Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

walshki

Tusky wrote: »

What an absolute mess the club is. Could it actually get any worse ?

1) We have two owners not on speaking terms

2) Owners having meetings with possible replacements for Rafa behind his back

3) Constant negotiations about the sale of the club

4) Heaps of debt on the club

5) One of the owners attempting to fire the CEO

What a joke.

Yeah its actually laughable - its like they're playing some role playing game called 'own an English football club'. Moore's may have thought the was doing the right thing but this was really doomed from the off - these two lads (Hicks more so) are only interested in their own wallets and egos.

When it all died down in March and up to this week it was a big relief - maybe if nothing else, if they just keep quite and let the football be the focus we can find some enjoyment again no matter who the owners are! Then come the summer DIC (or the fans) buy them out - there's a major player and stadium investment and we all begin in August again with a bright future.

walshki

spockety wrote: »

Yes, it absolutely could.

Remember, Hicks & Gillett last time came up with Jurgen Klinsmann as a suitable replacement for Benitez. I still think that is one of the most frightening revelations to have come out since they took over. Losing Rafa and having them find his replacement does not bear thinking about.

Actually - that was just badly misguided - the relevation by Hicks that he would use money from Liverpool to fund his American sports ventures was for me the most frightening thing I've heard since they took over as we would be bled dry and possibly never recover.

Mr Alan

or the "you dont need to win in order for Liverpool to be a success, they have a very loyal fanbase" or some such ****e he spouted.

walshki

I'm just hoping this cloud has a silver lining. Could it now dawn on Hicks that he doesn't have much power and with his ego this could push him out - I think someone else already said that but it could be a real possibility. After all - if Gillette and Parry and Moores are all relatively speaking on one side then any decision that goes through the board will go against Hicks (I believe the board is Gillette plus son, Moores, Parry and Hicks plus son - correct me if I'm wrong). How long will an ego like Hicks leave his money in somewhere where he doesn't have power?

Mr Alan

according to the Echo and TB today, the first refusal aspect (whereby G has to offer H a slice if he is selling) only lasts up until may.

all these developments are giving me a ****ing headache.

prendy

another very annoying thing is the timing of his statement, effectively taking all the publicity away from our win in the CL. He's an absolute muppet and the sooner he's gone the better. The boardroom this season could be taken from a script for dream team. A joke doesnt even come close. :mad:

Stky10

walshki wrote: »

After all - if Gillette and Parry and Moores are all relatively speaking on one side then any decision that goes through the board will go against Hicks (I believe the board is Gillette plus son, Moores, Parry and Hicks plus son - correct me if I'm wrong). How long will an ego like Hicks leave his money in somewhere where he doesn't have power?

Yup thats the case, so in the boardroom Hicks is being outvoted 4-2. This was an attempt to get Parry out so that Ayres could be brought in, thus bringing the boardroom to 3-3, ie complete stalemate.

If DIC can secure Gillettes shares, I think its all over for Hicks and he'll sell up. They can outvote him on the board, and outspend him, and convert any debt to equity in the form of more shares, thus getting a majority shareholding.

whatawaster

Stky10 wrote: »

Yup thats the case, so in the boardroom Hicks is being outvoted 4-2. This was an attempt to get Parry out so that Ayres could be brought in, thus bringing the boardroom to 3-3, ie complete stalemate.

If DIC can secure Gillettes shares, I think its all over for Hicks and he'll sell up. They can outvote him on the board, and outspend him, and convert any debt to equity in the form of more shares, thus getting a majority shareholding.

Debt can't simply be converted to equity. There may be no more authorised capital in the company, and anyway i guarantee there would be strict rules on the issue of any more shares. Certainly wouldn't be decided by a board vote, it's one area where both parties would have to agree.

spockety

It's worth remembering we are dealing with 2 separate companies.

Kop Holdings, and Liverpool Football Club owned by Kop Holdings.

DIC would presumably be buying 50% of Kop Holdings if they 'bought out' George Gillett, not 50% of Liverpool Football Club..??


Rafa on David Bentley today:

Q: David Bentley is a player Liverpool are often linked with – how highly do you rate him?

Rafa: He is a good player. People have asked me about him and I say he is a player with quality but I have a lot of respect for the other team and so don't want to say too much.

That's Bentley in the bag then

p.pete

DIC won't be touching the club while Hicks is there - so bringing DIC in to hopefully get him out isn't ever going to be a scenario.

I predict an angry Rafa not being able to get funds during the summer due to squabling, and I don't want to predict what an angry Rafa will do...

The only plus is that while Gillette seems to have accepted he's not got a long term future with the club he seems likely to stick round at least a little while to block most of Hick's idiocy.

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

or the "you dont need to win in order for Liverpool to be a success, they have a very loyal fanbase" or some such ****e he spouted.

did one of them actually say that?

christ, that sounds bad, as if well it doesnt matter if the club isnt challenging for a few years, the fans will still go and we'll still get out money from tickets and merchandise etc

spockety

p.pete wrote: »

DIC won't be touching the club while Hicks is there - so bringing DIC in to hopefully get him out isn't ever going to be a scenario.

I predict an angry Rafa not being able to get funds during the summer due to squabling, and I don't want to predict what an angry Rafa will do...

The funds for this summers transfers are already in place, they came with the last refinancing package a few months ago. Rafa already knows how much he has to spend and it does not require a further investment.

If Rafa can offload a few players for half decent money (Carson, Riise, Pennant, possibly Crouch), then he is in quite a powerful purchasing position. He could buy another Torres, for example.

Stky10

whatawaster wrote: »

Debt can't simply be converted to equity. There may be no more authorised capital in the company, and anyway i guarantee there would be strict rules on the issue of any more shares. Certainly wouldn't be decided by a board vote, it's one area where both parties would have to agree.

Oh I know, but I don't think they'll get the loans required for the new stadium without putting up a big percentage as security themselves, which I don't see Hicks being willing/able to do. Besides, I think Hicks is smart enough to realise that financially it would be better for him to be a small player in a big pool, than a big player in a small pool, ie better to have 30% of a 800m club than 50% of a 400m club

machiavellianme

spockety wrote: »

The funds for this summers transfers are already in place, they came with the last refinancing package a few months ago. Rafa already knows how much he has to spend and it does not require a further investment.

If Rafa can offload a few players for half decent money (Carson, Riise, Pennant, possibly Crouch), then he is in quite a powerful purchasing position. He could buy another Torres, for example.

Theres another Torres?

spockety

machiavellianme wrote: »

Theres another Torres?

lol.. sorry, I mean another 20m player

StickyMcGinty

machiavellianme wrote: »

Theres another Torres?

aye, he prefers to be called "David Villa"

PHB

The funds for this summers transfers are already in place, they came with the last refinancing package a few months ago.

Assuming the owners keep their words

I think there's no real way of knowing how much that Rafa has to spend, but I would say the fact he is still there, and the fact that Mascherano and Skertle were purchased, suggests he has enough.

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

Rafa on David Bentley today:



That's Bentley in the bag then

50 x fingers crossed smiley.

rosboy

spockety wrote: »

Rafa on David Bentley today:



That's Bentley in the bag then

And we've been strongly linked with Modric today.

And if you'll believe reports Rafinha is in the bag.

If we bought these three, would Rafa have much left to spend on transfers? Can only see him being able to bring in a few young lads (he's already said he has two lined up)

Thanx 4 The Fish

Unbelievably there are players in the liverpool squad that many teams in the premiership would pay good money for. 15-20 mill in sales 0ver 3-4 players would not be bad businness and would give rafa a few quid to spend.

rosboy

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Unbelievably there are players in the liverpool squad that many teams in the premiership would pay good money for.

Goodbye Pennant!
Goodbye Kewell!
Goodbye Rise!
Goodbye Carson!

Hello Villa:p

Thanx 4 The Fish

Would certainly make me happy, we will get nothing for Kewell though.

Kimbot

Pennant gone for 6-8Mill
Carson gone for 5-7Mill
Riise gone for 6 Mill
If crouch doesn't sign then he is gone for 10-15 Mill

Thats average 32 odd Million income. Lets say 20 Mill in the kitty already.

Well Rafinha is rated at 5 Mill.
Bently is somewhere around 10 Mill.
Mordric: No clue as to his value.

Thats 15 out of 52 Mill gone. Leaving 37 More to spend. Maybe a class act like Villa/Joaquin/Silva being brought in aswell as the above.

machiavellianme

rosboy wrote: »

Goodbye Pennant!
Goodbye Kewell!
Goodbye Rise!
Goodbye Carson!

Hello Villa:p

Villa will never take all of those off our hands. Maybe Carson if we're lucky.

rosboy

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Would certainly make me happy, we will get nothing for Kewell though.

Have to disagree with you there...we get an extra 79K in the payroll every week....and room for a nice winger:D

jonny24ie wrote: »

Pennant gone for 6-8Mill
Carson gone for 5-7Mill
Riise gone for 6 Mill
If crouch doesn't sign then he is gone for 10-15 Mill

Thats average 32 odd Million income. Lets say 20 Mill in the kitty already.

Well Rafinha is rated at 5 Mill.
Bently is somewhere around 10 Mill.
Mordric: No clue as to his value.

Thats 15 out of 52 Mill gone. Leaving 37 More to spend. Maybe a class act like Villa/Joaquin/Silva being brought in aswell as the above.

Todays reports put Modric at 18m.

That leaves 19 million to spend. sounds nice!

eZe^

I highly doubt Modric will be 18m. Id say he'll go for about 12 tops.

Tusky

IN:
Modric
Rafinha
Bentley

OUT
Riise
Kewell
Voronin

Would be unlikely but Id be happy with that!

Bounty Hunter

rosboy wrote: »

Goodbye Pennant!
Goodbye Kewell!
Goodbye Rise!
Goodbye Carson!

Hello Villa:p

none of them would be that bad but I hope Villa dont sign a single one of those players.

jonny24ie wrote: »

Pennant gone for 6-8Mill
Carson gone for 5-7Mill
Riise gone for 6 Mill
If crouch doesn't sign then he is gone for 10-15 Mill

Thats average 32 odd Million income. Lets say 20 Mill in the kitty already.

Well Rafinha is rated at 5 Mill.
Bently is somewhere around 10 Mill.
Mordric: No clue as to his value.

Thats 15 out of 52 Mill gone. Leaving 37 More to spend. Maybe a class act like Villa/Joaquin/Silva being brought in aswell as the above.

You have really underpriced the players in and overpriced the liverpool players.

Rafinha would cost around 8/9mil (although prehaps worth 5/6 nobody is sold for true value infact in todays arket close to 10mil would be more appropriate) 5million or even 6million would be a steal.

Bentley again maybe worth 10mil but would not be sold for that amount id say it would take more than 13mil to get him.
and modric will cost someone (lots of competition) 15mil+

so around 35million in total if your lucky and get your targets without being completley raped.

meanwhile Crouch 15million... HAhahahahaha if someone is stupid and they probably will be (hope its not Villa) 12mil would be the most you should get. Meanwhile Pennant, Carson and Riise would get around 6.5mil each

so around 32million in total.

mike65

Bounty Hunter you are clearly fairly clueless about Crouchy and the teams that would like to have his signiture.

Mike.

Bounty Hunter

mike65 wrote: »

Bounty Hunter you are clearly fairly clueless about Crouchy and the teams that would like to have his signiture.

Mike.

well did say people probably will be that stupid but that you should get no more than 12 IMO so not exactley clueless. They shouldent but people will pay for him.

Im still a little anti-crouch due to his time at VP but he is a good player

Jesus Wept

Crouch = Legend, That = All.

Stky10

mike65 wrote: »

Bounty Hunter you are clearly fairly clueless about Crouchy and the teams that would like to have his signiture.

I don't think he is to be honest. He's only got a year on his contract left, so he can buy himself out of his contract for the price of his wages for the remaining year of his contract. So whats that... 3-4m?.

mike65

Ah but he'll sign the new contract and then leave*

Mike.

*Steven Gerrards dad knows someone who can make this happen

el rabitos

The-Rigger wrote: »

Crouch = Legend, That = All.

over-use of the word legend is reserved for the utd thread :pac:

its too easy to say sell all these players, but tbh, selling another lump of players requires another lump of replacement and this isnt exactly conducive to winning silverware, not least the one we want.

besides, given the current climate at the club, getting the major names to the club might prove to be a hard sale.

obviously certain calibre of players are always going to want to join a team like pool, but to compete for the players we need/want we have to compete with the other top dogs, and with the crap going on behind the scenes i just dont see liverpool winning out on the top signings, assuming we could afford them.

Bounty Hunter

mike65 wrote: »

Ah but he'll sign the new contract and then leave*

Mike.

*Steven Gerrards dad knows someone who can make this happen

John Kinsella?

if Crouch does make way, would another striker not need to be signed? or would bentley do the job allowing Kuyt to be backup for Crouch instead of RM

PHB

I think Crouch would get good money, Pennant aswell. Can't see Riise being desperately wanted by many clubs. Carson isn't probably gona be taken by Villa, can't see too high a figure. I'd say Crouch would pull in 10-15, Pennant, 8-12, Riise 3-6, and Carson 4-8.

Also, the idea of getting Rafinha for 5 is just stupid. He'll be at least 8, probably 10+
Bentley won't go for less than 12, and i'd imagine it'd be much higher. Blackburn don't need to sell atm.
Modric is gona be 15+

The transfer fees have inflated, which is why you'll get 8-12 for Pennant, but it also means everything will cost more, especially if you buy English.

mike65

if Crouch does make way, would another striker not need to be signed? or would bentley do the job allowing Kuyt to be backup for Crouch instead of RM

Sadly yes. While it would very tempting not to, promoting Babel to striker (which is what he is really) would be risky if Torres got crooked. Its hard to see Babel leading the line or in partnership with Kuyt or *cough* Voronin.

Mike.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I think Crouch would get good money, Pennant aswell. Can't see Riise being desperately wanted by many clubs. Carson isn't probably gona be taken by Villa, can't see too high a figure. I'd say Crouch would pull in 10-15, Pennant, 8-12, Riise 3-6, and Carson 4-8.

Also, the idea of getting Rafinha for 5 is just stupid. He'll be at least 8, probably 10+
Bentley won't go for less than 12, and i'd imagine it'd be much higher. Blackburn don't need to sell atm.
Modric is gona be 15+

The transfer fees have inflated, which is why you'll get 8-12 for Pennant, but it also means everything will cost more, especially if you buy English.

Even at those prices we would be raking in about 25-41m which should bring in some good players.

spanner_head

PHB wrote: »

I think Crouch would get good money, Pennant aswell. Can't see Riise being desperately wanted by many clubs. Carson isn't probably gona be taken by Villa, can't see too high a figure. I'd say Crouch would pull in 10-15, Pennant, 8-12, Riise 3-6, and Carson 4-8.

I think Liverpool have a history of selling players too cheaply.

I'd agree with the valuations of riise and carson.

Crouch with one year left on his contract would be under 10 mill.

Pennant (not even an English intl) would probably be nearer to 5 mill. We over paid for him when he had one good season with bir'ham.

Bounty Hunter

I always think that with Pool (and utd tbh)... that they never sell for big money because players they sell are unwanted there anymore unlike other clubs who hold clubs to ransom due to their players being in such high demand.

zing

Tomorrows Echo is carrying an interview with Moores where he tells of "his personal devastation at the crisis engulfing Anfield" - this is the fist interview with him that I can remember for a long long time. Should make for interesting reading

Thanx 4 The Fish

Certainly should.

zing

And a wee bit of digging later finds...

I feel shell-shocked damage being doneat all the to the club

Apr 12 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

‘The team is not getting the praiseit should’

A HEARTBROKEN David Moores today called on Liverpool's warring co-owners to sort out their differences for the good of the club – or else stand aside and let someone else take over.

In his first interview since selling the club to Tom Hicks and George Gillett in February 2007, Moores told the ECHO how:

l He was left disgusted by the treatment of chief executive Rick Parry by Tom Hicks

l He believes Hicks and Gillett must either find common ground or walk away

l He feels let down by the “unacceptable” way the club has been run since he relinquished ownership

l He will do everything he can to get the club back on an even keel after so much turmoil.

Moores, who continues to act as honorary life president at Anfield and who maintains a place on the Liverpool board, said: “It's heartbreaking. I'm almost lost for words about the damage that's being done to the club at the present time.

“As a fan, and as someone who loves the club, it is totally unacceptable to see this being played out in the public arena.

“This is most certainly not what the club is about. In fact, I can't ever remember, even going back to when I was a supporter as a kid, stuff being played out in public like we have seen in the last six months.

“It is embarrassing and it is not an acceptable way of doing things.

“I've never known anything like it and I'm just absolutely shell-shocked.”

As far as Moores is concerned, one of the most upsetting things of all is the way the success Liverpool enjoyed on the pitch in beating Arsenal to make it through to the semi-finals of the Champions League has been almost forgotten amidst the off-field turmoil which has erupted since Hicks called on Parry to resign.

“The most heartbreaking thing about all of this is that we were on such a high after the Arsenal game on Tuesday night and then this comes along and completely takes over the great things the players and the manager did,” he said.

“The wonderful success they had that night has been completely diminished, it is completely gone, because of all of this being brought out into the open.

“All I can say is I feel very sorry that it has come to this, that how great it was on the night has been taken over by something which should have been dealt with in a far more delicate way and certainly not in public.

“It certainly doesn't help the team, because they're not getting all the praise they should be getting because of other things are taking priority.

“Everyone should be going on about how well they performed and how brilliant Rafa's tactics were. I mean, for goodness sake, three Champions League semi-finals in just four years is an unbelievable achievement.

“But the gloss has been taken off it and you should never do that.”

When Moores stepped down as owner, he welcomed Hicks and Gillett to the club but has become increasingly concerned at their apparent inability to act as “custodians” as they had promised and also their seeming lack of willingness to put the club ahead of their own personal interests.

And he today called on them to resolve their differences or leave the way clear for someone else to own the club who can provide the unity and stability it needs.

He said: “I didn't know Hicks very well, I knew George a lot better.

“George came across as a bubbly, enthusiastic man who loves his sport and is knowledgeable about it.

“But he didn't have the money to do the deal without bringing someone else on board.

“It was really right at the end that I met Tom Hicks so I didn't really get a chance to get to know him but I took George's word for it.

“It was in total good faith. I believed these fellas, I believed everything they said to me and they said it all again to the fans via the media and you can judge for yourselves whether they kept their promises.

“I am surprised because I thought that the pair of them, from what they said to me and to the fans through the media, that they appreciated the heritage and the values of the club.

“They talked about putting the money in and the new stadium and having no debt on the club. At the time I think we all felt it would be a good deal but it's not all materialised.

“I do feel let down. With everything that's going on, I have to feel let down.

“This is not how I foresaw it and I'm sure it's not how the fans foresaw it.

“If I could have afforded to take the club forward I would have done, but I couldn't. I didn't have the sort of money you need for a new stadium and £30-40m a year for new players.

“So I had no option. I would love to still be in charge but I would have held the club back.

“That's why I am asking these two gentlemen to think of the club, not their own kudos.

“The fans, the manager and the team all deserve better than this.

“We should now be focusing on continuity, stability and working our socks off towards enjoying what will hopefully be a super night in Moscow.

“But when things are played out like they are at present it virtually makes the club a laughing stock and that's not acceptable.

“How can they be acting as custodians when they are split down the middle?”

He added: “It needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. The two owners don't agree on a way forward and unity is essential.

“They have got to stop thinking of themselves and start thinking of the club, its values, its traditions and its heritage.

“They have to do what is best for the club and get it sorted as quickly as possible because what is happening at the moment is not doing it any good.

“I think the damage can be repaired but those two gentlemen have got to come to a quick agreement about the way forward.

“You would have to say if they can't do it then they will have to stand aside and let someone else do it.

“I can't say what these two gentlemen will do. Will they sell? I don't know.”

Having seen Liverpool suffer greatly in recent weeks as the battle between the two owners continues to rage, Moores today committed himself to doing everything in his power to get the club back on an even keel.

“We have got to keep the ship going and I will try my best, and I'm sure Rick will, that we will go on and try to get success at the end of the season, try to get off the politics and concentrate on what's happening on then pitch.

“You look at the fans and as everyone keeps saying they are like a 12th man.

“They were unbelievable again the other night and they deserve better than what's going on at present.

“All I can promise them is that I will do my damnedest to make certain that the club comes through this and we get back to concentrating on what happens on the pitch not off it.

“It is not my club anymore but I will do everything I can and I would like to give a huge vote of thanks to the fans for the wonderful support they have given the manager and the team.

“European nights at Anfield are something you wouldn't see anywhere else. They are unique, unbelievable and the fans make it that way.”

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/04/12/i-feel-shell-shocked-damage-being-doneat-all-the-to-the-club-100252-20754770/

And some more

Moores tells of his ‘distaste’ over letter

Apr 12 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

DAVID Moores today gave his total backing to Rick Parry after co-owner Tom Hicks demanded the resignation of Liverpool's chief executive.

Liverpool's honorary life president hit out at the "distasteful" way in which Hicks informed Parry by post that he wanted him to quit and condemned the move as lacking in respect and decency.

Parry only learned that Hicks was looking to oust him from Anfield when he received text messages informing him that the news had broken on a satellite TV channel.

And Moores today backed Parry – a man whom he rates as one of the best chief executives around. "For me, Rick was a great support in times when I had problems," he said.

"I feel very lucky that during my chairmanship I had two of the best chief executives in Peter Robinson and Rick and I know deep down how much Rick must be hurting even though he's got broad shoulders and he can certainly fight his corner.

"It hurts me because I know of his love for Liverpool Football Club and how he would never do anything to damage the club's name or do anything against the club whatsoever.

"I can only speak highly of him and he certainly deserves better than he was treated on Thursday.

"He was on company business for the Mascherano appeal when he found out.

"He'd had no time to see the correspondence and before he'd even had time to tell his family, they had seen it on television.

"How awful must that have been for him because nobody should be treated like that. Nobody deserves that. There's been a huge lack of respect and it's been very distastefully done."

Moores also believes that the ongoing battle between Liverpool's co-owners has placed Parry in an almost impossible position.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/04/12/moores-tells-of-his-distaste-over-letter-100252-20754772/

Stky10

Thats a pretty strong condemnation from a fellow board member to G+H:eek:

Doubt it will have any effect though on them.

PS.. Probably been on here already but...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tjpkz_CZs8M

mike65

Saw that on Sky Sports, great stuff. Neither of them able to string a sentence together.

Mike.

spockety

Some positive press about Rafa.. it's so rare that it's usually worth posting

TheMirror wrote:

3 games when Wenger myths were exposed

Brian Reade

Arsene Wenger reckoned those three games with Liverpool would produce a moment of truth for his team.

But when the truth was delivered he tried to swat it away with a lie. An embarrassing one at that. Blaming the referee for the 4-2 Anfield defeat was a lamentable diversionary tactic. Wenger failed in Europe once again because his squad wasn't strong enough and his leadership wasn't good enough.

A few myths were shattered in those three meetings about a team whose free-flowing football is hailed as the best in the land. Easy on the eye it undoubtedly is. But you don't win games by adding up the passes and you don't win trophies without a killer's mentality.

In the two games at the Emirates, Arsenal failed to score from open play and at Anfield Pepe Reina was hardly tested outside the two goals. Over the two European ties the Gunners threw away a leading position three times. Each time, very cheaply.

Wenger has clearly needed to dip into his £60million war chest but refused to on the grounds it might upset the balance of a team of kids who were developing together. Another myth. Most aren't kids anymore. The average age of the starting line-up at Anfield was 25.

The Frenchman's real moment of truth will come tomorrow if he fails to beat Manchester United, meaning his trophy haul these past four years comprises one FA Cup. Benitez can match his FA Cup over the same period, throw in a European Cup and possibly add a second one next month. So how come Wenger is perceived in this country as one of the great managers of modern times yet Benitez is consistently derided?

The Spaniard recently masterminded wins home and away against Italian league leaders Inter Milan. Wenger beat their ageing Milan rivals (who lie 20 points behind them) in the San Siro but failed to do so at the Emirates. Yet whose achievement had English football in raptures? Wenger's of course.

The Arsenal boss rested five first-team regulars against Liverpool last Saturday to keep them fresh for Europe. It cost them the points which probably cost him the title but no one said a peep. When Benitez did that earlier in the season he was slaughtered for being a Tinkerman.

Liverpool clawed their way back into Wednesday's game via Sami Hyypia's free header at a corner, yet no one pointed out the deficiencies of Wenger's man-to-man marking system. Whenever Liverpool concede from a set-piece, Benitez is savaged for employing zonal marking.

Maybe it's time Benitez's legion of critics within football (and Anfield) faced their own moment of truth, and admitted he is not in his third Champions League semi-final in four years because he has pact with the devil, but because he is one of the modern game's great coaches, whose only failing in top-flight management has been an inability thus far to deliver the Premier League title to Anfield.

Maybe they should accept he's been up against clubs like Chelsea and United these past four seasons, with far greater resources, and recall it took Alex Ferguson seven years to win his first title.

Maybe, now the blood is drenching the boardroom carpets, they will realise civil war has been raging at Anfield all season, and Benitez has been caught in the middle. His mental health publicly questioned, judgments undermined, spending ridiculed and forward planning sabotaged. They even admitted to actively seeking his replacement.

Yet his reserve side has just walked the northern section of the Premier Reserve League league, he stands on the brink of a Champions League Final and qualification for next season's competition. I'm sure his many critics will dismiss it as a fluke. Just like his two La Liga titles and UEFA Cup wins were at Valencia.

What did Gary Player once say about being lucky. The more he practised the luckier he became. In the biggest club competition in the world Rafa keeps getting plenty of practice.

Maybe one day he'll get lucky, unlike Wenger, and win it. Oh . . he already has.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/04/12/3-games-when-wenger-myths-were-exposed-89520-20380458/

Malice

spockety wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/04/12/3-games-when-wenger-myths-were-exposed-89520-20380458/

That is amazing! A newspaper actually realising that Wengers kids aren't actually kids and giving Rafa some credit at the same time? Wow!

Tusky

I'm off to Liverpool now. Will give my thoughts when I get back. Hears hoping that Rafa puts out a strong team tomorrow*. There will plenty of opportunity to rest players next week.

rosboy

malice_ wrote: »

That is amazing! A newspaper actually realising that Wengers kids aren't actually kids and giving Rafa some credit at the same time? Wow!

I think someone posted a few days ago the average ages of the top four teams. Liverpool's is 26 compared to Aresenals 25.

Here's the ages of some of our biggest players:

Reina - 25
Agger - 23
Skrtel - 23
Gerrard - 27
Torres - 24
Alonso - 26
Babel - 21
Mascherano - 23
Lucas - 21

And players we're strongly linked with:

Modric - 22
Bentley - 23
Rafinha - 22

Not to mention our young lads coming through:

Insua
Plessis
Nemeth
Simon
Bruna
Anderson
Hammill

...Rafa's building something big here. Just hope he's given time to follow it see it through.

mike65

Er Tusky the game is tomorrow.

Mike.