Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

GBX

Its on beeb 1 instead cos of the masters.

Unearthly

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Hmm, MoTD2 doesn't seem to be on tonight?

10:40 according to skys guide

Zapp Brannigan

So it is! cheers lads.

shotamoose

Was very nice to see a 'great Alsonso passes' compilation on MOTD tonight, it's been a while since the last one! If he can get his best form back it'll make a very big difference. We should obviously have had a couple of penos but it doesn't help get proper penalties when players dive, which Gerrard clearly did in the first incident.

mike65

Gerrard should cut the crap and then he'd win more penos! Yep nice comp of Alonso ball stroking.

Mike.

Thanx 4 The Fish

cut the crap, two of those were pens. Granted the first one he stuck a foot out at the keeper but Samba nearly threw him on the ground for one and never touched the ball while kneeing Gerrard for another. Torres should have had one too for that matter.

mike65

The second was outside the box, the third was legit but cos of his earlier dive the ref was not interested, hence my comment. Dont alienate the ref, he can be your friend.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

cut the crap, two of those were pens. Granted the first one he stuck a foot out at the keeper but Samba nearly threw him on the ground for one and never touched the ball while kneeing Gerrard for another. Torres should have had one too for that matter.

The first was an out and out dive, nothing less. The second (Samba) was about 2 or 3 yards outside the box and the third would have been a soft peno, a givable one, but soft nonetheless.

Thanx 4 The Fish

View I got of it Samba threw himself at him from that far out but Gerrard was in the box when he went down, regardless of that though, pen or not it should have at the very least been a free and potentially a red, much like Skrtel could have had a red.

Stky10

More mud to come

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/columnists.html?in_article_id=559466&in_page_id=1951&ito=newsnow

I suppose its a long shot, but there is a chance the interviewer could go through him for a short cut rather than being weak as pi$$

Mr.Nice Guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVb2gbMtN3I

Sums it up tbh.

dc69

see when he dives,most of the time there is contact.I think the fact that they made up a vid that is 1 minute long over a 7 year career says it all.Ronaldo has played for half that and there is 5 minute vids of him diving!

Stky10

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVb2gbMtN3I

Sums it up tbh.

Seeing as most of your posts on boards are on WWE, I would have thought you'd appreciate diving at the slightest touch:rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

Stky10 wrote: »

Seeing as most of your posts on boards are on WWE, I would have thought you'd appreciate diving at the slightest touch:rolleyes:

Not when it's football that I'm watching!

DeadSkin

I know it's all 'ifs & buts, if me aunt had balls' etc, but if you look at our points lost over the season so far;

Man United beat us twice and our other two losses are Reading & West Ham and we drew 12.

Drew all league games with Arsenal & Chelsea. Two huge disappointments for me were the home draws against Birmingham & Wigan, but drawing 8 games outside the Arsenal & Chelsea games is a lot of points dropped.

We are 14 points behind Man United. If we had drawn both games against Man United, that'd be 8 points behind and had we put away Birmingham & Wigan at home it'd be down to 4 points.
As I said it's all 'if's & buts' but I thought it might be worth sharing with a few 'pool heads here.

IrishMike

DeadSkin wrote: »

I know it's all 'ifs & buts, if me aunt had balls' etc, but if you look at our points lost over the season so far;

Man United beat us twice and our other two losses are Reading & West Ham and we drew 12.

Drew all league games with Arsenal & Chelsea. Two huge disappointments for me were the home draws against Birmingham & Wigan, but drawing 8 games outside the Arsenal & Chelsea games is a lot of points dropped.

We are 14 points behind Man United. If we had drawn both games against Man United, that'd be 8 points behind and had we put away Birmingham & Wigan at home it'd be down to 4 points.
As I said it's all 'if's & buts' but I thought it might be worth sharing with a few 'pool heads here.

If United had won every game this season we would be 20 points behind
If torres and gerrard had twin brothers we would have scored 194 goals this season.
If DIC had bought the club Rafa would have 100billion to spend on players.
Pointless argument really.

Malice

DeadSkin wrote: »

I know it's all 'ifs & buts, if me aunt had balls' etc, but if you look at our points lost over the season so far;

Man United beat us twice and our other two losses are Reading & West Ham and we drew 12.

Drew all league games with Arsenal & Chelsea. Two huge disappointments for me were the home draws against Birmingham & Wigan, but drawing 8 games outside the Arsenal & Chelsea games is a lot of points dropped.

We are 14 points behind Man United. If we had drawn both games against Man United, that'd be 8 points behind and had we put away Birmingham & Wigan at home it'd be down to 4 points.
As I said it's all 'if's & buts' but I thought it might be worth sharing with a few 'pool heads here.

That shows just how tight that margin for error is at the top of the table. There were a few games where we were unlucky to draw (Man City away) but many others where we were just rubbish and got more than we deserved (Blackburn away). Wasn't it a similar story the season before last? I can't remember the exact figures and I may even have the wrong season but essentially if we had beaten Chelsea home and away we would have won the title.

BolBill

Its a shame alright. Still theres always the Champions League.....

raven136

how many goals and assists does gerrard have this season,to me he has had his best season in a long time.

IrishMike

10 goals and 13 assists in the premiership this season

Kuyt has 10 assists which i thought was a damn fine return for a converted striker.

gucci

raven136 wrote: »

how many goals and assists does gerrard have this season,to me he has had his best season in a long time.

Dunno how many in all competitions, but in the Fantasy Premier League stats he has 11 Goals and 11 Assists.
Torres 22 Prem goals, 3 assists.

Would be interesting if anyone had a breakdown of how many of Gerards assists set up 'Nando.

IrishMike

http://premiersoccerstats.com/Records.cfm?DOrderby=OPAss&DYearby=2007/8

Assists from open play makes very very interesting reading.

Fabregas 12
Kalou 12
Rooney 12
A Young 11
Petrov 10
Jones 10
Lampard 10
Hleb 10
Kuyt 10
Arteta 9
Anelka 9
Torres 9
Gerrard 8
Berbatov 8
Bentley 8

When you include dead balls Fabregas has 23 assists and ashley young has 21
Mindblowing return.

stick-dan

IrishMike wrote: »

If United had won every game this season we would be 20 points behind
If torres and gerrard had twin brothers we would have scored 194 goals this season.
If DIC had bought the club Rafa would have 100billion to spend on players.
Pointless argument really.

lol

PHB

dc69 wrote: »

see when he dives,most of the time there is contact.I think the fact that they made up a vid that is 1 minute long over a 7 year career says it all.Ronaldo has played for half that and there is 5 minute vids of him diving!

So what you're saying he is better and more clever at diving? I'd agree with that. Reminds me of Ruud as a diver. Ronaldo is a terrible diver, dives too much and hence it doesn't work.

---

And it is a pointless argument. Because while you slipped up and could say that, Chelsea could easily say, if we had Grant from the start we would have won (they probably would have), and if United had gotten Ronaldo and Rooney injuried for the first 3 games, we'd be well ahead.

Or we could go with this one, United drew with Reading, Portsmouth, Arsenal, Spurs, Boro,
Lost to West Ham, Cityx2, Bolton. Of those 9 games we dropped points in, only 3 did we really go up against a decent team, so ....


Things happened for a reason

secman

and If United didnt lose twice to City and lose to West Ham and draw with Middlesborough and Spurs ................... pointless arguement..... Pool did and we did and Chelsea did and Arsenal did drop bad points , buts thats the League for you. Top team always wins at the end, any team with a bit of luck can win a cup.


Secman

DeadSkin

Point taken lads. Still finding it hard to cope with Man Utd doin' the double over us and some of those ridiculous draws we had

spockety

secman wrote: »

any team with a bit of luck can win a cup.

nice dig. :rolleyes:

zing

So they met with Klinsmann twice then - first in New York (which Parry + other directors were at) and later at Hicks gaff in California.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/04/14/jurgen-klinsmann-liverpool-fc-officials-met-him-twice-100252-20761246/

dardoz

Yeh I was reading somewhere else that Rafa is pretty pisses cos he just found out the whole lot of them were meeting Klinnsman, not just Hicks.

I think this is terrible news. If he can't trust any of the boardroom, I don't see him hanging around in the summer.

raven136

Parry has deserved to be sacked for a long time,dreadful guy and the story the he wears a tracksuit to european away games is hilarious
Rafa is the only one who has the clubs best interests at heart and i personally believe he is 3 signings away from a title,but would not be surprised if he walked in the summer.
Does anyone know if there was a meeting last night and if not when will the board meet?

rosboy

raven136 wrote: »

Rafa is the only one who has the clubs best interests at heart and i personally believe he is 3 signings away from a title,but would not be surprised if he walked in the summer.

I agree with you totally. Its a terrible state of affairs. I'm not normally a praying manm but if you're up there, please save us superman!

IrishMike

Rafa will probably give an ultimatium of Parry or me.
He is in as strong a bargining position as he is ever likely to be with the team flying and
a CL semi final coming up so the board will have no choice but to back him.
Thats what im hoping but knowing the idiots at Liverpool they will probably let him walk
and hire Sam Allardyce

Stky10

IrishMike wrote: »

Rafa will probably give an ultimatium of Parry or me.
He is in as strong a bargining position as he is ever likely to be with the team flying and
a CL semi final coming up so the board will have no choice but to back him.
Thats what im hoping but knowing the idiots at Liverpool they will probably let him walk
and hire Sam Allardyce

Personally I don't think it will come to that. I think Parry is a muppet like most people, but he was summoned to the meeting in the US. There is no indication that it was him who initiated the contact with Klinsmann, or had anymore to do it with it.

I reckon Rafa will use the crap going on to ensure he gets a decent transfer budget in the summer. He doesn't need them, his reputation is as strong as it ever was and he'd have plenty of offers if he opted out. They need him though, because if he walks, there'll be blood in the streets.

zing

IrishMike wrote: »

Rafa will probably give an ultimatium of Parry or me.
He is in as strong a bargining position as he is ever likely to be with the team flying and
a CL semi final coming up so the board will have no choice but to back him.
Thats what im hoping but knowing the idiots at Liverpool they will probably let him walk
and hire Sam Allardyce

I honestly hope he doesn't do that. Getting rid of Parry right now is not in the best interests of the club and I'd imagine Rafa knows that only too well.

IrishMike

zing wrote: »

I honestly hope he doesn't do that. Getting rid of Parry right now is not in the best interests of the club and I'd imagine Rafa knows that only too well.

Would you instead prefer another summer of him making a complete balls of
trying to sign new players to the point where we lose the next Torres ?
The man is a disaster and although there are bigger problems at the club
it shouldnt detract from the fact that he is a shambles and needs to go.

zing

I agree he needs to go but just not right now - imo his position on the board is far too important right now. For me resolving the mess that is the club's ownership is far more important than any one season, any one signing, any one existing player or any one staff member be they cook, groundskeeper, team manager, ceo, etc.. I believe Parry has an important role to play in this so if it came to it - yeah I'd be prepared to miss out on the next Torres if it meant the bigger problems were resolved soon. After that the sooner he's gone the better.

Also one would hope that with his position on thin ice as it is that he'll keep his socks pulled firmly up going forward - anyone is such a position would be a fool to do otherwise. But then we are talking about Rick here

Mr Alan

I agree, at the moment, it may be best that Parry hangs around (i actually feel dirty for saying that)

good article from Brian Reade in the Mirror at the weekend. Although it is absolutely ruinned by a typo at the end!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/reade/2008/04/12/3-games-when-wenger-myths-were-exposed-89520-20380458/

Unearthly

It's not really

It's a biased article written by a Liverpool fan trying to ignore the achievements of 1 manager and celebrate the achievements of another just because of the club he supports.

Jesus Wept

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree, at the moment, it may be best that Parry hangs around (i actually feel dirty for saying that)

good article from Brian Reade in the Mirror at the weekend. Although it is absolutely ruinned by a typo at the end!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/reade/2008/04/12/3-games-when-wenger-myths-were-exposed-89520-20380458/

FAIL! Posted in full already, thought you read this thread Mr Alan!

Mr Alan

Shock horror.....Utd fan doesnt like article that points out benitez's positive attributes and super achievements!:eek:

Maybe instead you'd like to point out what he said in the article that is untrue? as opposed to just rubbishing it because of the city the writer is from

Thanks

Mr Alan

The-Rigger wrote: »

FAIL! Posted in full already, thought you read this thread Mr Alan!

ah well! i'm a bit behind, been away most of the weekend, apologies!

Unearthly

Mr Alan wrote: »

Shock horror.....Utd fan doesnt like article that points out benitez's positive attributes and super achievements!:eek:

Maybe instead you'd like to point out what he said in the article that is untrue? as opposed to just rubbishing it because of the city the writer is from

Thanks

Shock horror in you presuming i'm rubbishing Benitez achievements. Fact is I rate Benitez AND Wenger as managers.

The whole article was presented in such a way to ridicule Wenger and his european record(whilst also concentrating on Benitezs terrific record in the CL)

but then when it came to the premiership the excuse was Benitez has only just failed in the premiership, and the teams like Man Utd and Chelsea were too good. Why is it acceptable to be a failure in the prem but not europe?

Karmafaerie

Unearthly wrote: »

It's not really

It's a biased article written by a Liverpool fan trying to ignore the achievements of 1 manager and celebrate the achievements of another just because of the club he supports.

Please.
Enlighten us on how it's biased?
Show me what's not true in that article? (besides the ridiculous typo!:D)

Did Liverpool not beat a Inter, and get non of the praise that Arsenal got for beating a lesser AC?

Has Benitez not been more succesfull than Wenger in the last 4 years already? (Don't forget he finished higher than arsenal in two of those two years too!)

Did Benitez not get constantly derided for his Zonal Marking, untill it worked!

Does Benitez not constantly get derided for rotating when other managers "rest players"! (The whole farce about Nando being rotated sums that up perfectly!)

Has all the turmoil at Anfield been good for Rafa?!


Come on, believe what you want, but there is no biase in that article.

PHB

Did Liverpool not beat a Inter, and get non of the praise that Arsenal got for beating a lesser AC?

Most would see Milan in Europe as a greater test than Inter, just like most would see Liverpool as a greater test than Arsenal, despite their league positions

Has Benitez not been more succesfull than Wenger in the last 4 years already? (Don't forget he finished higher than arsenal in two of those two years too!)

Finishing higher means nothing. Rafa has won the CL in 2005, and both Wenger and Rafa have won the FA Cup on penalties.

Did Benitez not get constantly derided for his Zonal Marking, untill it worked!

To many it still doesn't work, especially against good teams.

Does Benitez not constantly get derided for rotating when other managers "rest players"! (The whole farce about Nando being rotated sums that up perfectly!)

Indeed, the press are stupid here. Rafa rotates as much as Wenger or Fergie. The difference? Rafa is poor at it in comparison.

Has all the turmoil at Anfield been good for Rafa?!

Nope, but your season in the league was over before the whole thing started, indeed your position in the league was why the whole thing started!!

Rafa has done much better in Europe than Wenger has, there is no doubt about that.
But lots of people try to paint this whole picture of Liverpool being better than Arsenal in the league over the last 2 years as some sort of statement that they've been better in the league. They have, but Wenger was building towards something properly, blooding youths etc. Rafa was just bumbling along with average players. That's why Arsenal challenged this year. That's why Liverpool didn't.

That's what the article ignores. And the idea that Wenger's team has been dismissed is hilarious when you consider how bloody close the tie was, that Liverpool were within 4 minutes of going out, and that Arsenal were unlucky with a ref decision.

You want to know how you know the article is biased?

whose only failing in top-flight management has been an inability thus far to deliver the Premier League title to Anfield.

That's a pretty big failing

Maybe they should accept he's been up against clubs like Chelsea and United these past four seasons, with far greater resources

Maybe the writer should remember that Arsenal have spent about 60 million net spend less than Liverpool since Rafa took over. But wait, he ignores that? Odd :rolleyes:

Unearthly

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Please.
Enlighten us on how it's biased?
Show me what's not true in that article? (besides the ridiculous typo!:D)

Did Liverpool not beat a Inter, and get non of the praise that Arsenal got for beating a lesser AC?

Has Benitez not been more succesfull than Wenger in the last 4 years already? (Don't forget he finished higher than arsenal in two of those two years too!)

Did Benitez not get constantly derided for his Zonal Marking, untill it worked!

Does Benitez not constantly get derided for rotating when other managers "rest players"! (The whole farce about Nando being rotated sums that up perfectly!)

Has all the turmoil at Anfield been good for Rafa?!


Come on, believe what you want, but there is no biase in that article.

What a paranoid delluded person you are!

Liverpool got praised for beating Inter. I don't know what paper or media you were listening to(Dunphy perhaps? who i'll admit has a weird problem with Liverpool) but I saw a lot of Benitez continues his remarkable European record etc.

Arsenal got praised also beacuse they beat a team who reached the Champions League final 2 years in last 3 years and reached semi finals the other year(winning 1). No other team boasted that record. They were always a bit underwhelming in Serie A.

Benitez has been more successful than wenger since 2004, but those 3 games don't destroy wenger as a credible manager since he has won the premiership 3 times.

Zonal marking was working like a treat if I remember a while back where you conceded the least amount of goals from set pieces but you have to admit the goals you conceded froms set pieces recently have been awful.

Rotating is only criticsed when the team don't get the results. We all see the Man Utd topic before a game if someone like JOS or Fletcher is starting, the knifes are out for Ferguson ready to criticise if things don't go well, but if they win then all is forgotten. Benitez has rotated in recent weeks to but has produced good results so I haven't heard the rotating argument in a while. Simple as that.

Turmoil hasn't been good for Rafa, but why is he producing results now and not last christmas? Behind the scenes still a shambles so what has changed?

IrishMike

Unearthly wrote: »

It's not really

It's a biased article written by a Liverpool fan trying to ignore the achievements of 1 manager and celebrate the achievements of another just because of the club he supports.

How is it biased Unearthly?
It puts the 2 managers achievements side by side over the past 4 years and compares them.
Over the period Benitez looks a lot better than Wenger.
The fact that Wenger refuses to spend money should not be applauded
like it seems to be everywhere, it should be criticised because it is holding
his team back.
His club are swimming in money and yet the manager refuses to spend it.
Mindblowing when you think of it.
Fergie won the league last year and still went out and spent an absolute
fortune in the summer.
The result being his team retained their advantage even when everyone
around them strengthened too.
Your first 11 wont win you the league, its a squad effort.
Giving young players a chance is to be applauded if they are good enough.
Arsenals young players are good but not good enough to win a league
without help from some seasoned pros.

Unearthly

IrishMike wrote: »

How is it biased Unearthly?
It puts the 2 managers achievements side by side over the past 4 years and compares them.
Over the period Benitez looks a lot better than Wenger.
The fact that Wenger refuses to spend money should not be applauded
like it seems to be everywhere, it should be criticised because it is holding
his team back.
His club are swimming in money and yet the manager refuses to spend it.
Mindblowing when you think of it.
Fergie won the league last year and still went out and spent an absolute
fortune in the summer.
The result being his team retained their advantage even when everyone
around them strengthened too.
Your first 11 wont win you the league, its a squad effort.
Giving young players a chance is to be applauded if they are good enough.
Arsenals young players are good but not good enough to win a league
without help from some seasoned pros.

I don't disagree most of that Mike, it's just I felt the article was very aggressive towards Wenger(especially the title) and very 1 sided in its argument highlighting Wengers flaws and highlighting Benitez's possitives

spockety

PHB wrote: »

Most would see Milan in Europe as a greater test than Inter, just like most would see Liverpool as a greater test than Arsenal, despite their league positions

Lazy lazy excuse, it is horse manure. Inter are recent enough finalists.

Nope, but your season in the league was over before the whole thing started, indeed your position in the league was why the whole thing started!!

Tut tut PHP, Liverpool were still unbeaten in the league before this all kicked off actually.

Cyrus

Unearthly wrote: »

Arsenal got praised also beacuse they beat a team who reached the Champions League final 2 years in last 3 years and reached semi finals the other year(winning 1). No other team boasted that record. They were always a bit underwhelming in Serie A.

well liverpool can now boast a similar record

Unearthly

Cyrus wrote: »

well liverpool can now boast a similar record

but they couldn't last february, which was my point.

and Inter recent finalists? Only if you count the early 70's