went off that Alonso started to get time on the ball. He was having a pretty sh** game up until then. Way too many people here are getting carried away. OK we won but we were played off the pitch and I see this as a worrying sign. I had to laugh at the stats of 51% possession to liverpool.

Cyrus

evil_seed wrote: »

If flamini hadn't gotten injured i think arsenal may well have won. It wasn't until he went off that Alonso started to get time on the ball. He was having a pretty sh** game up until then. Way too many people here are getting carried away. OK we won but we were played off the pitch and I see this as a worrying sign. I had to laugh at the stats of 51% possession to liverpool.

people getting carried away, i wonder why, we just qualified for the CL semi final, jesus enjoy it!

flamini is no world beater either

and why laugh at the stats, they are what they are

stick-dan

redspider wrote: »

Btw, its Ryan Babel, not Markus Babel. Markus left us some time ago .....

Redspider

oopsie

i applaud the attention to detail, but you are quiet right!:D

redspider

I just watched the whole clip, its on the RTE website. Its a video link on the homepage (24 mins).

I dont think there was too much to Liams 'hissy fit' really, and it wasnt a major hissy fit either.

Liam was upset that they had prepared footage of Wenger gesticulating and being animated on the sideline from the 1st leg and other matches, prepared footage that would be shown if Arsenal were knocked out, and Eamon made disparaging comments about him being like John Cleese. But Liam took it as them insulting Wenger, which wasnt the point, it was just an attempt to show that things are going wrong for Arsenal.

All much adoo about not much if you ask me. Wenger, and most Managers get animated during games. Even Dunphy's beloved Ferguson, wasnt he last week giving his hairdryer treatment to Southgate, effing, effing, effing? Dunphy rightly said that Wenger is a good manager and no-one can dispute that really. I'm sure they all made up afterwards in the bar.

Btw,
Dunphy Feb 2008: "I think Chelsea will win the Champions League"
Dunphy Apr 2008: "Chelsea were shocking at Boro. That team is in bad order. They are nothing like the team they were under Mourinho"

Redspider

Vokes

Mr Alan wrote: »

redspider wrote:

I have to say it was an unusual choice and it put us in trouble in several ways right from the start, imo. Gerrard has been much happier and productive in the centre in a 4-2-3-1 and I think his performance on the night demonstrated once again that it is a waste to put him out there. Rafa kept with Carra at right back, a situation which I am not happy with either as I'd prefer to see him in the centre.

Please tell this is not a criticism of Rafa tonight?
He played another blinder tactically, like he usually does on the big stage. You'd prefer Carra at centre half? and Gerrard in the middle?
WE JUST BEAT ARSENAL 5-3 IN THE QF OF THE CL?!!? are you taking the piss?

Al, c'mon now. You have to concede that Rafa tactically failed with the initial starting system of 4-4-2. It lacked any sort of shape, cohesiveness and Gerrard was largely a passenger and left Aurelio badly exposed in the 1st half. It was a strange thing to do after 2-3 months of success with 4-2-3-1, esp. with no true wingers starting, no?

Thankfully, Rafa eventually rectified the issue going back to 4-2-3-1.

ibh

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it just me who heard George Hamilton shouting "OH NO!" when Liverpool were awarded that penalty? :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure it was Giles that shouted it cause i think George was saying something else at the time..

That really p!ssed me off.

raven136

could anyone tell me how many goals pool have scored this season.I t seems to me that scoring 5 over two legs against arsenal should put to bed this rubbish that rafa makes defensive teams.

RE*AC*TOR

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it just me who heard George Hamilton shouting "OH NO!" when Liverpool were awarded that penalty? :rolleyes:

yeah - I heard that too

IrishMike

The-Rigger wrote: »

Babel is good for a goal coming off the bench

Prophetic

IrishMike

redspider wrote: »

Btw,
Dunphy Feb 2008: "I think Chelsea will win the Champions League"
Dunphy Apr 2008: "Chelsea were shocking at Boro. That team is in bad order. They are nothing like the team they were under Mourinho"

Redspider

As a follow up to that he said after the Chelsea highlights that Grant was a
moron and that Chelsea are a shambles.
He changes his opinion more than my girlfriend :rolleyes:

Delighted he got stuck into Brady though as it meant he didnt tear strips out of Liverpool
In the 15 mins analysis after the match they didnt once actually talk about the big turning
point of the match ie Flamini getting injured.
Alonso bossed the game after he went off but before then he didnt get a kick.

The Chessplayer

One of the best european nights. What are people's thoughts on Kuyt? Obviously he's not good enough to play up front, but is he a longterm option on the right?

We need Gerrard in the middle of the park and because of his attacking tendencies we need someone who can direct play from the middle and put in the crunching tackles too. It's a pity Mascherano isn't a bit more comfortable on the ball, because Alonso will probably be gone this summer.

redspider

Mr Alan wrote: »

Please tell this is not a criticism of Rafa tonight?
He played another blinder tactically, like he usually does on the big stage. You'd prefer Carra at centre half? and Gerrard in the middle?
WE JUST BEAT ARSENAL 5-3 IN THE QF OF THE CL?!!? are you taking the piss?

Gerrard was just having a poor game tonight, his position was nowt to do with it, he was in pretty much a free role anyway-where he is at his best, granted he spent a bit longer out on the left than usual, but that shouldnt affect his performance. admitted himself he just had a mare. if he was in the middle we'd have been ****ed i reckon.

Carra in the middle? who would you have dropped? skrtl? the lad has been class since he arrived (exception of the havant game) he is tall and quick and hard as nails, as well as quite composed on the ball.

Hypia scored a brilliant header and bossed the defence most of the evening.

both are good shouts for MOM and you'd have prefered one of em dropped because you prefer Carra in the middle?! mystifying tbh

please tell me this is a joke? If you are for real, you are about the most mental poster on here.

he is the best goalie we have had for decades! cracking goalie. really brilliant, the best in the league imo. golden gloves in his first two seasons in the PL. setting all sorts of clean sheet records (granted the defence is a big part of that, but equally so is Reina).

all goalies make mistakes, whats important is how they bounce back from them-Reina is strong as an ox, mentality wise.

and he is a little mental, which all great goalies should be

Mr.Alan, calling me and Reina mental .... I am in good company, but I wasnt taking the piss and perhaps you were on the piss when you wrote your post! ;-)

In terms of the 4-4-2, you may have noticed that we have been playing 4-2-3-1 lately with personnel in positions that suit their attributes (ie: Gerrard in the centre). By Rafa surprising us fans and Arsenal with a 4-4-2, was it a genius selection - I dont think so, and the facts of how the game played out proves it too, with Arsenal having more of the game when we were in 4-4-2. 4-2-3-1 would have given us more defensive cover. Granted Crouch is a better target man than Torres, but when Arsenal have the ball, Crouch doesnt give much protection. I dont know his sprinting speed but he is not fast.

Yes, I would prefer Carra in the centre. Yes, I would prefer Gerrard in the middle. I think the players themselves would too as would most Liverpool fans.

> WE JUST BEAT ARSENAL 5-3 IN THE QF OF THE CL?!!? are you taking the piss?

Dont forget the story of the two ties. We were fortunate to some extent to get a 1-1 in the 1st leg. And when the 2nd leg was 2-2, we were fortunate to get that penalty. ie: the result could have been much different. The final Babel goal wouldnt have happened if the match was still 2-2. Its not as if we dominated Arsenal, for example if we would have gone 4-0 ahead, and they scored 2 goals at the death. There is a story behind both sets of headline results. The devil is in the detail, as they say.

> Gerrard was just having a poor game tonight, his position was nowt to do with it

His position was everything to do with it. He was being asked to defend, and he is not so good at that these days, and is better utilised going forward, as an attacking midfielder. Not left-sided midfield, where he was out of the game, got little possession, etc. Its clear he doesnt want to play there and you will remember the acres of discussion of this over the last few years about where to play Gerrard. It was like taking a retro-grade decision back in time.

> if he was in the middle we'd have been ****ed i reckon.

No, he would have been far more comfortable, far more effective, with Alonso and Masch behind him. Granted it would only have been himself and Torres attacking, with support from Kuyt and Babel, but Gerrard and Torres are working well together in the centre and they are creating goals. Gerrard in the centre was an obvious choice for me.

> Carra in the middle? who would you have dropped? skrtl?

I would have played Carra and Skrtel as CB's. Hyypia for me just doesnt have the pace, and despite his goal, he rarely gets these, maybe about 1 from every 10 corners. He is 100 times better at corners than Jamie is though, I dont know how good Skrtel is yet. Hyypia is good in the air, and his positional sense is okay. But he can get badly caught for pace which costs us goals.

> Hypia ... bossed the defence most of the evening.
> and you'd have prefered one of em dropped because you prefer Carra in the middle?! mystifying tbh

Hyypia didnt boss the defence. He couldnt get near Walcott on his run and more or less blocked Masch who was chasing him back like a gazelle. Hyypia did okay, he has been doing better this season than last. I think many Liverpool followers are surprised by how well Hyypia has done. But I still think that Carra should play as a CB! And that should not be mystifying to you, as Benitez has done that selection regularly!

> please tell me this is a joke? If you are for real, you are about the most mental poster on here.

No, not a joke.

Dont get me wrong, Reina has some good qualities, but he has frailities which are not just down to form. He is excellent at penalties and that could very well get us past Chelsea in the semi's. I am not calling for his head. I wish he could rectify his faults, maybe go to the Shay Given goalie school, but as a club we need a better goalkeeper IF we are to go to the next level. Reina ships too many goals that are his fault. Far more than van der Sar. Far more than Almunia, far more than Cech. And in this Arsenal trilogy he was culpable in a lot of the goals and more than dfenders, etc. That costs us long-term.

Redspider