Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

KdjaCL

copacetic wrote:

just turning from being half a troll to an all out troll, nice.

gotta love people point out other people are trolls, without actually responding to their point. Does being right make someone a troll?

rebel wrote:

in return. Ah well...

rebel your a troll!!! not gonna answer your post as it contains sense but your a troll!!!!!

jebus wheres millersangel when you need him.


kdjac

copacetic

KdjaCL wrote:

gotta love people point out other people are trolls, without actually responding to their point. Does being right make someone a troll?




rebel your a troll!!! not gonna answer your post as it contains sense but your a troll!!!!!

jebus wheres millersangel when you need him.


kdjac

well we all know you are a trolling wanker as well and always have been, does me being right make it ok to say it?

~Rebel~

KdjaCL wrote:

gotta love people point out other people are trolls, without actually responding to their point. Does being right make someone a troll?




rebel your a troll!!! not gonna answer your post as it contains sense but your a troll!!!!!

jebus wheres millersangel when you need him.


kdjac

who ha? The "in return. ah well..." was really more "and then i was greated with [quote.] in return" "ah well"

ill take the contains sense part as a compliment though, thanks kdjaCL!

We really need to beat Reading midweek to try and kickstart some momentum now. Defence is anyones guess, Hobbs to come in? Aurelio to start? Insua to start? Arbeloa in the center? Or maybe right? Or maybe Darby right?
Midfield im hoping for Momo, Lucas, Leto, Benayoun with El Zhar and Spearing coming in.
Up Front i guess Crouch and Voronin, Lindfield coming in if we're winning, Torres if losing. Though maybe Torres could start with Crouch, to make up for the weakness's elsewhere, if Rafa wants to do something in this competition.

d22ontour

I am a troll so it seems ... Having some of the greatest players the game has ever seen in the 70s and 80's in teams that played dour football makes me a troll ??? Go look at your archives and prove me wrong so.Pass and move involved the great back pass which thankfully was abolished and Liverpool imploded.

Guy:Incognito

This is ****ing ridiculous. The first season we genuinely look to have a chance to have a proper run at the league and Rafa seems dentermined to **** it up. Surely he can see from the last 3 seasons that his rotation ****e doesnt work. He's acting the prick now. If the league is the priority why the hell is he pulling this crap? I'm extremely pissed off after the last couple of weeks. I'm sure he'll roll out the "fresh for the season" lines as usual but who gives a **** about a good run in if we are too far behind for it to matter?

The hoofing is geting ridiculous too. Theres no way the players are taking it on themselves to disobey Rafa and do that so he's obviously happy with the style of play.

I'm starting to seriously question my faith in Rafa at this stage and am wondering if he will ever have what it takes to win the league.

Thought Voronin was poor yesterday, making a lot of poor decisions when in and around the box when we were in positions that should have led to goals

Melion

Jesus christ will you all shut up. Who cares if we didnt beat Birmingham, i dont care if they have just come up, when a team parks 11 men behind the ball its hard to break down, no matter what 11 you pick. Dont forget that B'ham beat us twice in recent years at Anfield in the premiership.

We are a point ahead of United and Chelsea, played the same amount of games. Didnt concede yesterday and still havent conceded from open play.

Everyone saying Rafa doesnt have a clue seriously need to shut up, this is the man who has turned our club around from mediocrity to respected title challengers. Im sure you were all singing his praises 3 weeks ago when we thumped Derby and Sunderland.

Its people like you who make me ashamed to be a red, the majority of you are a disgrace to the club.

Malice

d22ontour wrote:

There are only 2 teams in England who actually play football in the attacking sense

And they are?

d22ontour wrote:

liverpool will never progress to that lvl.

So we played a defensive game against Derby recently did we? :rolleyes:

d22ontour wrote:

Pass and move in the 80's meant the goalkeeper holding the ball for 20 minutes. /yawn.

Not quite 20 minutes but close to it

d22ontour wrote:

Is it a coincidence Liverpool declined from the backpass rule being abolished ? Nah it was a Scot who got rid of irish hanger ons who were past it ????

I'm assuming you mean when Souness became manager. Who are the Irish hangers on? Jim Beglin was gone in 1989, Aldridge is a Scouser, Houghton is Scottish. Maybe you mean Whelan or Staunton? I'd hardly class any of them as hangers-on!

zing

~Rebel~ wrote:

7-0 in the FA cup the year before last.

Didn't we beat them in the CC last year ?

mike65

Lads lets move on eh? This is our thread so best not to feed trolls, part-timers and the willfully ignorant.

As for Reading, well it should'nt be taken any more seriously than any 3rd round league cup game. A mix of squad members, bench warmers and 3/4 first 11 regulars.

---

Reina
Finnan--Hobbs-Carra-Aurelio
Yossi-Lucas-Momo-Leto

---

Crouch-Voronin

Mike

Melion

My starting 11 for Reading would be:

Itandje
Finnan
Aurelio
Hobbs
Carra
El Zhar
Leto
Lucas
Mo
Lindfield
Crouch

RE*AC*TOR

Just going back to yesterday's match. At times I think Rafa is too technical. His decision to play Voronin and Kuyt based on their ability to play between the lines (ie drop back and interact with the midfield) made sense on paper, but in reality he doesn't need to outsmart Birmingham.

At the moment our centre midfield are underperforming. Masch was good tracking back, the odd time it needed to be done, but his passing let him down at times. Gerrard was kind of anonymous again. I was gobsmacked when those useless Setanta commentators declared him man of the match.

Anyway, onwards and upwards, hopefully lessons learned.

Kone

Melion wrote:

Everyone saying Rafa doesnt have a clue seriously need to shut up, this is the man who has turned our club around from mediocrity to respected title challengers. Im sure you were all singing his praises 3 weeks ago when we thumped Derby and Sunderland.

Well said Melion, too many knee-jerkers on here!

In saying that Gerrard has been very quiet lately, I barely noticed that he was on the pitch vs Porto.

~Rebel~

There is a bit of knee jerkness about it but at the same time, its not just a one off. Theres a very marked difference in the way we've played since the International break. 3 games - 3 terrible performances - 3 draws.

Porto we cant put down to rotation as it was our strongest team, with the worst of the performances. Yesterday we cant really say "rotation" imo as there wasnt exactly 5 or 6 changes, just a more attacking fullback and Torres benched (for some reason ill never understand). Just bad football

Its hard to not have a reaction when one bad games turns into two, which turns into three..

Tusky

Very frustrating game. You could really see the difference when Torres came on though. We may well have won if he played 90 mins.

Peyton Manning

Melion wrote:

My starting 11 for Reading would be:

Itandje
Finnan
Aurelio
Hobbs
Carra
El Zhar
Leto
Lucas
Mo
Lindfield
Crouch

You do realise that Reading would be favourites against a team like that?

~Rebel~

Archimedes wrote:

You do realise that Reading would be favourites against a team like that?

Depends on what kind of team Reading put out. Id say Coppell would nearly be happy enough to play a few fringe players with staying in the premiership definately being their biggest concern. Thats what they did last year anyway, though even still they got a draw out of Man U.

mike65

Second season syndrome has kicked in and though yesterdays win will have lifted the pressure a bit I don't see them committing too many first 11 players.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote:

Jesus christ will you all shut up. Who cares if we didnt beat Birmingham, i dont care if they have just come up, when a team parks 11 men behind the ball its hard to break down, no matter what 11 you pick. Dont forget that B'ham beat us twice in recent years at Anfield in the premiership.

We are a point ahead of United and Chelsea, played the same amount of games. Didnt concede yesterday and still havent conceded from open play.

Everyone saying Rafa doesnt have a clue seriously need to shut up, this is the man who has turned our club around from mediocrity to respected title challengers. Im sure you were all singing his praises 3 weeks ago when we thumped Derby and Sunderland.

Its people like you who make me ashamed to be a red, the majority of you are a disgrace to the club.

`
What do you mean turned the club around and into respected title challengers? As far as the league is concerned we are no closer and maybe a bit further off (going on final positions) from mounting anything that looks like a proper title challenge. As much as it pains me to say it, Houllier had us closer to winnign the league at points and its not a reaction to not beating Birmingham. They are a poor side that we played at home, the only result should have been a win. At one stage I actually thought they were going to rob a flukey goal and win it. Thats not a position we should be in. We should also not be in the position we were in at Portsmouth last we.

I think its quite obviouse at this stage the league is a major problem to him,, be it a mental bloke or whatever, but he doesnt look like winning it.

Kone wrote:

Well said Melion, too many knee-jerkers on here!

.

Knee-jerkers? It's going on nearly 4 years now.

Kanney

Was dissapointed with team selection yesterday. I thought Torres was our MOTM when he came on. Shows why he should be playing. He won't play I'd say on Tuesday, but a professional like himself should be ready to play most games.
Voronin played badly and I think it was Kuyt worst performance for Liverpool.

Melion

Right, nobody has said it so i may aswell. Im gonna guess none of you even know it because from what ive read here i imagine most of you to be sunshine fans who know our big players and not much else about the club.

I think the reason we have faltered in the last 3 weeks comes down to one thing, one person released from the club. Pako Ayesteran, it has definitely affected the players morale, im sure its been a big change on the training ground because Pako was pretty much in total control of all that.

Opinions? (on the 2nd paragraph)

mike65

I think a few words on the first para may be in order - that was mighty presumptuos from someone with 209 posts to his name!

On the second, I don't buy it, Pako was obviously important but I refuse to belive professional footballers can get bent out of shape by such a leaving.

He did training and it is belived was in part responsible for the cautious tactical approach Rafa has taken since joining Liverpool (to preserve fitness levels) but ultimatly the man who decides who plays and where, is the boss
and I think its been his oddly-informed input thats at the root of the recent stuttering.

Mike.

copacetic

Melion wrote:

Right, nobody has said it so i may aswell. Im gonna guess none of you even know it because from what ive read here i imagine most of you to be sunshine fans who know our big players and not much else about the club.

you must be kidding? you don't have a clue.

his departure was discussed at length back when it happened.

PHB

I think losing the assistant manager will affect the team in the long term, less fit after pre-season etc. In terms of drawing the matches, it's just the Liverpool we've seen from last year when Ayesteran was there

el rabitos

Melion wrote:

Right, nobody has said it so i may aswell. Im gonna guess none of you even know it because from what ive read here i imagine most of you to be sunshine fans who know our big players and not much else about the club.

I think the reason we have faltered in the last 3 weeks comes down to one thing, one person released from the club. Pako Ayesteran, it has definitely affected the players morale, im sure its been a big change on the training ground because Pako was pretty much in total control of all that.

Opinions? (on the 2nd paragraph)

the ego has landed ay?

he's on "gardening leave", he hasnt been released. yet.

pakos absence is one theory. he was in charge of a large chunk of the fitness aspect of training, that much is well known, but i doubt he would have had such a contribution to the teams gameplan and pattern of play to have it affected so drastically by his absence.

anyway, the problem in the last 3 games was the same problem that was there when pako was there. basically liverpool just plain suck in possesion.

the whole liverpool under benitez gameplan seems to be wait for the opposition to make a mistake and then pounce and punish them. against the weaker teams, and i would count porto in that group, liverpool get too much possesion to the point where we run out of ideas fast when the opposition cant be broken down.

personally i think thats why we rely so much on a random moment of genious from gerrard, or a clever individual goal from someone. i'd love to see a percentage of how many of our goals come from individual strikes, set pieces and build up play. i get the feeling that build up play and set pieces would be low numbers.

i cant remember the last goal that game from a corner. not good enough.

i dont think liverpool fans are asking for alot, people just want to see some sign that when a mistake is made, efforts are being made to change it. we've all see the piss poor results against the likes of birmingham, boro, fulham and the like far too much and little seems to be changing. people will only be patient for so long.

Melion

el rabitos wrote:

people will only be patient for so long.

Pretty much sums up what i thought. True Liverpool fans will wait forever just to see us lift that title again. Someone on the last page said he was ready to give up on the reds. I'm not saying everyone here is like that but from reading a few pages there seems to be an awful lot of people who always seem ready to jump on the bandwagon of bashing Rafa when we draw a few games.

I just cant understand it, we are still unbeaten this season. Looking like we will be challenging right til the end of the season but still people arent happy. We've just had our best start to a league campaign in a long time. Try to focus on that rather than the fact we drew against a team who beat us on their last 2 trips to Anfield in the Premiership.

PHB

lol, I think he means in terms of patience with Rafa

el rabitos

Melion wrote:

Pretty much sums up what i thought. True Liverpool fans will wait forever just to see us lift that title again. Someone on the last page said he was ready to give up on the reds. I'm not saying everyone here is like that but from reading a few pages there seems to be an awful lot of people who always seem ready to jump on the bandwagon of bashing Rafa when we draw a few games.

I just cant understand it, we are still unbeaten this season. Looking like we will be challenging right til the end of the season but still people arent happy. We've just had our best start to a league campaign in a long time. Try to focus on that rather than the fact we drew against a team who beat us on their last 2 trips to Anfield in the Premiership.

its thet fact that they've beaten us on their last 2 trips to anfield that IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

christ id be more worried if we get to the point where people arent pissed off about losing out to these yo yo teams

its not even the result, its the blatent lack of imagination and ideas in the play, we dont even look like scoring at times.

theres such a thing as blind faith, rafa has been afforded alot of patience, and he'll be given alot more i'm sure. but people want progress, 0-0 at home to birmingham is not progress.

~Rebel~

Melion wrote:

Right, nobody has said it so i may aswell. Im gonna guess none of you even know it because from what ive read here i imagine most of you to be sunshine fans who know our big players and not much else about the club.

I think the reason we have faltered in the last 3 weeks comes down to one thing, one person released from the club. Pako Ayesteran, it has definitely affected the players morale, im sure its been a big change on the training ground because Pako was pretty much in total control of all that.

Opinions? (on the 2nd paragraph)

Wow...way to make friends and influence people, fella!

You've obviously not read an awful lot if you haven't seen any posts about Pako.

As has been mentioned already i dont buy that his being released is the cause of the poor form. For one thing, he's been fairly frozen out for quite a while now already with Rafa bringing in new staff to take over Pako's responsibilities, hence the reason Rafa has stated Pako wont be replaced. The problems we're facing now are nothing new, they're the same problems we've had for the past few years. Now, im sure it doesn't exactly help morale, as he was very well thought of by the players, but unless we have a particularly sensitive bunch of players i dont think its the sole cause. Gerrards loss of form is very important imo as with Alonso out most of the creative responsibility has fallen on his shoulders. Masch is a great player but creativity isn't his strong point. We'll see in midweek how Lucas performs against an English team so hopefully he can become another viable option to come in to take the pressure off.

<EDIT>
On that whole "bandwagon jumpers" comment, i wrote a big response to that yesterday, couldnt be arsed reciting it all, but in short its not just bandwagon jumping. Before the break we had 5wins and a draw and great play. After the break we have 3 draws and 3 terrible performances. Thats cause fo a little concern.

Melion

We lost the last 2 times they played at Anfield, we drew 0-0 yesterday. That looks like an improvement and progress to me.

Im not going to go back through all the pages but can someone tell me if you were all giving out about the lack of imagination and ideas in our play when we beat Toulouse, Villa, Sunderland, Derby and hammered Chelsea(feckin ref).

mike65

Maybe Melion has a poster saying In Rafa We Trust somewhere!

i cant remember the last goal that game from a corner. not good enough.

We do suck at them for one simple reason - Gerrard can't take corners and he takes most of them. When Aurelio came on the other night and took one from the left of Portos goal it was well flighted and weighted exactly what Gerrard can't do it seems.

On imagination, Liverpool are grand if everything starts well, first goal and we're flying. its when the team conceeds against defensive opposition or does'nt get an early goal we struggle with the concept of clever play to break down massed resistance.

Mike.

~Rebel~

Melion wrote:

We lost the last 2 times they played at Anfield, we drew 0-0 yesterday. That looks like an improvement and progress to me.

Im not going to go back through all the pages but can someone tell me if you were all giving out about the lack of imagination and ideas in our play when we beat Toulouse, Villa, Sunderland, Derby and hammered Chelsea(feckin ref).

~Rebel~ wrote:

Before the break we had 5wins and a draw and great play. After the break we have 3 draws and 3 terrible performances. Thats cause for a little concern.

Agreed Mike, Gerrard shouldnt be let near corners. i cant believe Rafa hasn't said this to him. Not only does he suck at corners, but he's one of the best headers on the team, as well as one of the ones you most want a breaking ball to fall to.

el rabitos

mike65 wrote:

We do suck at them for one simple reason - Gerrard can't take corners and he takes most of them. When Aurelio came on the other night and took one from the left of Portos goal it was well flighted and weighted exactly what Gerrard can't do it seems.

Mike.

exactly. i mean. it doesnt take a bumper contract to see that gerrard is dangerous with his shooting around the box. why not have him be stationed around the edge of the box for corners for any balls that are badly cleared or bounce out.

his corners beat the first man about 50% of the time, that in itself is dire

Melion

Thank god, i thought i was the only one noticing that about Gerrards corners. The majority of them lately seem to be hitting the first man. As you all said, he should be on the edge of the box ready to take a shot if it does break to him.

HashSlinging

Talking to a couple of people in Liverpool at the weekend, and everyone says the same thing - “paco” or rather his departure is the problem, he's been a big influence on rafas career success at previous clubs and I think his departure is having an effect on the team and more important rafa's tacktics.

Although we havent been beaten yet, so its not all bad, very good start to the season.


Game at the weekend was bad, crowd was very quiet. (main stand upper). some players came good, esp mascrano and hyypia.

Edit: is gerrard carrying an injury??

mike65

If he is still feeling the effects of the broken bone, then he should be rested properly - Wigan are up next and Sissoko and Masch should good enough for that job.

Mike.

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote:

If he is still feeling the effects of the broken bone, then he should be rested properly - Wigan are up next and Sissoko and Masch should good enough for that job.

Mike.

Depending on how he fairs on Wednesday, Masch and Lucas could also be a good option. From what i've seen, Lucas isnt as wasteful as Sissoko can be - and thats something we really cant afford from Sissoko if he's partnering Masch.

HashSlinging

A good sum up of duties on saturday.


http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_2750041,00.html

event

what do you all make of the booing off at full time?

Melion

event wrote:

what do you all make of the booing off at full time?

Why would the players want to do well for people that boo them off the pitch 6 games into the season? I definitely wouldn't, they all know a draw isnt good enough against birmingham, booing them isnt going to help.

Kanney

A bad result, but booing them off is pathetic. They didn't lose. A mistake was made. Jees get over it.
Not sure about tomorrows game, how it will work. Looks like:Itandje,Sebastian Leto, Lucas Leiva, Emiliano Insua and Jack Hobbs might start.
I'd say Sissoko will get a run out, maybe Voronin aswell, Finnan, Benayoun.

Mr Magnolia

event wrote:

what do you all make of the booing off at full time?

I didn't hear any booing? Was this reported in the written media or did you hear it yourself on the goggle-box?

Lex Luthor

why did Gerrard take his shirt off at half time and throw it at one of the Birmingham players?

~Rebel~

Lex Luthor wrote:

why did Gerrard take his shirt off at half time and throw it at one of the Birmingham players?

I assume one of the brum players asked him for it..i've seen it happen plenty of times, even at half time since these days they usually dry off and put on a new shirt before they come back out. I also think its stupid to swap at halftime and it kind of defeats the whole competitive edge thing. After the match, when its all done and dusted, fair enough if they want to, but during, the other team is the enemy. no sense boosting their morale.

event

Mr Magnolia wrote:

I didn't hear any booing? Was this reported in the written media or did you hear it yourself on the goggle-box?

aye i heard it. Was on the premiership on saturday evening, and me brother (pool fan) was talking about it later, said he heard it too.

no need for it tbh, there never is

Mr Magnolia

event wrote:

aye i heard it. Was on the premiership on saturday evening, and me brother (pool fan) was talking about it later, said he heard it too.

no need for it tbh, there never is

Agree totally. I didn't hear it at all. Maybe missed it chatting to the lads, might have been on my way out at the time. Chose a poor game to go to, still enjoyed it though.

mike65

Sending Rafa a message maybe?

Mike.

raven136

this meassage board is rapidly turning into sky sports with all the abuse directed at rafa's rotation.This issue of kop magazine covers it all very well and i recommend everyone read it.

As Kevin McCarra said recently since when is an unbeaten start to the league and no goals from open play conceded and a draw to pompey a bad result.Birmingham wasnt great but that team was good enough to win and the players not rafa were to blame.Crouch has been dying to get in the team and plays awful when he does.

Guy:Incognito

raven136 wrote:

As Kevin McCarra said recently since when is an unbeaten start to the league and no goals from open play conceded and a draw to pompey a bad result.Birmingham wasnt great but that team was good enough to win and the players not rafa were to blame.Crouch has been dying to get in the team and plays awful when he does.

Realisticly looking at the first 6 games beforehand, Chelsea should havebeen the only stumbling block, Villa at a strecth. e've had a good start, not a great one. Just because its better than other crap starts we've had, doesnt mean its great. We are 4 points off the top aswell.

Malice

Stekelly wrote:

We are 4 points off the top aswell.

We have a game in hand which, if won, would leave us just one point off the top. There's a long way to go in this season yet. Just as we shouldn't have been crowing about landing number 19 after hammering Derby, we shouldn't be too gloomy after the tedium of the last three games.

mike65

Arsenal also have a game in hand don't forget and a game in hand is only 3 points in theory.

Mike.