Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

DaBreno

redspider wrote:

Question: Who else here on boards.ie now feels that Torres is our no.1 stiker and should be one of the first names down on every team sheet?

I would have to say Yes. We seem to have shelled out £20million on a striker for the CC. why not play him in the league?? He obviously doesnt need the "settling in" period that most foreign players require. This Lad has hit the ground running. He seems up for the physical aspect of the game and has a cart load of ability. Why rest him for the CC?? Play him Rafa, lets win the freakin League.

shotamoose

mike65 wrote:

Thanks for the vid Shotamoose (fred!?)

Heh, no just passing on a link I got on the MaXxed forums, the one-stop-shop for all footy videos. Should have given that fred guy credit - whoever he is, he seems to spend his life producing high quality video caps of LFC games, and more power to his elbow I say.

Tusky

I was furious to see Torres starting in the Carling Cup after being rested on Saturday. I really enjoyed his performance though...one of the most exciting players around.

Reina, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres should be the first names on the teamsheet for every premier league & Champions league game.

yom 1

Tusky wrote:

I was furious to see Torres starting in the Carling Cup after being rested on Saturday. I really enjoyed his performance though...one of the most exciting players around.

Reina, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres should be the first names on the teamsheet for every premier league & Champions league game.

Couldn't have put it any better myself

Mr Alan

Torres wasn't 'rested' on saturday, rafa thought the other two lads would cause more problems for the defense.
I ain't saying i agree with Rafa, but saying Torres was 'rested' for the Carling Cup is just not true.

griffdaddy

That last goal shows just how much confidence Torres has at the moment, made the keeper look like nothing at all. He should be starting EVERY game, even reserve games

The Rooster

The boy Torres done good.

He'll be pushing for a place in the first team shortly.

Mr Alan

The Rooster wrote:

The boy Torres done good.

He'll be pushing for a place in the first team shortly.

ha ha ha

Zapp Brannigan

3 goals, and you think he should be pushing for a starting place!? You sir, know nothing about football! He's got loads to learn still, he needs a nice cup run and maybe some minutes at the end of a premiership game which we've already won.

PHB

So is it just possible that Rafa doesn't really rate Torres as highly as people do, or does he overrate his other strikers?

RE*AC*TOR

PHB wrote:

So is it just possible that Rafa doesn't really rate Torres as highly as people do, or does he overrate his other strikers?

Paper beats rock
Rock beats scissors
Scissors beats paper.

Torres is scissors. Reading are paper. Portsmouth and Brum are rock.

Kuyt and Voronin are also paper.

This is Benitez' reasoning on this one.

Still, I reckon I'd go with a fecking amazing scissors over decent paper any day. Torres is a bit like those scissors on the shopping channels that can cut through metal.

I don't think Rafa underrates Torres, but he's trying to juggle 4 strikers, and obviously use them the way he thinks suits them best.

~Rebel~

Zapp Brannigan wrote:

3 goals, and you think he should be pushing for a starting place!? You sir, know nothing about football! He's got loads to learn still, he needs a nice cup run and maybe some minutes at the end of a premiership game which we've already won.

Woooh, slow down there cowboy, dont get ahead of yourself! I think maybe a loan move to Acrington Stanley would do him the world of good. Build up him nice and slow, maybe next year give him a loan move to Brighton and Hove Albion, then the year after a go in the championship. THEN, and only then do i think we should think about playing him in the PL.

~Rebel~

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Paper beats rock
Rock beats scissors
Scissors beats paper.

Torres is scissors. Reading are paper. Portsmouth and Brum are rock.

Kuyt and Voronin are also paper.

This is Benitez' reasoning on this one.

Still, I reckon I'd go with a fecking amazing scissors over decent paper any day. Torres is a bit like those scissors on the shopping channels that can cut through metal.

I don't think Rafa underrates Torres, but he's trying to juggle 4 strikers, and obviously use them the way he thinks suits them best.

Wow, nice analogy!

In fairness I can see what Rafa was doing, Torres will obviously be 1st choice so its fair enough the others get a go when the time suits, and Brum at home should have been one of the easiest games of the season. It backfired when the other 11 couldn't get the job done.

Given the timing of the brum game it was obviously an especially bad call as we were off teh back of 2 bad results the previous week.

woodyg

me thinks its the over rate of the rest more than the under rate of Torres.
i can see his thinkin in 1 way that he put out a team he felt should have done the job, but and its becoming a huge but! you have to keep with the players in form especialy your main striker! Torres has been simply breath taking so far this season. The man seems to have a bit of everything, Strength, Pace, Touch, Composure, Heart, Skill, Awarness. You name it this kid has got it in spades.
6 goals all ready, 1st hat trick all ready, man the match awards all ready, assists.

I have no problem with Rafa changing around a couple of players, but he has to have the core on the pitch in all league games.

Reina, Carra, Gerrard, Torres. Rotate the rest if needs be but this 4 got to play.

mayordenis

that analogy was amazing, it rocked my world.

PHB

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Paper beats rock
Rock beats scissors
Scissors beats paper.

Torres is scissors. Reading are paper. Portsmouth and Brum are rock.

Kuyt and Voronin are also paper.

This is Benitez' reasoning on this one.

Still, I reckon I'd go with a fecking amazing scissors over decent paper any day. Torres is a bit like those scissors on the shopping channels that can cut through metal.

I don't think Rafa underrates Torres, but he's trying to juggle 4 strikers, and obviously use them the way he thinks suits them best.

I love that analogy.

Mr Alan

That analogy is the best post in this new liverpool thread.

And sums up perfectly why Torres won't play every PL game.

Watever about Portsmouth away (still think a draw is a decent enough result) the rest of the team has to take responsibilty for not beating Birmingham, not Rafa.

Kanney

So happy to see Torres get a hat trick. I think Reading are a decent side and I personally really like them.
The post match interview was hilarious.
Also Leroy Lita attempting a Torres over head kick... Impressive.

sweetie

re*ac*tor = genius

maybe when Rafa goes you should stick your hat in the ring!

yom 1

millersangel wrote:

Torres wasn't 'rested' on saturday, rafa thought the other two lads would cause more problems for the defense.
I ain't saying i agree with Rafa, but saying Torres was 'rested' for the Carling Cup is just not true.

I dont think Tusky was saying he was rested for the Carling Cup but that it annoyed him that he started the Carling cup game, after he was rested on Sat as he didnt start, and I agree with him. Kuyt and Voronin could easily have played last night leaving Torres to rest instead of the other way around.

zAbbo

2114: GOAL Fulham 0-1 Bolton
A great hit by Danny Guthrie from outside the area.

mike65

Good to see, can't beat Utd in the final now!

Mike.

Kanney

Masch, Gerrard, Carra and Torres the four reds name in 442's top 100. They also asked Torres/ Gerrard for their top 5.

Fernando Torres

1. Steven Gerrard
2. Kaka
3. Ronaldinho
4. Wayne Rooney
5. Thierry Henry

Steven Gerrard

1. Kaka
2. Lionel Messi
3. Thierry Henry
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Ronaldinho

Now now, nando, stop kissin ass

MementoMori

Torres is a bit like those scissors on the shopping channels that can cut through metal

Managed to forever link Torres and those mental metal-cutting scissors.

The form he is in Torres should be first choice for all PL and CL games when fit.

Rotate the other three strikers around him.

Forget about Gerrard in the hole - he's a midfielder. Nuff Said

Saw highlights (on Sky News, I think) and it just highlighted the absolute physical hammering Reading handed out.

kinaldo

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Paper beats rock

Pfft. Rock flies right through paper. Nothing beats rock.

dardoz

Kanney wrote:

Masch, Gerrard, Carra and Torres the four reds name in 442's top 100. They also asked Torres/ Gerrard for their top 5.

Fernando Torres

1. Steven Gerrard
2. Kaka
3. Ronaldinho
4. Wayne Rooney
5. Thierry Henry

Steven Gerrard

1. Kaka
2. Lionel Messi
3. Thierry Henry
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Ronaldinho

Now now, nando, stop kissin ass

you got a link for this? or it just in the mag

zing

dardoz wrote:

you got a link for this? or it just in the mag

Was on the clubs site yesterday

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157111070926-1401.htm

Vokes

zabbo wrote:

2114: GOAL Fulham 0-1 Bolton
A great hit by Danny Guthrie from outside the area.

I was at this game. Dull as dishwater but a superb strike by Guthrie. Doesn't look a half-bad player.

Dub13

Any of you lads who are going to the Ronnie Whelan & Jason McAteer gig tonight the kick off is at 8.One or two of you I still have to meet outside with tickets I will PM you my mobile number.

yom 1

I was watching the goals again last night. What struck me was how we finally have a striker of quality proportions. Its been a while in coming but it looks like it has been worth the wait. I kept looking at the third goal especially and couldnt help but think how in recent years not one of our strikers would have been so calm and collected and generally at ease bearing down one on one with the keeper. Baros would have kept running out of the stadium, Morientes wouldnt have been running full stop, Cisse would have hit a pile driver ten foot over the bar instead of trying to round the keeper and of our current strikers Crouchy wouldnt have even been in the position in the first place. Long may his brilliance continue.

Malice

yom 1 wrote:

I kept looking at the third goal especially and couldnt help but think how in recent years not one of our strikers would have been so calm and collected and generally at ease bearing down one on one with the keeper. Baros would have kept running out of the stadium, Morientes wouldnt have been running full stop, Cisse would have hit a pile driver ten foot over the bar instead of trying to round the keeper and of our current strikers Crouchy wouldnt have even been in the position in the first place.

Baros might have stumbled over his own feet before scuffing a shot straight at the keeper but otherwise that's very accurate!

Mr Velo

yom 1 wrote:

I was watching the goals again last night. What struck me was how we finally have a striker of quality proportions. Its been a while in coming but it looks like it has been worth the wait. I kept looking at the third goal especially and couldnt help but think how in recent years not one of our strikers would have been so calm and collected and generally at ease bearing down one on one with the keeper. Baros would have kept running out of the stadium, Morientes wouldnt have been running full stop, Cisse would have hit a pile driver ten foot over the bar instead of trying to round the keeper and of our current strikers Crouchy wouldnt have even been in the position in the first place. Long may his brilliance continue.

Owen would have got as far as the keeper then go down like he was shot with another pulled _____ (insert - hamstring/groin)...

spockety

Paddy_Fowler wrote:

Owen would have got as far as the keeper then go down like he was shot with another pulled _____ (insert - hamstring/groin)...

Ah, unfair. Owen would have scored.

Malice

spockety wrote:

Ah, unfair. Owen would have scored.

Okay, Owen would have scored emphatically before having virtually the same opportunity later in the match. At the second time of asking he would stride confidently into the box before crumpling in a heap with a damaged groin/knee/hamstring/ankle/abdominal etc.

yom 1

malice_ wrote:

Okay, Owen would have scored emphatically before having virtually the same opportunity later in the match. At the second time of asking he would stride confidently into the box before crumpling in a heap with a damaged groin/knee/hamstring/ankle/abdominal etc.

ah now that sounds about fair:D

mike65

Every time Owen comes back I catch myself thinking 'would'nt it be great to have him back next season' then

groin/knee/hamstring/ankle/abdominal etc

crops up and I remember why we should be glad he went when he did.

Mike.

machiavellianme

Rafa's defence of his not playing Torres last week.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7017100.stm

Apparently he's saving him for the last game of the season- maybe to win the League or a Champions League final. He's clearly deluded. We wont be in either if he persists with the likes of Crouch or Kuyt up front. So much for seeing him against Wigan so.

PHB

I think that's a clear sign for Rafa that the league is not his priority. It is one of his priorities, but not the most important thing. He wants Torres for a cup final

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well wouldn't mind too much if it was a CL final along with another couple to go with it while still being guaranteed second spot in the league

I really do think torres will start more games than any of the other strikers, and I reckon he will get to the twenty league goals with games to spare...

mike65

I read that with 'agog' expression. Rafa is doing my head in, would Wenger do the same I ask?

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

machiavellianme wrote:

Rafa's defence of his not playing Torres last week.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7017100.stm

Apparently he's saving him for the last game of the season- maybe to win the League or a Champions League final. He's clearly deluded. We wont be in either if he persists with the likes of Crouch or Kuyt up front. So much for seeing him against Wigan so.

PHB wrote:

I think that's a clear sign for Rafa that the league is not his priority. It is one of his priorities, but not the most important thing. He wants Torres for a cup final

Lads, did ye even read the fookin article because ye obviously missed:

"When you are playing for winning trophies you must analyse everything and say 'OK for the last 10-15 games I need Torres fit'"

"You can play 20, 25 or 30 games in a row. No problem. Everybody can do it. The problem is at the end of the season after 30-40 games."

"The last 10-15 games you are playing for trophies and you must be fresh, ready and fit."

He is basically saying that the squad as a whole should be sufficient to get you so far in any competition and that the likes of Torres, with their extra bit of class, bring you over the edge and win you trophies.

How that is "deluded" is beyond me to be honest.

I am pretty confident that the league is his priority ad that he feels he has the chance of winning it but that he also know that they are more than capable of winnig in the CL and that winning the CL is a very close second (a number 1 priority for some clubs) to winning the PL. While I would like to win the PL, I would happily accept another CL once we at least compete in the league.

Winning the PL at the possible sacrifice of the CL and possible going out early in that competition would nearly be a step back from the club. Whereas doing extrememly well in the CL again and pushing for the PL would be step forward. If things work out right, it is possible that come the end of the season, we could have a genuine chance at both.

Having a very fit and rested Torres than is able to play to his full ability for the last 3 months of the season could be a massive factor in actually winning one or the other or both.

d22ontour

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Winning the PL at the possible sacrifice of the CL and possible going out early in that competition would nearly be a step back from the club.

Nearly i don't think so .To establish themselves as the best team in England is/has always been the priority for Liverpool fans since their demise 10/12/18 years ago .. So many years i have forgotten .

jesus_thats_gre

d22ontour wrote:

Nearly i don't think so .To establish themselves as the best team in England is/has always been the priority for Liverpool fans since their demise 10/12/18 years ago .. So many years i have forgotten .

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't see it as a set back but realistically, we shouldn't sacrifice our recent success in Europe for the PL. I would be extremely disappointed if competing for the league resulted in us going out of the CL in the second round or something. Financially, it would also be a kick in the stones for the club.

I also need my CL fix midweek

Mr Alan

I really do think that Rafa is the man to bring the league back to Anfield. His point is spot on. A season is not just over a few games, we need Torres fresh as possible while still playing the vast majority of games, Birmingham at Anfield should have been a walk over for us, we didnt win because we played ****-simple as, it was nothing to do with rafa team selection.

PHB

Having a very fit and rested Torres than is able to play to his full ability for the last 3 months of the season could be a massive factor in actually winning one or the other or both.

Indeed, but if you've lost the league by then, it doesn't matter does it? If you look at how Fergie and Wenger have rotated in the past, they never do it until they've got a good run going. You pick the easy games and let them rest. Take the Torres thing. Why the **** would you not play him when you could just rest him mid-week? Then he'd have a week off and be ready for Wigan! There is absolutely no reason to do that, unless you actually really want to win the league cup, which he seems to.

machiavellianme

Yes, but why not start Torres, let him go about his business and take him off once we get a goal or two? Its these teams setting up for a draw against us that destroy our League chances. As the game goes on, they get more confident of holding us out till its too late and we've dropped 2 points. I cant see the likes of Birmingham chasing us once we get a lead as it'll just expose their defence more and leave us open to score a few more. We just need someone to get that first goal and Crouch and co. are too unreliable. If Torres can score in the first half, why not sub him at half time and he'll still be fresh as a daisy in April/May much like Fabergas could be for Arsenal (he usually gets subbed about three quarter ways through lately). Besides, now that Brum have gotten a draw against us, the likes of Wigan will try the same as will all the other bottom half teams in the hopes of getting lucky too, we should be going out like we did against Derby and making a spectacle of the lower teams coming to Anfield.

herbieflowers

Maybe the Derby result has been over-lauded, flattering to deceive etc., they were truly truly awful. Yes, Pool put six goals past them but that was one of the most inept performances I've seen from a PL side in a long time...

RE*AC*TOR

The porto game was the nadir for me - and Torres played in that. Liverpool under Benitez have always played long ball to a certain extent, but that was the worst I can remember. In the last couple of games we've started to keep the ball on the ground a bit more, and that's a positive. I still think the Liverpool side that was put out against Birmingham "should" have won. But it didn't, and hopefuly lessons were learned.

Gerrard hasn't been firing on all cyclinders (or anything approaching it) in the last few matches, and recently said he has been having pain from his broken toe. With Xabi also out, our centre midfield is looking a little short on ideas. Now though, Gerrard is saying that the toe is better, so hopefully that another problem solved.

There is also an onus on the rest of the players to prove they are not a one man team. Nothing would please me more than Torres not to start on Saturday, and Liverpool to win 2-0 or something. Then again nothing would please me less than Torres not to start and Liverpool not to score.

herbieflowers

And sometimes you just don't have the luck that can win / lose a match...but as well as that I think Pool can't break teams down well, they're not as penetrative (*shudder*) as other top temas imo...

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

Indeed, but if you've lost the league by then, it doesn't matter does it? If you look at how Fergie and Wenger have rotated in the past, they never do it until they've got a good run going. You pick the easy games and let them rest. Take the Torres thing. Why the **** would you not play him when you could just rest him mid-week? Then he'd have a week off and be ready for Wigan! There is absolutely no reason to do that, unless you actually really want to win the league cup, which he seems to.

i agree Torres should only be rested for wasy games.
Birmingham was an easy game. or at least it should have been.

i don't think we'll have lost the league when the last few months of the season come rolling in, we've had one poor result and one average result (draws with Birmingham and Portsmouth). Far as i know we're 2 points behind Utd with a game in hand and we're still unbeaten, lets not paint it out as if we are in a crisis or anything